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Re: [Electronics_101] power cords

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  • Randy
    I don t know if it s true, or not, but I ve read that aircraft equipment installations absolutely forbid the use of soldered connections; everything must be
    Message 1 of 26 , Oct 1, 2010
      I don't know if it's true, or not, but I've read that aircraft equipment
      installations absolutely forbid the use of soldered connections; everything
      must be crimped. Anybody out there that can fill us in? In my mind,
      I'd think that a "proper" crimp connection, with a soldered joint
      beyond the crimp, allowing the crimp to act as a strain relief, would,
      technically be superior, but I'm sure that that wouldn't make ANY
      regulatory body happy, the crimp-haters vs. the solder-haters.

      And, as others have hinted at: Burning down your house to save a
      few bucks is generally not cost-effective... replace the whole device,
      replace the whole cord, or replace the plug, as Stefan suggested,
      at the present crimp location, and use a suitable extension cord.


      73,
      Randy
      KZ4RV

      On 10/1/2010 12:17 PM, Stefan Trethan wrote:
      >
      > Crimped connections are often worthless unless done with the right
      > (good quality) tool using the right procedure. Heaters draw a lot of
      > current, so it's easy to create a dangerous situation where stuff
      > might burn down.
      >
      > Can you just install a new plug on the (now shorter) cable and use an
      > extension cord to power it?
      >
      > Another clean solution would be to open the heater and replace the
      > entire cord.
      >
      > There are very few, if any, cable splice options that would fulfill my
      > requirements regarding workmanship and safety. Splicing an appliance
      > cord is going to end up an ugly bodge no matter how neat you try to
      > make it.
      >
      > I think a warning about solder is in order, it doesn't really have a
      > place in electrical work today. Soldered connections of stranded wires
      > that are moved break where the solder joint ends. Also one must never
      > ever tin (solder) the end of stranded wires and then clamp them in any
      > type of terminal such as on a plug. The solder flows with time,
      > leading to a loose connection after just a few months (guaranteed),
      > instead a ferrule must be used. The cold flow of solder can be
      > impressively demonstrated by winding a spiral of solder wire and
      > hanging it up somewhere by one end, in a few hours you will find it
      > much stretched.
      >
      > ST
      >
      > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 4:00 PM, nards_otc <nards_otc@...
      > <mailto:nards_otc%40yahoo.com.au>> wrote:
      > > Recently a small heater (24ov ac), was involved in an accident and
      > its plug was damaged.
      > >
      > > In my spares-cupboard I found a cord from another appliance, which
      > died ages ago.
      > >
      > > Me being me, crimped the new cords together (blue crimps), covered
      > the join with insulating tape, and fixed both ends of the join with
      > cable ties.
      > >
      > > Since then I have noticed that the join is getting hot, hotter than
      > the rest of the cord, and hot enough for me to start restricting its use.
      > >
      > > Any ideas on how I can keep the heater going (can't afford to
      > replace it.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Please trim excess when replyingYahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > No virus found in this incoming message.
      > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
      > Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3170 - Release Date: 10/01/10 06:34:00
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James M. (Jim) Geidl
      The Mil Spec crimpers even put a notation on the crimp indicating when it is done properly. BTW, those crimpers are EXPENSIVE. James M. Jim Geidl, K6JMG No
      Message 2 of 26 , Oct 1, 2010
        The Mil Spec crimpers even put a notation on the crimp indicating when it is
        done properly. BTW, those crimpers are EXPENSIVE.

        James M. "Jim" Geidl, K6JMG

        No trees were harmed in the sending of this message; however, a large number
        of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.






