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Re: [EndeweardeTailor] Opinions?

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  • Margaret Rochester
    I have not used stuff from either of those pattern companies.  Take a look at the instructions.  Are they clear?  Take a look at the pattern pieces.  Were
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 5, 2010
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      I have not used stuff from either of those pattern companies.  Take a look at the instructions.  Are they clear?  Take a look at the pattern pieces.  Were they designed with your body proportions in mind?  Some patterns out there seem to be designed without any regard to the human shape!  For your body type, I'd first gravitate toward the first pattern.
       
      I suspect nearly half  of the women in the SCA harbor a secret desire for the dress from that picture.   So, why are you going to make a new dress?  Do you want to explore the historical aspects of the SCA?  Do you want to explore the fantasy/dream aspects of the SCA?  Do you just not want to be nekkid?  I don't think there are really right and wrong answers.  Just be sure the dress fits with your mindset at the moment.  Not all dresses need to fit any one category.
       
      Margaret

      --- On Fri, 2/5/10, Marjorie <jorie6568@...> wrote:

      From: Marjorie <jorie6568@...>
      Subject: [EndeweardeTailor] Opinions?
      To: EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 8:16 AM

       
      I am going to make a bliaut. I have a pattern that I bought quite awhile ago--before I had really done any research. It is this: http://www.wingeo. com/patterns/ 100series/ patrn103. jpg
      It has "princess seaming" which, of course is not period. Should I make it anyway?

      I also have this: http://www.lostcoas thistpatterns. com/woofmeropefo .html
      Should I use that instead?

      Of course what I really wanted was the dress in this painting.

      http://images. google.com/ imgres?imgurl= http://upload. wikimedia. org/wikipedia/ commons/thumb/ 9/9a/Edmund_ blair_leighton_ accolade. jpg/150px- Edmund_blair_ leighton_ accolade. jpg&imgrefurl= http://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/ Bliaut&usg= __itIsOLqHPqPAZ9 iEd0XeLjGFDCs= &h=214&w= 150&sz=13& hl=en&start= 106&um=1& itbs=1&tbnid= LI3whpvhnRTb_ M:&tbnh=106& tbnw=74&prev= /images%3Fq% 3Dbliaut% 26ndsp%3D20% 26hl%3Den% 26rlz%3D1C1CHOF_ enUS354US354% 26sa%3DN% 26start%3D100% 26um%3D1

      But alas, from all that I know, it is NOT period... So what does everyone think?


    • Marjorie Adams
      I have used the second pattern and its equivalent for men and children.  Very easy.  Seems accurate.  Construction makes sense for what I know about how
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 5, 2010
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        I have used the second pattern and its equivalent for men and children.  Very easy.  Seems accurate.  Construction makes sense for what I know about how they (probably) did things historically.  Even the small is WAY too big for me.  Alysha has been wearing that garb.  But I can easily adjust that.

        The other pattern seems easily do-able--at least I am sure I can figure it out.  Just trying to decide if I really want the non-period "princess" seaming.  Who will notice?  Who will care?  Does it matter?  Not really I guess.

        I don't need garb right now.  I just wanted to make something with this red linen.  And I have been thinking about a more accurate version of that particular dress in the painting.  :)  Plus I was looking to make something 12th century-ish

         

        --- On Fri, 2/5/10, Margaret Rochester <kenduskeagstream@...> wrote:

        From: Margaret Rochester <kenduskeagstream@...>
        Subject: Re: [EndeweardeTailor] Opinions?
        To: EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 8:32 AM

         

        I have not used stuff from either of those pattern companies.  Take a look at the instructions.  Are they clear?  Take a look at the pattern pieces.  Were they designed with your body proportions in mind?  Some patterns out there seem to be designed without any regard to the human shape!  For your body type, I'd first gravitate toward the first pattern.
         
        I suspect nearly half  of the women in the SCA harbor a secret desire for the dress from that picture.   So, why are you going to make a new dress?  Do you want to explore the historical aspects of the SCA?  Do you want to explore the fantasy/dream aspects of the SCA?  Do you just not want to be nekkid?  I don't think there are really right and wrong answers.  Just be sure the dress fits with your mindset at the moment.  Not all dresses need to fit any one category.
         
        Margaret

        --- On Fri, 2/5/10, Marjorie <jorie6568@yahoo. com> wrote:

        From: Marjorie <jorie6568@yahoo. com>
        Subject: [EndeweardeTailor] Opinions?
        To: EndeweardeTailor@ yahoogroups. com
        Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 8:16 AM

         
        I am going to make a bliaut. I have a pattern that I bought quite awhile ago--before I had really done any research. It is this: http://www.wingeo. com/patterns/ 100series/ patrn103. jpg
        It has "princess seaming" which, of course is not period. Should I make it anyway?

