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RE: [Electronics_101] Re: where to buy a forward/reverse switch

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  • Larry Beaty
    I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered. Don t know if
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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      I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off
      switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered.
      Don't know if removing the reversing winding is allowed either.



      Larry



      From: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AlienRelics
      Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:24 AM
      To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: where to buy a forward/reverse switch





      In what way do you wire them to reverse direction?

      If you only switch two wires, any DPDT switch rated at 3A or more should
      handle it.

      Steve Greenfield AE7HD

      --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:Electronics_101%40yahoogroups.com> , "px_charles" wrote:
      >
      > The motor is a reversible, ac synchronous motor, with equal to or less
      than 0.3 A current, with 5 - 10 W input. The motor has four wires on the
      side that can be connected one way for clockwise rotation, or the other way
      for counter clockwise rotation. I don't know the hp, but I guess about 1/20
      hp.
      >
      > The forward/reverse switch connects to the four wires. It's simple, if I
      can buy a switch.
      >
      > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:Electronics_101%40yahoogroups.com> , "Andrew Mathison \(Alice\)"
      wrote:
      > >
      > > Firstly, you desperately need to describe the motor type, the voltage
      (AC or
      > > DC), the voltage level, also do you have access to all fields and
      brushes
      > > separately?
      > >
      > > For example.
      > >
      > > Reversing most universal AC, AC and DC motors is usually quite easy
      > > (assuming access to all components).....and the knowledge of what the
      motor
      > > type is...
      > >
      > > Regards
      > >
      > > Andy
      > >
      >





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • px_charles
      I appreciate all of the good advice. I should have been searching for a dpdt switch. I think I can find exactly the right part now.
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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        I appreciate all of the good advice. I should have been searching for a dpdt switch. I think I can find exactly the right part now.

        --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "px_charles" <charles@...> wrote:
        >
        > The motor is a reversible, ac synchronous motor, with equal to or less than 0.3 A current, with 5 - 10 W input. The motor has four wires on the side that can be connected one way for clockwise rotation, or the other way for counter clockwise rotation. I don't know the hp, but I guess about 1/20 hp.
        >
        > The forward/reverse switch connects to the four wires. It's simple, if I can buy a switch.
        >
        > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison \(Alice\)" <mathison@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Firstly, you desperately need to describe the motor type, the voltage (AC or
        > > DC), the voltage level, also do you have access to all fields and brushes
        > > separately?
        > >
        > > For example.
        > >
        > > Reversing most universal AC, AC and DC motors is usually quite easy
        > > (assuming access to all components).....and the knowledge of what the motor
        > > type is...
        > >
        > > Regards
        > >
        > > Andy
        > >
        >
      • rtstofer
        ... The DPDT switch can be used to change the phase relationship between the start and run windings. However, it can t also be used to switch power to the run
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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          --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Beaty" <lbeaty@...> wrote:
          >
          > I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off
          > switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered.
          > Don't know if removing the reversing winding is allowed either.
          >
          >
          >
          > Larry


          The DPDT switch can be used to change the phase relationship between the start and run windings. However, it can't also be used to switch power to the run winding. So, there is no need for a center off position and, in fact, having one is a mistake. In the off position, the motor will just growl because there is no start winding kicking off the rotation.

          If the motor has a start winding switch, it doesn't matter if the direction switch is changed while the motor is running. The winding switch will have the start winding disconnected and the motor will continue running in the same direction.

          Richard
        • AlienRelics
          Good point. Steve Greenfield AE7HD
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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            Good point.

            Steve Greenfield AE7HD

            --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Beaty" <lbeaty@...> wrote:
            >
            > I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off
            > switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered.
            > Don't know if removing the reversing winding is allowed either.
            >
            >
            >
            > Larry
            >
          • px_charles
            Thanks for the advice. The power to the motor will always be turned off before the rotation is reversed.
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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              Thanks for the advice. The power to the motor will always be turned off before the rotation is reversed.

