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Re: A Little Summer Ragtime Reading

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  • Fred Hoeptner
    Does David Jasen continue to use his fabricated definition of ragtime in the encyclopedia? That is, the one in Rags and Ragtime : Ragtime is a musical
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 1, 2008
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      Does David Jasen continue to use his fabricated definition
      of "ragtime" in the encyclopedia? That is, the one in "Rags and
      Ragtime": "Ragtime is a musical composition for the piano comprising
      three or four sections containing sixteen measures each which
      combines a syncopated melody accompanied by an even, steady, duple
      rhythm." Using this definition he has excluded from the genre, for
      example, Joplin's "The Chrysanthemum," Guy's ragtime waltz "Echoes
      from the Snowball Club," and the entire category of ragtime songs. In
      my opinion none of this accords with traditional usage. On the other
      hand, he has broadened "ragtime" to include the genre which has
      heretofore been known as "novelty piano."

      --- In EliteSyncopations@yahoogroups.com, philharpn@... wrote:
      >
      > I've looked at all of them but was most impressed with the Ragtime
      > encyclopedia. It is a coffee table book (you could put legs on it)
      and discusses
      > individual rags under each composer's name and offers a brief
      analysis -- such as the
      > A strain is similar to the B strain in Maple Leaf Rag, et cetera.
      > From a performing standpoint, this book would be the best.
      >
      > But it depends on your interests.
      >
      > The others offer detailed accounts of events from mostly black
      newspapers of
      > the day, chronologically. Others offer historical background of the
      times
      > (political, economic, civl rights) and are worth looking at. All
      are worthwhile.
      >
      > This rag encyclopedia is about $100 at Amazon and I wanted to check
      it out.
      > So I ordered it from the Michigan library exchange. You order it on
      line and
      > pick it up at your library when you are notified. After I ordered
      the rag
      > encyclopedia, I went wild an ordered all the ones I wanted (about a
      dozen) but
      > didn't already own whose titles I got from the various ragtime web
      sites.
      >
      > I could tell you more, but I've returned them as they were in the
      first batch
      > I ordered. They were all kind of interesting and I scanned through
      them all.
      >
      > If you are a James Scott fan, there is a coffee table book put out
      by the
      > Smithsonian "The Music of James Scott." Amazon offered three used
      copies: your
      > choice $200 each. So I got it from the library exchange. Really an
      excellent
      > book.
      >
      > Hope this helps.
      >
      > Phil Lloyd
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 6/24/08 9:25:48 PM, zero2sixtymarketing@...
      writes:
      >
      >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > I've been perusing Amazon for some summer ragtime reading. There's
      > > some new things out there that looked interesting. They are:
      > >
      > > • Ragtime: An Encyclopedia, Discography, and Sheetography by
      Dave Jasen
      > >
      > > • Ragged but Right: Black Traveling Shows, Coon Songs, And the
      Dark
      > > Pathway to Blues And Jazz (American Made Music Series) by Lynn
      Abbott
      > > and Doug Seroff
      > >
      > > • Out of Sight: The Rise of African American Popular Music,
      1889-1895
      > > (American Made Music Series)
      > >
      > > • Lost Sounds: Blacks and the Birth of the Recording Industry,
      > > 1890-1919 (Music in American Life) by Tim Brooks
      > >
      > > • Listening for Henry Crowder: A Monograph on His Almost Lost
      Music
      > > With the Poems and Music of Henry-music by Anthony Barnett
      > >
      > > Has anyone read these and if so, what did you think? Or heard
      > > anything about them? The Jasen book looks like an expansion of
      Rags
      > > and Ragtime (though I didn't see Trebor's name listed as co-
      author).
      > > I saw the rollography which appeared expanded, though didn't list
      > > recut rolls nor later produced originals (looked like it ended
      after
      > > the Classics of Ragtime series). At least Percy W. is reinstated.
      > >
      > > Appreciate any thoughts folks can share.
      > >
      > > Paul J.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > **************
      > Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
      > fuel-efficient used cars.
      > (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
      >
    • scattalla
      Interlibrary loan definitely beats even Borders coupons, but it s good to own copies of the Abbott and Seroff books if you enjoy them. To be sure I don t
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 6, 2008
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        Interlibrary loan definitely beats even Borders' coupons, but it's
        good to own copies of the Abbott and Seroff books if you enjoy
        them.

        To be sure I don't mislead by my earlier mention of Lornell and
        Laird's _Shreveport Sounds in Black and White_, the book doesn't
        cover ragtime. (The editors missed their chance on that one
        although the LSU-Shreveport Archive included Shreveport ragtime in a
        promotional display for the book--a little misleading.) Nonetheless,
        _Shreveport Sounds_ is an interesting collection of music essays
        with a substantial section on Shreveport and North Louisiana blues.