        I also have this: http://www.lostcoas thistpatterns. com/woofmeropefo .html
        Should I use that instead?

        Of course what I really wanted was the dress in this painting.

        http://images. google.com/ imgres?imgurl= http://upload. wikimedia. org/wikipedia/ commons/thumb/ 9/9a/Edmund_ blair_leighton_ accolade. jpg/150px- Edmund_blair_ leighton_ accolade. jpg&imgrefurl= http://en. wikipedia. org/wiki/ Bliaut&usg= __itIsOLqHPqPAZ9 iEd0XeLjGFDCs= &h=214&w= 150&sz=13& hl=en&start= 106&um=1& itbs=1&tbnid= LI3whpvhnRTb_ M:&tbnh=106& tbnw=74&prev= /images%3Fq% 3Dbliaut% 26ndsp%3D20% 26hl%3Den% 26rlz%3D1C1CHOF_ enUS354US354% 26sa%3DN% 26start%3D100% 26um%3D1

        But alas, from all that I know, it is NOT period... So what does everyone think?



      • Margaret Rochester
        Ah Ha! Who will notice?  Who will care?  YOU will.  Make garb that pleases you.  Do you care if I wear a gown with princess seams?  Do you care if
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 5, 2010
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          Ah Ha!

          Who will notice?  Who will care?  YOU will.  Make garb that pleases you.  Do you 'care' if I wear a gown with princess seams?  Do you 'care' if Mira does, or Aneleda or Leo or Brynn or Rose or Sylvia or or or or?  You might notice, but I can't imagine you actually care if we do or not.  Most anything you make kinda-sorta in that vein will be acceptable in the SCA.  So now you just need to make something that fits with your vision of the SCA and your role in it.

          You say you want something like the painting, but more authentic.  I suspect then, you want the pattern without princess seams.  And it is from a company you know and understand.

          Margaret


        • L T
          For the record, neither Lisa or Bryn cares if anyone wants to put princess seams in a dress. I think it is a decision to make for the artist who is
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 5, 2010
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            For the record, neither Lisa or Bryn cares if anyone wants to put princess seams in a dress. <smile> I think it is a decision to make for the artist who is deciding what tailoring techniques to use if you might consider entering a garment in an A+S competition (versus an A+S display) if you want to "win" (or at least see how other evaluate your work in a points based system).  
             
            The Office of the Stock Clerk has nice indices for the Compleat Anachronist booklets and Tournament Illuminated articles on the topic of bliauts as follows:
             
            The Compleat Anachronist
            #124 published 7/04
            Elle S'Habille en Bliaut: Haute Couture of the 12th Century
             
            Tournaments Illuminated
            under the topic GARB: 12TH CENTURY
            Garb for a Twelfth Century Lady Richard Wymarc Summer 1995 (#115)
            The Bliaut: A Reconstruction Based on Primary Source Material Rowena le Sarjent Winter 1993 (#109)
            The Bliaut: A New Perspective on Pattern and Cut Rosemounde of Mercia Summer 1987 (#83)
            The Norman Bliaut Angelina Nicolette Spring 1982 (#62)
             
            Some of the articles may be hyperlinked (if the links still work). I'm afraid I can't offer to scan the first two TI issues because my copies are somewhere in storage (and my scanner isn't hooked up on the new computer yet). The articles were only a few pages each - Brita may have them to look at if you were planning to go to youth fighter practice anyway - Brita is doing a heraldry discussion at 2 pm this sunday. She might be able to pick out those issues to skim over and see if anything is of use in addition to your patterns.  
             
            I suggest the articles if you haven't seen them because if you want the option of working around the princess seams with that style of dress these earlier articles may have mentioned some ways to do that. There was a general trend in SCA costuming articles 15 years ago aimed at adapting commercial patterns for the novice seamstress (like me). You seem to like the first pattern.
             
            Margaret is dead on- make something that pleases YOU. Every woman should have a dress or two in their lives where they look in the mirror and say "heck, I look HOT!"
             
            Lisa
             
             
             
            --- On Fri, 2/5/10, Margaret Rochester <kenduskeagstream@...> wrote:

            From: Margaret Rochester <kenduskeagstream@...>
            Subject: Re: [EndeweardeTailor] Opinions?
            To: EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 9:48 AM

             
            Ah Ha!

