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Re: Heathkit Educational Series

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  • bruce_fleming
    Hi, Glen. I have read the other replies to your post and have a little to say on the subject. There are lots of books out there that teach basic electronics.
    Message 1 of 17 , Feb 21, 2013
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      Hi, Glen. I have read the other replies to your post and have a little to say on the subject.

      There are lots of books out there that teach basic electronics. Here are some of them and a little of why I think they could serve you well:

      1) Electronic Circuits for the Evil Genius, There is a 2nd edition available now. There is a kit available to go with this book. The kit contains the components plus pcb's so you can practice soldering and have working devices. I have not used a kit but it looks like a good idea. The 1st edition uses analogies to explain concepts behind component operation which can help a lot.

      There are lots of other of the same type of book available such as the Dummies, Demystified, Complete Idiot's Guide, and so on. They might or might not have a kit to go with them but they are worth a look to see what kinds of projects are used and components needed.

      2) A Forest Mims book. I have seen his book mentioned lots of other places on forums and the like. He also writes articles for magazines like Make and wherever else you might find him. Search for his name and you will come up with lots of material.

      3) Beginner's kits supplied by magazines such as Make and Nuts and Volts. There are a few other magazines out there so check them out as well.

      4) Electronic Engineering Technician/Technology program textbooks. These programs are offered at community colleges and have enough math to show you what is going on with circuits but nothing like a lot of calculus to make things harder to learn. I can say that these books are quite good:
      Electronic Devices, Conventional Current Version by ___ Floyd, publisher Pearson Prentice Hall;
      Principles of Electronic Circuits by ___ Floyd, publisher Pearson Prentice Hall;
      Digital Electronics by ___ Kleitz, publisher Pearson Prentice Hall.

      I have kept these books for reference. With the right components and equipment you can put together all the circuits provided. Some values could be changed to suit your current parts available.

      5) Other kits available online or from magazines in their ads. This might be hit and miss if you cannot have a look at what kinds of circuits and components are used.

      You local public and community college/university libraries are great resources. You can borrow first and buy later if you like. You can also request books for the library to purchase and if in their budget, they will probably buy the books if they are relevant to their programs offered.

      While it can be confusing at first, online suppliers that provide large variety of components can be great for saving a few dollars. They often provide items at much lower costs than specialty suppliers. What makes it confusing and often hard to use is the sheet number of items available and all the options that can define each item. Such suppliers are, but limited to: Digikey, Newark/element14, Farnell, Mouser, and Jameco. Sometimes it is worth it to go with a supplier that is in between the large and the small specialty supplier. ARBA Electronics is one but there is no guarantee you will get the brand name you hope for.

      Other specialty suppliers could include: Solarbotics, RobotShop, Adafruit Industries, Parallax, Sparkfun, and CanaKit. These lists are by no means exhaustive so feel free to keep looking.

      One of the nice things about the smaller specialty suppliers is they often have tutorials for the products they sell. Some of them are very good.

      On the subject of tutorials, here is an excellent website for tutorials on electronics, as well as other subjects: WISC-ONLINE. I cannot tell you how much potential this site has to help you. It help to have a book to reference for order of use for the tutorials offered as they are listed alphabetically.

      To start with you should need only the following things:
      1) A DMM - digital multimeter.
      2) Three rolls of 22 AWG solid core wire, red (power), black (ground), and green or white (other more common connections). A solid core wire jumper kit will also do the job but you might run short of jumpers at some point.
      3) Solderless breadboards, two 840 point boards should be OK to start with as long as the projects are not too complicated.
      4) One or two AC-DC power supplies, Variable from 3 V - 12 V, 1000 mA. These are not very expensive compared to buying a kit or a pre-built power supply. Voltages can be stepped down using a voltage regular with the proper circuit. Example: use the 12 Vdc ouptut stepped down with an LM7805 circuit. This allows you to supply 12 Vdc to one circuit and 5 Vdc to another circuit. Battery packs also work. Useful sizes are 9 V, 8 x AA for 12 V or 10 V if rechargeable NiMH. Other sizes are useful as well.

