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Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Radio waves and EM transmission - atomic size

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  • a.mil@chello.nl
    Yes, you re right.... I guess you read the Science Hobbyist page? There is also another misconception about radiation: many people (including professionals in
    Message 1 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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      There is one part of this post that is not quite right and it is a
      common misconception. I ras across it only recently when someone asked
      me how an atom can emit light of a wavelength much longer than the
      atom is wide. It seems to violate all antenna theory.

      Visible light is about 400nm or 4000Angstroms
      Atomic radii are around 0.3 to 1 Angstom

      So light is more than 3 orders of magnitude longer in wavelength than
      a atomic radii.

      >
      > Light has a wavelength that is WAY smaller than any lumped-circuit
      > can be. Note that its wavelength is of the order of the size of an atom.


      > You can only create resonating circuits if its dimensions are of the
      same
      > order as the wavelength of the resonance frequency. So in short: NO,
      > its not possible :)
      >
      > They do however create semiconducting devices that can be of the
      > order of the wavelength of light, but that's not stuff for a hobbyist.
      >
      > I have however seen once an experiment that took a GHz signal
      > through many stages of frequency doublers (these work using the
      non-linearity
      > of a certain diode for example) and finally send out the signal
      through a parabolic
      > antenna. They claimed (showing photographs) that in the dark a faint
      visible
      > glow was to be seen from supposedly visible light... Although the
      magazine
      > was ok, I never saw it anywhere reproduced. But you can try of
      course.....
      >
      >         Albert



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    • Dave Mucha
      ... Atomic particles and energies do not have to be limited to 3 dimmentions. One of the things that get s us (and everybody else) into trouble is putting
      Message 2 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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        > An electromagnetic wave
        > consists of 3-dimensional fields that act and react on each other.


        Atomic particles and energies do not have to be limited to 3
        dimmentions.

        One of the things that get's us (and everybody else) into trouble is
        putting things into a nice neat easily understood compartment.


        Very interesting stuff though.

        Dave
      • a.mil@chello.nl
        Unless anyone has proven that more than three spatial dimensions really exist (and upto now, no one has proven this), there are only three, despite all very
        Message 3 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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          > An electromagnetic wave
          > consists of 3-dimensional fields that act and react on each other.


          Atomic particles and energies do not have to be limited to 3
          dimmentions.

          One of the things that get's us (and everybody else) into trouble is
          putting things into a nice neat easily understood compartment.


          Very interesting stuff though.

          Dave







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        • Michael Erath
          This all sounds like apples and oranges to me, your trying to apply laws that apply to electrons in antenna theory to photons which act much differently.. If I
          Message 4 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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            This all sounds like apples and oranges to me, your trying to apply laws that apply to electrons in antenna theory to photons which act much differently..

             

            If I remember , photons only follow wave theory sometimes, but not always.

             

             

            Back to photons and electrons. Just because you emit a rf signal at the precise wavelength of the light spectrum, wont give you light. Because your not emitting photons, your emitting electrons.

             

            My 2 cents.

             

            -----Original Message-----
            From: manifold [mailto:manifold_1@...]
            Sent: January 31, 2004 03:17 PM
            To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Radio waves and EM transmission - atomic size

             

            There is one part of this post that is not quite right and it is a
            common misconception. I ras across it only recently when someone asked
            me how an atom can emit light of a wavelength much longer than the
            atom is wide. It seems to violate all antenna theory.

            Visible light is about 400nm or 4000Angstroms
            Atomic radii are around 0.3 to 1 Angstom

            So light is more than 3 orders of magnitude longer in wavelength than
            a atomic radii.

            >
            > Light has a wavelength that is WAY smaller than any lumped-circuit
            > can be. Note that its wavelength is of the order of the size of an atom.


            > You can only create resonating circuits if its dimensions are of the
            same
            > order as the wavelength of the resonance frequency. So in short: NO,
            > its not possible :)
            >
            > They do however create semiconducting devices that can be of the
            > order of the wavelength of light, but that's not stuff for a hobbyist.
            >
            > I have however seen once an experiment that took a GHz signal
            > through many stages of frequency doublers (these work using the
            non-linearity
            > of a certain diode for example) and finally send out the signal
            through a parabolic
            > antenna. They claimed (showing photographs) that in the dark a faint
            visible
            > glow was to be seen from supposedly visible light... Although the
            magazine
            > was ok, I never saw it anywhere reproduced. But you can try of
            course.....
            >
            >         Albert


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          • Steve
            ... They have wavelike and particlelike behavior by classical physics descriptions. ... I think inflation has gotten to your 2 cents. ; ) Antennas do not
            Message 5 of 25 , Feb 1, 2004
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              --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Erath" <michael@n...>
              wrote:
              > This all sounds like apples and oranges to me, your trying to apply laws
              > that apply to electrons in antenna theory to photons which act much
              > differently..
              >
              > If I remember , photons only follow wave theory sometimes, but not
              > always.

              They have wavelike and particlelike behavior by classical physics
              descriptions.

              > Back to photons and electrons. Just because you emit a rf signal at the
              > precise wavelength of the light spectrum, wont give you light. Because
              > your not emitting photons, your emitting electrons.
              >
              > My 2 cents.

              I think inflation has gotten to your 2 cents. ;') Antennas do not
              transmit electrons. An antenna -is- emitting photons. EM waves are
              photons. X-Rays, UV, visible light, infrared, microwaves, FM radio,
              shortwave radio, AM radio, ELF, and those super low sub audio radio
              waves used to communicate with subs under water are all photons.

              Alien Steve
            • a.mil@chello.nl
              ... Well, not exactly.... Light behaves like photons (that is small packets of energy) when they interact, and like waves when they do not interact (roughly
              Message 6 of 25 , Feb 2, 2004
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                This all sounds like apples and oranges to me, your trying to apply laws that apply to electrons in antenna theory to photons which act much differently..

                 

                If I remember , photons only follow wave theory sometimes, but not always.

                 

                 

                Back to photons and electrons. Just because you emit a rf signal at the precise wavelength of the light spectrum, wont give you light. Because your not emitting photons, your emitting electrons.

                 

                My 2 cents.

                 

                -----Original Message-----
                From: manifold [mailto:manifold_1@...]
                Sent: January 31, 2004 03:17 PM
                To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Radio waves and EM transmission - atomic size

                 

                There is one part of this post that is not quite right and it is a
                common misconception. I ras across it only recently when someone asked
                me how an atom can emit light of a wavelength much longer than the
                atom is wide. It seems to violate all antenna theory.

                Visible light is about 400nm or 4000Angstroms
                Atomic radii are around 0.3 to 1 Angstom

                So light is more than 3 orders of magnitude longer in wavelength than
                a atomic radii.

                >
                > Light has a wavelength that is WAY smaller than any lumped-circuit
                > can be. Note that its wavelength is of the order of the size of an atom.


                > You can only create resonating circuits if its dimensions are of the
                same
                > order as the wavelength of the resonance frequency. So in short: NO,
                > its not possible :)
                >
                > They do however create semiconducting devices that can be of the
                > order of the wavelength of light, but that's not stuff for a hobbyist.
                >
                > I have however seen once an experiment that took a GHz signal
                > through many stages of frequency doublers (these work using the
                non-linearity
                > of a certain diode for example) and finally send out the signal
                through a parabolic
                > antenna. They claimed (showing photographs) that in the dark a faint
                visible
                > glow was to be seen from supposedly visible light... Although the
                magazine
                > was ok, I never saw it anywhere reproduced. But you can try of
                course.....
                >
                >         Albert


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                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Electronics_101/
                 

                ·         To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                ·         Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




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