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Re: where to buy a forward/reverse switch

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  • Andrew Mathison (Alice)
    Firstly, you desperately need to describe the motor type, the voltage (AC or DC), the voltage level, also do you have access to all fields and brushes
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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      Firstly, you desperately need to describe the motor type, the voltage (AC or
      DC), the voltage level, also do you have access to all fields and brushes
      separately?

      For example.

      Reversing most universal AC, AC and DC motors is usually quite easy
      (assuming access to all components).....and the knowledge of what the motor
      type is...

      Regards

      Andy
    • px_charles
      The motor is a reversible, ac synchronous motor, with equal to or less than 0.3 A current, with 5 - 10 W input. The motor has four wires on the side that can
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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        The motor is a reversible, ac synchronous motor, with equal to or less than 0.3 A current, with 5 - 10 W input. The motor has four wires on the side that can be connected one way for clockwise rotation, or the other way for counter clockwise rotation. I don't know the hp, but I guess about 1/20 hp.

        The forward/reverse switch connects to the four wires. It's simple, if I can buy a switch.

        --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison \(Alice\)" <mathison@...> wrote:
        >
        > Firstly, you desperately need to describe the motor type, the voltage (AC or
        > DC), the voltage level, also do you have access to all fields and brushes
        > separately?
        >
        > For example.
        >
        > Reversing most universal AC, AC and DC motors is usually quite easy
        > (assuming access to all components).....and the knowledge of what the motor
        > type is...
        >
        > Regards
        >
        > Andy
        >
      • AlienRelics
        In what way do you wire them to reverse direction? If you only switch two wires, any DPDT switch rated at 3A or more should handle it. Steve Greenfield AE7HD
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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          In what way do you wire them to reverse direction?

          If you only switch two wires, any DPDT switch rated at 3A or more should handle it.

          Steve Greenfield AE7HD

          --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "px_charles" <charles@...> wrote:
          >
          > The motor is a reversible, ac synchronous motor, with equal to or less than 0.3 A current, with 5 - 10 W input. The motor has four wires on the side that can be connected one way for clockwise rotation, or the other way for counter clockwise rotation. I don't know the hp, but I guess about 1/20 hp.
          >
          > The forward/reverse switch connects to the four wires. It's simple, if I can buy a switch.
          >
          > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison \(Alice\)" <mathison@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Firstly, you desperately need to describe the motor type, the voltage (AC or
          > > DC), the voltage level, also do you have access to all fields and brushes
          > > separately?
          > >
          > > For example.
          > >
          > > Reversing most universal AC, AC and DC motors is usually quite easy
          > > (assuming access to all components).....and the knowledge of what the motor
          > > type is...
          > >
          > > Regards
          > >
          > > Andy
          > >
          >
        • rtstofer
          ... All you need is a DPDT switch to change the relationship between the start winding and the run winding. Then you need a SPDT switch to control the power
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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            --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "px_charles" <charles@...> wrote:
            >
            > The motor is a reversible, ac synchronous motor, with equal to or less than 0.3 A current, with 5 - 10 W input. The motor has four wires on the side that can be connected one way for clockwise rotation, or the other way for counter clockwise rotation. I don't know the hp, but I guess about 1/20 hp.
            >
            > The forward/reverse switch connects to the four wires. It's simple, if I can buy a switch.
            >


            All you need is a DPDT switch to change the relationship between the start winding and the run winding.

            Then you need a SPDT switch to control the power (on-off).

            Take the incoming neutral and connect it to one end of the run winding and one pole of the DPDT switch - the center connection of one side.

            Take the incoming hot wire and connect it to the SPDT switch and take the output of that switch and connect it to the other pole of the DPDT switch - the center connection of the other side.

            Then make an X on the outer set of contacts. Upper left to lower right and upper right to lower left. Then connect the start winding across one end of the X

            All this does is reverse the phase relationship between the start winding and the run winding. Connected in one direction by the DPDT switch, the start winding will kick the motor clockwise. Connected the other way, the start winding will kick the motor counterclockwise.

            If you want to do this with one switch, you need a 3PDT center off switch. There are drum switches available for this very purpose. They run about $60.

            Here's one for $45 and if you click on the link for the 1.5 HP 115V Single Phase switch, you can see the wiring diagram.

            http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.com/drum_switch.htm

            Richard
          • Larry Beaty
            I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered. Don t know if
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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              I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off
              switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered.
              Don't know if removing the reversing winding is allowed either.