      Have fun and good luck!

      Ps.: The other suggestions for uC kits can be very good but you will have to work a little harder to learn the basic electronics from those kits. If you want to build a robot before an analog audio amp then that is the way to go. Popular uC kits are Arduino, Basic Stamp 2, and PICAxe. PICs and AVRs are more complicated but if you know how to program in C/C++ then it is probably not too hard.

      --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "GlenH_KI4FMC" <gmhackney@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello!
      > This is one of my first posts to any of the Yahoo Groups so please bear with me if I make any mistakes. I am hoping someone can help me.
      > I am trying to find some of the Heathkit Educational Series books but without any success despite following every lead that Google listed under several categories. The series are:
      >
      > 1) Passive Circuit Design, by Leonard F. Vincent, ISBN 978-0871190208,
      > Pub. Heathkit-Zenith 1983
      >
      > 2) Digital Circuit Design, Books 1 & 2, by Staugaard and Larsen,
      > ISBN 978-0871191120, Pub. Heath Company 1986
      >
      > 3) TTL and CMOS Circuits, Pub. Heathkit-Zenith 1987
      > ISBN 978-0871190017
      >
      > I have many of the other books / series and this would pretty much complete the ones that I would like to have. I am also trying to "Elmer" several other new hams and soon to be hams. After 35 years since electronics school and 62 years old, the mind isn't as sharp as it used to be. I'm sure several of you can relate to this !!
      > If anyone has any of these books and would be willing to sell them please let me know.
      > Thanks in advance !!!, Glen
      >
    • bruce_fleming
      A couple of errors I would like to correct in my last message: 1) The suppliers lists are NOT exhaustive. 2) For any kind of insulated wire you will need wire
      Message 2 of 17 , Feb 21, 2013
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        A couple of errors I would like to correct in my last message:

        1) The suppliers lists are NOT exhaustive.
        2) For any kind of insulated wire you will need wire strippers. Spend a few extra dollars here as the wire strippers that might come with inexpensive DMMs are not very good.
        3) If you are using a AC-DC power supply, you will need a power jack and solid core wire. Use a soldering iron to attach solid core wire to the soldering lugs so you can plug the jack into your solderless breadboard. You might be able to get away with plugging wires directly into a plug when you remove the interchangeable adapter but 22 AWG wire will probably be too loose. Stripping the interchangeable jack at the end of the power cable and soldering solid core wires to the ends should work but then you cannot plug it into actual electronic devices with power jacks.