        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
        > [mailto:Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Randy
        > Sent: Friday, October 01, 2010 8:01 PM
        > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] power cords
        >
        > I don't know if it's true, or not, but I've read that
        > aircraft equipment installations absolutely forbid the use of
        > soldered connections; everything must be crimped. Anybody out
        > there that can fill us in? In my mind, I'd think that a
        > "proper" crimp connection, with a soldered joint beyond the
        > crimp, allowing the crimp to act as a strain relief, would,
        > technically be superior, but I'm sure that that wouldn't make
        > ANY regulatory body happy, the crimp-haters vs. the solder-haters.
        >
        > And, as others have hinted at: Burning down your house to
        > save a few bucks is generally not cost-effective... replace
        > the whole device, replace the whole cord, or replace the
        > plug, as Stefan suggested, at the present crimp location, and
        > use a suitable extension cord.
        >
        >
        > 73,
        > Randy
        > KZ4RV
        >
        > On 10/1/2010 12:17 PM, Stefan Trethan wrote:
        > >
        > > Crimped connections are often worthless unless done with the right
        > > (good quality) tool using the right procedure. Heaters draw
        > a lot of
        > > current, so it's easy to create a dangerous situation where stuff
        > > might burn down.
        > >
        > > Can you just install a new plug on the (now shorter) cable
        > and use an
        > > extension cord to power it?
        > >
        > > Another clean solution would be to open the heater and replace the
        > > entire cord.
        > >
        > > There are very few, if any, cable splice options that would
        > fulfill my
        > > requirements regarding workmanship and safety. Splicing an
        > appliance
        > > cord is going to end up an ugly bodge no matter how neat you try to
        > > make it.
        > >
        > > I think a warning about solder is in order, it doesn't
        > really have a
        > > place in electrical work today. Soldered connections of
        > stranded wires
        > > that are moved break where the solder joint ends. Also one
        > must never
        > > ever tin (solder) the end of stranded wires and then clamp
        > them in any
        > > type of terminal such as on a plug. The solder flows with time,
        > > leading to a loose connection after just a few months (guaranteed),
        > > instead a ferrule must be used. The cold flow of solder can be
        > > impressively demonstrated by winding a spiral of solder wire and
        > > hanging it up somewhere by one end, in a few hours you will find it
        > > much stretched.
        > >
        > > ST
        > >
        > > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 4:00 PM, nards_otc <nards_otc@...
        > > <mailto:nards_otc%40yahoo.com.au>> wrote:
        > > > Recently a small heater (24ov ac), was involved in an accident and
        > > its plug was damaged.
        > > >
        > > > In my spares-cupboard I found a cord from another appliance, which
        > > died ages ago.
        > > >
        > > > Me being me, crimped the new cords together (blue crimps), covered
        > > the join with insulating tape, and fixed both ends of the join with
        > > cable ties.
        > > >
        > > > Since then I have noticed that the join is getting hot,
        > hotter than
        > > the rest of the cord, and hot enough for me to start
        > restricting its use.
        > > >
        > > > Any ideas on how I can keep the heater going (can't afford to
        > > replace it.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > Please trim excess when replyingYahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > No virus found in this incoming message.
        > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
        > > Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3170 - Release Date:
        > > 10/01/10 06:34:00
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Please trim excess when replyingYahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Stefan Trethan
        A proper crimp connection in it s own is perfectly good, although some crimped connections in the automotive area are soldered after crimping. (Again using a
        Message 3 of 26 , Oct 1, 2010
          A proper crimp connection in it's own is perfectly good, although some
          crimped connections in the automotive area are soldered after
          crimping. (Again using a well defined process, not some $3 crimping
          pliers from the car parts store and a $5 iron from radio shack).

          What I forgot to say about appliance cords:
          They come in different wire gauges, according to the current draw of
          the device that is powered.
          So it can be dangerous to replace a heater cord with say one from a
          clock radio. Always check to make sure it is heavy enough.

          ST


          On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 5:00 AM, Randy <randy@...> wrote:
          >  I don't know if it's true, or not, but I've read that aircraft equipment
          > installations absolutely forbid the use of soldered connections; everything
          > must be crimped. Anybody out there that can fill us in? In my mind,
          > I'd think that a "proper" crimp connection, with a soldered joint
          > beyond the crimp, allowing the crimp to act as a strain relief, would,
          > technically be superior, but I'm sure that that wouldn't make ANY
          > regulatory body happy, the crimp-haters vs. the solder-haters.
          >
        • wrtner
          ... I think this applies to motorcycles. It might be to do with vibration. Is wire wrap still in use?
          Message 4 of 26 , Oct 2, 2010
            > Randy <randy@...> wrote:
            > I've read that aircraft equipment
            > installations absolutely forbid the use of soldered
            > connections; everything must be crimped...
            >
            I think this applies to motorcycles. It might be to do
            with vibration.

