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Re: corsets

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  • Cate
    I was looking at some by Holbein and others of King Henry s daughters and wives. Your skill at sewing far exceeds mine. I need a dictionary just to understand
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 20, 2007
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      I was looking at some by Holbein and others of King Henry's
      daughters and wives.

      Your skill at sewing far exceeds mine. I need a dictionary just to
      understand what you're referring to, Bryn. I have to keep it very
      simple, but thanks. :-)
      Cate

      --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, L T <ladybrynmillar@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > What pictures are you looking at when you refer to the
      > Tudor gown style? Just curious..
      >
      > The authors of the Tudor Tailor book have a website
      > http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/wwwtudortailor/
      >
      > They now have a few patterns (including a corset
      > pattern) on their sales page here:
      > http://www.kissthefrog.co.uk/wwwtudortailor/sales.htm
      >
      > You can order the Tudor Tailor book from Amazon but it
      > takes a few weeks to arrive.
      >
      > One image of the back of a gathered skirt in the TT
      > book mentions that it has been knife pleated. The
      > front is flat to match the bodice front opening. So
      > that everything fits together the front of the skirt
      > is left flat but the back is pleated so the entire
      > skirt waistline will fit to the bodice (and it looks
      > pretty). The authors probably have a sewing machine
      > with some type of gathering attachment on it (like a
      > pleating foot).
      >
      > Many English womens gowns were a separate bodice and
      > skirt - the skirt in that case would be cartridge
      > pleated and attached to a waistband (from what I
      > understand). There may be a separate closer fitting
      > kirtle underneath. There may also be other skirts.
      >
      > One cheat used by some costumers who prefer to avoid
      > tedious hand sewing is to use a drapery tape that has
      > a couple of sturdy strings already inserted into
      > channels. You sew the curtain panel fabric flat onto
      > the tape and then with a couple of tugs, instant
      > pleated drapes (or in our case, gathered skirt). JoAnn
      > and some Mardens stores sell this (or used to the last
      > time I checked - at JoAnns check the drapery section
      > if it isn't with the rest of the notions). With some
      > strategic planning with where the flat and gathered
      > parts of the skirt-to-bodice areas will be, this might
      > be an easy way to adjust the fit in the back.
      >
      > The black cotton velvet you plan to use sounds lovely.
      >
      >
      > Bryn
      >
      > --- Cate <kelley@...> wrote:
      >
      > > I'm thinking of making a Tudor style gown - I have a
      > > bunch of black
      > > cotton velvet. Gwen - what kind of waist does your
      > > gown have? If
      > > I'm looking at the pictures right, it seems that the
      > > earlier gowns
      > > have a straight waist, but the later (1540's or so)
      > > come to a point
      > > in the front. Some also seem to have the skirts
      > > gathered a bit in
      > > the back, but straight in the front. Does that make
      > > sense?
      > > Thanks,
      > > Cate
      > >
      > > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Wendi"
      > > <lobster_kelaguen@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > I second that! Yes, as someone who sometimes does
      > > and sometimes
      > > > doesn't wear a corset under my Tudor gowns. The
      > > line of the
      > > bodice is
      > > > better with a corset, it keeps those unsightly
      > > bulges and wrinkles
      > > > away and makes you stand and sit much more
      > > regally. Good posture
      > > is
      > > > enforced. I bought my corset in Bali, it was part
      > > of their
      > > > traditional garb, but it is modern. I haven't
      > > tried to make my own
      > > > corset. I really like the one I have, since it
      > > has enough stretch
      > > not
      > > > to strangle. I haven't seen any good corsets for
      > > sale in the
      > > states,
      > > > unless you go on-line or make your own. If you
      > > put enough sturdy
      > > > boning in a bodice, you can get away without one,
      > > but I think a
      > > good
      > > > corset is an investment, like a hoop skirt, you
      > > really don't need
      > > more
      > > > than one. Look at castlegardencreations.com they
      > > will custom make
      > > one
      > > > for you. They also sell hoop skirts, and that
      > > chaperone you were
      > > > looking into before.
      > > >
      > > > http://www.castlegardencreations.com/store.php?
      > > crn=73&rn=352&action=show_detail
      > > >
      > > > http://www.castlegardencreations.com/store.php?
      > > crn=72&rn=335&action=show_detail
      > > >
      > > > Were you thinking of dancing in Tudor style?
      > > > Gwen.
      > > >
      > > > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, L T
      > > <ladybrynmillar@>
      > > wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Yes!, if you want to create a garment that will
      > > have a
      > > > > more "period" fit in the torso. You have to
      > > decide if
      > > > > you want to wear the close fitting support
      > > > > undergarment for 6-8 hours and still be able to
      > > move
      > > > > and dance in it. Once you have a corset you are
      > > happy
      > > > > with you can use it for other dresses.
      > > > >
      > > > > If you are very hesitant about wearing a corset
      > > then
      > > > > consider adding some light support to the gown
      > > bodice
      > > > > itself so it fits with a smoother line and don't
      > > worry
      > > > > about the corset (yet). That might be a good
      > > > > compromise if you are still learning how to sew
      > > and
      > > > > fit garments.
      > > > >
      > > > > For example, I have a commercially purchased
      > > bodice
      > > > > that has light metal strips near the front
      > > lacing
      > > > > grommet holes which keep the vertical line of
      > > the
      > > > > bodice front closure relatively stiff and smooth
      > > > > (bends a bit with me when I move). The rest of
      > > the
      > > > > bodice does not have any additional supports but
      > > they
      > > > > were probably left off since this is a generic
      > > > > multisize garment sold to the general public who
      > > won't
      > > > > be wearing a corset. I bought it in the summer
      > > at a
      > > > > GNEW and didn't want something too structured to
      > > wear
      > > > > for court since I knew I would be out fencing
      > > most of
      > > > > the day and the thought of crawling into a
      > > corset when
      > > > > hot and tired at days end wasn't appealing. I
      > > just
      > > > > wanted a decent looking colored bodice to go
      > > over a
      > > > > long skirt - you know, the standard scadian
      > > pseudo ren
      > > > > garb. It was one step further along in having
      > > some
      > > > > better looking garb in my closet.
      > > > >
      > > > > If instead I knew I was going to be at an SCA
      > > event
      > > > > where I wasn't doing a sport, like fencing, I
      > > would be
      > > > > more interested in wearing a corset for Ren garb
      > > > > because it would have time during the day to
      > > warm
      > > > > against my torso and stretch/flex a smidge. It
      > > would
      > > > > also affect my posture and movement (plus those
      > > hoop
      > > > > skirts under the gown are fun to swirl around).
      > > > >
      > > > > If you aren't in a rush to make the tudor gown
      > > you
      > > > > could try making a corset and then wear it under
      > > your
      > > > > regular street clothes to a dance practice. That
      > > would
      > > > > give you a chance to see how you move in it and
      > > to
      > > > > find out if it pulls or pinches at all. If the
      > > thought
      > > > > of making the tudor gown sounds like enough work
      > > then
      > > > > add some light support in it and skip the corset
      > > (you
      > > > > could leave a generous seam allowance in case
      > > you want
      > > > > to modify the gown later if the material won't
      > > mark
      > > > > permanently along the seam lines).
      > > > >
      > > > > If you are using a dress dummy that is a close
      > > > > approximation of "you" then you may want to
      > > corset it
      > > > > when working on future tudor or ren gowns. I'm
      > > not an
      > > > > experienced sewer but even I know that wearing
      > > > > something underneath that changes your shape and
      > > > > posture will have some effect on fitting an
      > > > > overgarment.
      > > > >
      > > > > If you attend Birka you will most likely find
      > > corset
      > > > > materials being sold by some merchants and check
      > > out
      > > > > garb made by others.
      > > > >
      > > > > Bryn
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- Cate <kelley@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > > What are the thoughts on a corset for under a
      > > Tudor
      > > > > > gown? Yes? No?
      > > > > > Maybe?
      > > > > > Cate
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > > > > >
      > > > > > (Yahoo! ID required)
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > mailto:EndeweardeTailor-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > >
      > === message truncated ===
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • L T
      Hi, I m not that experienced with sewing but I have read about different techniques and pay attention to what people are doing to make ren and italian garb.
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 21, 2007
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        Hi,

        I'm not that experienced with sewing but I have read
        about different techniques and pay attention to what
        people are doing to make ren and italian garb. I've
        had to figure for myself how to sew based on what I
        read and try.

