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Re: Best way to remove enamel from windind wire?

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  • orvillefpike
    What s a CCL coil? ... wire compressed against the steel mandrel for the inner ground connection, This is traditionally done with and inch or so taped with a
    Message 1 of 25 , Sep 2, 2007
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      What's a CCL coil?


      --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "AnaLog Services, Inc."
      <wireline@...> wrote:
      >
      > I wind lots of CCL coils. Some versions depend on a length of bare
      wire compressed against the steel mandrel for the inner ground
      connection, This is traditionally done with and inch or so taped
      with a tiny piece of kapton, Teflon, or fiberglass high temperature
      tape. To produce a more dependable product, I like to have several
      wraps of bare wire at the mandrel. These things may have 10,000 to
      50,000 turns so a few wasted to insure a good ground does nothing but
      help.
      >
      > See: http://www.logwell.com/tech/CCL/CCL_coil.html
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Stefan Trethan
      > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 11:32 AM
      > Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
      windind wire?
      >
      >
      > On 9/2/07, AnaLog Services, Inc. <wireline@...> wrote:
      > > Don't waste your time on this nonsense. Any over unity results
      are the result of misunderstandings and mismeasurements. There are no
      free lunches.
      > >
      >
      > There'll be free lunches well before there's free energy ;-)
      >
      > I have been puzzled by your comment that you need to sand 2 or 3
      feet
      > of magnet wire. May i ask what you need to sand such a length
      for? I
      > just can't think of anything.
      >
      > ST
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • AnaLog Services, Inc.
      Casing collar locator coil. Explained in the link I provided so as not to bore the group with an esoteric explanation. ... From: orvillefpike To:
      Message 2 of 25 , Sep 2, 2007
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        Casing collar locator coil. Explained in the link I provided so as not to bore the group with an esoteric explanation.


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: orvillefpike
        To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 4:11 PM
        Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Best way to remove enamel from windind wire?


        What's a CCL coil?

        --- In Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com, "AnaLog Services, Inc."
        <wireline@...> wrote:
        >
        > I wind lots of CCL coils. Some versions depend on a length of bare
        wire compressed against the steel mandrel for the inner ground
        connection, This is traditionally done with and inch or so taped
        with a tiny piece of kapton, Teflon, or fiberglass high temperature
        tape. To produce a more dependable product, I like to have several
        wraps of bare wire at the mandrel. These things may have 10,000 to
        50,000 turns so a few wasted to insure a good ground does nothing but
        help.
        >
        > See: http://www.logwell.com/tech/CCL/CCL_coil.html
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Stefan Trethan
        > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 11:32 AM
        > Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
        windind wire?
        >
        >
        > On 9/2/07, AnaLog Services, Inc. <wireline@...> wrote:
        > > Don't waste your time on this nonsense. Any over unity results
        are the result of misunderstandings and mismeasurements. There are no
        free lunches.
        > >
        >
        > There'll be free lunches well before there's free energy ;-)
        >
        > I have been puzzled by your comment that you need to sand 2 or 3
        feet
        > of magnet wire. May i ask what you need to sand such a length
        for? I
        > just can't think of anything.
        >
        > ST
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Stefan Trethan
        Thanks! Who would ve thought of that. ST
        Message 3 of 25 , Sep 2, 2007
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          Thanks!
          Who would've thought of that.

          ST


          On 9/2/07, AnaLog Services, Inc. <wireline@...> wrote:
          > I wind lots of CCL coils. Some versions depend on a length of bare wire compressed against the steel mandrel for the inner ground connection, This is traditionally done with and inch or so taped with a tiny piece of kapton, Teflon, or fiberglass high temperature tape. To produce a more dependable product, I like to have several wraps of bare wire at the mandrel. These things may have 10,000 to 50,000 turns so a few wasted to insure a good ground does nothing but help.
          >
          > See: http://www.logwell.com/tech/CCL/CCL_coil.html
          >
        • Nuno T.
          Found a good way to make this job a lot easier. Burn the wire ends until the enamel turns black, it can then be sanded a lot faster. The hotter the flame, the
          Message 4 of 25 , Sep 4, 2007
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            Found a good way to make this job a lot easier.
            Burn the wire ends until the enamel turns black, it can then be sanded a lot
            faster.
            The hotter the flame, the smaller the burned area. Just not too hot!