        --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "bruce_fleming" <bruce_fleming@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi, Glen. I have read the other replies to your post and have a little to say on the subject.
        >
        > There are lots of books out there that teach basic electronics. Here are some of them and a little of why I think they could serve you well:
        >
        > 1) Electronic Circuits for the Evil Genius, There is a 2nd edition available now. There is a kit available to go with this book. The kit contains the components plus pcb's so you can practice soldering and have working devices. I have not used a kit but it looks like a good idea. The 1st edition uses analogies to explain concepts behind component operation which can help a lot.
        >
        > There are lots of other of the same type of book available such as the Dummies, Demystified, Complete Idiot's Guide, and so on. They might or might not have a kit to go with them but they are worth a look to see what kinds of projects are used and components needed.
        >
        > 2) A Forest Mims book. I have seen his book mentioned lots of other places on forums and the like. He also writes articles for magazines like Make and wherever else you might find him. Search for his name and you will come up with lots of material.
        >
        > 3) Beginner's kits supplied by magazines such as Make and Nuts and Volts. There are a few other magazines out there so check them out as well.
        >
        > 4) Electronic Engineering Technician/Technology program textbooks. These programs are offered at community colleges and have enough math to show you what is going on with circuits but nothing like a lot of calculus to make things harder to learn. I can say that these books are quite good:
        > Electronic Devices, Conventional Current Version by ___ Floyd, publisher Pearson Prentice Hall;
        > Principles of Electronic Circuits by ___ Floyd, publisher Pearson Prentice Hall;
        > Digital Electronics by ___ Kleitz, publisher Pearson Prentice Hall.
        >
        > I have kept these books for reference. With the right components and equipment you can put together all the circuits provided. Some values could be changed to suit your current parts available.
        >
        > 5) Other kits available online or from magazines in their ads. This might be hit and miss if you cannot have a look at what kinds of circuits and components are used.
        >
        > You local public and community college/university libraries are great resources. You can borrow first and buy later if you like. You can also request books for the library to purchase and if in their budget, they will probably buy the books if they are relevant to their programs offered.
        >
        > While it can be confusing at first, online suppliers that provide large variety of components can be great for saving a few dollars. They often provide items at much lower costs than specialty suppliers. What makes it confusing and often hard to use is the sheet number of items available and all the options that can define each item. Such suppliers are, but limited to: Digikey, Newark/element14, Farnell, Mouser, and Jameco. Sometimes it is worth it to go with a supplier that is in between the large and the small specialty supplier. ARBA Electronics is one but there is no guarantee you will get the brand name you hope for.
        >
        > Other specialty suppliers could include: Solarbotics, RobotShop, Adafruit Industries, Parallax, Sparkfun, and CanaKit. These lists are by no means exhaustive so feel free to keep looking.
        >
        > One of the nice things about the smaller specialty suppliers is they often have tutorials for the products they sell. Some of them are very good.
        >
        > On the subject of tutorials, here is an excellent website for tutorials on electronics, as well as other subjects: WISC-ONLINE. I cannot tell you how much potential this site has to help you. It help to have a book to reference for order of use for the tutorials offered as they are listed alphabetically.
        >
        > To start with you should need only the following things:
        > 1) A DMM - digital multimeter.
        > 2) Three rolls of 22 AWG solid core wire, red (power), black (ground), and green or white (other more common connections). A solid core wire jumper kit will also do the job but you might run short of jumpers at some point.
        > 3) Solderless breadboards, two 840 point boards should be OK to start with as long as the projects are not too complicated.
        > 4) One or two AC-DC power supplies, Variable from 3 V - 12 V, 1000 mA. These are not very expensive compared to buying a kit or a pre-built power supply. Voltages can be stepped down using a voltage regular with the proper circuit. Example: use the 12 Vdc ouptut stepped down with an LM7805 circuit. This allows you to supply 12 Vdc to one circuit and 5 Vdc to another circuit. Battery packs also work. Useful sizes are 9 V, 8 x AA for 12 V or 10 V if rechargeable NiMH. Other sizes are useful as well.
        >
        > Have fun and good luck!
        >
        > Ps.: The other suggestions for uC kits can be very good but you will have to work a little harder to learn the basic electronics from those kits. If you want to build a robot before an analog audio amp then that is the way to go. Popular uC kits are Arduino, Basic Stamp 2, and PICAxe. PICs and AVRs are more complicated but if you know how to program in C/C++ then it is probably not too hard.
        >
        > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "GlenH_KI4FMC" <gmhackney@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello!
        > > This is one of my first posts to any of the Yahoo Groups so please bear with me if I make any mistakes. I am hoping someone can help me.
        > > I am trying to find some of the Heathkit Educational Series books but without any success despite following every lead that Google listed under several categories. The series are:
        > >
        > > 1) Passive Circuit Design, by Leonard F. Vincent, ISBN 978-0871190208,
        > > Pub. Heathkit-Zenith 1983
        > >
        > > 2) Digital Circuit Design, Books 1 & 2, by Staugaard and Larsen,
        > > ISBN 978-0871191120, Pub. Heath Company 1986
        > >
        > > 3) TTL and CMOS Circuits, Pub. Heathkit-Zenith 1987
        > > ISBN 978-0871190017
        > >
        > > I have many of the other books / series and this would pretty much complete the ones that I would like to have. I am also trying to "Elmer" several other new hams and soon to be hams. After 35 years since electronics school and 62 years old, the mind isn't as sharp as it used to be. I'm sure several of you can relate to this !!
        > > If anyone has any of these books and would be willing to sell them please let me know.
        > > Thanks in advance !!!, Glen
        > >
        >
      • jong kung
        Glen, The ONE book that I found very useful (and basically made me understand electronics - as a self learner) was; Electronics self teach guide - by Harry
        Message 3 of 17 , Feb 21, 2013
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          Glen,


