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Dragged in ragtime

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  • JohnMaherHome@aol.com
    OK... I ll admit it. My 1899 Steinway upright is a female. That s why I spend so much time with her. There... I said it. - JM! ... From: perfbill@hotmail.com
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 1 7:14 AM
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      OK...
       
      I'll admit it.
       
      My 1899 Steinway upright is a female.
       
      That's why I spend so much time with her.
       
      There... I said it.
       
      - JM! 
       
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: perfbill@...
      To: EliteSyncopations@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Mon, 31 Jul 2006 6:00 PM
      Subject: [EliteSyncopations] Re: dressed in ragtime

      --- In EliteSyncopations@ yahoogroups. com, "Harry Edwards"
      <harry_6711@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Gee Bill you sure seem to know a lot about women's undergarments. Is
      > there something more we should know? If so, please let us know.
      >
      > Harry.

      Comes from the overall study of history in ones particular era. I have
      studied the ragtime era as a whole since the 1970s, which includes
      magazines of the day (be it the Etude, Harpers' Bazzar, Police
      Gazette, or even early women's magazines. I have also helped some
      female players as well as males gather fashions together to fit within
      a certain timeframe. Since for a woman's dress this includes
      petticoats and girdles and the like, I certainly would have run into
      them from time to time. Keep in mind that I have lived with women
      quite a bit, and if you don't know much about their undergarments,
      then how much fun are _you_ having *wink wink* and how attentive are
      you to them really? The more you learn, the better things can become.

      Also note that men wore girdles too, as well as garters, and some wore
      some sort of brassiere (a.k.a. the mansssiere, a.k.a. the bro). I'm
      equally knowlegable from having had the wardrobe assembled, of the
      type of underwear men wore then as well, since some is required to
      really complete the ensemble and make it more (or less) comfortable.
      Just pick up any ladies magazine from the time (which also had ads for
      pianos and sheet music, thus the connection) or a Sears catalog (many
      are still available from various years of the 1890s and 1900s) and
      it's hard to miss.

      In addition, I actually did a study for a paper at one point dealing
      with women's role in the economy as a subset of my thesis of the
      effect of ragtime music on the economy. This included the ratio of
      women's clothing items and the space they occupied in catalogs or
      magazine ads as compared to mens, showing differences from the 1880s
      to the 1910s, which were markedly increased as more women entered the
      workplace and had money to spend of their own. Varieties of
      undergarments are naturally included, and for me to simply overlook
      those due to modesty or homophobic/drag- related concerns brought would
      be reckless and very poor research. So everything gets equal handed
      treatment.

      Is there something else you should know about me? 100% male. Not
      concerned about my masculinity in the least. No problems with female
      relationships. No homophobia. And THOROUGH in my research, which is
      how I have been able to come up with so many finds in the past few
      years, both music and ragtime-era related. To see some of the
      research, you can view my article on Ragtime and the Economy at
      http://www.perfesso rbill.com/ ragtime7. shtml

      I take my research very seriously, even though I have fun with other
      aspects of my life.

      Hope that answers that question without any room for interpretation.

      Finest MANLY RAGards, Bill Edwards


      Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.
    • Larisa Migachyov
      ... Long dresses and ornate hats? For that matter, I d love to dress in a period costume for my next performance. Also, has anyone got any links to
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 1 4:02 PM
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        --- In EliteSyncopations@yahoogroups.com, Rachel Newstead
        > Hi Bryan,
        >
        > I'm kind of interested to know what sort of ensemble the gals typically
        > wear...
        >
        > Rachel

        Long dresses and ornate hats? For that matter, I'd love to dress in a
        period costume for my next performance. Also, has anyone got any
        links to hairstyles of the period? Did women bob their hair then, or
        was it still long?