            Nuno T.
            ________________________________

            From: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AnaLog Services, Inc.
            Sent: domingo, 2 de Setembro de 2007 16:06
            To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
            windind wire?



            I sometimes sand of as much as a couple or three feet, so and inch
            or two is a breeze. 36 gauge is large enuff to be fairly hardy. I would try
            400 or 600 grit first.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Nuno T.
            To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
            <mailto:Electronics_101%40yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 9:06 AM
            Subject: RE: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
            windind wire?

            > I have fancy magnet wire insulation removers including one form
            the Eraser
            Company. I find them a pain to use and prefer very fine sandpaper
            even on
            small gauge wire. I routinely wind up to 40 gauge, and you can break
            it with
            sandpaper, but you will develop a technique with a little practice
            that
            works. I use 400 to 1000 grit for this purpose, and I like the black
            looking
            automotive wet-dry paper.
            >
            > Check to see if you might be using one of the insulations like
            "Soldereze"
            which allow direct soldering without insulation removal. Note that
            this
            feature is not available in the higher temperature rated
            insulations.

            Thanks Syd,

            Sanding is the only trick I'm considering using if nothing better
            show's up.
            Guess that the finner the grit the better the result. The number of
            wire
            ends to sand is a bit painfull: 8 (wires on each) x 2 (ends) x 8
            (coils) = A
            LOT! ;) . Sanding the 8 wires of one end at the same time could be
            faster,
            but with worse results, it seems. And this could be repeated more
            times as
            the coils could be rewinded again with more or less turns.

            I'm using motor grade 0,15mm dia. wire (around 36 AWG), It's not on
            the
            table in your link, but the catalog said it was double enamelled for
            high
            temperature.

            Nuno T.
          • AnaLog Services, Inc.
            I have done that also, but it is not a recommended practice. But since you are wasting the effort on over-unity energy, it does don really matter. J/K. ...
            Message 5 of 25 , Sep 4, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              I have done that also, but it is not a recommended practice. But since you are wasting the effort on over-unity energy, it does don really matter. J/K.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Nuno T.
              To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:21 PM
              Subject: RE: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from windind wire?


              Found a good way to make this job a lot easier.
              Burn the wire ends until the enamel turns black, it can then be sanded a lot
              faster.
              The hotter the flame, the smaller the burned area. Just not too hot!

              Nuno T.
              ________________________________

              From: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AnaLog Services, Inc.
              Sent: domingo, 2 de Setembro de 2007 16:06
              To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
              windind wire?



              I sometimes sand of as much as a couple or three feet, so and inch
              or two is a breeze. 36 gauge is large enuff to be fairly hardy. I would try
              400 or 600 grit first.

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Nuno T.
              To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
              <mailto:Electronics_101%40yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 9:06 AM
              Subject: RE: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
              windind wire?

              > I have fancy magnet wire insulation removers including one form
              the Eraser
              Company. I find them a pain to use and prefer very fine sandpaper
              even on
              small gauge wire. I routinely wind up to 40 gauge, and you can break
              it with
              sandpaper, but you will develop a technique with a little practice
              that
              works. I use 400 to 1000 grit for this purpose, and I like the black
              looking
              automotive wet-dry paper.
              >
              > Check to see if you might be using one of the insulations like
              "Soldereze"
              which allow direct soldering without insulation removal. Note that
              this
              feature is not available in the higher temperature rated
              insulations.