          The ONE book that I found very useful (and basically made me "understand" electronics - as a self learner) was;

          Electronics self teach guide - by Harry Kybett

          I had the first edition. It has some errors but nothing I could not could not figure out. Now there's the third edition so I am assuming those errors were corrected. This books explains the theory, and has plenty of problems with solution for you to work out. It also has chapters on filters that many self learner books are missing without using too much advance math (just algebra).

          I also found this book helpful in understanding the 555:

          Practical Electronics for Inventors - by Paul Scherz

          Kind of thin on theory for most of electronics - but it does go into more practical explanation (like different types of capacitors - almost never touched on by other electronics books, etc).

          ========

          Be careful of college textbooks. I found that they are NOT good at self learner style. For example, the classic "The Art of Electronics" - while it is a great book for reference, I found it terrible as a learning tool. It says that electronics is an art and it should be done on almost back of napkin (intuitive style). But then in just few pages later it goes into calculus in explaining the simplest electronics (and in first chapter no less). I found nothing intuitive about his explanation at all. And many college course text books assume such.

          I like Forrest Mimms books for his simple yet clever electronics circuits. But I find he does NOT explain his circuits at all most of the time. His books are nice to have once you understand electronics and you can look at his circuits to learn (just from schematic) but he provides little in terms of explanation - that's been my experience. For example - often he might have circuits using 555 IC - but almost never explains why the R and C is wired that way. He just assumes you know that few of the R & C makes up for charging and discharging (timing) configuration. But now that I have some understanding of analog electronics, I very much like Forrest Mimms books.

          ======

          All things said so far - I want to stress again - get some sort of oscilloscope if you can afford it. Some are USB type (not my favorite) and others are stand alone type (digital OR purely analog). It is your best friend as a self learner. VOM / DMM only gets you so far - and it is mostly helpful in DC electronics. You will need a scope to really learn AC electronics (any circuit with varying signals).

          Have fun.


          Jong
        • rtstofer
          ... Electronics, beyond the level of copying circuits from how to articles, involves mathematics. Even the voltage across a capacitor is related to the
          Message 4 of 17 , Feb 22, 2013
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            --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, jong kung <jongkung01@...> wrote:
            > All things said so far - I want to stress again - get some sort of oscilloscope if you can afford it. Some are USB type (not my favorite) and others are stand alone type (digital OR purely analog). It is your best friend as a self learner. VOM / DMM only gets you so far - and it is mostly helpful in DC electronics. You will need a scope to really learn AC electronics (any circuit with varying signals).
            >
            > Have fun.
            >
            >
            > Jong
            >

            Electronics, beyond the level of copying circuits from "how to" articles, involves mathematics. Even the voltage across a capacitor is related to the integral of the current flow. So, you don't get very far into any textbook before calculus comes up.

            If I were starting out, I would give serious consideration to Digilent's Analog Discovery because it provides a 2 channel scope, 2 arbitrary waveform generators, + & - 5V power supplies and a 16 channel logic analyzer.

            http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,842,1018&Prod=ANALOG-DISCOVERY

            I'm pretty sure I just pencil whipped my lab classes in college. But this thing makes circuit analysis fun!

            I never spent much time with op amps (my interests have always been digital) but these days I am having a lot of fun with op amp circuits for analog computing. Integrators, differentiators, inverters, comparators, analog switches, etc.

            The first several videos of this course don't require a lot of math. But the instructor does recommend a concurrent course in differential equations so that assumes a background in differential and integral calculus. Still, that level of math doesn't come up until he starts in with capacitors and inductors. There's a lot of good material before he gets there:

            http://digilentinc.com/Classroom/RealAnalog/

            His explanation of op gain is worth getting to. It makes "Op Amps For Everyone" a lot easier to understand.

            Even without all this stuff, there's still a lot of fun to be had in just tinkering. There are a lot of projects posted to the Internet.

