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sleeves

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  • Cate
    I was reading some website somewhere (probably a dress diary) and the writer suggested that Tudor gowns may have had the sleeves attached directly to the
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 4, 2008
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      I was reading some website somewhere (probably a dress diary) and the
      writer suggested that Tudor gowns may have had the sleeves attached
      directly to the bodice with no shoulder straps - any thoughts?
      Cate
    • Wendi
      True! It may have had something to do with the weight of the sleeves as they became more and more massive. Can you imagine the gapping caused by a five pound
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 5, 2008
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        True!
        It may have had something to do with the weight of the sleeves as they
        became more and more massive. Can you imagine the gapping caused by a
        five pound fur-trimmed sleeve attached with ties?

        The mix and match style was very cost effective for many women. If
        you wanted the look of a new gown, just switch the sleeves. I think
        of the mix and match sleeves as being in style slightly before the
        Tudor era, but the truth is that they probably overlap. Especially,
        in those classes where cost was an issue. Let's call them the smaller
        lighter sleeved set.

        Next question.
        Gwen.


        --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Cate" <kelley@...> wrote:
        >
        > I was reading some website somewhere (probably a dress diary) and the
        > writer suggested that Tudor gowns may have had the sleeves attached
        > directly to the bodice with no shoulder straps - any thoughts?
        > Cate
        >
      • Cate
        I m not sure if I wrote that question right, but I did upload a picture of what I mean, it s under files. Given your answer about the sleeves weighing so
        Message 3 of 5 , Jan 5, 2008
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          I'm not sure if I wrote that question right, but I did upload a
          picture of what I mean, it's under "files." Given your answer about
          the sleeves weighing so much, I would think that if the bodice did
          not have over-the-shoulder straps (attached to the bodice, not ties)
          the look might be more consistent? I don't know. It seems to depend
          on the dress, but maybe not the time period?
          Thoughts?
          Cate

          --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Wendi"
          <lobster_kelaguen@...> wrote:
          >
          > True!
          > It may have had something to do with the weight of the sleeves as
          they
          > became more and more massive. Can you imagine the gapping caused
          by a
          > five pound fur-trimmed sleeve attached with ties?
          >
          > The mix and match style was very cost effective for many women. If
          > you wanted the look of a new gown, just switch the sleeves. I think
          > of the mix and match sleeves as being in style slightly before the
          > Tudor era, but the truth is that they probably overlap. Especially,
          > in those classes where cost was an issue. Let's call them the
          smaller
          > lighter sleeved set.
          >
          > Next question.
          > Gwen.
          >
          >
          > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Cate" <kelley@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I was reading some website somewhere (probably a dress diary) and
          the
          > > writer suggested that Tudor gowns may have had the sleeves
          attached
          > > directly to the bodice with no shoulder straps - any thoughts?
          > > Cate
          > >
          >
        • L T
          If the gown has no shoulder straps then the sleeves (obviously) cannot be attached to the gown on top of the shoulder by means of ties. What type of sleeves
          Message 4 of 5 , Jan 5, 2008
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            If the gown has no shoulder straps then the sleeves
            (obviously) cannot be attached to the gown on top of
            the shoulder by means of ties. What type of sleeves
            and gown are you looking at?

            Here is an alternative suggestion for costuming -
            Women were sometimes pinned into their gowns. Although
            I can't cite the reference on the spot, I have seen
            zoomed images of paintings in which straight dressing
            pins have been used to close a bodice along the rib
            cage area under the arm to the waist (amazing details
            the painters put in sometimes!). The images were
            presented as supporting evidence for the discussion
            about different types of closure used for garments.

            I know from one of the history channel programs that
            in the 16th century among the working classes that
            making long dress pins was one of the trades usually
            performed by older people and children who couldn't
            perform more physically demanding tasks. The pay was a
            pitence and many pins had to be produced for that
            meager pay.

            The pins may have been something along the line like
            these from Historic Enterprises:
            http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=212&c=33

            The pins used on veils and gowns were not necessarily
            hidden from sight as we might try to do today.

            Although I'm not sure I'd try dressing pins (yet) for
            clothes, I think they are an interesting alternative.
            I can definitely see the need for a dressing buddy to
            help pin you into clothes or lace your gown.