              Larry



              From: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AlienRelics
              Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 11:24 AM
              To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: where to buy a forward/reverse switch





              In what way do you wire them to reverse direction?

              If you only switch two wires, any DPDT switch rated at 3A or more should
              handle it.

              Steve Greenfield AE7HD

              --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:Electronics_101%40yahoogroups.com> , "px_charles" wrote:
              >
              > The motor is a reversible, ac synchronous motor, with equal to or less
              than 0.3 A current, with 5 - 10 W input. The motor has four wires on the
              side that can be connected one way for clockwise rotation, or the other way
              for counter clockwise rotation. I don't know the hp, but I guess about 1/20
              hp.
              >
              > The forward/reverse switch connects to the four wires. It's simple, if I
              can buy a switch.
              >
              > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:Electronics_101%40yahoogroups.com> , "Andrew Mathison \(Alice\)"
              wrote:
              > >
              > > Firstly, you desperately need to describe the motor type, the voltage
              (AC or
              > > DC), the voltage level, also do you have access to all fields and
              brushes
              > > separately?
              > >
              > > For example.
              > >
              > > Reversing most universal AC, AC and DC motors is usually quite easy
              > > (assuming access to all components).....and the knowledge of what the
              motor
              > > type is...
              > >
              > > Regards
              > >
              > > Andy
              > >
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • px_charles
              I appreciate all of the good advice. I should have been searching for a dpdt switch. I think I can find exactly the right part now.
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                I appreciate all of the good advice. I should have been searching for a dpdt switch. I think I can find exactly the right part now.

                --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "px_charles" <charles@...> wrote:
                >
                > The motor is a reversible, ac synchronous motor, with equal to or less than 0.3 A current, with 5 - 10 W input. The motor has four wires on the side that can be connected one way for clockwise rotation, or the other way for counter clockwise rotation. I don't know the hp, but I guess about 1/20 hp.
                >
                > The forward/reverse switch connects to the four wires. It's simple, if I can buy a switch.
                >
                > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison \(Alice\)" <mathison@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Firstly, you desperately need to describe the motor type, the voltage (AC or
                > > DC), the voltage level, also do you have access to all fields and brushes
                > > separately?
                > >
                > > For example.
                > >
                > > Reversing most universal AC, AC and DC motors is usually quite easy
                > > (assuming access to all components).....and the knowledge of what the motor
                > > type is...
                > >
                > > Regards
                > >
                > > Andy
                > >
                >
              • rtstofer
                ... The DPDT switch can be used to change the phase relationship between the start and run windings. However, it can t also be used to switch power to the run
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                  --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Beaty" <lbeaty@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off
                  > switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered.
                  > Don't know if removing the reversing winding is allowed either.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Larry


                  The DPDT switch can be used to change the phase relationship between the start and run windings. However, it can't also be used to switch power to the run winding. So, there is no need for a center off position and, in fact, having one is a mistake. In the off position, the motor will just growl because there is no start winding kicking off the rotation.

                  If the motor has a start winding switch, it doesn't matter if the direction switch is changed while the motor is running. The winding switch will have the start winding disconnected and the motor will continue running in the same direction.

                  Richard
                • AlienRelics
                  Good point. Steve Greenfield AE7HD
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                    Good point.

                    Steve Greenfield AE7HD

                    --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Beaty" <lbeaty@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off
                    > switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered.
                    > Don't know if removing the reversing winding is allowed either.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Larry
                    >
                  • px_charles
                    Thanks for the advice. The power to the motor will always be turned off before the rotation is reversed.
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                      Thanks for the advice. The power to the motor will always be turned off before the rotation is reversed.

                      --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "AlienRelics" <alienrelics@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Good point.
                      >
                      > Steve Greenfield AE7HD
                      >
                      > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Beaty" <lbeaty@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off
                      > > switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered.
                      > > Don't know if removing the reversing winding is allowed either.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Larry
                      > >
                      >
                    • Stefan Trethan
                      I added a reverse switch on my cheap drill press. It does what you say, just keeps going with a little bit of a growl if you throw it while running. I wish
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                        I added a reverse switch on my cheap drill press.
                        It does what you say, just keeps going with a little bit of a growl if
                        you throw it while running.
                        I wish they'd put a three phase motor on there.