              Thanks Syd,

              Sanding is the only trick I'm considering using if nothing better
              show's up.
              Guess that the finner the grit the better the result. The number of
              wire
              ends to sand is a bit painfull: 8 (wires on each) x 2 (ends) x 8
              (coils) = A
              LOT! ;) . Sanding the 8 wires of one end at the same time could be
              faster,
              but with worse results, it seems. And this could be repeated more
              times as
              the coils could be rewinded again with more or less turns.

              I'm using motor grade 0,15mm dia. wire (around 36 AWG), It's not on
              the
              table in your link, but the catalog said it was double enamelled for
              high
              temperature.

              Nuno T.





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nuno-T
              I though I made myself clear: I M NOT AFTER OVER-UNITY ENERGY, OK? I don t believe in it also. I need to rewind a motor. If I can make it more efficient, fine!
              Message 6 of 25 , Sep 5, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                I though I made myself clear: I'M NOT AFTER OVER-UNITY ENERGY, OK? I don't believe in it also. I need to rewind a motor. If I can make it more efficient, fine! if not, at least the motor will be working again.

                Have you read the details in the link I posted? A LOT of people have tried this same thing. Almost all of them reported that the motor went more efficient to some degree. Some said no significant improvement was made. THIS is the part of that site I'm trying to replicate.

                Why don't you recommend burning the tips of the wires? I'm doing it with good enough results. I'm inserting a sleeve to cover the slightly burned part not supposed to lose the enamel. This way is much faster and less painful.

                > I have done that also, but it is not a recommended practice. But
                > since you are wasting the effort on over-unity energy, it does don
                > really matter. J/K.
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Nuno T.
                > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:21 PM
                > Subject: RE: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
                > windind wire?
                >
                >
                > Found a good way to make this job a lot easier.
                > Burn the wire ends until the enamel turns black, it can then be
                > sanded a lot
                > faster.
                > The hotter the flame, the smaller the burned area. Just not too hot!
                >
                > Nuno T.
                > ________________________________
                >
                > From: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AnaLog
                > Services, Inc.
                > Sent: domingo, 2 de Setembro de 2007 16:06
                > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
                > windind wire?
                >
                >
                >
                > I sometimes sand of as much as a couple or three feet, so and inch
                > or two is a breeze. 36 gauge is large enuff to be fairly hardy.
                > I would try
                > 400 or 600 grit first.
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: Nuno T.
                > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:Electronics_101%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 9:06 AM
                > Subject: RE: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
                > windind wire?
                >
                > > I have fancy magnet wire insulation removers including one form
                > the Eraser
                > Company. I find them a pain to use and prefer very fine sandpaper
                > even on
                > small gauge wire. I routinely wind up to 40 gauge, and you can break
                > it with
                > sandpaper, but you will develop a technique with a little practice
                > that
                > works. I use 400 to 1000 grit for this purpose, and I like the black
                > looking
                > automotive wet-dry paper.
                > >
                > > Check to see if you might be using one of the insulations like
                > "Soldereze"
                > which allow direct soldering without insulation removal. Note that
                > this
                > feature is not available in the higher temperature rated
                > insulations.
                >
                > Thanks Syd,
                >
                > Sanding is the only trick I'm considering using if nothing better
                > show's up.
                > Guess that the finner the grit the better the result. The number of
                > wire
                > ends to sand is a bit painfull: 8 (wires on each) x 2 (ends) x 8
                > (coils) = A
                > LOT! ;) . Sanding the 8 wires of one end at the same time could be
                > faster,
                > but with worse results, it seems. And this could be repeated more
                > times as
                > the coils could be rewinded again with more or less turns.
                >
                > I'm using motor grade 0,15mm dia. wire (around 36 AWG), It's not on
                > the
                > table in your link, but the catalog said it was double enamelled for
                > high
                > temperature.
                >
                > Nuno T.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
              • medmidas
                Hi, There are some laser units available for professional use. Google for more info. MM =========================
                Message 7 of 25 , Sep 5, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi,
                  There are some laser units available for professional use.
                  Google for more info.
                  MM
                  =========================
                  AnaLog Services, Inc. wrote:
                  > I have done that also, but it is not a recommended practice. But since you are wasting the effort on over-unity energy, it does don really matter. J/K.
                • rtstofer
                  ... with good enough results. I m inserting a sleeve to cover the slightly burned part not supposed to lose the enamel. This way is much faster and less
                  Message 8 of 25 , Sep 5, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > Why don't you recommend burning the tips of the wires? I'm doing it
                    with good enough results. I'm inserting a sleeve to cover the slightly
                    burned part not supposed to lose the enamel. This way is much faster
                    and less painful.