            Is "wire wrap" still in use?
          • Stefan Trethan
            I think it is as good as gone. You can still get the wire and tools, maybe some stuff is still up and running but certainly no new designs for many years....
            Message 5 of 26 , Oct 2, 2010
              I think it is as good as gone. You can still get the wire and tools,
              maybe some stuff is still up and running but certainly no new designs
              for many years....

              Wire wrap had a similar problem with wire breaking at the point where
              it was stripped. To avoid this a couple of turns of isolated wire was
              also wrapped around the pin, acting as a strain relief.
              <http://www.homebrewcpu.com/Pictures/wire_wrap_closeup.jpg>

              Proper crimped joints always include this strain relief, while
              soldered connections usually do not, another advantage.
              <http://images.pennnet.com/articles/cs/thm/th_crimp%2001.gif>

              Here are a few other not-so-recommended repair techniques:
              <http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/7d185aaf-43f0-4e58-bd74-9edb5fba29e1.jpg>
              <http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/129127478914654330.jpg>
              <http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/yoshi-keys.jpg?w=500&h=375>
              <http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/dirk-switch.jpg?w=338&h=450>
              <http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/129093766659278465.jpg?w=500&h=375>
              <http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/129072652699471246.jpg?w=500&h=370>
              <http://thereifixedit.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/129188377031888100.jpg>

              ST



              On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 12:43 PM, wrtner <wrtner@...> wrote:

              > Is "wire wrap" still in use?
              >
              >
            • Clark Thomasson
              solder each wire connection. Then insulate each as you already have. ... plug was damaged. ... ages ago. ... join with insulating tape, and fixed both ends of
              Message 6 of 26 , Oct 2, 2010
                solder each wire connection. Then insulate each as you already have.
                On Oct 1, 2010 9:00 AM, "nards_otc" <nards_otc@...> wrote:
                > Recently a small heater (24ov ac), was involved in an accident and its
                plug was damaged.
                >
                > In my spares-cupboard I found a cord from another appliance, which died
                ages ago.
                >
                > Me being me, crimped the new cords together (blue crimps), covered the
                join with insulating tape, and fixed both ends of the join with cable ties.
                >
                > Since then I have noticed that the join is getting hot, hotter than the
                rest of the cord, and hot enough for me to start restricting its use.
                >
                > Any ideas on how I can keep the heater going (can't afford to replace it.
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • rtstofer
                ... It may also have to do with EMI and 10,000 little antennas. The technique might also limit frequency of operation. Besides, DIP packages are going the
                Message 7 of 26 , Oct 2, 2010
                  --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I think it is as good as gone. You can still get the wire and tools,
                  > maybe some stuff is still up and running but certainly no new designs
                  > for many years....

                  It may also have to do with EMI and 10,000 little antennas. The technique might also limit frequency of operation. Besides, DIP packages are going the way of the dinosaur.

                  I still use wire-wrap from time to time. I can get small prototype PCBs from Radio Shack which have a grid hole pattern (plated pads on the bottom surface) and power/ground buses. I just solder a couple of the pins on each DIP socket to hold it in place and wire-wrap the rest. Pretty good density, all things considered.

                  Having a first class Cut-Strip-Wrap gun makes the process workable. The little hand wrap tool (like a pencil) doesn't usually result in a uniform wrap.

                  I can remember writing a little Fortran program (for my Altair 8800) to take the net list as input and produce a wrapping schedule such that the total length was minimized and the wrapping was done in layers and not staggered top-to-bottom, top-to-bottom. With layer wrapping it is pretty easy to make changes.

                  Richard
                • nards_otc
                  I would have replaced the plug, except that plugs were not available. Except for the plugs in my stash which had cords attached, which is what I used. Besides
                  Message 8 of 26 , Oct 3, 2010
                    I would have replaced the plug, except that plugs were not available. Except for the plugs in my stash which had cords attached, which is what I used.

                    Besides the extra extension was useful. I have a lamp with a similar modification, but it lacks an earth pin.

                    This week, I'll buy a new plug and do a proper job.






