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research on mid-eastern, Ottoman SCA dress

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  • Wendi
    Hi, I ve been doing more research on Ottoman, Turkish, Persian, mid-eastern dress as it relates to SCA and belly dancing. Sounds like a good name for a term
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 14, 2007
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      Hi,
      I've been doing more research on Ottoman, Turkish, Persian,
      mid-eastern dress as it relates to SCA and belly dancing. Sounds like
      a good name for a term paper. Anyway, I found some good sites and
      thought in case others were interested, I'd post some.

      http://www.bdancer.com/history/BDhist3.html
      This site is a good resource for dancing costumes throughout the
      orient and throughout the ages. It also talks about fabric, color,
      fit, etc. It is an overview that could really be helpful for those
      trying to narrow down their choices. I just wish they had more
      detailed pictures and references.

      http://www.mindspring.com/~whill/Handouts/yelek.asim.html
      This site describes how to make a Ghawazee coat, which is actually a
      yelek or entari (antari) if you want to be period. I like how this
      site treats the subject of SCA and ghawazee coat wearing mid-eastern
      personas, who are trying to figure out what to dance in. It makes a
      connection between what is and is not period, while providing
      instructions on making a more period set of clothing that can still be
      used for dance.

      http://www.geocities.com/anahita_whitehorse/ottofemcloth.html
      This is my favorite, because it has detailed pictures. This site does
      a great job of outlining what the Ottoman's wore by describing each
      layer and using proper terms.

      http://www.island.net/~doerksen/dancpic2.html
      This site shows an SCA dancer in very commonly accepted dancer garb.
      It makes for nice inspiration, and I would like to hear other people's
      opinions. In my opinion, if she was wearing a sash instead of a coin
      belt, this would be something I might like to wear.


      Like everything else, there is a lot of information out there and some
      of it is conflicting. For example, harem pants... I found many
      references saying that they were just the thing to wear under a
      Persian or Turkish coat and chemise.

      Another site says, after careful exploration, she is not confident
      that harem pants are period. Shalvar pants are well documented, but
      harem pants could either be loose pants tucked into boots, or
      something depicted in art as genie wear, and not typical to actual
      people. Of course, she would like to see people not just be Ottoman,
      or mid-eastern, but know specifically what people their garb
      represents. Which is a somewhat lofty ambition for those just
      starting out.

      Personally, I was thinking I have some great striped fabric that would
      make a nice fitted Ottoman coat. It's 15+ year old fabric and about
      time I do something with it.

      Hope this is of some help to someone out there, feel free to add to it.

      Gwen.
    • Kelley
      Gwen - You ve been busy with your research. Do you think the coat will be cool? I was VERY close to melting at GNEW last year in one layer. :) Cate ... like
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 17, 2007
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        Gwen -
        You've been busy with your research. Do you think the coat will be
        cool? I was VERY close to melting at GNEW last year in one
        layer. :)
        Cate