            Bryn

            --- Cate <kelley@...> wrote:

            > I'm not sure if I wrote that question right, but I
            > did upload a
            > picture of what I mean, it's under "files." Given
            > your answer about
            > the sleeves weighing so much, I would think that if
            > the bodice did
            > not have over-the-shoulder straps (attached to the
            > bodice, not ties)
            > the look might be more consistent? I don't know.
            > It seems to depend
            > on the dress, but maybe not the time period?
            > Thoughts?
            > Cate
            >
            > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Wendi"
            > <lobster_kelaguen@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > True!
            > > It may have had something to do with the weight of
            > the sleeves as
            > they
            > > became more and more massive. Can you imagine the
            > gapping caused
            > by a
            > > five pound fur-trimmed sleeve attached with ties?
            >
            > >
            > > The mix and match style was very cost effective
            > for many women. If
            > > you wanted the look of a new gown, just switch the
            > sleeves. I think
            > > of the mix and match sleeves as being in style
            > slightly before the
            > > Tudor era, but the truth is that they probably
            > overlap. Especially,
            > > in those classes where cost was an issue. Let's
            > call them the
            > smaller
            > > lighter sleeved set.
            > >
            > > Next question.
            > > Gwen.
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Cate"
            > <kelley@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I was reading some website somewhere (probably a
            > dress diary) and
            > the
            > > > writer suggested that Tudor gowns may have had
            > the sleeves
            > attached
            > > > directly to the bodice with no shoulder straps -
            > any thoughts?
            > > > Cate
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > (Yahoo! ID required)
            >
            > mailto:EndeweardeTailor-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >



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          • Cate
            I ve added some pictures in the photos section in the Tudor album. I don t think I ll try the pinning - may make dancing a bit painful! Cate ...
            Message 5 of 5 , Jan 5, 2008
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              I've added some pictures in the "photos" section in the Tudor album.
              I don't think I'll try the pinning - may make dancing a bit painful!
              Cate

              --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, L T <ladybrynmillar@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > If the gown has no shoulder straps then the sleeves
              > (obviously) cannot be attached to the gown on top of
              > the shoulder by means of ties. What type of sleeves
              > and gown are you looking at?
              >
              > Here is an alternative suggestion for costuming -
              > Women were sometimes pinned into their gowns. Although
              > I can't cite the reference on the spot, I have seen
              > zoomed images of paintings in which straight dressing
              > pins have been used to close a bodice along the rib
              > cage area under the arm to the waist (amazing details
              > the painters put in sometimes!). The images were
              > presented as supporting evidence for the discussion
              > about different types of closure used for garments.
              >
              > I know from one of the history channel programs that
              > in the 16th century among the working classes that
              > making long dress pins was one of the trades usually
              > performed by older people and children who couldn't
              > perform more physically demanding tasks. The pay was a
              > pitence and many pins had to be produced for that
              > meager pay.
              >
              > The pins may have been something along the line like
              > these from Historic Enterprises:
              > http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?
              m=product_detail&p=212&c=33
              >
              > The pins used on veils and gowns were not necessarily
              > hidden from sight as we might try to do today.
              >
              > Although I'm not sure I'd try dressing pins (yet) for
              > clothes, I think they are an interesting alternative.
              > I can definitely see the need for a dressing buddy to
              > help pin you into clothes or lace your gown.
              >
              > Bryn
              >
              > --- Cate <kelley@...> wrote:
              >
              > > I'm not sure if I wrote that question right, but I
              > > did upload a
              > > picture of what I mean, it's under "files." Given
              > > your answer about
              > > the sleeves weighing so much, I would think that if
              > > the bodice did
              > > not have over-the-shoulder straps (attached to the
              > > bodice, not ties)
              > > the look might be more consistent? I don't know.
              > > It seems to depend
              > > on the dress, but maybe not the time period?
              > > Thoughts?
              > > Cate
              > >
              > > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Wendi"
              > > <lobster_kelaguen@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > True!
              > > > It may have had something to do with the weight of
              > > the sleeves as
              > > they
              > > > became more and more massive. Can you imagine the
              > > gapping caused
              > > by a
              > > > five pound fur-trimmed sleeve attached with ties?
              > >
              > > >
              > > > The mix and match style was very cost effective
              > > for many women. If
              > > > you wanted the look of a new gown, just switch the
              > > sleeves. I think
              > > > of the mix and match sleeves as being in style
              > > slightly before the
              > > > Tudor era, but the truth is that they probably
              > > overlap. Especially,
              > > > in those classes where cost was an issue. Let's
              > > call them the
              > > smaller
              > > > lighter sleeved set.
              > > >
              > > > Next question.
              > > > Gwen.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Cate"
              > > <kelley@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I was reading some website somewhere (probably a
              > > dress diary) and
              > > the
              > > > > writer suggested that Tudor gowns may have had
              > > the sleeves
              > > attached
              > > > > directly to the bodice with no shoulder straps -
              > > any thoughts?
              > > > > Cate
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > (Yahoo! ID required)
              > >
              > > mailto:EndeweardeTailor-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              >
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