                    --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, lists <Stuartlists@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > In article <i84ph8+bb4p@...>,
                    > nards_otc <nards_otc@...> wrote:
                    > > Recently a small heater (24ov ac), was involved in an accident and its
                    > > plug was damaged.
                    >
                    > > In my spares-cupboard I found a cord from another appliance, which died
                    > > ages ago.
                    >
                    > > Me being me, crimped the new cords together (blue crimps), covered the
                    > > join with insulating tape, and fixed both ends of the join with cable
                    > > ties.
                    >
                    > > Since then I have noticed that the join is getting hot, hotter than the
                    > > rest of the cord, and hot enough for me to start restricting its use.
                    >
                    > I'm not surprised!
                    >
                    > > Any ideas on how I can keep the heater going (can't afford to replace it.
                    >
                    > If the plug was damaged why not just replace the plug?
                    >
                    > --
                    > Stuart Winsor
                    >
                  • nards_otc
                    I considered openening up the heater and replacing the entire cord, except that the screws holding the case togther are triangluar, not philips head. I showed
                    Message 9 of 26 , Oct 3, 2010
                      I considered openening up the heater and replacing the entire cord, except that the screws holding the case togther are triangluar, not philips head.

                      I showed this to the guys at trade school the other week, when I was blowing the heater with compressed air to clean out the dust.

                      No-one had seen screws like it, I think I have seen screwdrivers in speciality shops in larger towns. I should ask a sparky mate about it.

                      I was thinking of buying a small triangular file and cutting it down to the right profile.

                      The easiest way to solve the problem though will be to replace the plug.





                      --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Crimped connections are often worthless unless done with the right
                      > (good quality) tool using the right procedure. Heaters draw a lot of
                      > current, so it's easy to create a dangerous situation where stuff
                      > might burn down.
                      >
                      > Can you just install a new plug on the (now shorter) cable and use an
                      > extension cord to power it?
                      >
                      > Another clean solution would be to open the heater and replace the entire cord.
                      >
                      > There are very few, if any, cable splice options that would fulfill my
                      > requirements regarding workmanship and safety. Splicing an appliance
                      > cord is going to end up an ugly bodge no matter how neat you try to
                      > make it.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I think a warning about solder is in order, it doesn't really have a
                      > place in electrical work today. Soldered connections of stranded wires
                      > that are moved break where the solder joint ends. Also one must never
                      > ever tin (solder) the end of stranded wires and then clamp them in any
                      > type of terminal such as on a plug. The solder flows with time,
                      > leading to a loose connection after just a few months (guaranteed),
                      > instead a ferrule must be used. The cold flow of solder can be
                      > impressively demonstrated by winding a spiral of solder wire and
                      > hanging it up somewhere by one end, in a few hours you will find it
                      > much stretched.
                      >
                      > ST
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 4:00 PM, nards_otc <nards_otc@...> wrote:
                      > > Recently a small heater (24ov ac), was involved in an accident and its plug was damaged.
                      > >
                      > > In my spares-cupboard I found a cord from another appliance, which died ages ago.
                      > >
                      > > Me being me, crimped the new cords together (blue crimps), covered the join with insulating tape, and fixed both ends of the join with cable ties.
                      > >
                      > > Since then I have noticed that the join is getting hot, hotter than the rest of the cord, and hot enough for me to start restricting its use.
                      > >
                      > > Any ideas on how I can keep the heater going (can't afford to replace it.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ------------------------------------
                      > >
                      > > Please trim excess when replyingYahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • nards_otc
                      Thanks Stefan, you have confirmed one of my suspicions that the two power cords were of different guages. New new cords and plug, do heat up more than the
                      Message 10 of 26 , Oct 3, 2010
                        Thanks Stefan, you have confirmed one of my suspicions that the two power cords were of different guages. New new cords and plug, do heat up more than the original.

                        OK, I am off to buy a new plug.




                        --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, Stefan Trethan <stefan_trethan@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > A proper crimp connection in it's own is perfectly good, although some
                        > crimped connections in the automotive area are soldered after
                        > crimping. (Again using a well defined process, not some $3 crimping
                        > pliers from the car parts store and a $5 iron from radio shack).
                        >
                        > What I forgot to say about appliance cords:
                        > They come in different wire gauges, according to the current draw of
                        > the device that is powered.
                        > So it can be dangerous to replace a heater cord with say one from a
                        > clock radio. Always check to make sure it is heavy enough.
                        >
                        > ST
                        >
                        >
                        > On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 5:00 AM, Randy <randy@...> wrote:
                        > >  I don't know if it's true, or not, but I've read that aircraft equipment
                        > > installations absolutely forbid the use of soldered connections; everything
                        > > must be crimped. Anybody out there that can fill us in? In my mind,
                        > > I'd think that a "proper" crimp connection, with a soldered joint
                        > > beyond the crimp, allowing the crimp to act as a strain relief, would,
                        > > technically be superior, but I'm sure that that wouldn't make ANY
                        > > regulatory body happy, the crimp-haters vs. the solder-haters.
                        > >
                        >
                      • Stefan Trethan
                        I have a few sets of tamper-proof screwdriver bits, but none contains the triangular ones. So I just ground a crappy one into the right shape. I m not sure why
                        Message 11 of 26 , Oct 3, 2010
                          I have a few sets of tamper-proof screwdriver bits, but none contains
                          the triangular ones. So I just ground a crappy one into the right
                          shape.