        --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Wendi"
        <lobster_kelaguen@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        > I've been doing more research on Ottoman, Turkish, Persian,
        > mid-eastern dress as it relates to SCA and belly dancing. Sounds
        like
        > a good name for a term paper. Anyway, I found some good sites and
        > thought in case others were interested, I'd post some.
        >
        > http://www.bdancer.com/history/BDhist3.html
        > This site is a good resource for dancing costumes throughout the
        > orient and throughout the ages. It also talks about fabric, color,
        > fit, etc. It is an overview that could really be helpful for those
        > trying to narrow down their choices. I just wish they had more
        > detailed pictures and references.
        >
        > http://www.mindspring.com/~whill/Handouts/yelek.asim.html
        > This site describes how to make a Ghawazee coat, which is actually
        a
        > yelek or entari (antari) if you want to be period. I like how this
        > site treats the subject of SCA and ghawazee coat wearing mid-
        eastern
        > personas, who are trying to figure out what to dance in. It makes a
        > connection between what is and is not period, while providing
        > instructions on making a more period set of clothing that can
        still be
        > used for dance.
        >
        > http://www.geocities.com/anahita_whitehorse/ottofemcloth.html
        > This is my favorite, because it has detailed pictures. This site
        does
        > a great job of outlining what the Ottoman's wore by describing each
        > layer and using proper terms.
        >
        > http://www.island.net/~doerksen/dancpic2.html
        > This site shows an SCA dancer in very commonly accepted dancer
        garb.
        > It makes for nice inspiration, and I would like to hear other
        people's
        > opinions. In my opinion, if she was wearing a sash instead of a
        coin
        > belt, this would be something I might like to wear.
        >
        >
        > Like everything else, there is a lot of information out there and
        some
        > of it is conflicting. For example, harem pants... I found many
        > references saying that they were just the thing to wear under a
        > Persian or Turkish coat and chemise.
        >
        > Another site says, after careful exploration, she is not confident
        > that harem pants are period. Shalvar pants are well documented,
        but
        > harem pants could either be loose pants tucked into boots, or
        > something depicted in art as genie wear, and not typical to actual
        > people. Of course, she would like to see people not just be
        Ottoman,
        > or mid-eastern, but know specifically what people their garb
        > represents. Which is a somewhat lofty ambition for those just
        > starting out.
        >
        > Personally, I was thinking I have some great striped fabric that
        would
        > make a nice fitted Ottoman coat. It's 15+ year old fabric and
        about
        > time I do something with it.
        >
        > Hope this is of some help to someone out there, feel free to add
        to it.
        >
        > Gwen.
        >
      • Wendi
        Cate, I m so worried about that! I keep trying to figure out cool garb. The Ottoman garb has just as many layers as the garb I wore last time, except the
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 17, 2007
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          Cate,
          I'm so worried about that! I keep trying to figure out cool garb.
          The Ottoman garb has just as many layers as the garb I wore last time,
          except the jacket is much longer than a bodice. Last time I went to
          GNEW, I felt much the same as you, sweltering.

          Tunics seem to be the lightest, but I just don't like the look for
          myself. I tried a cotehardie with fake undersleeves, but the buttons
          are driving me mad! I was thinking of a modified (one layer) bliaut in
          a natural fabric? Honestly, the Vietnamese garb was the best for hot
          weather, but the style I like is a bit out of period. Keith said
          since most people don't care about Vietnamese garb, I could probably
          get away with it, but I don't know.

          It's so hard to do period comfortably when our weather is so much
          hotter than it was back then. Too bad I can't bring myself to wear a
          toga.

          How about everyone else, any advice for keeping cool?

          Gwen.