        LM
      • Todd Robbins
        ... The style of women s clothes and hair change dramatically in the 1910s. Straight line dresses came in and women started bobbing their hair. Irene Castle
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 2 3:50 AM
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          >
          > Long dresses and ornate hats? For that matter, I'd love to dress in a
          > period costume for my next performance. Also, has anyone got any
          > links to hairstyles of the period? Did women bob their hair then, or
          > was it still long?
          >
          > LM
          >
          The style of women's clothes and hair change dramatically in the 1910s.
          Straight line dresses came in and women started bobbing their hair.
          Irene Castle was a BIG influence on the look of the day.


          Todd
        • Rachel Newstead
          Hi, I have a pretty good idea what women ragtimers wore in the past--what I was wondering when I asked my question was this--if the male performers of today
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 2 4:00 AM
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            Hi,

            I have a pretty good idea what women ragtimers wore in the past--what I
            was wondering when I asked my question was this--if the male performers
            of today wear the vests, derby hats, and so on, do the women performing
            now wear some variation of that, or clothing appropriate for the era, or
            modern clothing?

            Rachel
          • Bryan Wright
            Rachel, At least in the Peoria competition, the women typically wear anything from 1890s-style frilly dresses to 1920s flapper outfits complete with sash and
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 2 7:58 AM
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              Rachel,

              At least in the Peoria competition, the women typically wear anything
              from 1890s-style frilly dresses to 1920s "flapper" outfits complete
              with sash and bobbed hair (sometimes with the feather in the hair).
              Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of these costumes and there
              don't seem to be any good ones of the female contestants on the
              Peoria competition website. In this case, a picture really is worth a
              thousand words. Maybe someone else here has photos to share?

              Bryan


              On Aug 2, 2006, at 7:00 AM, Rachel Newstead wrote:

              > Hi,
              >
              > I have a pretty good idea what women ragtimers wore in the past--
              > what I
              > was wondering when I asked my question was this--if the male
              > performers
              > of today wear the vests, derby hats, and so on, do the women
              > performing
              > now wear some variation of that, or clothing appropriate for the
              > era, or
              > modern clothing?
              >
              > Rachel
            • ameyring@rcn.com
              That reminds me - if you look at the sheet music covers, quite a few of them have photos of women in their garb. Some of these women were singers while others
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 2 8:10 AM
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                That reminds me - if you look at the sheet music covers, quite a few of them have photos of women in their garb. Some of these women were singers while others danced.
                Also, on Ted Tjaden's ragtime site, the 30-second video of a cakewalk shows some outfits as well.

                Adam in Philly


                ---- Original message ----
                >Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:58:20 -0400
                >From: Bryan Wright <bryan@...>
                >Subject: Re: [EliteSyncopations] Re: dressed in ragtime
                >To: EliteSyncopations@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >Rachel,
                >
                >At least in the Peoria competition, the women typically wear anything
                >from 1890s-style frilly dresses to 1920s "flapper" outfits complete
                >with sash and bobbed hair (sometimes with the feather in the hair).
                >Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures of these costumes and there
                >don't seem to be any good ones of the female contestants on the
                >Peoria competition website. In this case, a picture really is worth a
                >thousand words. Maybe someone else here has photos to share?
                >
                >Bryan
                >
                >
                >On Aug 2, 2006, at 7:00 AM, Rachel Newstead wrote:
                >
                >> Hi,
                >>
                >> I have a pretty good idea what women ragtimers wore in the past--
                >> what I
                >> was wondering when I asked my question was this--if the male
                >> performers
                >> of today wear the vests, derby hats, and so on, do the women
                >> performing
                >> now wear some variation of that, or clothing appropriate for the
                >> era, or
                >> modern clothing?
                >>
                >> Rachel
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Todd Robbins
                Bryan gave a good account for what women wear in Peoria. There are some venues, like the Diamond Belle in Durango and the Disney parks, where period attire
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 2 8:24 AM
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                  Bryan gave a good account for what women wear in Peoria. There are
                  some venues, like the Diamond Belle in Durango and the Disney parks,
                  where period attire fits in to the complete decor theme.