                          I'm not sure why they even bother with those annoying screws. If I
                          want to I _will_ get in there, and it's no safer to force people into
                          hacks such as splicing the cable externally.

                          The worst are those oval head ones:
                          <http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a-Phillips-is-not-a-Phillips-Plus-So-Much-Mor/step7/Oval-Head-Security-Screw/>

                          ST

                          On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 9:14 AM, nards_otc <nards_otc@...> wrote:
                          > I considered openening up the heater and replacing the entire cord, except that the screws holding the case togther are triangluar, not philips head.
                          >
                          > I showed this to the guys at trade school the other week, when I was blowing the heater with compressed air to clean out the dust.
                          >
                          > No-one had seen screws like it, I think I have seen screwdrivers in speciality shops in larger towns. I should ask a sparky mate about it.
                          >
                          > I was thinking of buying a small triangular file and cutting it down to the right profile.
                          >
                          > The easiest way to solve the problem though will be to replace the plug.
                          >
                          >
                        • jong kung
                          ... If you mean the grind the screw driver, there s another way.  Use a dremel bit (rotary tool) to cut a slot across the security screw s head.  It
                          Message 12 of 26 , Oct 3, 2010
                            > I have a few sets of tamper-proof screwdriver bits, but none contains

                            > the triangular ones. So I just ground a crappy one into the right

                            > shape.

                            If you mean the grind the screw driver, there's another way.  Use a dremel bit (rotary tool) to cut a slot across the security screw's head.  It effectively creates a screw driver slot for any old slotted screw driver to fit.  The ONLY thing is that if the head isn't big enough, you can't cut a slot deep enough for the screw driver to grab the head.

                            The advantage here is that you don't need to keep messing up a screw driver for each of these security screw types.

                            =====

                            > I'm not sure why they even bother with those annoying screws. If I

                            > want to I _will_ get in there,

                            Maybe it isn't for security after all (despite the name)

                            I suspect that there are plenty of people might be able to fix something - except the tiniest hurdle will prevent them from even trying.

                            Like you said, if you wanted to bad enough...


                            Jong















                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Stefan Trethan
                            That only works as long as the screws are not recessed. ST
                            Message 13 of 26 , Oct 3, 2010
                              That only works as long as the screws are not recessed.

                              ST

                              On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 10:58 AM, jong kung <jongkung01@...> wrote:

                              > If you mean the grind the screw driver, there's another way.  Use a dremel bit (rotary tool) to cut a slot across the security screw's head.  It effectively creates a screw driver slot for any old slotted screw driver to fit.  The ONLY thing is that if the head isn't big enough, you can't cut a slot deep enough for the screw driver to grab the head.
                              >
                              > The advantage here is that you don't need to keep messing up a screw driver for each of these security screw types.
                              >
                            • kabowers@NorthState.net
                              ... You will need to anneal the file first or it will probably snap with the first use. Files are VERY hard, but VERY brittle. Keith Bowers WB4LSJ-
                              Message 14 of 26 , Oct 3, 2010
                                On Sun, 03 Oct 2010 07:14:30 -0000, you wrote:

                                >I considered openening up the heater and replacing the entire cord, except that the screws holding the case togther are triangluar, not philips head.
                                >
                                >I showed this to the guys at trade school the other week, when I was blowing the heater with compressed air to clean out the dust.
                                >
                                >No-one had seen screws like it, I think I have seen screwdrivers in speciality shops in larger towns. I should ask a sparky mate about it.
                                >
                                >I was thinking of buying a small triangular file and cutting it down to the right profile.
                                >
                                >
                                You will need to anneal the file first or it will probably snap with the first use.