                        ST

                        On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 9:16 PM, rtstofer <rstofer@...> wrote:

                        > If the motor has a start winding switch, it doesn't matter if the direction switch is changed while the motor is running. The winding switch will have the start winding disconnected and the motor will continue running in the same direction.
                        >
                        > Richard
                        >
                      • px_charles
                        So I guess the best way is to have one switch to turn the motor on and off, and a dbdt on/on switch to change the direction of the rotation. The dbdt switch
                        Message 11 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                          So I guess the best way is to have one switch to turn the motor on and off, and a dbdt on/on switch to change the direction of the rotation. The dbdt switch should only be used, when the motor is not running.

                          --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "rtstofer" <rstofer@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Larry Beaty" <lbeaty@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I would suggest a three position DPDT switch: ON-OFF-ON or center off
                          > > switch. You should not switch direction on a motor while it is powered.
                          > > Don't know if removing the reversing winding is allowed either.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Larry
                          >
                          >
                          > The DPDT switch can be used to change the phase relationship between the start and run windings. However, it can't also be used to switch power to the run winding. So, there is no need for a center off position and, in fact, having one is a mistake. In the off position, the motor will just growl because there is no start winding kicking off the rotation.
                          >
                          > If the motor has a start winding switch, it doesn't matter if the direction switch is changed while the motor is running. The winding switch will have the start winding disconnected and the motor will continue running in the same direction.
                          >
                          > Richard
                          >
                        • Stefan Trethan
                          Yes, or use a cam switch with L-0-R positions wired appropriately, or use pushbuttons and relays/contactors. The contactor solution might be necessary if this
                          Message 12 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                            Yes, or use a cam switch with L-0-R positions wired appropriately, or
                            use pushbuttons and relays/contactors.

                            The contactor solution might be necessary if this is a machine where
                            you must ensure it doesn't start by itself after a power loss. (That
                            or a magnetically latching on/off switch.)

                            The two switches are just fine if it is only you using the motor, so
                            it doesn't have to be idiot proof.

                            ST

                            On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 10:44 PM, px_charles
                            <charles@...> wrote:
                            > So I guess the best way is to have one switch to turn the motor on and off, and a dbdt on/on switch to change the direction of the rotation. The dbdt switch should only be used, when the motor is not running.
                            >
                          • px_charles
                            Right. All factors should be taken into consideration. Thanks again.
                            Message 13 of 20 , Feb 16, 2013
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                              Right. All factors should be taken into consideration. Thanks again.

                              --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Yes, or use a cam switch with L-0-R positions wired appropriately, or
                              > use pushbuttons and relays/contactors.
                              >
                              > The contactor solution might be necessary if this is a machine where
                              > you must ensure it doesn't start by itself after a power loss. (That
                              > or a magnetically latching on/off switch.)
                              >
                              > The two switches are just fine if it is only you using the motor, so
                              > it doesn't have to be idiot proof.
                              >
                              > ST
                              >
                              > On Sat, Feb 16, 2013 at 10:44 PM, px_charles
                              > <charles@...> wrote:
                              > > So I guess the best way is to have one switch to turn the motor on and off, and a dbdt on/on switch to change the direction of the rotation. The dbdt switch should only be used, when the motor is not running.
                              > >
                              >
                            • andrew.mathison
                              I do believe is that all you need is a double pole changeover switch, generally available from electronics shops and the like. Something like this:-
                              Message 14 of 20 , Feb 17, 2013
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                                I do believe is that all you need is a double pole changeover switch, generally available from electronics shops and the like.
                                Something like this:-

                                http://www.ebay.com/itm/AC-250V-15A-125V-20A-DPDT-Double-Pole-Double-Throw-On-Off-On-Toggle-Switch-/321057898381?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac08abf8d

                                or this:-

                                http://www.ebay.de/itm/Durite-Switch-3-Way-Change-Over-Double-Pole-Metal-Dolly-Bg1-0-349-02-/321035788274?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4abf395ff2

                                I assume that the four wires are two for say a field winding "A" and the other two for field winding "B". You only need to reverse the polarity of one or the other, not both together, or it will continue in the same direction.

                                I assume you know how to connect the switch to one field, if you don't just ask.

