Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: The CFM mindset to objections

Expand Messages
  • kenhaining777
    Perry or Lokidad said: [I spend a lot of time thinking about intelligence. I don t think that a lot of brain or mind related conditions should necessarily be
    Message 1 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
      Perry or Lokidad said:

      [I spend a lot of time thinking about intelligence. I don't think that
      a lot of brain or mind related conditions should necessarily be
      defined as illnesses. It depends on the level of severity. I'm
      supposedly schizophrenic. That's what every shrink who's ever assessed
      me has concluded. <shrug> Not that I care. If I do have schizophrenia,
      then maybe that's why I can sit down for 18 hours at a time and
      obsessively work at finishing whatever I'm working on. Anyway, back to
      the obsession. I've been teaching myself watercolor painting lately.]

      This would explain the many different names.  So which one of you can sit down and work for 18 hours at a time, and which one likes to paint in water colors?

      In college I learned that many forms of religions are actually a mild, and usually harmless, psychosis.  People who believe wild tales are actual facts.  People who have an invisible super friend whom they talk to.  People who believe that there are all kinds of invisible entities around them, some good, and some evil.  When you really stop and think about all the people who have said, "God spoke to me," and some of the nutty things that "God told them," then you have to wonder at what point someone would be considered mentally unstable, or mentally ill.

      In other words, one man's mental illness is another man's religion.

      Shalom


       
    • potkonyak
      Nichole wrote: [George, you re not suggesting I further my education are you?? Only uncovered woman do things like that! He he he he he] Nichole, there were
      Message 2 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
        Nichole wrote:
        [George, you're not suggesting I further my education are you?? Only
        uncovered woman do things like that! He he he he he]

        Nichole, there were quite a few women studying law with me who were
        very much covered, yet still studying. They are from a religion (which
        I will not mention by name) where women have to cover their faces.
        Just recently, during the Law College exams, I saw one of them, with
        her face covered, as she bent over to reach into her bag, half her
        naked bum stuck out! I suppose, the commandment tells them to cover
        their faces, not necessarily their bums...;^)

        shalom
        george
      • kenhaining777
        [Nichole, there were quite a few women studying law with me who were very much covered, yet still studying. They are from a religion (which I will not mention
        Message 3 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
          [Nichole, there were quite a few women studying law with me who were
          very much covered, yet still studying. They are from a religion (which
          I will not mention by name) where women have to cover their faces.
          Just recently, during the Law College exams, I saw one of them, with
          her face covered, as she bent over to reach into her bag, half her
          naked bum stuck out! I suppose, the commandment tells them to cover
          their faces, not necessarily their bums...;^)

          shalom
          george]


          If it one of the sects of the religion I am thinking of, then you are now obligated to marry her. 

          By the way, we never call asses bums over here.  Bums are people who won't get a job. 

          Shalom



        • potkonyak
          Ken wrote: [Dyslexia is still defined in the dictionary as a learning disability, but experts on it note that it is not really a disability, and has
          Message 4 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
            Ken wrote:
            [Dyslexia is still defined in the dictionary as a learning disability,
            but experts on it note that it is not really a disability, and has
            advantages... It is very spatial, and I can literally forget which hand
            is my left or right.]

            Thanks a million, Ken! Now I know what happened in my first (or was it
            second...?) marriage. I was always confusing those other women with my
            wife. As a result she accused me of adultery and, for my failure to
            explain to her "scientifically" what I was doing, we ended up in
            divorce. Now I know that I suffered from an extreme (and unusual and
            convenient!) form of "dyslexia". Poor little me...;^)

            shalom
            george
          • potkonyak
            Ken wrote: [If it one of the sects of the religion I am thinking of, then you are now obligated to marry her.] Ken, you mentioned the other day that in the Old
            Message 5 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
              Ken wrote:
              [If it one of the sects of the religion I am thinking of, then you are
              now obligated to marry her.]