              --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "AlienRelics" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
              >
              > Good point.
              >
              > Steve Greenfield AE7HD
              >
              > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Beaty" <lbeaty@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off
              > > switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered.
              > > Don't know if removing the reversing winding is allowed either.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Larry
              > >
              >
            • Stefan Trethan
              I added a reverse switch on my cheap drill press. It does what you say, just keeps going with a little bit of a growl if you throw it while running. I wish
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                I added a reverse switch on my cheap drill press.
                It does what you say, just keeps going with a little bit of a growl if
                you throw it while running.
                I wish they'd put a three phase motor on there.

                ST

                On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 9:16 PM, rtstofer <rstofer@...> wrote:

                > If the motor has a start winding switch, it doesn't matter if the direction switch is changed while the motor is running. The winding switch will have the start winding disconnected and the motor will continue running in the same direction.
                >
                > Richard
                >
              • px_charles
                So I guess the best way is to have one switch to turn the motor on and off, and a dbdt on/on switch to change the direction of the rotation. The dbdt switch
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                  So I guess the best way is to have one switch to turn the motor on and off, and a dbdt on/on switch to change the direction of the rotation. The dbdt switch should only be used, when the motor is not running.

                  --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "rtstofer" <rstofer@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Beaty" <lbeaty@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off
                  > > switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered.
                  > > Don't know if removing the reversing winding is allowed either.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Larry
                  >
                  >
                  > The DPDT switch can be used to change the phase relationship between the start and run windings. However, it can't also be used to switch power to the run winding. So, there is no need for a center off position and, in fact, having one is a mistake. In the off position, the motor will just growl because there is no start winding kicking off the rotation.
                  >
                  > If the motor has a start winding switch, it doesn't matter if the direction switch is changed while the motor is running. The winding switch will have the start winding disconnected and the motor will continue running in the same direction.
                  >
                  > Richard
                  >
                • Stefan Trethan
                  Yes, or use a cam switch with L-0-R positions wired appropriately, or use pushbuttons and relays/contactors. The contactor solution might be necessary if this
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                    Yes, or use a cam switch with L-0-R positions wired appropriately, or
                    use pushbuttons and relays/contactors.

                    The contactor solution might be necessary if this is a machine where
                    you must ensure it doesn't start by itself after a power loss. (That
                    or a magnetically latching on/off switch.)

                    The two switches are just fine if it is only you using the motor, so
                    it doesn't have to be idiot proof.

                    ST

                    On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 10:44 PM, px_charles
                    <charles@...> wrote:
                    > So I guess the best way is to have one switch to turn the motor on and off, and a dbdt on/on switch to change the direction of the rotation. The dbdt switch should only be used, when the motor is not running.
                    >
                  • px_charles
                    Right. All factors should be taken into consideration. Thanks again.
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                      Right. All factors should be taken into consideration. Thanks again.

                      --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Yes, or use a cam switch with L-0-R positions wired appropriately, or
                      > use pushbuttons and relays/contactors.
                      >
                      > The contactor solution might be necessary if this is a machine where
                      > you must ensure it doesn't start by itself after a power loss. (That
                      > or a magnetically latching on/off switch.)
                      >
                      > The two switches are just fine if it is only you using the motor, so
                      > it doesn't have to be idiot proof.
                      >
                      > ST
                      >
                      > On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 10:44 PM, px_charles
                      > <charles@...> wrote:
                      > > So I guess the best way is to have one switch to turn the motor on and off, and a dbdt on/on switch to change the direction of the rotation. The dbdt switch should only be used, when the motor is not running.
                      > >
                      >
                    • andrew.mathison
                      I do believe is that all you need is a double pole changeover switch, generally available from electronics shops and the like. Something like this:-
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 17, 2013
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                        I do believe is that all you need is a double pole changeover switch, generally available from electronics shops and the like.
                        Something like this:-

                        http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-250V-15A-125V-20A-DPDT-Double-Pole-Double-Throw-On-Off-On-Toggle-Switch-/321057898381?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac08abf8d

                        or this:-

                        http://www.ebay.de/itm/Durite-Switch-3-Way-Change-Over-Double-Pole-Metal-Dolly-Bg1-0-349-02-/321035788274?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4abf395ff2

                        I assume that the four wires are two for say a field winding "A" and the other two for field winding "B". You only need to reverse the polarity of one or the other, not both together, or it will continue in the same direction.

                        I assume you know how to connect the switch to one field, if you don't just ask.

