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Re: [Electronics_101] Finally a good LED light bulb available

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  • Stefan Trethan
    I am also very satisfied with the remote phosphor LED bulbs made by philips and LG. I ll never buy a CFL again. ST
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 16 12:09 AM
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      I am also very satisfied with the remote phosphor LED bulbs made by
      philips and LG.
      I'll never buy a CFL again.



      ST


      On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 12:37 AM, normnet2003 <normnet2@...> wrote:
      > I thought I would share my findings for the following LED light bulb:
      >
      > http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/150059-can-a-10-led-bulb-finally-convert-the-incandescent-masses
      >
      > It's exactly as advertised; instant on, looks like an incandescent, the light is very similar to an incandescent and the price is getting better.
      > Also the coated glass isn't too hot to touch but the heat sink is.
      >
      > I ordered mine online but they will soon be available at Home Depot.
      >
      > I am in no way associated with the manufacturer or supplier of this bulb, just an impressed consumer.
      >
      >
      > Norm
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Please trim excess when replyingYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • Andy
      The big questions (for me) would be: How good an RFI generator is it? How hot does it get and why that hot? How does the heat compromise its life, as it does
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 16 9:17 PM
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        The big questions (for me) would be: How good an RFI generator is it?
        How hot does it get and why that hot? How does the heat compromise
        its life, as it does with some CFLs?

        As an early adopter, perhaps we can look forward to your feedback.

        Andy
      • Stefan Trethan
        It does get fairly hot. A teardown on the web shows the Philips use only Rubycon capacitors, and they are fully potted, which makes the 25000h plausible. There
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 16 9:53 PM
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          It does get fairly hot.
          A teardown on the web shows the Philips use only Rubycon capacitors,
          and they are fully potted, which makes the 25000h plausible.
          There is no reason why EMI would be worse than a CFL, they must all
          meet the same standards for certification.

          In a way the high price makes this at least remotely possible, a $5
          bulb can never ever last that long.

          I have only replaced the higher use lamps, it's not economical otherwise.
          For me the important thing is the light quality, and that it is
          instantly bright even in a cold environment.

          At my current light useage pattern it will be many years until the
          25000h are reached, so unless it fails very early I'm not a good test
          candidate.

          ST

          On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Andy <ai.egrps@...> wrote:
          > The big questions (for me) would be: How good an RFI generator is it?
          > How hot does it get and why that hot? How does the heat compromise
          > its life, as it does with some CFLs?
          >
          > As an early adopter, perhaps we can look forward to your feedback.
          >
          > Andy
          >
        • Marc R.J. Brevoort
          ... ... and the brightest they ve got is 60W equivalent . The first company that comes with an affordable 100W equivalent is the one that will have my money.
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 17 5:30 AM
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            On Fri, 15 Mar 2013, normnet2003 wrote:

            > I thought I would share my findings for the following LED light bulb:
            > It's exactly as advertised; instant on, looks like an incandescent,

            ... and the brightest they've got is "60W equivalent".

            The first company that comes with an affordable 100W equivalent is the one
            that will have my money.

            Best,
            Marc
          • Stefan Trethan
            I think that would be pushing it thermally, given the efficiency of current technology. Depending on your lamp a 60W equivalent may be sufficient, since only
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 17 9:29 AM
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              I think that would be pushing it thermally, given the efficiency of
              current technology.

              Depending on your lamp a 60W equivalent may be sufficient, since only
              the upper half of the bulb emits light.
              If not, just wait, they'll get there.

              ST


              On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Marc R.J. Brevoort <mrjb@...> wrote:
              > On Fri, 15 Mar 2013, normnet2003 wrote:
              >
              >> I thought I would share my findings for the following LED light bulb:
              >> It's exactly as advertised; instant on, looks like an incandescent,
              >
              > ... and the brightest they've got is "60W equivalent".
              >
              > The first company that comes with an affordable 100W equivalent is the one
              > that will have my money.
              >
              > Best,
              > Marc
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > Please trim excess when replyingYahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Derek
              I picked some LED light equivalents from CostCo. Company is called Feit Electric. The LED bulbs cost a bit over $7 each after tax. However, if you go look at
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 17 10:05 AM
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                I picked some LED light equivalents from CostCo. Company is called Feit Electric. The LED bulbs cost a bit over $7 each after tax. However, if you go look at http://www.thenanolight.com, I believe this will be the next big thing. It gets rid of the heatsink that many current LED bulbs have. Plus, they claim to go to 100W equivalent. Oh, everything above is dimmable.