              Ken, you mentioned the other day that in the Old Testament days old men
              used to marry many youg women. I suppose it was to compensate for
              their age by summing up the ages of their wives. So, I would need abut
              three of them like this young chick. In fact, she showed a nice pair
              of "cheeks"; it's a pitty that I wasn't looking...8-)

              shalom
              george
            • Nichole
              There is no bum commandment. LOL ... (which
              Message 6 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
                There is no bum commandment. LOL

                > Nichole wrote:
                > [George, you're not suggesting I further my education are you?? Only
                > uncovered woman do things like that! He he he he he]
                >
                > Nichole, there were quite a few women studying law with me who were
                > very much covered, yet still studying. They are from a religion
                (which
                > I will not mention by name) where women have to cover their faces.
                > Just recently, during the Law College exams, I saw one of them, with
                > her face covered, as she bent over to reach into her bag, half her
                > bum stuck out! I suppose, the commandment tells them to cover
                > their faces, not necessarily their bums...;^)
                >
                > shalom
                > george
                >
              • Al-Khwarizmi
                ... Him and him. There s lots of us in here. We are Legion. We are Borg. Interesting what you say about religion as a mild psychosis. I once asked a Jewish
                Message 7 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
                  > So which one of you can sit down and work for 18 hours at a time,
                  > and which one likes to paint in water colors?

                  Him and him. There's lots of us in here. We are Legion. We are Borg.

                  Interesting what you say about religion as a mild psychosis. I once
                  asked a Jewish phychiatrist that if you believe in <insert any of a
                  large number of entities here>, does the existence of the concept of
                  the entity in your mind mean that it is real. I.e. if the thought of
                  it is real, is the entity real?



                  --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777
                  <no_reply@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Perry or Lokidad said:
                  >
                  > [I spend a lot of time thinking about intelligence. I don't think that
                  > a lot of brain or mind related conditions should necessarily be
                  > defined as illnesses. It depends on the level of severity. I'm
                  > supposedly schizophrenic. That's what every shrink who's ever assessed
                  > me has concluded. <shrug> Not that I care. If I do have schizophrenia,
                  > then maybe that's why I can sit down for 18 hours at a time and
                  > obsessively work at finishing whatever I'm working on. Anyway, back to
                  > the obsession. I've been teaching myself watercolor painting lately.]
                  >
                  > This would explain the many different names. So which one of you can
                  > sit down and work for 18 hours at a time, and which one likes to paint
                  > in water colors?
                  >
                  > In college I learned that many forms of religions are actually a mild,
                  > and usually harmless, psychosis. People who believe wild tales are
                  > actual facts. People who have an invisible super friend whom they talk
                  > to. People who believe that there are all kinds of invisible entities
                  > around them, some good, and some evil. When you really stop and think
                  > about all the people who have said, "God spoke to me," and some of the
                  > nutty things that "God told them," then you have to wonder at what point
                  > someone would be considered mentally unstable, or mentally ill.
                  >
                  > In other words, one man's mental illness is another man's religion.
                  >
                  > Shalom
                  >
                • udunnojac
                  When I was a kid we lived near the railroad track. I remember seeing these guys who lived down there by the tracks in a hobo camp. We d see these guys in town
                  Message 8 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
                    When I was a kid we lived near the railroad track. I remember seeing
                    these guys who lived down there by the tracks in a hobo camp. We'd see
                    these guys in town sometimes and my folks always told me to stay away
                    from those 'bums' - That's what they called hobos who came into town
                    trying to get some temporary employment ("Mr, I'll paint your fence for
                    $10," or "You've got a lot of fruit that needs picking. I'll pick it
                    all if I can stay in your shed for a couple nights," etc.) which
                    usually meant they were trying to find other shelter and maybe enough $
                    to buy a pint.

                    I remember seeing them all living under this cut bank down by the
                    tracks in the summer time - They'd build campfires out there and cook
                    whatever they could scrounge up and then pass that bottle around then
                    roll their own cigarettes. In the winter time they'd be in their all
                    huddled around a barrel they'd rolled in there that they burned trash
                    in to stay warm. If it rained that cut bank would flood and they'd have
                    to scarmble to gather their meager belongings and go elsewhere to seek
                    shelter. I saw 'em riding flatcars all lined up like birds on a wire.
                    Sometimes we'd see the doors open on a box car moving along the track
                    and sometimes there'd be 20 or 30 of em jump out. This was my
                    introduction to the homeless problem in our quiet little town that was
                    soon to swell up and push these guys out.