                                Files are VERY hard, but VERY brittle.

                                Keith Bowers WB4LSJ- Thomasville, NC
                              • lists
                                In article , ... Ah, yes, another method, which is part of a common system that manufacturers use, to try to force us to a) replace
                                Message 15 of 26 , Oct 3, 2010
                                  In article <i89agm+8qmm@...>,
                                  nards_otc <nards_otc@...> wrote:
                                  > I considered openening up the heater and replacing the entire cord,
                                  > except that the screws holding the case togther are triangluar, not
                                  > philips head.

                                  > I showed this to the guys at trade school the other week, when I was
                                  > blowing the heater with compressed air to clean out the dust.

                                  > No-one had seen screws like it, I think I have seen screwdrivers in
                                  > speciality shops in larger towns. I should ask a sparky mate about it.

                                  Ah, yes, another method, which is part of a common system that
                                  manufacturers use, to try to force us to a) replace the failed item by
                                  buying new or b) take it their own (expensive) repair agent.

                                  Instead it just forces ordinary mortals to make potentially dangerous,
                                  bodged repairs.

                                  There are lots of safety regulations and requirements for safety testing
                                  and approvals but it's high time it was illegal to make the simple
                                  replacement of a damaged power lead by the user difficult.

                                  I am a volunteer for a charity that takes old tools, refurbishes them and
                                  sends that out to (mostly) Africa to give a guy tools to earn a living. I
                                  see many electric power tools that we have to scrap because the mains lead
                                  is damaged. Not that I don't try to repair but sometimes it is impossible.

                                  I have handled a lot of Black and Decker drills where the strain relief
                                  seems to have been moulded, glued or welded onto the lead and the lead
                                  cannot be extracted to be replaced. It makes my blood boil does that. We
                                  are all supposed to be into recycling these days yet we have manufacturers
                                  deliberately making it hard to do that.

                                  <Rant over>

                                  Sorry.

                                  --
                                  Stuart Winsor
                                • Herbert E. Plett
                                  rarely possible... usually the screws are deeply recessed in the plastic enclosure. first you have to get them out, then you can cut them to reassemble.
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Oct 3, 2010
                                    rarely possible...
                                    usually the screws are deeply recessed in the plastic enclosure.
                                    first you have to get them out, then you can cut them to reassemble.


                                    --- On Sun, 10/3/10, jong kung <jongkung01@...> wrote:
                                    > If you mean the grind the screw driver, there's another
                                    > way.  Use a dremel bit (rotary tool) to cut a slot across
                                    > the security screw's head.  It effectively creates a screw
                                    > driver slot for any old slotted screw driver to fit.  The
                                    > ONLY thing is that if the head isn't big enough, you can't
                                    > cut a slot deep enough for the screw driver to grab the
                                    > head.
                                  • jong kung
                                    ... My experience has been different (obviously).  I ve cut slots into many strange heads with success.  Before I knew what they were, I cut slots into torx
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Oct 4, 2010
                                      >> Use a dremel bit (rotary tool) to cut a slot across

                                      >> the security screw's head.  It effectively creates a screw

                                      >> driver slot for any old slotted screw driver to fit. 

                                      > rarely possible...

                                      > usually the screws are deeply recessed in the plastic enclosure.


                                      My experience has been different (obviously).  I've cut slots into many strange heads with success.  Before I knew what they were, I cut slots into torx screw heads, security torx head, and even heads with those weird triangle or square drives.

                                      One problem is that with really small screw heads, the thickness of the dremel cutter might be too WIDE and 2 "halves" of the screw heads just fall off when even slight pressure is applied.

                                      ====

                                      I'm not saying my method ALWAYS works.  But the few security screws I've seen were not recessed / flush.  Besides if there were recessed (or flush), I would possibly try these:

                                      http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00952154000P

                                      Anybody have experience with these ?


                                      Jong















                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Stefan Trethan
                                      They make thinner cutting wheels for straight grinders too, which are better suited for small screws than the large ones from Dremel. I have a different set of
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Oct 4, 2010
                                        They make thinner cutting wheels for straight grinders too, which are
                                        better suited for small screws than the large ones from Dremel.