                        Andy


                        --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "px_charles" <charles@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > The motor is a reversible, ac synchronous motor, with equal to or less than 0.3 A current, with 5 - 10 W input. The motor has four wires on the side that can be connected one way for clockwise rotation, or the other way for counter clockwise rotation. I don't know the hp, but I guess about 1/20 hp.
                        >
                        > The forward/reverse switch connects to the four wires. It's simple, if I can buy a switch.
                        >
                        > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison \(Alice\)" <mathison@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Firstly, you desperately need to describe the motor type, the voltage (AC or
                        > > DC), the voltage level, also do you have access to all fields and brushes
                        > > separately?
                        > >
                        > > For example.
                        > >
                        > > Reversing most universal AC, AC and DC motors is usually quite easy
                        > > (assuming access to all components).....and the knowledge of what the motor
                        > > type is...
                        > >
                        > > Regards
                        > >
                        > > Andy
                        > >
                        >
                      • DaveC
                        This sounds like a small AC sync motor with dual windings: one for forward, one for reverse. No need to reverse connections (it s AC!); just determine which
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 17, 2013
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                          This sounds like a small AC sync motor with dual windings: one for forward, one for reverse.

                          No need to reverse connections (it's AC!); just determine which wires are for each winding and connect to mains (fused, of course!) via DPDT switch.

                          Dave

                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On Feb 17, 2013, at 8:01 AM, "andrew.mathison" <mathison@...> wrote:

                          > assume that the four wires are two for say a field winding "A" and the other two for field winding "B". You only need to reverse the polarity of one or the other, not both together, or it will continue in the same direction.
                          >
                          > I assume you know how to connect the switch to one field, if you don't just ask.
                          >
                          > Andy
                        • px_charles
                          I ve been to the local electronics store. A DPDT switch works. One can also use a DPDT relay to control a reversible AC motor.
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 17, 2013
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                            I've been to the local electronics store. A DPDT switch works. One can also use a DPDT relay to control a reversible AC motor.

                            --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, DaveC <davec2468@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > This sounds like a small AC sync motor with dual windings: one for forward, one for reverse.
                            >
                            > No need to reverse connections (it's AC!); just determine which wires are for each winding and connect to mains (fused, of course!) via DPDT switch.
                            >
                            > Dave
                            >
                            > Sent from my iPhone
                            >
                            > On Feb 17, 2013, at 8:01 AM, "andrew.mathison" <mathison@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > assume that the four wires are two for say a field winding "A" and the other two for field winding "B". You only need to reverse the polarity of one or the other, not both together, or it will continue in the same direction.
                            > >
                            > > I assume you know how to connect the switch to one field, if you don't just ask.
                            > >
                            > > Andy
                            >
                          • Andrew Mathison (Alice)
                            You must reverse one field relative to the other, exactly as I wrote!!! Reversing both and the motor runs in the same direction as before. Remember - IT S
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 17, 2013
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                              You must reverse one field relative to the other, exactly as I wrote!!!
                              Reversing both and the motor runs in the same direction as before.

                              Remember - IT'S AC!!!

                              Regards

                              Andy
                            • px_charles
                              Thanks Andy. For a layman as myself, just make sure the switch is connected the right way- everything else is easy.
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 17, 2013
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                                Thanks Andy. For a layman as myself, just make sure the switch is connected the right way- everything else is easy.

                                --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison \(Alice\)" <mathison@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > You must reverse one field relative to the other, exactly as I wrote!!!
                                > Reversing both and the motor runs in the same direction as before.
                                >
                                > Remember - IT'S AC!!!
                                >
                                > Regards
                                >
                                > Andy
                                >
                              • Paul Read
                                Hi Charles, Just get a double pole change over switch and cross over the normally open and normally close contacts on each other pole. Put the supply on the
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 18, 2013
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                                  Hi Charles,

                                  Just get a double pole change over switch and cross over the normally open and normally close contacts on each other pole. Put the supply on the wiping contacts (P+ and P-) and the motor on the two normally open contacts (Ma and Mb)

                                  Ma Mb
                                  O O
                                  \ /
                                  \ /
                                  P+ O X O P-
                                  / \
                                  / \
                                  O O

                                  Cheers
                                  Paul





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