                    Some people called them stew bums, though I don't exactly know why
                    the 'stew' part was added. I know they managed to scarf up usable
                    vegetables and fruit from the cannery down the tracks. They were just
                    poor hobos who rode those rails hoping to get by from day to day. In
                    the spring they'd all head up north to Fresno or Bakersfield to work in
                    the peaches or pecans for the summer.

                    I remember when I was young I walked on the railroad track one day and
                    realized I was walking up on their camp. I was just a kid but back in
                    those days things weren't as dangerous as they are now. I wouldn't do
                    that now as an adult. One time one of them knocked on our door and
                    asked for a glass of water. I believe my mom gave him a sandwich too
                    which he offered to do some work for but she sent him on his way and
                    told him he didn't owe us anything.

                    Funny thing is one of these stewbums blew in from Oklahoma in the 40's.
                    He managed to find gainful employment at a nearby potato farm. He
                    managed to get an unproductive acre of land from that farmer. The next
                    season he managed to get an acre from the adjoining acreage owned by a
                    rival farmer. He began to farm this little two acre parcel trading work
                    for water and food and a place to stay. In no time at all he had a
                    bunch of the other stew bums working for him! Eventually the first
                    farmer had a daughter who caught his eye and the guy began secretly
                    courting her. A third farmer decided to go in halves with him on a cash
                    crop that failed. The farmer felt bad about the deal and gave the old
                    boy another couple of acres and allowed him to use his water.

                    By the end of WWII the old stewbum was turning into a regular farmer
                    with his 4 acres and on his way to acquiring more with a crew of
                    stewbums to help farm it with him and three farmers who owned land
                    closeby that one by one began to go into partnerships with him.

                    By 1950 the old boy had himself a thriving 20 acres he was planting
                    with potatoes and onions and was by then making himself a fair amount
                    come harvest time. He bought a small house on another parcel of land
                    nearby and married the first farmers daughter. (No this isn't one of
                    those jokes!)

                    In the next decade he ended up going into business with all three of
                    these farmers and what land he didn't wrangle them out of he bought
                    outright until he had completely bought out 3 of the biggest operations
                    in the area. He bought up land like it was going out of style until he
                    became one of California's biggest farm property owners owned by a
                    single individual and not part of a corporate entity.

                    By the end of the 60's he'd formed a corporation made up of himself,
                    his wife and their sons. In time he bought land in Kern and Fresno
                    counties as well as mining interests in Minnesota, Utah, AZ and NV.
                    This old stewbum got off that train and became a self-made man with a
                    family corporation worth close to a billion dollars by the time he died
                    in the 90's.

                    Just goes to show - you never know who might crawl out of a lifestyle
                    if the right opportunities arise. That old farmer he first worked for
                    tried to keep him away from his daughter and vice versa but instead of
                    sending him back out on the rails he invested in the life of a neer do
                    well Oklahoma hobo and along the way he helped pave the way for his
                    grandchildren to seize their destiny.

                    For the record I don't recall that the Fellowship ever went to witness
                    to the men in that hobo camp, which was still there by the early 80's
                    but in a much smaller version that when I was a kid. I doubt that Mitch
                    would have seen much future in a guy like our land grabbing, tater and
                    onion planting, farmer's daughter chasing entrepeneur.

                    I remember seeing this guy around town with his wife. They were just a
                    common everyday couple and acted down to earth, which is where they
                    came from. They might have been sporting a late model Cadillac but they
                    were still just a couple of Okies who lived off the land - literally!












                    --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, kenhaining777
                    <no_reply@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > By the way, we never call asses bums over here. Bums are people who
                    > won't get a job.
                    >
                    > Shalom
                    >
                  • kenhaining777
                    [Thanks a million, Ken! Now I know what happened in my first (or was it second...?) marriage. I was always confusing those other women with my wife. As a
                    Message 9 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008


                      [Thanks a million, Ken! Now I know what happened in my first (or was it
                      second...?) marriage. I was always confusing those other women with my
                      wife. As a result she accused me of adultery and, for my failure to
                      explain to her "scientifically" what I was doing, we ended up in
                      divorce. Now I know that I suffered from an extreme (and unusual and
                      convenient!) form of "dyslexia". Poor little me...;^)

                      shalom
                      george]

                      How many marriages have you had?  I know you said you had another daughter who was enstranged from you during your fellowship years. 