                Derek Koonce
                DDK Interactive Consulting Services


                --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Marc R.J. Brevoort" <mrjb@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Fri, 15 Mar 2013, normnet2003 wrote:
                >
                > > I thought I would share my findings for the following LED light bulb:
                > > It's exactly as advertised; instant on, looks like an incandescent,
                >
                > ... and the brightest they've got is "60W equivalent".
                >
                > The first company that comes with an affordable 100W equivalent is the one
                > that will have my money.
                >
                > Best,
                > Marc
                >
              • normnet2003
                The glass on the Cree Home Depot 60 watt LED equivalent is barely warm to the touch and the heat sink runs about 155 degrees Fahrenheit. The best features of
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 17 11:12 AM
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                  The glass on the Cree Home Depot 60 watt LED equivalent is barely warm to the touch and the heat sink runs about 155 degrees Fahrenheit.

                  The best features of this bulb is it looks and lights like an incandescent.

                  Norm

                  --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, Andy <ai.egrps@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The big questions (for me) would be: How good an RFI generator is it?
                  > How hot does it get and why that hot? How does the heat compromise
                  > its life, as it does with some CFLs?
                  >
                  > As an early adopter, perhaps we can look forward to your feedback.
                  >
                  > Andy
                  >
                • Stefan Trethan
                  The Philips 8W has 70 degree C on the cooling fins, the LG 66 degree C, after a couple hours of running in a lamp thread up without any obstructions to the
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 17 12:18 PM
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                    The Philips 8W has 70 degree C on the cooling fins, the LG 66 degree
                    C, after a couple hours of running in a lamp thread up without any
                    obstructions to the airflow. (155F is 68C)

                    ST

                    On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 7:12 PM, normnet2003 <normnet2@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > The glass on the Cree Home Depot 60 watt LED equivalent is barely warm to the touch and the heat sink runs about 155 degrees Fahrenheit.
                    >
                    > The best features of this bulb is it looks and lights like an incandescent.
                    >
                    > Norm
                    >
                    > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, Andy <ai.egrps@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> The big questions (for me) would be: How good an RFI generator is it?
                    >> How hot does it get and why that hot? How does the heat compromise
                    >> its life, as it does with some CFLs?
                    >>
                    >> As an early adopter, perhaps we can look forward to your feedback.
                    >>
                    >> Andy
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Please trim excess when replyingYahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Stefan Trethan
                    Feit Electric does seems to have some very good bulbs with remote phosphor, including a 100W equivalent for about $30. Since the cooling fins are larger it is
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 17 12:43 PM
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                      Feit Electric does seems to have some very good bulbs with remote
                      phosphor, including a 100W equivalent for about $30.
                      Since the cooling fins are larger it is possible that this might work well.
                      Not sure which bulbs you got for just $7...

                      Regarding TheNanoLight, I think they are con men (or unrealistic dreamers).
                      If you look at the concept it has no edge over a cheap chinese
                      multi-emitter bulb.
                      In the video it even looks like the series resistor/capacitor power
                      supply (you can see the foil cap as he puts it together).
                      I haven't seen any simple multi-emitter light that gives satisfactory
                      light quality and spread.
                      There is a reason why they make the expensive lights with remote
                      phosphor and proper switchmode power supplies.
                      The only thing impressive is their marketing strategy, I'd certainly
                      not give them any of my money.


                      ST



                      On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Derek <derek@...> wrote:
                      > I picked some LED light equivalents from CostCo. Company is called Feit Electric. The LED bulbs cost a bit over $7 each after tax. However, if you go look at http://www.thenanolight.com, I believe this will be the next big thing. It gets rid of the heatsink that many current LED bulbs have. Plus, they claim to go to 100W equivalent. Oh, everything above is dimmable.
                      >
                      > Derek Koonce
                      > DDK Interactive Consulting Services
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Marc R.J. Brevoort" <mrjb@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013, normnet2003 wrote:
                      >>
                      >> > I thought I would share my findings for the following LED light bulb:
                      >> > It's exactly as advertised; instant on, looks like an incandescent,
                      >>
                      >> ... and the brightest they've got is "60W equivalent".
                      >>
                      >> The first company that comes with an affordable 100W equivalent is the one
                      >> that will have my money.
                      >>
                      >> Best,
                      >> Marc
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Please trim excess when replyingYahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Stefan Trethan
                      Not sure if this is representative, but at least some people are not happy with their Feit CFL bulbs:
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 17 12:54 PM
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                        Not sure if this is representative, but at least some people are not
                        happy with their Feit CFL bulbs:
                        <http://www.yelp.com/biz/feit-electric-co-pico-rivera>
                        Anyway, no knowing how good or bad the LED bulbs are. But I'm not
                        going for their 22W just yet, they aren't available here anyway (might
                        not even exist for 230V).
                        Just a head's up, you'll soon see for yourself if the LED bulbs are any good....

