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Re: The Fear of Backsliding

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  • potkonyak
    The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, Write all the words which I have spoken to you in a book. For
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 1, 2008
      The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, "Thus says the
      LORD, the God of Israel, 'Write all the words which I have spoken to
      you in a book. 'For behold, days are coming,' declares the
      LORD, 'when I will restore the fortunes of My people Israel and
      Judah ' The LORD says, 'I will also bring them back to the land that
      I gave to their forefathers and they shall possess it.'"
      Here the LORD directly tells Jeremiah to write a book. This is the
      whole idea behind the Bible. God is behind it. He inspired people
      to write it, and here He "inspires" Jeremiah with a direct command.

      K(ar)en wrote:
      [Here the LORD directly tells Jeremiah to write a book. This is the
      whole idea behind the Bible. God is behind it. He inspired people
      to write it, and here He "inspires" Jeremiah with a direct command.]

      The above is an assumption that is not warranted. The (false)
      assumption is that God "inspired people" to write a book. That
      assumption is extrapolated, without justification, from what God
      spoke to Jeremiah. Read Jeremiah again. He says (EMPHASES
      mine): "Write all the words WHICH I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU in a book."
      This means ONLY that what Jeremiah wrote on that occasion was what
      God wanted him to write. It does not mean that ALL whatever has been
      placed between the covers of what we know as the bible is the word of
      God.

      I don't have a problem with the bible being "inspiring". It may be
      inspiring to some people at some times but not necessarily to all
      people at all times. However, the claims that it is "inspired and
      inerrant word of God" is an insult to God. There are obvious and
      glaring errors, a primary school kid can see them.

      The argument that "God was surely able to preserve His word" is a
      lame argument. If indeed He wanted to preserve ALL that was written
      there, He was also able to cause those who translated the original
      writings to translate them correctly and, more importantly, those who
      are INTERPETING what is written there, to interpret it correctly, or
      at least, that they agree with each other. But hat is no the case.
      What!? God was not able to do that?

      On the other hand, if we say that He does not want to interfere with
      those who are interpreting the bible any odd way, then why He was
      willing to intervene when the dudes were deciding what to include in
      the bible or, later on, what to toss out of it?

      A lame doctrine.

      P.S. I'll be off for two days of exams then a night of celebrations
      for my two sons' birthdays (one is 20, on is 16) and then for another
      two days of court preparation and then one more day in court and
      then... I will take the whole weekend and just RELAX....

      shalom
      george
    • kenhaining777
      George said: [A lame doctrine.] George said this in regards to the LORD preserving the Scriptures, but the LORD not preventing false interpretation. The
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 1, 2008

        George said:

        [A lame doctrine.]

        George said this in regards to the LORD preserving the Scriptures, but the LORD not preventing false interpretation.  The interesting factor here is that the Bible warns of false prophets, christs, pastors, and teachers.  So, the twisting of the Bible by these people is something the Bible predicted.  This being the case, anyone who has access to the Bible is ultimately without excuse for following false teachers of the Word of God. 

        Again, the Bible is the testimony, or record, that God caused to be written.  It even records false prophesies.

        1 Kings 22:10-12

        Now the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat king of Judah were sitting each on his throne, arrayed in their robes, at the threshing floor at the entrance of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets were prophesying before them. Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made horns of iron for himself and said, "Thus says the LORD, 'With these you will gore the Arameans until they are consumed.'" All the prophets were prophesying thus, saying, "Go up to Ramoth-gilead and prosper, for the LORD will give it into the hand of the king."

        It is later revealed by the prophet Micaiah that the LORD sent a lying spirit to cause Ahab's prophets to prophesy falsely, so that the LORD could cause Ahab to die in battle.  The false prophesy of Chenaanah is recorded in the Bible, and even has the "thus says the LORD" preface.  What Chenaanah prophesied was not the inspired Word of God, but the LORD inspired the writer of 1 Kings 22 to record the event, and the false prophesy of Chenaanah.  As the Apostle Paul wrote, the believer can benefit by studying what God inspired to be written in the books of the Bible.

        Another example of the Bible recording false prophesy is found in the Book of Jeremiah.

        Jeremiah 28:10-17

        Then Hananiah the prophet took the yoke from the neck of Jeremiah the prophet and broke it. Hananiah spoke in the presence of all the people, saying, "Thus says the LORD, 'Even so will I break within two full years the yoke of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon from the neck of all the nations.'" Then the prophet Jeremiah went his way. The word of the LORD came to Jeremiah after Hananiah the prophet had broken the yoke from off the neck of the prophet Jeremiah, saying, "Go and speak to Hananiah, saying, 'Thus says the LORD, "You have broken the yokes of wood, but you have made instead of them yokes of iron." 'For thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, "I have put a yoke of iron on the neck of all these nations, that they may serve Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon; and they will serve him And I have also given him the beasts of the field."'" Then Jeremiah the prophet said to Hananiah the prophet, "Listen now, Hananiah, the LORD has not sent you, and you have made this people trust in a lie. Therefore thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I am about to remove you from the face of the earth This year you are going to die, because you have counseled rebellion against the LORD.'" So Hananiah the prophet died in the same year in the seventh month.