                      For those of you who are concerned, please note that George is describing himself as he was before he became a believer. 

                      Shalom

                       

                       

                       


                    • kenhaining777
                      Perry said: [Interesting what you say about religion as a mild psychosis. I once asked a Jewish phychiatrist that if you believe in
                      Message 10 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
                        Perry said:

                        [Interesting what you say about religion as a mild psychosis. I once
                        asked a Jewish phychiatrist that if you believe in <insert any of a
                        large number of entities here>, does the existence of the concept of
                        the entity in your mind mean that it is real. I.e. if the thought of
                        it is real, is the entity real?]

                        I think, therefore I am.  I think something exists, therefore it is?  Interesting concept.  The age old question of what is real and what is illusion, or even deception.  I believed a lot of things were true that I found out were false.  What is interesting to me is when a lot of people believe in an entity and they reinforce each other's belief in that entity.  It gives the belief another dimension. 

                        I wonder who first came up with the concept of an unseen entity, or God?  Did someone one day say to someone else, "I have discovered that there is this invisible God who is all powerful," and then they convinced the other person?  Is that how religion was born? 

                        So much to ponder, so little time.

                        Shalom



                      • potkonyak
                        Perry wrote: [Interesting what you say about religion as a mild psychosis. I once asked a Jewish phychiatrist that if you believe in
                        Message 11 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
                          Perry wrote:
                          [Interesting what you say about religion as a mild psychosis. I once
                          asked a Jewish phychiatrist that if you believe in <insert any of a
                          large number of entities here>, does the existence of the concept of
                          the entity in your mind mean that it is real. I.e. if the thought of it
                          is real, is the entity real?]

                          And the answer was....?

                          I have a problem with the "psychosis" and religion (belief) link. If
                          indeed it is a psychotic state, how come, for instance, Ken and Perry,
                          got out of it without a treatment. In fact, as far as I know, if a
                          psychotic condition is not treated it becomes worse. Are we then to
                          conclude that Ken and Perry have gone from bad to worse? I doubt it.
                          Or we have to dismiss the psychological and psychiatric profession as a
                          sham relying on the placibo effect.

                          shalom
                          george
                        • potkonyak
                          Ken wrote: [How many marriages have you had?] My memory is failing me lately... and I haven t introduced to you all my children as yet...;^) Ken wrote: [For
                          Message 12 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
                            Ken wrote:
                            [How many marriages have you had?]
                            My memory is failing me lately... and I haven't introduced to you all
                            my children as yet...;^)

                            Ken wrote:
                            [For those of you who are concerned, please note that George is
                            describing himself as he was before he became a believer.]

                            Good old days! I remember when I "got saved" how ridiculously stupid I
                            became... Oh, shit!!!! I better shut up... I just wish that the
                            proverb "history repeats itself" comes true...;^)

                            shalom
                            george
                          • kenhaining777
                            [I have a problem with the psychosis and religion (belief) link. If indeed it is a psychotic state, how come, for instance, Ken and Perry, got out of it
                            Message 13 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
                              [I have a problem with the "psychosis" and religion (belief) link. If
                              indeed it is a psychotic state, how come, for instance, Ken and Perry,
                              got out of it without a treatment. In fact, as far as I know, if a
                              psychotic condition is not treated it becomes worse. Are we then to
                              conclude that Ken and Perry have gone from bad to worse? I doubt it.
                              Or we have to dismiss the psychological and psychiatric profession as a
                              sham relying on the placibo effect.

                              shalom
                              george]

                              If we got over it, then it would have been a neurosis, rather than a psychosis.  That is, it would have been temporary, vs permanent.  Or, it may find another expression in a different belief in invisble entities, etc. 