            Who will notice?  Who will care?  YOU will.  Make garb that pleases you.  Do you 'care' if I wear a gown with princess seams?  Do you 'care' if Mira does, or Aneleda or Leo or Brynn or Rose or Sylvia or or or or?  You might notice, but I can't imagine you actually care if we do or not.  Most anything you make kinda-sorta in that vein will be acceptable in the SCA.  So now you just need to make something that fits with your vision of the SCA and your role in it.

            You say you want something like the painting, but more authentic.  I suspect then, you want the pattern without princess seams.  And it is from a company you know and understand.

            Margaret



          • catetredheves
            Sleeves from the first and bodice from the second? Skirt from whichever you like best. cate
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 5, 2010
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              Sleeves from the first and bodice from the second? Skirt from whichever you like best.
              cate

              --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, L T <ladybrynmillar@...> wrote:
              >
              > For the record, neither Lisa or Bryn cares if anyone wants to put princess seams in a dress. <smile> I think it is a decision to make for the artist who is deciding what tailoring techniques to use if you might consider entering a garment in an A+S competition (versus an A+S display) if you want to "win" (or at least see how other evaluate your work in a points based system). Â
              > Â
              > The Office of the Stock Clerk has nice indices for the Compleat Anachronist booklets and Tournament Illuminated articles on the topic of bliauts as follows:
              > Â
              > The Compleat Anachronist
              > #124 published 7/04
              > Elle S'Habille en Bliaut: Haute Couture of the 12th Century
              > Â
              > Tournaments Illuminated
              > under the topic GARB: 12TH CENTURY
              > Garb for a Twelfth Century Lady Richard Wymarc Summer 1995 (#115)
              > The Bliaut: A Reconstruction Based on Primary Source Material Rowena le Sarjent Winter 1993 (#109)
              > The Bliaut: A New Perspective on Pattern and Cut Rosemounde of Mercia Summer 1987 (#83)
              > The Norman Bliaut Angelina Nicolette Spring 1982 (#62)
              > Â
              > Some of the articles may be hyperlinked (if the links still work). I'm afraid I can't offer to scan the first two TI issues because my copies are somewhere in storage (and my scanner isn't hooked up on the new computer yet). The articles were only a few pages each - Brita may have them to look at if you were planning to go to youth fighter practice anyway - Brita is doing a heraldry discussion at 2 pm this sunday. She might be able to pick out those issues to skim over and see if anything is of use in addition to your patterns. Â
              > Â
              > I suggest the articles if you haven't seen them because if you want the option of working around the princess seams with that style of dress these earlier articles may have mentioned some ways to do that. There was a general trend in SCA costuming articles 15 years ago aimed at adapting commercial patterns for the novice seamstress (like me). You seem to like the first pattern.
              > Â
              > Margaret is dead on- make something that pleases YOU. Every woman should have a dress or two in their lives where they look in the mirror and say "heck, I look HOT!"
              > Â
              > Lisa
              > Â
              > Â
              > Â
              > --- On Fri, 2/5/10, Margaret Rochester <kenduskeagstream@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > From: Margaret Rochester <kenduskeagstream@...>
              > Subject: Re: [EndeweardeTailor] Opinions?
              > To: EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 9:48 AM
              >
              >
              > Â
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Ah Ha!
              >
              > Who will notice? Who will care? YOU will. Make garb that pleases you. Do you 'care' if I wear a gown with princess seams? Do you 'care' if Mira does, or Aneleda or Leo or Brynn or Rose or Sylvia or or or or? You might notice, but I can't imagine you actually care if we do or not. Most anything you make kinda-sorta in that vein will be acceptable in the SCA. So now you just need to make something that fits with your vision of the SCA and your role in it.
              >
              > You say you want something like the painting, but more authentic. I suspect then, you want the pattern without princess seams. And it is from a company you know and understand.
              >
              > Margaret
              >
            • Jason goodrich
              lady Margaret wrote: Do you care if I wear a gown with princess seams? Do you care if Mira does, or Aneleda or Leo or Brynn or Rose or Sylvia or or or or?
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 5, 2010
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                lady Margaret wrote:

                Do you 'care' if I wear a gown with princess seams? Do you 'care' if Mira does, or Aneleda or Leo or Brynn or Rose or Sylvia or or or or?  You might notice, but I can't imagine you actually care if we do or not.

                I'd wager that you would NOTICE and that you CARE if I wore a dress with Princess Seams!

                I'd venture to say that the use of period method and design goes as far as your desire to be as 'period correct' as you want your garb to be.....