                                        I have a different set of screw extractors, like this:
                                        <http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00966202000P?mv=rr>

                                        They are not particularly useful, but that may be because they are
                                        meant for larger screws. The set you linked to might be more useful.

                                        ST

                                        On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 2:27 PM, jong kung <jongkung01@...> wrote:

                                        > My experience has been different (obviously).  I've cut slots into many strange heads with success.  Before I knew what they were, I cut slots into torx screw heads, security torx head, and even heads with those weird triangle or square drives.
                                        >
                                        > One problem is that with really small screw heads, the thickness of the dremel cutter might be too WIDE and 2 "halves" of the screw heads just fall off when even slight pressure is applied.
                                        >
                                        > ====
                                        >
                                        > I'm not saying my method ALWAYS works.  But the few security screws I've seen were not recessed / flush.  Besides if there were recessed (or flush), I would possibly try these:
                                        >
                                        > http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00952154000P
                                        >
                                        > Anybody have experience with these ?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Jong
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                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                        >
                                        > Please trim excess when replyingYahoo! Groups Links
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                                      • Reese
                                        ... Don t forget Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/100-piece-security-bit-set-91310.html Reese
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Oct 4, 2010
                                          At 03:14 03 10 10, nards_otc wrote:

                                          >I considered openening up the heater and replacing the entire cord,
                                          >except that the screws holding the case togther are triangluar, not
                                          >philips head.
                                          >
                                          >I showed this to the guys at trade school the other week, when I was
                                          >blowing the heater with compressed air to clean out the dust.


                                          Don't forget Harbor Freight:

                                          http://www.harborfreight.com/100-piece-security-bit-set-91310.html

                                          Reese
                                        • Stefan Trethan
                                          Doesn t have the triangle bits as far as I can tell. Dealextreme has a few sets with the triangle ones, but I don t know if the quality is decent. (shiny
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Oct 4, 2010
                                            Doesn't have the triangle bits as far as I can tell.

                                            Dealextreme has a few sets with the triangle ones, but I don't know if
                                            the quality is decent.
                                            (shiny chrome plating is not something that instills trust in screwdriver bits).

                                            ST

                                            On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Reese <reeza@...> wrote:

                                            > Don't forget Harbor Freight:
                                            >
                                            > http://www.harborfreight.com/100-piece-security-bit-set-91310.html
                                            >
                                            > Reese
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • jong kung
                                            ... Thanks ST.  As always, you are great source of info (not just electronics).  When you retire, you should really consider teaching.  If not full time, at
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Oct 4, 2010
                                              > They make thinner cutting wheels for straight
                                              > grinders too, which are better suited for small
                                              > screws than the large ones from Dremel.


                                              Thanks ST.  As always, you are great source of info (not just electronics).  When you retire, you should really consider teaching.  If not full time, at least some sort of technology club (in schools) where kids WANT to learn about things.

                                              I bought one of those giant 200 or so bit set (I forget the exact numbers), so I haven't even looked to see if there different kinds of cutting wheels. 

                                              There's goes more of my money...


                                              ======

                                              > The set you linked to might be more useful.

                                              I have no experience with them at all.  But I saw this on TV:

                                              http://woodworker.com/fullpres.asp?PARTNUM=137-432&LARGEVIEW=ON

                                              The GRABBIT screw remover comes with matching burnishing end.  No need to go find metal cutting drill bits, etc...

                                              Again NO personal experience.


                                              Jong















                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Stefan Trethan
                                              ... Not much of it, since you want the cheapest ones which are non fiber reinforced and very thin. ... They sell the exact same on ebay here. Might get one for
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Oct 4, 2010
                                                On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 5:36 PM, jong kung <jongkung01@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > There's goes more of my money...
                                                >

                                                Not much of it, since you want the cheapest ones which are non fiber
                                                reinforced and very thin.


                                                > http://woodworker.com/fullpres.asp?PARTNUM=137-432&LARGEVIEW=ON
                                                >
                                                > The GRABBIT screw remover comes with matching burnishing end.  No need to go find metal cutting drill bits, etc...

                                                They sell the exact same on ebay here. Might get one for those pesky
                                                stripped screws.
                                                There's also a liquid that you put on the screwdriver which they say
                                                increases friction, might be worth a try.

                                                Teaching I don't think I could stand. Two of the guys who did my job
                                                before me went teaching, that's enough for a while.

                                                ST
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