        Here is an example of the drapery tape
        http://www.beaconfabric.com/vindex.html?cat221.htm

        It would likely be found in the drapery section of a
        sewing store.

        Here are some different types of pleats
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleat

        Cartridge pleating was used in period (from what I
        understand).

        Here is an article on cartridge pleating (by hand)
        http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cartpleat/

        and another
        http://www.extremecostuming.com/articles/cartridgepleating101.html

        You can see why some people choose to use a modern
        convenience like drapery tape to have a pleated effect
        without worrying exactly what type of pleat is used -
        it gets the job done.

        I thought it was worth mentioning that short cut
        sewing trick if it would make it easier for you to
        decide how to construct your garment. I will probably
        try using the pleating tape next time I make a
        gathered skirt if I don't want to try cartridge
        pleating by hand.

        Bryn

        --- Cate <kelley@...> wrote:

        > I was looking at some by Holbein and others of King
        > Henry's
        > daughters and wives.
        >
        > Your skill at sewing far exceeds mine. I need a
        > dictionary just to
        > understand what you're referring to, Bryn. I have
        > to keep it very
        > simple, but thanks. :-)
        > Cate



        ____________________________________________________________________________________
        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
        http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
      • Wendi
        Hi, I never thought of drapery tape, very interesting. I used the Costume Connection Inc. Early Tudor pattern for my dress. They try to be very accurate.
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 21, 2007
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          Hi,
          I never thought of drapery tape, very interesting.

          I used the Costume Connection Inc. Early Tudor pattern for my dress.
          They try to be very accurate. Either waist styles are fine, but I
          like the waist to come to a point, because I find it more slimming and
          pleasing to my eye. It is also the more common style, unless you are
          in Northern Europe, say Germany, Sweden, Finland, etc. The pleating
          from the back stops several inches before the opening in the center of
          the top skirt to make the sides of the opening lie flat. Use a very
          wide fold to give the opening more weight, some ladies also use a wide
          trim. The opening should reveal the underskirt which is often a
          sumptuous brocade to contrast with a velvet gown, or vis-versa, which
          may be matched to an under-sleeve, should you choose that style.

          There are many wonderful sleeve styles, you know how much I love
          sleeves! My pattern has four different styles and you are welcomed to
          borrow it. Just don't follow the two-colored bodice, Tudor style had
          solid bodices, unless you were say, German and had those nifty laces.

          Remember that you need enough fabric in your underskirt to be able to
          get over your hoop skirt. Since the top skirt is usually split, it's
          not so much of an issue.


          I have a book that Margaret lent me that has lots of amazing pictures
          on Tudor gowns. I'll try to remember to bring the book and my pattern
          to dance practice. I would love to see what kind of underskirt
          material you will use, you could be so dramatic. Here's a trick used
          by many Tudor ladies, only use your sumptuous accent material on the
          part of the underskirt that shows through, the rest is hidden, so can
          be any less expensive fabric. Don't forget the trim around the
          neck-line.

          Gwen.

          --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, L T <ladybrynmillar@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > I'm not that experienced with sewing but I have read
          > about different techniques and pay attention to what
          > people are doing to make ren and italian garb. I've
          > had to figure for myself how to sew based on what I
          > read and try.
          >
          > Here is an example of the drapery tape
          > http://www.beaconfabric.com/vindex.html?cat221.htm
          >
          > It would likely be found in the drapery section of a
          > sewing store.
          >
          > Here are some different types of pleats
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleat
          >
          > Cartridge pleating was used in period (from what I
          > understand).
          >
          > Here is an article on cartridge pleating (by hand)
          > http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cartpleat/
          >
          > and another
          > http://www.extremecostuming.com/articles/cartridgepleating101.html
          >
          > You can see why some people choose to use a modern
          > convenience like drapery tape to have a pleated effect
          > without worrying exactly what type of pleat is used -
          > it gets the job done.
          >
          > I thought it was worth mentioning that short cut
          > sewing trick if it would make it easier for you to
          > decide how to construct your garment. I will probably
          > try using the pleating tape next time I make a
          > gathered skirt if I don't want to try cartridge
          > pleating by hand.
          >
          > Bryn
          >
          > --- Cate <kelley@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I was looking at some by Holbein and others of King
          > > Henry's
          > > daughters and wives.
          > >
          > > Your skill at sewing far exceeds mine. I need a
          > > dictionary just to
          > > understand what you're referring to, Bryn. I have
          > > to keep it very
          > > simple, but thanks. :-)
          > > Cate
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ____________________________________________________________________________________
          > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
          > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
          >
        • Cate
          It would be intersting to see the book - more pictures never hurts - and I like your suggestion about minimizing the amount of nice fabric needed for the
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 21, 2007
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            It would be intersting to see the book - more pictures never hurts -
            and I like your suggestion about minimizing the amount of "nice"
            fabric needed for the underskirt, that helps, too.