                Example, at Birka this last weekend, we viewed the most perfect Tudor dressed men and women. they had perfect threads, great foot wear and even spoke appropriately both in inflection and content.... it was lovely... I applaud them... But those folks few and far between

                So do what makes you happy!

                On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 3:32 PM, catetredheves <kelley_rambo@...> wrote:
                 

                Sleeves from the first and bodice from the second? Skirt from whichever you like best.
                cate

                --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, L T <ladybrynmillar@...> wrote:
                >
                > For the record, neither Lisa or Bryn cares if anyone wants to put princess seams in a dress. <smile> I think it is a decision to make for the artist who is deciding what tailoring techniques to use if you might consider entering a garment in an A+S competition (versus an A+S display) if you want to "win" (or at least see how other evaluate your work in a points based system). Â
                > Â

                > The Office of the Stock Clerk has nice indices for the Compleat Anachronist booklets and Tournament Illuminated articles on the topic of bliauts as follows:
                > Â
                > The Compleat Anachronist
                > #124 published 7/04
                > Elle S'Habille en Bliaut: Haute Couture of the 12th Century
                > Â
                > Tournaments Illuminated
                > under the topic GARB: 12TH CENTURY
                > Garb for a Twelfth Century Lady Richard Wymarc Summer 1995 (#115)
                > The Bliaut: A Reconstruction Based on Primary Source Material Rowena le Sarjent Winter 1993 (#109)
                > The Bliaut: A New Perspective on Pattern and Cut Rosemounde of Mercia Summer 1987 (#83)
                > The Norman Bliaut Angelina Nicolette Spring 1982 (#62)
                > Â
                > Some of the articles may be hyperlinked (if the links still work). I'm afraid I can't offer to scan the first two TI issues because my copies are somewhere in storage (and my scanner isn't hooked up on the new computer yet). The articles were only a few pages each - Brita may have them to look at if you were planning to go to youth fighter practice anyway - Brita is doing a heraldry discussion at 2 pm this sunday. She might be able to pick out those issues to skim over and see if anything is of use in addition to your patterns. Â
                > Â
                > I suggest the articles if you haven't seen them because if you want the option of working around the princess seams with that style of dress these earlier articles may have mentioned some ways to do that. There was a general trend in SCA costuming articles 15 years ago aimed at adapting commercial patterns for the novice seamstress (like me). You seem to like the first pattern.
                > Â
                > Margaret is dead on- make something that pleases YOU. Every woman should have a dress or two in their lives where they look in the mirror and say "heck, I look HOT!"
                > Â
                > Lisa
                > Â
                > Â
                > Â
                > --- On Fri, 2/5/10, Margaret Rochester <kenduskeagstream@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > From: Margaret Rochester <kenduskeagstream@...>

                > Subject: Re: [EndeweardeTailor] Opinions?
                > To: EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 9:48 AM
                >
                >
                > Â
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Ah Ha!
                >
                > Who will notice? Who will care? YOU will. Make garb that pleases you. Do you 'care' if I wear a gown with princess seams? Do you 'care' if Mira does, or Aneleda or Leo or Brynn or Rose or Sylvia or or or or? You might notice, but I can't imagine you actually care if we do or not. Most anything you make kinda-sorta in that vein will be acceptable in the SCA. So now you just need to make something that fits with your vision of the SCA and your role in it.
                >
                > You say you want something like the painting, but more authentic. I suspect then, you want the pattern without princess seams. And it is from a company you know and understand.
                >
                > Margaret
                >


              • catetredheves
                Sara would notice every time she put the gown on that it has princess seams (she always notices when I wear them). She s not anal about it, just notices. My
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 5, 2010
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                  Sara would notice every time she put the gown on that it has princess seams (she always notices when I wear them). She's not anal about it, just notices. My advice - make it without princess seams so you're more happy with it every time you put it on, because you know you'll notice. And now that that topic has been beat into the ground, if you make it with princess seams we'll all notice! HA!
                  chuckling and wishing she just had the time to make a new dress,
                  cate

