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White tippets?

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  • Marge
    Greetings all! Hope everyone is well. I have a few questions and am hoping someone may know the answer or be able to point me in the right direction to find
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 12, 2006
      Greetings all!
      Hope everyone is well.

      I have a few questions and am hoping someone may know the answer or
      be able to point me in the right direction to find the answers.

      Tippets.

      Were they always white? I have seen several comments to that
      effect, although I know that it is not the case in SCA garb. And if
      so, do they mean the lining or the whole thing? I've also read that
      they were fur. Does anyone know?

      Also, did tippets serve some function at some point or were they
      just an ascetic thing? (This question comes up frequently in our
      house.)

      I have spent way too much time trying to find this stuff out today
      and the more I read, the more questions I have. I get very
      aggravated when it seems like a simple question, yet I can't seem to
      find tha answer.

      Now I need to go finish reading The Age of Bede for class.
      Thanks for the assistance.
      Marge
    • ladybrynmillar
      ... if ... that ... I think the question really is - what s a tippet? I did a quick search and found several different costume descriptions, either by written
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 13, 2006
        --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "Marge" <jorie6568@...>
        wrote:

        > Tippets.
        >
        > Were they always white? I have seen several comments to that
        > effect, although I know that it is not the case in SCA garb. And
        if
        > so, do they mean the lining or the whole thing? I've also read
        that
        > they were fur. Does anyone know?

        I think the question really is - what's a tippet? I did a quick
        search and found several different costume descriptions, either by
        written or image description. The only commonality I can see
        between these clothing items is that tippet roughly interprets to be
        some type of dangly thing as part of your overall costume. Let me
        get to that in a second.

        I suspect the reference to white tippets may be referring to this
        type of definition I found at
        http://www.holycross.edu/departments/visarts/projects/kempe/text/glos
        s2.html

        "hoods with the tippets A loose head-covering, with a cape
        attached, was worn by both men and women in the late Middle Ages. A
        tippet, a long streamer of white material, was attached to the hood
        of noble or wealthy women."

        This might be the context in which posters to SCA-Garb are speaking.

        So it would seem that white danglies in the middle ages context seem
        to indicate the social status of the wearer. I would use care in how
        I would display white on my garb since white is a reserved color to
        the chivalry (SCA knights) when worn in a certain context OR is a
        privalege of members of other kingdom orders.

        Most of us who create costumes know that the white belt is reserved
        for knights and avoid anything white/pale colored that is any type
        of belt at or below the waist. In other kingdoms a white baldric or
        a white scarf is used to signify an honor granted by that kingdom.
        So long as the white dangly doesn't appear to resemble these items,
        it would be a nice touch.

        Now, tippet also seems to refer to a type of collar wrap, sometimes
        in fur (or lined in fur) which may have dangly things. Here are
        several types of descriptions of "tippet" (ignoring the fly fishing
        references)

        http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3A+tippet

        I think what needs to be kept in mind is that the meaning of
        costuming terms are relative to the time, country, and sometimes
        gender of the wearer.

        > Also, did tippets serve some function at some point or were they
        > just an ascetic thing? (This question comes up frequently in our
        > house.)

        I've always thought of tippets as decorative extensions from the
        sleeves of middle ages gowns (cotehardies). (see slide 35)
        http://employees.oneonta.edu/angellkg/GOTHIC.HTML

        but apparently you can add a tippet to the end of hood or make
        streamer extensions as part of a collar/mantle thing.

        I guess if I were making a cotehardie womens gown I would add dangly
        streamer extensions at the elbows in a color I found pleasing. I'd
        be careful if I used white that they looked like an integral part of
        the costume rather than an "add on", which is what a baldric or
        scarf looks like to me. I'd also make sure they were worn away from
        my shoulder if long strips of cloth were used (because "white scarf"
        in other kingdoms means highest honor for fencing - the East doesn't
        use this symbol).

        If I get a chance to get to the UMaine library th is week, I'll see
        what the historic costume dictionaries have to say about tippets.

        Always learning a bit more about costuming,
        Bryn
      • Marge
        ... be ... http://www.holycross.edu/departments/visarts/projects/kempe/text/glos ... I couldn t get this link to bring up anything to do with tippets. ... A
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 13, 2006
          --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, "ladybrynmillar"
          <ladybrynmillar@...> wrote:
          > I think the question really is - what's a tippet? I did a quick
          > search and found several different costume descriptions, either by
          > written or image description. The only commonality I can see
          > between these clothing items is that tippet roughly interprets to
          be
          > some type of dangly thing as part of your overall costume. Let me
          > get to that in a second.
          >
          > I suspect the reference to white tippets may be referring to this
          > type of definition I found at
          >
          http://www.holycross.edu/departments/visarts/projects/kempe/text/glos
          > s2.html


          I couldn't get this link to bring up anything to do with tippets.


          >
          > "hoods with the tippets A loose head-covering, with a cape
          > attached, was worn by both men and women in the late Middle Ages.
          A
          > tippet, a long streamer of white material, was attached to the
          hood
          > of noble or wealthy women."

          I also found a reference to the liripipe on a hood sometimes being
          called a tippet. And perhaps this is where the confusion is coming
          from.

          >
          > So it would seem that white danglies in the middle ages context
          seem
          > to indicate the social status of the wearer. I would use care in
          how
          > I would display white on my garb


          Point taken...

          >
          > Now, tippet also seems to refer to a type of collar wrap,
          sometimes
          > in fur (or lined in fur) which may have dangly things. Here are
          > several types of descriptions of "tippet" (ignoring the fly
          fishing
          > references)
          >
          > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=define%3A+tippet

          I hadn't seen the collar thing, (but I found a lot of fly fishing
          references.) Must be this is where the fur is coming in...