          --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Kelley" <kelley_rambo@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Gwen -
          > You've been busy with your research. Do you think the coat will be
          > cool? I was VERY close to melting at GNEW last year in one
          > layer. :)
          > Cate
          >
          > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Wendi"
          > <lobster_kelaguen@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Hi,
          > > I've been doing more research on Ottoman, Turkish, Persian,
          > > mid-eastern dress as it relates to SCA and belly dancing. Sounds
          > like
          > > a good name for a term paper. Anyway, I found some good sites and
          > > thought in case others were interested, I'd post some.
          > >
          > > http://www.bdancer.com/history/BDhist3.html
          > > This site is a good resource for dancing costumes throughout the
          > > orient and throughout the ages. It also talks about fabric, color,
          > > fit, etc. It is an overview that could really be helpful for those
          > > trying to narrow down their choices. I just wish they had more
          > > detailed pictures and references.
          > >
          > > http://www.mindspring.com/~whill/Handouts/yelek.asim.html
          > > This site describes how to make a Ghawazee coat, which is actually
          > a
          > > yelek or entari (antari) if you want to be period. I like how this
          > > site treats the subject of SCA and ghawazee coat wearing mid-
          > eastern
          > > personas, who are trying to figure out what to dance in. It makes a
          > > connection between what is and is not period, while providing
          > > instructions on making a more period set of clothing that can
          > still be
          > > used for dance.
          > >
          > > http://www.geocities.com/anahita_whitehorse/ottofemcloth.html
          > > This is my favorite, because it has detailed pictures. This site
          > does
          > > a great job of outlining what the Ottoman's wore by describing each
          > > layer and using proper terms.
          > >
          > > http://www.island.net/~doerksen/dancpic2.html
          > > This site shows an SCA dancer in very commonly accepted dancer
          > garb.
          > > It makes for nice inspiration, and I would like to hear other
          > people's
          > > opinions. In my opinion, if she was wearing a sash instead of a
          > coin
          > > belt, this would be something I might like to wear.
          > >
          > >
          > > Like everything else, there is a lot of information out there and
          > some
          > > of it is conflicting. For example, harem pants... I found many
          > > references saying that they were just the thing to wear under a
          > > Persian or Turkish coat and chemise.
          > >
          > > Another site says, after careful exploration, she is not confident
          > > that harem pants are period. Shalvar pants are well documented,
          > but
          > > harem pants could either be loose pants tucked into boots, or
          > > something depicted in art as genie wear, and not typical to actual
          > > people. Of course, she would like to see people not just be
          > Ottoman,
          > > or mid-eastern, but know specifically what people their garb
          > > represents. Which is a somewhat lofty ambition for those just
          > > starting out.
          > >
          > > Personally, I was thinking I have some great striped fabric that
          > would
          > > make a nice fitted Ottoman coat. It's 15+ year old fabric and
          > about
          > > time I do something with it.
          > >
          > > Hope this is of some help to someone out there, feel free to add
          > to it.
          > >
          > > Gwen.
          > >
          >
        • Kelley
          Gwen - Frieda wore something toga-ish last year. I wore a cotehardie last year with lacing - I felt like taking scissors to it, I was so hot and couldn t get
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 18, 2007
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            Gwen -

            Frieda wore something toga-ish last year. I wore a cotehardie last
            year with lacing - I felt like taking scissors to it, I was so hot
            and couldn't get out of it fast enough! I have thought about putting
            a zipper in the back and leaving the lacing in the front. At least
            it would look somewhat period and I could get out of it easier. This
            year, if I get too hot, I'm going to the little store down the road
            to cool down - it's air conditioned!

            Keith might be right about the Vietnamese garb. What makes it out of
            period? I can't imagine their traditional clothing has changed much
            in 400 years.

            The clothing at that online store you sent the link to looks really
            nice. I was surprised to see so many styles all looking rather
            authentic.