            Richard
          • Kerim F
            I like adding; when we were kids, they helped us learn for learning only without knowing to what this will end up ;) But when adult, it is good to have a
            Message 5 of 17 , Feb 22, 2013
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              I like adding; when we were kids, 'they' helped us learn for learning only without knowing to what this will end up ;) But when adult, it is good to have a specific goal in mind, a useful project no matter how small and simple it is, so that the study could be directed to build this first project while understanding, as possible, every detail in it. Then a second useful project could be chosen with more confidence. It usually needs more reading, studying and thinking. This is how I became gradually professional in designing (this started after I bought my first oscilloscope) but also thank to the zillions of errors (silly and serious) I did during my long journey (till now) from which I have learnt most. At work, withdrawing doesn't exist in my vocabulary ;)

              --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "rtstofer" <rstofer@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, jong kung <jongkung01@> wrote:
              > > All things said so far - I want to stress again - get some sort of oscilloscope if you can afford it. Some are USB type (not my favorite) and others are stand alone type (digital OR purely analog). It is your best friend as a self learner. VOM / DMM only gets you so far - and it is mostly helpful in DC electronics. You will need a scope to really learn AC electronics (any circuit with varying signals).
              > >
              > > Have fun.
              > >
              > >
              > > Jong
              > >
              >
              > Electronics, beyond the level of copying circuits from "how to" articles, involves mathematics. Even the voltage across a capacitor is related to the integral of the current flow. So, you don't get very far into any textbook before calculus comes up.
              >
              > If I were starting out, I would give serious consideration to Digilent's Analog Discovery because it provides a 2 channel scope, 2 arbitrary waveform generators, + & - 5V power supplies and a 16 channel logic analyzer.
              >
              > http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,842,1018&Prod=ANALOG-DISCOVERY
              >
              > I'm pretty sure I just pencil whipped my lab classes in college. But this thing makes circuit analysis fun!
              >
              > I never spent much time with op amps (my interests have always been digital) but these days I am having a lot of fun with op amp circuits for analog computing. Integrators, differentiators, inverters, comparators, analog switches, etc.
              >
              > The first several videos of this course don't require a lot of math. But the instructor does recommend a concurrent course in differential equations so that assumes a background in differential and integral calculus. Still, that level of math doesn't come up until he starts in with capacitors and inductors. There's a lot of good material before he gets there:
              >
              > http://digilentinc.com/Classroom/RealAnalog/
              >
              > His explanation of op gain is worth getting to. It makes "Op Amps For Everyone" a lot easier to understand.
              >
              > Even without all this stuff, there's still a lot of fun to be had in just tinkering. There are a lot of projects posted to the Internet.
              >
              > Richard
              >
            • jongkung01
              Even though I got A s in calc 1 & 2, I don t find calculus very intuitive. Maybe if I did more on a day to day basis... As for things like capacitors, I try
              Message 6 of 17 , Feb 22, 2013
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                Even though I got A's in calc 1 & 2, I don't find calculus very intuitive. Maybe if I did more on a day to day basis... As for things like capacitors, I try to make rules of thumb (10%, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 90% charging time) and use that. Remember that numbers change but not the shape of charging a discharge curve. It not only makes the math simpler, it makes understanding circuits more intuitive (at least to me). This isn't just for electronics but anything in life I may do repetitive calculation. Also capacitor values are not exact enough that precise math often means nothing. I know if I was paid engineer I should do more precise calcs IF I had to. But I find that as hobbyist this gets me very far (not only in design but in understanding circuits - my tiny failing mind can only grasp so much these days). Also with tools like LTSpice, I can do more "complex" design "on paper".

                To me it is equivalent to using a calculator to find value of sin(x), instead of figuring it out using the Taylor series or evens chart.

                My brother (the math and physics major) hates this kind of math. He like precise calculations instead of estimation. Sadly people (sometime) think I'm actually smart because I can so some math in my head (like figuring out tip at the restaurants) - and my brother don't even try!!!

                =====

                Try it.