        Sue


        --- In EliteSyncopations@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Johnson"
        <zero2sixtymarketing@...> wrote:
        >
        > Actually, my copies did come from intra library loan. Thanks to
        the
        > diligence of my local librarian. They were able to get them from a
        > local college's music library. They looked like they'd never been
        > read before either – a pity. Phil had mentioned that he was able
        to
        > get his copies that way as well.
        >
        > Yes Sue, you're right – it's heavy on pre-ragtime. This was what I
        > wanted to read about. However, I was hoping there would be more
        > coverage of minstrel shows and camp meetings. Because these aren't
        > covered in much detail, perhaps due to the publication's target
        > audience, you're still left wondering what's going on in that
        realm.
        >
        > It's great to read early references to cakewalks going on in
        1890. I
        > just read last night about Lew Johnson and a minstrel show he was
        > touring with in California. He later went on to publish some early
        > coon songs in San Francisco. So seeing that connection of someone
        > "transitioning" from minstrel shows to a composer of coon songs was
        > quite interesting. It makes sense too, seeing someone move from
        > minstrel shows into later forms of African American influenced
        > entertainment. Or maybe he wrote them to perform in his shows.
        >
        > That's another great example of the value of presenting the
        > information in this format. Because it's unfiltered, you get to
        see
        > names that you've heard of before and to hear about what they were
        > doing prior to their involvement in ragtime.
        >
        > Thanks for the heads-up on Borders too. I'll probably have to buy
        > them `cuz I don't think there's much hope I'll finish them by the
        due
        > date.
        >
        > Paul Johnson
        >
      • Paul Johnson
        You re right Sue, it is good to own the copies. Given their current price, I wanted to test drive them to see if they were of enough interest to add to my
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 7, 2008
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          You're right Sue, it is good to own the copies. Given their current
          price, I wanted to "test drive" them to see if they were of enough
          interest to add to my personal library. At my current reading rate, I
          may have to resort to purchase anyway.

          Buying books like this also helps to support this kind of important
          research.

          I miswrote in my last email. I said that Lew Johnson was an early San
          Francisco coon song composer. The composer I was thinking of was
          actually named Lee Johnson. Don't know if there's any relationship or
          a misspelling in an article someplace.

          Paul



          --- In EliteSyncopations@yahoogroups.com, "scattalla" <scattalla@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Interlibrary loan definitely beats even Borders' coupons, but it's
          > good to own copies of the Abbott and Seroff books if you enjoy
          > them.
          >
          > To be sure I don't mislead by my earlier mention of Lornell and
          > Laird's _Shreveport Sounds in Black and White_, the book doesn't
          > cover ragtime. (The editors missed their chance on that one
          > although the LSU-Shreveport Archive included Shreveport ragtime in a
          > promotional display for the book--a little misleading.) Nonetheless,
          > _Shreveport Sounds_ is an interesting collection of music essays
          > with a substantial section on Shreveport and North Louisiana blues.
          >
          > Sue
          >
          >
          > --- In EliteSyncopations@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Johnson"
          > <zero2sixtymarketing@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Actually, my copies did come from intra library loan. Thanks to
          > the
          > > diligence of my local librarian. They were able to get them from a
          > > local college's music library. They looked like they'd never been
          > > read before either – a pity. Phil had mentioned that he was able
          > to
          > > get his copies that way as well.
          > >
          > > Yes Sue, you're right – it's heavy on pre-ragtime. This was what I
          > > wanted to read about. However, I was hoping there would be more
          > > coverage of minstrel shows and camp meetings. Because these aren't
          > > covered in much detail, perhaps due to the publication's target
          > > audience, you're still left wondering what's going on in that
          > realm.
          > >
          > > It's great to read early references to cakewalks going on in
          > 1890. I
          > > just read last night about Lew Johnson and a minstrel show he was
          > > touring with in California. He later went on to publish some early
          > > coon songs in San Francisco. So seeing that connection of someone
          > > "transitioning" from minstrel shows to a composer of coon songs was
          > > quite interesting. It makes sense too, seeing someone move from
          > > minstrel shows into later forms of African American influenced
          > > entertainment. Or maybe he wrote them to perform in his shows.
          > >
          > > That's another great example of the value of presenting the
          > > information in this format. Because it's unfiltered, you get to
          > see
          > > names that you've heard of before and to hear about what they were
          > > doing prior to their involvement in ragtime.
          > >
          > > Thanks for the heads-up on Borders too. I'll probably have to buy
          > > them `cuz I don't think there's much hope I'll finish them by the
          > due
          > > date.
          > >
          > > Paul Johnson
          > >
          >
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