            Cate

            --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Wendi"
            <lobster_kelaguen@...> wrote:
            >
            > Cate,
            > I'm so worried about that! I keep trying to figure out cool garb.
            > The Ottoman garb has just as many layers as the garb I wore last
            time,
            > except the jacket is much longer than a bodice. Last time I went to
            > GNEW, I felt much the same as you, sweltering.
            >
            > Tunics seem to be the lightest, but I just don't like the look for
            > myself. I tried a cotehardie with fake undersleeves, but the
            buttons
            > are driving me mad! I was thinking of a modified (one layer) bliaut
            in
            > a natural fabric? Honestly, the Vietnamese garb was the best for
            hot
            > weather, but the style I like is a bit out of period. Keith said
            > since most people don't care about Vietnamese garb, I could probably
            > get away with it, but I don't know.
            >
            > It's so hard to do period comfortably when our weather is so much
            > hotter than it was back then. Too bad I can't bring myself to wear
            a
            > toga.
            >
            > How about everyone else, any advice for keeping cool?
            >
            > Gwen.
            >
            >
            > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Kelley" <kelley_rambo@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Gwen -
            > > You've been busy with your research. Do you think the coat will
            be
            > > cool? I was VERY close to melting at GNEW last year in one
            > > layer. :)
            > > Cate
            > >
            > > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Wendi"
            > > <lobster_kelaguen@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hi,
            > > > I've been doing more research on Ottoman, Turkish, Persian,
            > > > mid-eastern dress as it relates to SCA and belly dancing.
            Sounds
            > > like
            > > > a good name for a term paper. Anyway, I found some good sites
            and
            > > > thought in case others were interested, I'd post some.
            > > >
            > > > http://www.bdancer.com/history/BDhist3.html
            > > > This site is a good resource for dancing costumes throughout the
            > > > orient and throughout the ages. It also talks about fabric,
            color,
            > > > fit, etc. It is an overview that could really be helpful for
            those
            > > > trying to narrow down their choices. I just wish they had more
            > > > detailed pictures and references.
            > > >
            > > > http://www.mindspring.com/~whill/Handouts/yelek.asim.html
            > > > This site describes how to make a Ghawazee coat, which is
            actually
            > > a
            > > > yelek or entari (antari) if you want to be period. I like how
            this
            > > > site treats the subject of SCA and ghawazee coat wearing mid-
            > > eastern
            > > > personas, who are trying to figure out what to dance in. It
            makes a
            > > > connection between what is and is not period, while providing
            > > > instructions on making a more period set of clothing that can
            > > still be
            > > > used for dance.
            > > >
            > > > http://www.geocities.com/anahita_whitehorse/ottofemcloth.html
            > > > This is my favorite, because it has detailed pictures. This
            site
            > > does
            > > > a great job of outlining what the Ottoman's wore by describing
            each
            > > > layer and using proper terms.
            > > >
            > > > http://www.island.net/~doerksen/dancpic2.html
            > > > This site shows an SCA dancer in very commonly accepted dancer
            > > garb.
            > > > It makes for nice inspiration, and I would like to hear other
            > > people's
            > > > opinions. In my opinion, if she was wearing a sash instead of
            a
            > > coin
            > > > belt, this would be something I might like to wear.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Like everything else, there is a lot of information out there
            and
            > > some
            > > > of it is conflicting. For example, harem pants... I found many
            > > > references saying that they were just the thing to wear under a
            > > > Persian or Turkish coat and chemise.
            > > >
            > > > Another site says, after careful exploration, she is not
            confident
            > > > that harem pants are period. Shalvar pants are well
            documented,
            > > but
            > > > harem pants could either be loose pants tucked into boots, or
            > > > something depicted in art as genie wear, and not typical to
            actual
            > > > people. Of course, she would like to see people not just be
            > > Ottoman,
            > > > or mid-eastern, but know specifically what people their garb
            > > > represents. Which is a somewhat lofty ambition for those just
            > > > starting out.
            > > >
            > > > Personally, I was thinking I have some great striped fabric
            that
            > > would
            > > > make a nice fitted Ottoman coat. It's 15+ year old fabric and
            > > about
            > > > time I do something with it.
            > > >
            > > > Hope this is of some help to someone out there, feel free to
            add
            > > to it.
            > > >
            > > > Gwen.
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Doug Saball
            Hi Cate & Gwen, I am in the process of making two sets of garb. One wool for cooler monts and the other linen blend for summer months. These two fabrics are
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 19, 2007
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              Hi Cate & Gwen,

              I am in the process of making two sets of garb. One wool for cooler
              monts and the other linen blend for summer months. These two fabrics
              are what is acceptable for the Living History groups I am in. However,
              cotton can look as effective for SCA events. One of the key things is
              to keep hydrated during summer events.

              Happy stitchen'

              Dougal
            • Kelley
              Dougal - Nice to hear from you. Will you be coming to dance practice on Sunday? :-) Thanks for the fabric suggestions. Cate ... However, ... is
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 19, 2007
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                Dougal -
                Nice to hear from you. Will you be coming to dance practice on
                Sunday? :-)
                Thanks for the fabric suggestions.
                Cate

                --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Saball"
                <dr_douglittle@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Cate & Gwen,
                >
                > I am in the process of making two sets of garb. One wool for cooler
                > monts and the other linen blend for summer months. These two fabrics
                > are what is acceptable for the Living History groups I am in.
                However,
                > cotton can look as effective for SCA events. One of the key things
                is
                > to keep hydrated during summer events.
                >
                > Happy stitchen'
                >
                > Dougal
                >
              • Wendi
                Hello Dougal, Do come to dance, we re garbing up! I ll probably choose something reminiscent in an unauthentic fabric or maybe something more traditional.
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 19, 2007
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                  Hello Dougal,
                  Do come to dance, we're garbing up! I'll probably choose something
                  reminiscent in an unauthentic fabric or maybe something more
                  traditional. Either way, I think my Tudor garb may knock people down
                  with a mad combo of heavy sleeves and hoops, so it's staying at home.