            I hope you have fun singing on Sunday - it sounds like it will be
            neat.
            Cate

            --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Wendi"
            <lobster_kelaguen@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi,
            > I never thought of drapery tape, very interesting.
            >
            > I used the Costume Connection Inc. Early Tudor pattern for my
            dress.
            > They try to be very accurate. Either waist styles are fine, but I
            > like the waist to come to a point, because I find it more slimming
            and
            > pleasing to my eye. It is also the more common style, unless you
            are
            > in Northern Europe, say Germany, Sweden, Finland, etc. The pleating
            > from the back stops several inches before the opening in the center
            of
            > the top skirt to make the sides of the opening lie flat. Use a very
            > wide fold to give the opening more weight, some ladies also use a
            wide
            > trim. The opening should reveal the underskirt which is often a
            > sumptuous brocade to contrast with a velvet gown, or vis-versa,
            which
            > may be matched to an under-sleeve, should you choose that style.
            >
            > There are many wonderful sleeve styles, you know how much I love
            > sleeves! My pattern has four different styles and you are welcomed
            to
            > borrow it. Just don't follow the two-colored bodice, Tudor style
            had
            > solid bodices, unless you were say, German and had those nifty
            laces.
            >
            > Remember that you need enough fabric in your underskirt to be able
            to
            > get over your hoop skirt. Since the top skirt is usually split,
            it's
            > not so much of an issue.
            >
            >
            > I have a book that Margaret lent me that has lots of amazing
            pictures
            > on Tudor gowns. I'll try to remember to bring the book and my
            pattern
            > to dance practice. I would love to see what kind of underskirt
            > material you will use, you could be so dramatic. Here's a trick
            used
            > by many Tudor ladies, only use your sumptuous accent material on the
            > part of the underskirt that shows through, the rest is hidden, so
            can
            > be any less expensive fabric. Don't forget the trim around the
            > neck-line.
            >
            > Gwen.
            >
            > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, L T <ladybrynmillar@>
            wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > I'm not that experienced with sewing but I have read
            > > about different techniques and pay attention to what
            > > people are doing to make ren and italian garb. I've
            > > had to figure for myself how to sew based on what I
            > > read and try.
            > >
            > > Here is an example of the drapery tape
            > > http://www.beaconfabric.com/vindex.html?cat221.htm
            > >
            > > It would likely be found in the drapery section of a
            > > sewing store.
            > >
            > > Here are some different types of pleats
            > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleat
            > >
            > > Cartridge pleating was used in period (from what I
            > > understand).
            > >
            > > Here is an article on cartridge pleating (by hand)
            > > http://www.elizabethancostume.net/cartpleat/
            > >
            > > and another
            > > http://www.extremecostuming.com/articles/cartridgepleating101.html
            > >
            > > You can see why some people choose to use a modern
            > > convenience like drapery tape to have a pleated effect
            > > without worrying exactly what type of pleat is used -
            > > it gets the job done.
            > >
            > > I thought it was worth mentioning that short cut
            > > sewing trick if it would make it easier for you to
            > > decide how to construct your garment. I will probably
            > > try using the pleating tape next time I make a
            > > gathered skirt if I don't want to try cartridge
            > > pleating by hand.
            > >
            > > Bryn
            > >
            > > --- Cate <kelley@> wrote:
            > >
            > > > I was looking at some by Holbein and others of King
            > > > Henry's
            > > > daughters and wives.
            > > >
            > > > Your skill at sewing far exceeds mine. I need a
            > > > dictionary just to
            > > > understand what you're referring to, Bryn. I have
            > > > to keep it very
            > > > simple, but thanks. :-)
            > > > Cate
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            ______________________________________________________________________
            ______________
            > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
            > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
            > >
            >
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