                        Maybe I'll check out the CREE if I see it here.

                        ST


                        On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
                        > Feit Electric does seems to have some very good bulbs with remote
                        > phosphor, including a 100W equivalent for about $30.
                        > Since the cooling fins are larger it is possible that this might work well.
                        > Not sure which bulbs you got for just $7...
                        >
                        > Regarding TheNanoLight, I think they are con men (or unrealistic dreamers).
                        > If you look at the concept it has no edge over a cheap chinese
                        > multi-emitter bulb.
                        > In the video it even looks like the series resistor/capacitor power
                        > supply (you can see the foil cap as he puts it together).
                        > I haven't seen any simple multi-emitter light that gives satisfactory
                        > light quality and spread.
                        > There is a reason why they make the expensive lights with remote
                        > phosphor and proper switchmode power supplies.
                        > The only thing impressive is their marketing strategy, I'd certainly
                        > not give them any of my money.
                        >
                        >
                        > ST
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Derek <derek@...> wrote:
                        >> I picked some LED light equivalents from CostCo. Company is called Feit Electric. The LED bulbs cost a bit over $7 each after tax. However, if you go look at http://www.thenanolight.com, I believe this will be the next big thing. It gets rid of the heatsink that many current LED bulbs have. Plus, they claim to go to 100W equivalent. Oh, everything above is dimmable.
                        >>
                        >> Derek Koonce
                        >> DDK Interactive Consulting Services
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Marc R.J. Brevoort" <mrjb@...> wrote:
                        >>>
                        >>> On Fri, 15 Mar 2013, normnet2003 wrote:
                        >>>
                        >>> > I thought I would share my findings for the following LED light bulb:
                        >>> > It's exactly as advertised; instant on, looks like an incandescent,
                        >>>
                        >>> ... and the brightest they've got is "60W equivalent".
                        >>>
                        >>> The first company that comes with an affordable 100W equivalent is the one
                        >>> that will have my money.
                        >>>
                        >>> Best,
                        >>> Marc
                        >>>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> ------------------------------------
                        >>
                        >> Please trim excess when replyingYahoo! Groups Links
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                      • alan00463
                        ... Thanks for posting this review, Norm. After reading it, I got the impression that it would be possible to dim this LED bulb using the same technology
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 17 1:28 PM
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                          --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "normnet2003" <normnet2@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I thought I would share my findings for the following LED light bulb:
                          >
                          > http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/150059-can-a-10-led-bulb-finally-convert-the-incandescent-masses

                          Thanks for posting this review, Norm. After reading it,
                          I got the impression that it would be possible to dim this
                          LED bulb using the same technology used to dim incandescent
                          lightbulbs in decades past--namely, devices that completely
                          cut off the AC waveform somewhere between 0VAC and the maximum
                          AC voltage value, plus or minus, and potentiometers. If
                          anyone tests these LED bulbs, I'd be interested in knowing
                          if these incandescent bulb dimming techniques still work
                          with these new devices.
                        • Stefan Trethan
                          The ones that say dimmable will work with common triac dimmers similar to what you describe. ST
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 17 1:32 PM
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                            The ones that say dimmable will work with common triac dimmers similar
                            to what you describe.