                                Andy


                                --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "px_charles" <charles@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > The motor is a reversible, ac synchronous motor, with equal to or less than 0.3 A current, with 5 - 10 W input. The motor has four wires on the side that can be connected one way for clockwise rotation, or the other way for counter clockwise rotation. I don't know the hp, but I guess about 1/20 hp.
                                >
                                > The forward/reverse switch connects to the four wires. It's simple, if I can buy a switch.
                                >
                                > --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison \(Alice\)" <mathison@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Firstly, you desperately need to describe the motor type, the voltage (AC or
                                > > DC), the voltage level, also do you have access to all fields and brushes
                                > > separately?
                                > >
                                > > For example.
                                > >
                                > > Reversing most universal AC, AC and DC motors is usually quite easy
                                > > (assuming access to all components).....and the knowledge of what the motor
                                > > type is...
                                > >
                                > > Regards
                                > >
                                > > Andy
                                > >
                                >
                              • DaveC
                                This sounds like a small AC sync motor with dual windings: one for forward, one for reverse. No need to reverse connections (it s AC!); just determine which
                                Message 15 of 20 , Feb 17, 2013
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                                  This sounds like a small AC sync motor with dual windings: one for forward, one for reverse.

                                  No need to reverse connections (it's AC!); just determine which wires are for each winding and connect to mains (fused, of course!) via DPDT switch.

                                  Dave

                                  Sent from my iPhone

                                  On Feb 17, 2013, at 8:01 AM, "andrew.mathison" <mathison@...> wrote:

                                  > assume that the four wires are two for say a field winding "A" and the other two for field winding "B". You only need to reverse the polarity of one or the other, not both together, or it will continue in the same direction.
                                  >
                                  > I assume you know how to connect the switch to one field, if you don't just ask.
                                  >
                                  > Andy
                                • px_charles
                                  I ve been to the local electronics store. A DPDT switch works. One can also use a DPDT relay to control a reversible AC motor.
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Feb 17, 2013
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                                    I've been to the local electronics store. A DPDT switch works. One can also use a DPDT relay to control a reversible AC motor.

                                    --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, DaveC <davec2468@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > This sounds like a small AC sync motor with dual windings: one for forward, one for reverse.
                                    >
                                    > No need to reverse connections (it's AC!); just determine which wires are for each winding and connect to mains (fused, of course!) via DPDT switch.
                                    >
                                    > Dave
                                    >
                                    > Sent from my iPhone
                                    >
                                    > On Feb 17, 2013, at 8:01 AM, "andrew.mathison" <mathison@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > assume that the four wires are two for say a field winding "A" and the other two for field winding "B". You only need to reverse the polarity of one or the other, not both together, or it will continue in the same direction.
                                    > >
                                    > > I assume you know how to connect the switch to one field, if you don't just ask.
                                    > >
                                    > > Andy
                                    >
                                  • Andrew Mathison (Alice)
                                    You must reverse one field relative to the other, exactly as I wrote!!! Reversing both and the motor runs in the same direction as before. Remember - IT S
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Feb 17, 2013
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                                      You must reverse one field relative to the other, exactly as I wrote!!!
                                      Reversing both and the motor runs in the same direction as before.

                                      Remember - IT'S AC!!!

                                      Regards

                                      Andy
                                    • px_charles
                                      Thanks Andy. For a layman as myself, just make sure the switch is connected the right way- everything else is easy.
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Feb 17, 2013
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                                        Thanks Andy. For a layman as myself, just make sure the switch is connected the right way- everything else is easy.

                                        --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Mathison \(Alice\)" <mathison@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > You must reverse one field relative to the other, exactly as I wrote!!!
                                        > Reversing both and the motor runs in the same direction as before.
                                        >
                                        > Remember - IT'S AC!!!
                                        >
                                        > Regards
                                        >
                                        > Andy
                                        >
                                      • Paul Read
                                        Hi Charles, Just get a double pole change over switch and cross over the normally open and normally close contacts on each other pole. Put the supply on the
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Feb 18, 2013
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                                          Hi Charles,

                                          Just get a double pole change over switch and cross over the normally open and normally close contacts on each other pole. Put the supply on the wiping contacts (P+ and P-) and the motor on the two normally open contacts (Ma and Mb)

                                          Ma Mb
                                          O O
                                          \ /
                                          \ /
                                          P+ O X O P-
                                          / \
                                          / \
                                          O O

                                          Cheers
                                          Paul





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