                  I actually did GNEW in all linen chemises and skirts with a cotton
                  bodice (I will admit to two non-cotton bodices). I also had a nice
                  wide brimmed hat, but I still kept wanting to rip off my skirt, and
                  ended up hiking my skirts rather inelegantly to promote air-flow.
                  When I simply couldn't stand it anymore, I volunteered to take the
                  kids swimming. I think a shorter chemise might have helped with a
                  less full skirt.


                  Cate, Just 'cause ya asked...
                  The Vietnamese ensemble is well-documented for 300 years, and it was
                  said to have been patterned after an earlier outfit two sisters wore
                  when riding into war on an elephant. Very neat. Anyway, it is a
                  Vietnamese tradition not to emulate people who have had great honor.
                  So, no one was to wear this outfit in order to honor the sisters.
                  It's the same with very famous names of heroes. Sort of like the name
                  Bjorn in Sweden is not to be used, due to the popular singer.

                  Anyway, I can get the color, the material, the pants, the head wear,
                  and the basic shape all relatively authentic. The modern differences
                  have to do with fit and shoulder seam placement. I guess it would be
                  the equivalent of using a modern pattern that may have darts for a
                  Tudor gown which would not.

                  There is a part of me that says, hey, there are lots of mentions of
                  different ethnic garbs throughout the regions and those sisters had to
                  get it from somewhere...

                  The more well-documented medieval Vietnamese garb consisted of the
                  same soft wide legged pants (or optional skirt), and head wear, but
                  with a five paneled top, instead of the two panel design that I like.
                  The neck line was also different with a sort of under layer that
                  resembled a halter top.

                  So, what do you think? Can I get away with it?
                  Gwen.


                  --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Kelley" <kelley_rambo@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Dougal -
                  > Nice to hear from you. Will you be coming to dance practice on
                  > Sunday? :-)
                  > Thanks for the fabric suggestions.
                  > Cate
                  >
                  > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Saball"
                  > <dr_douglittle@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Cate & Gwen,
                  > >
                  > > I am in the process of making two sets of garb. One wool for cooler
                  > > monts and the other linen blend for summer months. These two fabrics
                  > > are what is acceptable for the Living History groups I am in.
                  > However,
                  > > cotton can look as effective for SCA events. One of the key things
                  > is
                  > > to keep hydrated during summer events.
                  > >
                  > > Happy stitchen'
                  > >
                  > > Dougal
                  > >
                  >
                • L T
                  ... I have one comment.. have you ever been to Pennsic and seen what the Tuchux women wear? (leather bikinis, sometimes with bits of fur) You can wear anything
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 19, 2007
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                    --- Wendi <lobster_kelaguen@...> wrote:

                    > The more well-documented medieval Vietnamese garb
                    > consisted of the same soft wide legged pants
                    > (or optional skirt), and head wear, but
                    > with a five paneled top, instead of the two panel
                    > design that I like. The neck line was also
                    > different with a sort of under layer that
                    > resembled a halter top.
                    >
                    > So, what do you think? Can I get away with it?
                    > Gwen.

                    I have one comment.. have you ever been to Pennsic and
                    seen what the Tuchux women wear? (leather bikinis,
                    sometimes with bits of fur)

                    You can wear anything you want <smile>.

                    Bryn

                    PS Asian garb is becoming more popular. You may have a
                    very nice outfit for warm weather if you wear the
                    Vietnamese garb.



                    ____________________________________________________________________________________
                    8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                    with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
                    http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
                  • Wendi
                    I appreciate that Bryn, I ve never been to a Pennsic, and I have to admire the bravery of anyone willing to wear a leather bikini. I know I brought up this
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 19, 2007
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                      I appreciate that Bryn,
                      I've never been to a Pennsic, and I have to admire the bravery of
                      anyone willing to wear a leather bikini. I know I brought up this
                      topic (warm weather garb) a long while ago and someone suggested a
                      garb style that was topless. Then again, Egyptian dancers just wore a
                      string of beads. I know it's just where people choose to draw the
                      line as to what they wear and feel comfortable in. I'm probably doing
                      way too much worrying for something that matters very little, but I
                      enjoy the research. Just call me obsessively curious.