          > I've always thought of tippets as decorative extensions from the
          > sleeves of middle ages gowns (cotehardies). (see slide 35)
          > http://employees.oneonta.edu/angellkg/GOTHIC.HTML

          > Bryn

          That is what I thought too. The other day I was talking to someone
          who insisted that tippets on sleeves were ALWAYS white, and she
          seems to sew quite a lot of garb. I figured she might know more
          about it than I do. I definitely do not want white tippets. (Put
          white on me and I'm a dirt magnet--not to mention having little
          kids.)

          Thanks a lot for the info, Bryn. And I'd appreciate anything anyone
          else has to offer on the subject...

          Marge
        • Kelley
          There was a woman at Birka who had white tippets on her sleeves. Though, it seemed the way she made them was to create a band going around her arm and the
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 14, 2006
            There was a woman at Birka who had white tippets on her sleeves.
            Though, it seemed the way she made them was to create a band going
            around her arm and the tippet attached to the wide band (2-3" wide).
            That way, I assume, she could take them off if she needed to and put
            them back on to look cool (I think that's all they're for, really,
            especially if you're doing anything like cooking or sheep chores, they
            would really get in the way then). I thought it was a neat idea and
            may make a pair of tippets some time.

            Right now I'm into hats. :-)

            Cate
          • jorie6568@yahoo.com
            From what I ve read, detachable tippets aren t regarded as period. Seems they should be part of the sleeve. (But then, what do I know?) I ve been checking
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 14, 2006
              From what I've read, detachable tippets aren't
              regarded as "period." Seems they should be part of
              the sleeve. (But then, what do I know?)

              I've been checking out accessories of all sorts,
              including hats/headcoverings. Anything to finish off
              "the look." Do you have anything to share regarding
              "toques"?

              How is the lambing going? All done?
              Marge

              --- Kelley <kelley_rambo@...> wrote:

              > There was a woman at Birka who had white tippets on
              > her sleeves.
              > Though, it seemed the way she made them was to
              > create a band going
              > around her arm and the tippet attached to the wide
              > band (2-3" wide).
              > That way, I assume, she could take them off if she
              > needed to and put
              > them back on to look cool (I think that's all
              > they're for, really,
              > especially if you're doing anything like cooking or
              > sheep chores, they
              > would really get in the way then). I thought it was
              > a neat idea and
              > may make a pair of tippets some time.
              >
              > Right now I'm into hats. :-)
              >
              > Cate
              >
              >
              >
              >


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            • Christine Wright
              Good day, eh, ... Yes, that is a good question. It really depends on what period the garb is from. Look at the previous 50 years or so of costuming from
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 14, 2006
                Good day, eh,


                > > I think the question really is - what's a tippet?

                Yes, that is a good question. It really depends on what period the garb is
                from. Look at the previous 50 years or so of costuming from where you want
                to dress. If they used layers, and used to layer two
                tunics/kirtles/whatevers, then the tippet may be the remnant of the sleeve
                of the outer kirtle/tunic/thing. Temperature changes during the medieval
                period led to sort of a mini-Ice age at one point, and everyone had multiple
                layers of clothing. As the temp warmed up again, the layers started going
                away, but vestiges of the layered effect remained. I think this is where
                the sleeve tippet came from. Please remember, I may be horribly
                wrong...especially as I haven't had enough caffeine today.

                I *think* the reason the tippets were white is that the outer layer used to
                be lined in fur...and the tippet was lined to look like that outer sleeve.

                I hope this isn't completely off the wall, and may be helpful.

                -Ysabiau
              • Kelley
                No, Marge, I think you re right in that the tippets weren t meant to be detachable. Though, I thought it looked like an awfully good idea - then you could
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 15, 2006
                  No, Marge, I think you're right in that the tippets weren't meant to
                  be detachable. Though, I thought it looked like an awfully good
                  idea - then you could wear the same dress whether you were dancing or
                  cooking! :-) I'm always into dual-purpose-type things and I think
                  if I had lived during that time period, I'm sure I would have made
                  detachable ones...;)

                  I have a pattern for a toque that I got off from simplicity. I'll
                  email it to the list.

                  Only 11 lambs so far (all cute, of course). Still waiting for more,
                  though....

                  Cate

                  --- In EndeweardeTailor@yahoogroups.com, <jorie6568@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > From what I've read, detachable tippets aren't
                  > regarded as "period." Seems they should be part of
                  > the sleeve. (But then, what do I know?)
                  >
                  > I've been checking out accessories of all sorts,
                  > including hats/headcoverings. Anything to finish off
                  > "the look." Do you have anything to share regarding
                  > "toques"?
                  >
                  > How is the lambing going? All done?
                  > Marge
                  >
                  > --- Kelley <kelley_rambo@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > There was a woman at Birka who had white tippets on
                  > > her sleeves.
                  > > Though, it seemed the way she made them was to
                  > > create a band going
                  > > around her arm and the tippet attached to the wide
                  > > band (2-3" wide).
                  > > That way, I assume, she could take them off if she
                  > > needed to and put
                  > > them back on to look cool (I think that's all
                  > > they're for, really,
                  > > especially if you're doing anything like cooking or
                  > > sheep chores, they
                  > > would really get in the way then). I thought it was
                  > > a neat idea and
                  > > may make a pair of tippets some time.
                  > >
                  > > Right now I'm into hats. :-)
                  > >
                  > > Cate
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
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