                            ST

                            On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 9:28 PM, alan00463 <alan00463@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Thanks for posting this review, Norm. After reading it,
                            > I got the impression that it would be possible to dim this
                            > LED bulb using the same technology used to dim incandescent
                            > lightbulbs in decades past--namely, devices that completely
                            > cut off the AC waveform somewhere between 0VAC and the maximum
                            > AC voltage value, plus or minus, and potentiometers. If
                            > anyone tests these LED bulbs, I'd be interested in knowing
                            > if these incandescent bulb dimming techniques still work
                            > with these new devices.
                            >
                          • Howard Hansen
                            Yes you can use the same technology to dim LED light bulbs that is used for dimmable CFL and incandescent light bulbs. The following source says
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 17 3:29 PM
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                              Yes you can use the same technology to dim LED light bulbs that is used
                              for dimmable CFL and incandescent light bulbs. The following source says
                              <http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCE/DimmingCFLsandLEDs.aspx>

                              *Reduced dimming range:*Incandescent/halogen bulbs will typically dim
                              lower than CFL or LED bulbs. Most dimmable CFLs will dim down to 10% to
                              30% measured light output. Early versions of dimmable LEDs on the market
                              have the ability to dim lower than CFLs and can reach levels as low as
                              5% to 15% measured light. The actual dimming range is dictated by the
                              bulb's circuitry.

                              The other Howard





                              On 3/17/2013 3:28 PM, alan00463 wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                              > <mailto:Electronics_101%40yahoogroups.com>, "normnet2003"
                              > <normnet2@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > I thought I would share my findings for the following LED light bulb:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/150059-can-a-10-led-bulb-finally-convert-the-incandescent-masses
                              >
                              >
                              > Thanks for posting this review, Norm. After reading it,
                              > I got the impression that it would be possible to dim this
                              > LED bulb using the same technology used to dim incandescent
                              > lightbulbs in decades past--namely, devices that completely
                              > cut off the AC waveform somewhere between 0VAC and the maximum
                              > AC voltage value, plus or minus, and potentiometers. If
                              > anyone tests these LED bulbs, I'd be interested in knowing
                              > if these incandescent bulb dimming techniques still work
                              > with these new devices.
                              >
                              >



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Andy
                              ... I don t know what certification actually has to do with it. There seems to be a huge range in EMI/RFI from common CFLs. I don t know what the standards
                              Message 14 of 19 , Mar 17 9:21 PM
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                                > There is no reason why EMI would be worse than a CFL, they must all
                                > meet the same standards for certification.

                                I don't know what certification actually has to do with it. There
                                seems to be a huge range in EMI/RFI from common CFLs. I don't know
                                what the standards are for them, but some seem so bad (from what I've
                                read) that it is surprising if these things actually meet anybody's
                                standards.

                                All other things being equal (which they rarely ever are), one might
                                tend to think that LEDs generate less radiated RFI since the diode
                                voltages are lower. But there's more to it than that. Personally I
                                think some EE types get to thinking that LEDs should have zero EMI/RFI
                                because they are accustomed to seeing LEDs in DC circuits ... which is
                                all fine and dandy except that's probably not how any of these light
                                bulbs work.

                                Andy
                              • Stefan Trethan
                                You can expect the big brand names to meet the EMI standards, their product is around a long time and they have a reputation to lose. The latest
                                Message 15 of 19 , Mar 17 11:03 PM
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                                  You can expect the big brand names to meet the EMI standards, their
                                  product is around a long time and they have a reputation to lose.
                                  The latest "happyfriendlylight" bulb direct from china is probably not
                                  even tested for safety, let alone EMI.

                                  Of course you are right, the LEDs make zero EMI, the switchmode supply does.

                                  ST

                                  On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 5:21 AM, Andy <ai.egrps@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I don't know what certification actually has to do with it. There
                                  > seems to be a huge range in EMI/RFI from common CFLs. I don't know
                                  > what the standards are for them, but some seem so bad (from what I've
                                  > read) that it is surprising if these things actually meet anybody's
                                  > standards.
                                  >
                                  > All other things being equal (which they rarely ever are), one might
                                  > tend to think that LEDs generate less radiated RFI since the diode
                                  > voltages are lower. But there's more to it than that. Personally I
                                  > think some EE types get to thinking that LEDs should have zero EMI/RFI
                                  > because they are accustomed to seeing LEDs in DC circuits ... which is
                                  > all fine and dandy except that's probably not how any of these light
                                  > bulbs work.
                                  >
                                  > Andy
                                  >
                                • Kerim F
                                  About EMI and in case LEDS are driven by mains, I designed lately a very simple low cost driver that generates relatively very low EMI and heat and has an
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Mar 17 11:54 PM
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                                    About EMI and in case LEDS are driven by mains, I designed lately a very simple low cost driver that generates relatively very low EMI and heat and has an acceptable/practical current regulation (for long LED service life). Its problem is that it should be produced in large quantities. Making one good prototype manually may need a lot of effort and time that cannot be justified if just a few drivers are needed. Obviously on LTspice it costs nothing.