                      Gwen.

                      --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, L T <ladybrynmillar@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > --- Wendi <lobster_kelaguen@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > The more well-documented medieval Vietnamese garb
                      > > consisted of the same soft wide legged pants
                      > > (or optional skirt), and head wear, but
                      > > with a five paneled top, instead of the two panel
                      > > design that I like. The neck line was also
                      > > different with a sort of under layer that
                      > > resembled a halter top.
                      > >
                      > > So, what do you think? Can I get away with it?
                      > > Gwen.
                      >
                      > I have one comment.. have you ever been to Pennsic and
                      > seen what the Tuchux women wear? (leather bikinis,
                      > sometimes with bits of fur)
                      >
                      > You can wear anything you want <smile>.
                      >
                      > Bryn
                      >
                      > PS Asian garb is becoming more popular. You may have a
                      > very nice outfit for warm weather if you wear the
                      > Vietnamese garb.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      ____________________________________________________________________________________
                      > 8:00? 8:25? 8:40? Find a flick in no time
                      > with the Yahoo! Search movie showtime shortcut.
                      > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#news
                      >
                    • Kelley
                      ... I would think so. If you make it out of a lightweight material, it might even be cool enough (otherwise, we can both head down to the store to cool off
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 20, 2007
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                        > The more well-documented medieval Vietnamese garb consisted of the
                        > same soft wide legged pants (or optional skirt), and head wear, but
                        > with a five paneled top, instead of the two panel design that I like.
                        > The neck line was also different with a sort of under layer that
                        > resembled a halter top.
                        >
                        > So, what do you think? Can I get away with it?
                        > Gwen.

                        I would think so. If you make it out of a lightweight material, it
                        might even be cool enough (otherwise, we can both head down to the
                        store to cool off :-)
                        Cate
                      • Doug Saball
                        Hi Cate, My artheritus acts up in the cold weather and Mary doesn t like to dance without me. Martin and his girlfriend parted last fall so he is not into
                        Message 11 of 12 , Mar 20, 2007
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                          Hi Cate,

                          My artheritus acts up in the cold weather and Mary doesn't like to
                          dance without me. Martin and his girlfriend parted last fall so he
                          is not into dancing either.

                          Additionaly, we are busy with the kid goats & milking the nanny's.
                          Not to mention that Mary has a 3 year old stud coming to the farm
                          this week sometime. Lots of stuff happening.

                          Dougal

                          --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Kelley" <kelley_rambo@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Dougal -
                          > Nice to hear from you. Will you be coming to dance practice on
                          > Sunday? :-)
                          > Thanks for the fabric suggestions.
                          > Cate
                          >
                        • Kelley
                          Well you will be missed. And Martin does not have to have a partner to dance. We re more than happy to dance with him. :-) Take care, Cate
                          Message 12 of 12 , Mar 22, 2007
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                            Well you will be missed. And Martin does not have to have a partner
                            to dance. We're more than happy to dance with him. :-)
                            Take care,
                            Cate

                            --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Saball"
                            <dr_douglittle@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hi Cate,
                            >
                            > My artheritus acts up in the cold weather and Mary doesn't like to
                            > dance without me. Martin and his girlfriend parted last fall so he
                            > is not into dancing either.
                            >
                            > Additionaly, we are busy with the kid goats & milking the nanny's.
                            > Not to mention that Mary has a 3 year old stud coming to the farm
                            > this week sometime. Lots of stuff happening.
                            >
                            > Dougal
                            >
                            > --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Kelley" <kelley_rambo@>
                            > wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Dougal -
                            > > Nice to hear from you. Will you be coming to dance practice on
                            > > Sunday? :-)
                            > > Thanks for the fabric suggestions.
                            > > Cate
                            > >
                            >
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