                Jong



                On Feb 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Kerim F" <ahumanbeing2000@...> wrote:

                > Electronics, beyond the level of copying circuits from "how to" articles, involves mathematics. Even the voltage across a capacitor is related to the integral of the current flow. So, you don't get very far into any textbook before calculus comes up.
              • bruce_fleming
                ... I agree that using an oscilloscope is a great learning tool. However, when just getting back into electronics, it would probably be a good idea to spend a
                Message 7 of 17 , Feb 23, 2013
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                  --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "rtstofer" <rstofer@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, jong kung <jongkung01@> wrote:
                  > > All things said so far - I want to stress again - get some sort of oscilloscope if you can afford it. Some are USB type (not my favorite) and others are stand alone type (digital OR purely analog). It is your best friend as a self learner. VOM / DMM only gets you so far - and it is mostly helpful in DC electronics. You will need a scope to really learn AC electronics (any circuit with varying signals).
                  > >
                  > > Have fun.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Jong
                  > >
                  >
                  > Electronics, beyond the level of copying circuits from "how to" articles, involves mathematics. Even the voltage across a capacitor is related to the integral of the current flow. So, you don't get very far into any textbook before calculus comes up.
                  >
                  > If I were starting out, I would give serious consideration to Digilent's Analog Discovery because it provides a 2 channel scope, 2 arbitrary waveform generators, + & - 5V power supplies and a 16 channel logic analyzer.
                  >
                  > http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,842,1018&Prod=ANALOG-DISCOVERY

                  I agree that using an oscilloscope is a great learning tool. However, when just getting back into electronics, it would probably be a good idea to spend a couple of hundred dollars on the bare necessities and components. Going out and spending the extra $200 (at least) on an oscilloscope may or may not pan out. The $200 figure is in the neighbourhood of what you will pay for a low end, yet still functional, USB oscilloscope. I have one, a PoScope.

                  Make sure you have the interest first, let the electronics bug bite with whatever projects you like, then spend some more money when you decide you need it. There are literally a thousand projects you can build without using an oscilloscope. Keep your projects simple enough that you should not need a scope. A lot of troubleshooting can be done with a DMM and observation of what kind of assembly techniques you have used and what you did poorly such as solder joints and too many wires too close together in a big rat's nest. Learn from your mistakes.

                  In the end, most projects will not need calculus. Ohm's Law, V = IR, is the basis for most analysis and a number of other equations such as RC time constants and filter equations.

                  The subject of the MIT (was that the top level school providing this course?) online electronics course that so many people started and then so many said that it was too much work and some of it was way over their heads. It was probably here and on PICList as well. That had a lot of calculus or so I heard.

                  Here is a link:
                  http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2012/6002x-mitx-begins-today-0305.html

                  My opinion is not that calculus is useless and that electrical engineers even more so, far from it. If we did not have electrical engineers and calculus, I would probably not be experimenting transistors and op amps, let alone uC's and PCs.

                  If you have a look at some technician level textbooks you will probably find that there is very little calculus involved. I have seen calculus, studied it for two years and did quite well in it. At some point, I might even try to figure out how it gets used on the electrical engineering level.
                • jong kung
                  ... That device is just $200 and it includes a low speed oscilloscope and a function generator. It can also be used as logic analyzer !!! ... Just speaking
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 23, 2013
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                    > > http://digilentinc.com/Products/Detail.cfm?NavPath=2,842,1018&Prod=ANALOG-DISCOVERY
                    >
                    > I agree that using an oscilloscope is a great learning tool.
                    > However, when just getting back into electronics, it would
                    > probably be a good idea to spend a couple of hundred dollars
                    > on the bare necessities and components. Going out and
                    > spending the extra $200 (at least) on an oscilloscope may or
                    > may not pan out.

                    That device is just $200 and it includes a low speed oscilloscope and a function generator. It can also be used as logic analyzer !!!

                    ======

                    > Make sure you have the interest first, let the electronics
                    > bug bite with whatever projects you like, then spend some
                    > more money when you decide you need it. There are literally
                    > a thousand projects you can build without using an
                    > oscilloscope. Keep your projects simple enough that you
                    > should not need a scope.