                                    Kerim

                                    Note: I live in Syria so it is out of the question for me to contact any manufacturer in these days as I used doing before 2001, mainly with the Chinese ones ;)


                                    --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > You can expect the big brand names to meet the EMI standards, their
                                    > product is around a long time and they have a reputation to lose.
                                    > The latest "happyfriendlylight" bulb direct from china is probably not
                                    > even tested for safety, let alone EMI.
                                    >
                                    > Of course you are right, the LEDs make zero EMI, the switchmode supply does.
                                    >
                                    > ST
                                    >
                                    > On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 5:21 AM, Andy <ai.egrps@...> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I don't know what certification actually has to do with it. There
                                    > > seems to be a huge range in EMI/RFI from common CFLs. I don't know
                                    > > what the standards are for them, but some seem so bad (from what I've
                                    > > read) that it is surprising if these things actually meet anybody's
                                    > > standards.
                                    > >
                                    > > All other things being equal (which they rarely ever are), one might
                                    > > tend to think that LEDs generate less radiated RFI since the diode
                                    > > voltages are lower. But there's more to it than that. Personally I
                                    > > think some EE types get to thinking that LEDs should have zero EMI/RFI
                                    > > because they are accustomed to seeing LEDs in DC circuits ... which is
                                    > > all fine and dandy except that's probably not how any of these light
                                    > > bulbs work.
                                    > >
                                    > > Andy
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • Kerim F
                                    Correction... before 2011... sorry
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Mar 17 11:56 PM
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                                      Correction... before 2011... sorry

                                      --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Kerim F" <ahumanbeing2000@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > About EMI and in case LEDS are driven by mains, I designed lately a very simple low cost driver that generates relatively very low EMI and heat and has an acceptable/practical current regulation (for long LED service life). Its problem is that it should be produced in large quantities. Making one good prototype manually may need a lot of effort and time that cannot be justified if just a few drivers are needed. Obviously on LTspice it costs nothing.
                                      >
                                      > Kerim
                                      >
                                      > Note: I live in Syria so it is out of the question for me to contact any manufacturer in these days as I used doing before 2011, mainly with the Chinese ones ;)
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > You can expect the big brand names to meet the EMI standards, their
                                      > > product is around a long time and they have a reputation to lose.
                                      > > The latest "happyfriendlylight" bulb direct from china is probably not
                                      > > even tested for safety, let alone EMI.
                                      > >
                                      > > Of course you are right, the LEDs make zero EMI, the switchmode supply does.
                                      > >
                                      > > ST
                                      > >
                                      > > On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 5:21 AM, Andy <ai.egrps@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I don't know what certification actually has to do with it. There
                                      > > > seems to be a huge range in EMI/RFI from common CFLs. I don't know
                                      > > > what the standards are for them, but some seem so bad (from what I've
                                      > > > read) that it is surprising if these things actually meet anybody's
                                      > > > standards.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > All other things being equal (which they rarely ever are), one might
                                      > > > tend to think that LEDs generate less radiated RFI since the diode
                                      > > > voltages are lower. But there's more to it than that. Personally I
                                      > > > think some EE types get to thinking that LEDs should have zero EMI/RFI
                                      > > > because they are accustomed to seeing LEDs in DC circuits ... which is
                                      > > > all fine and dandy except that's probably not how any of these light
                                      > > > bulbs work.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Andy
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Jong Kung
                                      Kerim, I hope you stay safe with all the turmoil in your world. They say that when elephants fight only the ants die. Stay out of the toes of your local
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Mar 18 1:55 AM
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                                        Kerim,


                                        I hope you stay safe with all the turmoil in your world. They say that when elephants fight only the ants die.

                                        Stay out of the toes of your local elephants.


                                        Jong

                                        On Mar 17, 2013, at 8:54 PM, "Kerim F" <ahumanbeing2000@...> wrote:

                                        > Kerim
                                        >
                                        > Note: I live in Syria so it is out of the question for me to contact any manufacturer in these days as I used doing before 2001, mainly with the Chinese ones ;)
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