                  --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, Jason goodrich <jbgood789@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > lady Margaret wrote:
                  >
                  > Do you 'care' if I wear a gown with princess seams? Do you 'care' if Mira
                  > does, or Aneleda or Leo or Brynn or Rose or Sylvia or or or or? You might
                  > notice, but I can't imagine you actually care if we do or not.
                  >
                  > I'd wager that you would NOTICE and that you CARE if I wore a dress with
                  > Princess Seams!
                  >
                  > I'd venture to say that the use of period method and design goes as far as
                  > your desire to be as 'period correct' as you want your garb to be.....
                  >
                  > Example, at Birka this last weekend, we viewed the most perfect Tudor
                  > dressed men and women. they had perfect threads, great foot wear and even
                  > spoke appropriately both in inflection and content.... it was lovely... I
                  > applaud them... But those folks few and far between
                  >
                  > So do what makes you happy!
                  >
                  > On Fri, Feb 5, 2010 at 3:32 PM, catetredheves <kelley_rambo@...>wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Sleeves from the first and bodice from the second? Skirt from whichever you
                  > > like best.
                  > > cate
                  > >
                  > > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com<EndeweardeTailor%40yahoogroups.com>,
                  > > L T <ladybrynmillar@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > For the record, neither Lisa or Bryn cares if anyone wants to put
                  > > princess seams in a dress. <smile> I think it is a decision to make for the
                  > > artist who is deciding what tailoring techniques to use if you might
                  > > consider entering a garment in an A+SÂ competition (versus an A+SÂ display)
                  > > if you want to "win" (or at least see how other evaluate your work in a
                  > > points based system). Â
                  > > > Â
                  > > > The Office of the Stock Clerk has nice indices for the Compleat
                  > > Anachronist booklets and Tournament Illuminated articles on the topic of
                  > > bliauts as follows:
                  > > > Â
                  > > > The Compleat Anachronist
                  > > > #124 published 7/04
                  > > > Elle S'Habille en Bliaut: Haute Couture of the 12th Century
                  > > > Â
                  > > > Tournaments Illuminated
                  > > > under the topic GARB: 12TH CENTURY
                  > > > Garb for a Twelfth Century Lady Richard Wymarc Summer 1995 (#115)
                  > > > The Bliaut: A Reconstruction Based on Primary Source Material Rowena le
                  > > Sarjent Winter 1993 (#109)
                  > > > The Bliaut: A New Perspective on Pattern and Cut Rosemounde of Mercia
                  > > Summer 1987 (#83)
                  > > > The Norman Bliaut Angelina Nicolette Spring 1982 (#62)
                  > > > Â
                  > > > Some of the articles may be hyperlinked (if the links still work). I'm
                  > > afraid I can't offer to scan the first two TI issues because my copies are
                  > > somewhere in storage (and my scanner isn't hooked up on the new computer
                  > > yet). The articles were only a few pages each - Brita may have them to look
                  > > at if you were planning to go to youth fighter practice anyway - Brita is
                  > > doing a heraldry discussion at 2 pm this sunday. She might be able to pick
                  > > out those issues to skim over and see if anything is of use in addition to
                  > > your patterns. Â
                  > > > Â
                  > > > I suggest the articles if you haven't seen them because if you want the
                  > > option of working around the princess seams with that style of dress these
                  > > earlier articles may have mentioned some ways to do that. There was a
                  > > general trend in SCA costuming articles 15 years ago aimed at adapting
                  > > commercial patterns for the novice seamstress (like me). You seem to like
                  > > the first pattern.
                  > > > Â
                  > > > Margaret is dead on- make something that pleases YOU. Every woman should
                  > > have a dress or two in their lives where they look in the mirror and say
                  > > "heck, I look HOT!"
                  > > > Â
                  > > > Lisa
                  > > > Â
                  > > > Â
                  > > > Â
                  > > > --- On Fri, 2/5/10, Margaret Rochester <kenduskeagstream@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > From: Margaret Rochester <kenduskeagstream@>
                  > >
                  > > > Subject: Re: [EndeweardeTailor] Opinions?
                  > > > To: EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com<EndeweardeTailor%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > > > Date: Friday, February 5, 2010, 9:48 AM
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Â
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Ah Ha!
                  > > >
                  > > > Who will notice? Who will care? YOU will. Make garb that pleases you.Â
                  > > Do you 'care' if I wear a gown with princess seams? Do you 'care' if Mira
                  > > does, or Aneleda or Leo or Brynn or Rose or Sylvia or or or or? You might
                  > > notice, but I can't imagine you actually care if we do or not. Most
                  > > anything you make kinda-sorta in that vein will be acceptable in the SCA.Â
                  > > So now you just need to make something that fits with your vision of the SCA
                  > > and your role in it.
                  > > >
                  > > > You say you want something like the painting, but more authentic. I
                  > > suspect then, you want the pattern without princess seams. And it is from a
                  > > company you know and understand.
                  > > >
                  > > > Margaret
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
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