                  Most ragtime performers that do concert work do not wear period
                  attire. If it's a theatrical presentation, along the lines of what Max
                  Morath does or what Brent does with his parlor show, then it is
                  appropriate.

                  Period attire is hard to make work without coming off as hokey. It is
                  easy for our music to be dismissed as honky tonk/razz-a-ma-tazz hokum,
                  and wearing period attire without a good reason for wearing it can
                  devalue this music we love.

                  Todd
                • Todd Robbins
                  I didn t mean to throw a wet blanket on the discussion of period attire. It is a great thing when done well for the right reason. But then again, doing
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 3 8:47 PM
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                    I didn't mean to throw a wet blanket on the discussion of period
                    attire. It is a great thing when done well for the right reason. But
                    then again, doing something well for the right reason is something that
                    applies for everything in life, doesn't it?


                    Todd Robbins
                  • Bill Edwards
                    ... It ain t you. It s this damned heat (105 in D.C. area today). In fact, I would LOVE a wet blanket thrown on me at this point. Midnight, and it s still 91
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 3 10:02 PM
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                      --- In EliteSyncopations@yahoogroups.com, "Todd Robbins"
                      <coneyislandtodd@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I didn't mean to throw a wet blanket on the discussion of period
                      > attire.

                      It ain't you. It's this damned heat (105 in D.C. area today). In fact,
                      I would LOVE a wet blanket thrown on me at this point. Midnight, and
                      it's still 91 outside. Oy.

                      As for me, my wool suits are around 8 to 10 lbs, but make for some
                      very sharp attire. I occasionally do the whole thing with the collars
                      and the startched shirt fronts, but that's a hassle to get dressed in,
                      particularly if your left arm does not bend like that of other boys
                      and girls. I have four fairly genuine suits, and some nice
                      contemporary vests for wardrobe as well. Yet in some venues I'm just
                      as happy wearing either a modern suit or even dockers and a nice
                      shirt. Just gotta read the crowd and moment. Some places
                      encourage/require such attire for performance, both male and female.

                      And yes, many many females at these festivals, be they singers or
                      players, be they 15 or 85, do tend to wear varying degrees of period
                      or period-looking attire, but the players tend to not wear petticoats
                      with hoops for obvious reasons. I've even seen some sit sorta
                      side-saddle when playing, kinda weird.

                      Then there are the in-betweeners. Or at least one. Mimi Blais has a
                      great getup where she become LaFreniere, complete with moustache, and
                      another great driving/flying type suit as well. She makes a pretty
                      good-looking man as well as a woman. Still, it is the real deal.

                      I'm melting. I'm melting. What a world. Who'd ever thought a little
                      rag composer like you could take away my wonderful raggedness.

                      No, really. Throw water on me. It's too darn hot. (stoking the coles)

                      Brush up on your Shakespeare - ask the porter. Later, Bill E.
                    • Larisa Migachyov
                      ... I ve seen a few at the Sedalia festival, and I rather liked it, myself. ... True, true. And I d probably look ridiculous in petticoats anyway. Though
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 3 11:00 PM
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                        > Most ragtime performers that do concert work do not wear period
                        > attire. If it's a theatrical presentation, along the lines of what Max
                        > Morath does or what Brent does with his parlor show, then it is
                        > appropriate.

                        I've seen a few at the Sedalia festival, and I rather liked it, myself.

                        > Period attire is hard to make work without coming off as hokey. It is
                        > easy for our music to be dismissed as honky tonk/razz-a-ma-tazz hokum,
                        > and wearing period attire without a good reason for wearing it can
                        > devalue this music we love.

                        True, true. And I'd probably look ridiculous in petticoats anyway.

                        Though really, I think that it's not good for any kind of music,
                        ragtime included, to be taken too seriously. A healthy dose of
                        "dismissal" is probably better than "classical"-style deification and
                        fossilization. I'd rather that ragtime remain a living tradition.

                        But all that's neither here nor there. Probably the heat affecting my
                        brains.

                        LM
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