        So, the Bible clearly shows there will be false prophets, teachers, pastors, and the like.  The fact that these people exist simply confirms what the Bible says, and does not, as you suppose, George, discredit the idea that the Bible was inspired by God as a testimony and a record. 

        The fellowship literally taught us not to obey the Bible.  When you did your own Bible study on tithing, George, it immediately brought you into conflict with the leadership.  This should be an indication to you that the LORD had this testimony and record written, by His inspiration, so that if anyone were to really read it, then they would be set free from false teachers, pastors, and the rest of those who don't teach what the Bible actually says. 

        By the way George, do you believe the Psalms were written by the inspiration of God?

        Shalom to you, George

         

         

         


         


         

      • potkonyak
        K(ar)en wrote: [Again, the Bible is the testimony, or record, that God caused to be written. It even records false prophesies.... etc...] This is a far cry
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 2, 2008
          K(ar)en wrote:
          [Again, the Bible is the testimony, or record, that God caused to be
          written. It even records false prophesies.... etc...]

          This is a far cry from "the whole bible is the inspired, true and
          inerrant word of God".

          There is not much point in arguing whether what is written there was
          by the "inspiration" of God, that is, by His urging to write what has
          been written. We cannot prove it one way or the other.

          As for the bible being right about predicting the advent of the false
          prophets, it does not need to point its finger at some false prophets
          in the present day or any of those specifically mentioned in the Old
          Testament. There is one right there in the New Testament who wrote
          the whole gospel. His name is Matthew.

          If God indeed "inspired" Matthew in writing what he wrote about the
          Isaiah's prophecy of virgin birth, then God should have inspired
          someone else to write and say that Matthew is a false prophet.
          That's what God did in the Old Testament concerning some of the false
          prophets. Somehow, God left it to me to write it down (about
          Matthew's false prophecy). Shall we then include what I wrote into
          the bible?...;^)

          shalom
          george
        • potkonyak
          Ken wrote: [By the way George, do you believe the Psalms were written by the inspiration of God?] If we give to the word inspiration the soft meaning (as in
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 2, 2008
            Ken wrote:
            [By the way George, do you believe the Psalms were written by the
            inspiration of God?]

            If we give to the word "inspiration" the soft meaning (as in the last
            post), we can definitely claim that God "inspired" writer(s) of the
            Psalms. However, I believe that, even though the Psalms were mostly
            written for the purpose of worship in the Temple, some of what was
            written there was an outright revelation from God, even though not
            described as such. I just turned at random to the book of Psalms and
            saw this:

            Psalm 104
            [1] Bless Jehovah, O my soul. O Jehovah my God, thou art very great;
            Thou art clothed with honor and majesty: [2] Who coverest thyself
            with light as with a garment; Who stretchest out the heavens like a
            curtain; [3] Who layeth the beams of his chambers in the waters; Who
            maketh the clouds his chariot; Who walketh upon the wings of the
            wind; [4] Who maketh winds his messengers; Flames of fire his
            ministers; [5] Who laid the foundations of the earth, That it should
            not be moved for ever. [6] Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a
            vesture; The waters stood above the mountains. [7] At thy rebuke they
            fled; At the voice of thy thunder they hasted away [8] (The mountains
            rose, the valleys sank down) Unto the place which thou hadst founded
            for them. [9] Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; That
            they turn not again to cover the earth.

            It is strangely similar to what Moses wrote in the book of Genesis,
            namely, that God separated the waters that were above the firmament
            from the waters that were below the firmament and gather those under
            the firmament into defined places (seas).

            It is possible that David wrote under the influence of what he read
            in the book of Genesis, however I tend to believe that the revelation
            was in fact given to David by God. That is, David was "inspired" (in
            the much stronger meaning of the word "inspiration"). There are
            number of other revelations in Psalms which go far beyond just words
            of praise.

            Enough of my singing for tonight - back to the hard prose: the law...

            shalom
            george
          • kenhaining777
            [If God indeed inspired Matthew in writing what he wrote about the Isaiah s prophecy of virgin birth, then God should have inspired someone else to write and
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 2, 2008

              [If God indeed "inspired" Matthew in writing what he wrote about the
              Isaiah's prophecy of virgin birth, then God should have inspired
              someone else to write and say that Matthew is a false prophet.
              That's what God did in the Old Testament concerning some of the false
              prophets. Somehow, God left it to me to write it down (about
              Matthew's false prophecy). Shall we then include what I wrote into
              the bible?...;^)

              shalom
              george]

              I'll get back to you on this, George.  It is going to take some work to fully cover it.

              Shalom

              Kenny & Karen, or Karen and Kenny, whichever you prefer.

               

               


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