                              Only behaviorism is scientifically provable in the field of psychology.  One study showed those who are most likely to recover from emotional or mental crisis are those who have three to five close friends.  Friends who are willing to sit and listen.  One theory is that a therapist is a paid friend, and is used by those who don't have friends who are dedicated enough to help them through an emotional or mental crisis.  We are talking about factors that can make the difference between someone committing suicide or not, for example.  That is why most health insurance now covers therapy. 

                              No doubt there are some placebo effects many times in therapy.  If you believe that talking with a therapist will help you, that belief alone could produce a positive effect.   Just thinking that this person knows what they are talking about can also facilitate recovery.  So, you never know.  If someone comes out of therapy feeling better, and is now better able to cope with life, then I suppose it is worth it in any event.  I have think the vast majority of trained therapists could easily see through Wayman's World.  That is why the fellowship mocks things like therapy. 

                              Shalom


                            • Denis Dearborn
                              Strange you bring that up George as there is a quick explanation for the bare bum . At least in Afghanistan in the non modern cities where plumbing is not
                              Message 14 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008

                                Strange you bring that up George as there is a quick explanation for the "bare bum". At least in Afghanistan in the non modern cities where plumbing is not normal one would pull over behind an old burnt up car and assume the hoarse riding stance to make a deposit. However in your case maybe it was all for you:) I wouldn't  offer her a pork chop sandwich

                                right off the bat but some of them do happen to prefer Alla lecca El salami if you know what I mean :)

                                --- On Tue, 7/1/08, kenhaining777 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                From: kenhaining777 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                                Subject: [Escape_from_the_Fellowship] Re: The CFM mindset to objections
                                To: Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 9:27 AM

                                [Nichole, there were quite a few women studying law with me who were
                                very much covered, yet still studying. They are from a religion (which
                                I will not mention by name) where women have to cover their faces.
                                Just recently, during the Law College exams, I saw one of them, with
                                her face covered, as she bent over to reach into her bag, half her
                                naked bum stuck out! I suppose, the commandment tells them to cover
                                their faces, not necessarily their bums...;^)

                                shalom
                                george]


                                If it one of the sects of the religion I am thinking of, then you are now obligated to marry her. 

                                By the way, we never call asses bums over here.  Bums are people who won't get a job. 

                                Shalom




                              • Al-Khwarizmi
                                ... Take a pill. Not much else psychiatrists can say, really. They do have training in psychology, but they re medical doctors, not psychologists. I disagree
                                Message 15 of 30 , Jul 1, 2008
                                  > And the answer was....?

                                  Take a pill.

                                  Not much else psychiatrists can say, really. They do have training in
                                  psychology, but they're medical doctors, not psychologists.

                                  I disagree with your idea that untreated psychosis gets worse. Why
                                  should it? Are you saying that psychosis is a form of degenerative
                                  disease. In the case of illnesses like Alzheimer's it is, but then
                                  I've seen published studies that suggest keeping one's mind active can
                                  almost negate the effects of Alzheimer's.

                                  And who is to say that a mild psychosis is necessarily bad for you? It
                                  may be that Ken and I have, through strength of will, managed to
                                  neural activity in our brains. I doubt it, though. Having religious
                                  ideas doesn't make anyone dumber or less creative.



                                  --- In Escape_from_the_Fellowship@yahoogroups.com, potkonyak
                                  <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Perry wrote:
                                  > [Interesting what you say about religion as a mild psychosis. I once
                                  > asked a Jewish phychiatrist that if you believe in <insert any of a
                                  > large number of entities here>, does the existence of the concept of
                                  > the entity in your mind mean that it is real. I.e. if the thought of it
                                  > is real, is the entity real?]
                                  >
                                  > And the answer was....?
                                  >
                                  > I have a problem with the "psychosis" and religion (belief) link. If
                                  > indeed it is a psychotic state, how come, for instance, Ken and Perry,
                                  > got out of it without a treatment. In fact, as far as I know, if a
                                  > psychotic condition is not treated it becomes worse. Are we then to
                                  > conclude that Ken and Perry have gone from bad to worse? I doubt it.
                                  > Or we have to dismiss the psychological and psychiatric profession as a
                                  > sham relying on the placibo effect.
                                  >
                                  > shalom
                                  > george
                                  >
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.