Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [EndeweardeTailor] Re: sleeves

Expand Messages
  • L T
    If the gown has no shoulder straps then the sleeves (obviously) cannot be attached to the gown on top of the shoulder by means of ties. What type of sleeves
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 5, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      If the gown has no shoulder straps then the sleeves
      (obviously) cannot be attached to the gown on top of
      the shoulder by means of ties. What type of sleeves
      and gown are you looking at?

      Here is an alternative suggestion for costuming -
      Women were sometimes pinned into their gowns. Although
      I can't cite the reference on the spot, I have seen
      zoomed images of paintings in which straight dressing
      pins have been used to close a bodice along the rib
      cage area under the arm to the waist (amazing details
      the painters put in sometimes!). The images were
      presented as supporting evidence for the discussion
      about different types of closure used for garments.

      I know from one of the history channel programs that
      in the 16th century among the working classes that
      making long dress pins was one of the trades usually
      performed by older people and children who couldn't
      perform more physically demanding tasks. The pay was a
      pitence and many pins had to be produced for that
      meager pay.

      The pins may have been something along the line like
      these from Historic Enterprises:
      http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=212&c=33

      The pins used on veils and gowns were not necessarily
      hidden from sight as we might try to do today.

      Although I'm not sure I'd try dressing pins (yet) for
      clothes, I think they are an interesting alternative.
      I can definitely see the need for a dressing buddy to
      help pin you into clothes or lace your gown.

      Bryn

      --- Cate <kelley@...> wrote:

      > I'm not sure if I wrote that question right, but I
      > did upload a
      > picture of what I mean, it's under "files." Given
      > your answer about
      > the sleeves weighing so much, I would think that if
      > the bodice did
      > not have over-the-shoulder straps (attached to the
      > bodice, not ties)
      > the look might be more consistent? I don't know.
      > It seems to depend
      > on the dress, but maybe not the time period?
      > Thoughts?
      > Cate
      >
      > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Wendi"
      > <lobster_kelaguen@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > True!
      > > It may have had something to do with the weight of
      > the sleeves as
      > they
      > > became more and more massive. Can you imagine the
      > gapping caused
      > by a
      > > five pound fur-trimmed sleeve attached with ties?
      >
      > >
      > > The mix and match style was very cost effective
      > for many women. If
      > > you wanted the look of a new gown, just switch the
      > sleeves. I think
      > > of the mix and match sleeves as being in style
      > slightly before the
      > > Tudor era, but the truth is that they probably
      > overlap. Especially,
      > > in those classes where cost was an issue. Let's
      > call them the
      > smaller
      > > lighter sleeved set.
      > >
      > > Next question.
      > > Gwen.
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Cate"
      > <kelley@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I was reading some website somewhere (probably a
      > dress diary) and
      > the
      > > > writer suggested that Tudor gowns may have had
      > the sleeves
      > attached
      > > > directly to the bodice with no shoulder straps -
      > any thoughts?
      > > > Cate
      > > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > (Yahoo! ID required)
      >
      > mailto:EndeweardeTailor-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >



      ____________________________________________________________________________________
      Be a better friend, newshound, and
      know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
    • Cate
      I ve added some pictures in the photos section in the Tudor album. I don t think I ll try the pinning - may make dancing a bit painful! Cate ...
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 5, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        I've added some pictures in the "photos" section in the Tudor album.
        I don't think I'll try the pinning - may make dancing a bit painful!
        Cate

        --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, L T <ladybrynmillar@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > If the gown has no shoulder straps then the sleeves
        > (obviously) cannot be attached to the gown on top of
        > the shoulder by means of ties. What type of sleeves
        > and gown are you looking at?
        >
        > Here is an alternative suggestion for costuming -
        > Women were sometimes pinned into their gowns. Although
        > I can't cite the reference on the spot, I have seen
        > zoomed images of paintings in which straight dressing
        > pins have been used to close a bodice along the rib
        > cage area under the arm to the waist (amazing details
        > the painters put in sometimes!). The images were
        > presented as supporting evidence for the discussion
        > about different types of closure used for garments.
        >
        > I know from one of the history channel programs that
        > in the 16th century among the working classes that
        > making long dress pins was one of the trades usually
        > performed by older people and children who couldn't
        > perform more physically demanding tasks. The pay was a
        > pitence and many pins had to be produced for that
        > meager pay.
        >
        > The pins may have been something along the line like
        > these from Historic Enterprises:
        > http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?
        m=product_detail&p=212&c=33
        >
        > The pins used on veils and gowns were not necessarily
        > hidden from sight as we might try to do today.
        >
        > Although I'm not sure I'd try dressing pins (yet) for
        > clothes, I think they are an interesting alternative.
        > I can definitely see the need for a dressing buddy to
        > help pin you into clothes or lace your gown.
        >
        > Bryn
        >
        > --- Cate <kelley@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I'm not sure if I wrote that question right, but I
        > > did upload a
        > > picture of what I mean, it's under "files." Given
        > > your answer about
        > > the sleeves weighing so much, I would think that if
        > > the bodice did
        > > not have over-the-shoulder straps (attached to the
        > > bodice, not ties)
        > > the look might be more consistent? I don't know.
        > > It seems to depend
        > > on the dress, but maybe not the time period?
        > > Thoughts?
        > > Cate
        > >
        > > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Wendi"
        > > <lobster_kelaguen@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > True!
        > > > It may have had something to do with the weight of
        > > the sleeves as
        > > they
        > > > became more and more massive. Can you imagine the
        > > gapping caused
        > > by a
        > > > five pound fur-trimmed sleeve attached with ties?
        > >
        > > >
        > > > The mix and match style was very cost effective
        > > for many women. If
        > > > you wanted the look of a new gown, just switch the
        > > sleeves. I think
        > > > of the mix and match sleeves as being in style
        > > slightly before the
        > > > Tudor era, but the truth is that they probably
        > > overlap. Especially,
        > > > in those classes where cost was an issue. Let's
        > > call them the
        > > smaller
        > > > lighter sleeved set.
        > > >
        > > > Next question.
        > > > Gwen.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Cate"
        > > <kelley@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > I was reading some website somewhere (probably a
        > > dress diary) and
        > > the
        > > > > writer suggested that Tudor gowns may have had
        > > the sleeves
        > > attached
        > > > > directly to the bodice with no shoulder straps -
        > > any thoughts?
        > > > > Cate
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > > (Yahoo! ID required)
        > >
        > > mailto:EndeweardeTailor-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ______________________________________________________________________
        ______________
        > Be a better friend, newshound, and
        > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
        http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.