                    Just speaking from my personal experience, I am a purely self taught hobbyist. I think I had maybe 10 minutes of tutorial from somebody with EE education in my life. I built plenty of simple circuits (blinking led types, etc.) to more complex and functional circuit (AM / FM radio, etc.) before I got my o-scope. I still had NO real understanding of electronics because a person just cannot "see" electrons move and volt meters just don't react fast enough. It was when I put my first scope probes (old and used / ebay special) on to my 2 transistor oscillator - I was shocked at the voltage curve and my understanding of electronics just jumped. NEVER once I was told in that famous circuit the voltage can go negative !!!

                    Let's just say that from my personal experience, I am trying to save the next guy a lot of lost time and learn faster.


                    Jong
                  • Larry Beaty
                    Jong, it is not calculus to determine the charge on a capacitor, the equation uses logs. Easy to do on a (scientific) calculator. I m sure you can figure dB
                    Message 9 of 17 , Feb 23, 2013
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                      Jong, it is not calculus to determine the charge on a capacitor, the
                      equation uses logs. Easy to do on a (scientific) calculator. I'm sure you
                      can figure dB ratios, same thing. And probably in your head!



                      I spent my life in Electrical Engineering and never used calculus. The only
                      problem I could not solve was the current/voltage relationship for an
                      incandescent lamp. Sent the problem to University of Miami Math dept. They
                      came back two days later and said it was insolvable! Yea! For my team!



                      All my years of work, algebra put the bread and butter on my table.



                      Larry



                      From: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jongkung01@...
                      Sent: Friday, February 22, 2013 9:49 PM
                      To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Heathkit Educational Series







                      Even though I got A's in calc 1 & 2, I don't find calculus very intuitive.
                      Maybe if I did more on a day to day basis... As for things like capacitors,
                      I try to make rules of thumb (10%, 1/3, 1/2, 2/3, 90% charging time) and use
                      that. Remember that numbers change but not the shape of charging a discharge
                      curve. It not only makes the math simpler, it makes understanding circuits
                      more intuitive (at least to me). This isn't just for electronics but
                      anything in life I may do repetitive calculation. Also capacitor values are
                      not exact enough that precise math often means nothing. I know if I was paid
                      engineer I should do more precise calcs IF I had to. But I find that as
                      hobbyist this gets me very far (not only in design but in understanding
                      circuits - my tiny failing mind can only grasp so much these days). Also
                      with tools like LTSpice, I can do more "complex" design "on paper".

                      To me it is equivalent to using a calculator to find value of sin(x),
                      instead of figuring it out using the Taylor series or evens chart.

                      My brother (the math and physics major) hates this kind of math. He like
                      precise calculations instead of estimation. Sadly people (sometime) think
                      I'm actually smart because I can so some math in my head (like figuring out
                      tip at the restaurants) - and my brother don't even try!!!

                      =====

                      Try it.

                      Jong

                      On Feb 22, 2013, at 11:20 AM, "Kerim F" ahumanbeing2000@...
                      <mailto:ahumanbeing2000%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                      > Electronics, beyond the level of copying circuits from "how to" articles,
                      involves mathematics. Even the voltage across a capacitor is related to the
                      integral of the current flow. So, you don't get very far into any textbook
                      before calculus comes up.





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jong Kung
                      ... Funny you said that. I mentioned to a group of my colleagues / fellow software weenies - that in school we were required to take calc 1 & 2... yet we
                      Message 10 of 17 , Feb 23, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        >> I spent my life in Electrical Engineering and never used calculus

                        Funny you said that. I mentioned to a group of my colleagues / fellow software weenies - that in school we were required to take calc 1 & 2... yet we mostly do +1 and -1. We hardly ever use multiply. Nobody disagreed.

                        Calculus!!! I can barely spell that anymore.


                        Jong

                        On Feb 23, 2013, at 9:22 AM, "Larry Beaty" <lbeaty@...> wrote:

                        > I spent my life in Electrical Engineering and never used calculus
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