                    It takes the 'temper' out of the wire and makes it soft plus it
                    oxidizes the surface.

                    All this may be unimportant in your application.

                    Richard
                  • AnaLog Services, Inc.
                    I said I was just kidding (J/K). But in general perpetual motion machines (over unity devices) are just a bad joke. The copper suffers from the excess heating
                    Message 9 of 25 , Sep 5, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I said I was just kidding (J/K). But in general perpetual motion machines (over unity devices) are just a bad joke.

                      The copper suffers from the excess heating from the flame, and ends will sometimes break off. You may get by with it, bit it is not a recommended practice. We used to do it here, but quit after a bad experience. I still do it sometimes when trying to remove insulation to facilitate an accurate measurement of the underlying bare copper, but never to make a solder / electrical connection.


                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Nuno-T
                      To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 3:38 AM
                      Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from windind wire?


                      I though I made myself clear: I'M NOT AFTER OVER-UNITY ENERGY, OK? I don't believe in it also. I need to rewind a motor. If I can make it more efficient, fine! if not, at least the motor will be working again.

                      Have you read the details in the link I posted? A LOT of people have tried this same thing. Almost all of them reported that the motor went more efficient to some degree. Some said no significant improvement was made. THIS is the part of that site I'm trying to replicate.

                      Why don't you recommend burning the tips of the wires? I'm doing it with good enough results. I'm inserting a sleeve to cover the slightly burned part not supposed to lose the enamel. This way is much faster and less painful.

                      > I have done that also, but it is not a recommended practice. But
                      > since you are wasting the effort on over-unity energy, it does don
                      > really matter. J/K.
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Nuno T.
                      > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 3:21 PM
                      > Subject: RE: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
                      > windind wire?
                      >
                      >
                      > Found a good way to make this job a lot easier.
                      > Burn the wire ends until the enamel turns black, it can then be
                      > sanded a lot
                      > faster.
                      > The hotter the flame, the smaller the burned area. Just not too hot!
                      >
                      > Nuno T.
                      > ________________________________
                      >
                      > From: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AnaLog
                      > Services, Inc.
                      > Sent: domingo, 2 de Setembro de 2007 16:06
                      > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
                      > windind wire?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I sometimes sand of as much as a couple or three feet, so and inch
                      > or two is a breeze. 36 gauge is large enuff to be fairly hardy.
                      > I would try
                      > 400 or 600 grit first.
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Nuno T.
                      > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                      > <mailto:Electronics_101%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 9:06 AM
                      > Subject: RE: [Electronics_101] Best way to remove enamel from
                      > windind wire?
                      >
                      > > I have fancy magnet wire insulation removers including one form
                      > the Eraser
                      > Company. I find them a pain to use and prefer very fine sandpaper
                      > even on
                      > small gauge wire. I routinely wind up to 40 gauge, and you can break
                      > it with
                      > sandpaper, but you will develop a technique with a little practice
                      > that
                      > works. I use 400 to 1000 grit for this purpose, and I like the black
                      > looking
                      > automotive wet-dry paper.
                      > >
                      > > Check to see if you might be using one of the insulations like
                      > "Soldereze"
                      > which allow direct soldering without insulation removal. Note that
                      > this
                      > feature is not available in the higher temperature rated
                      > insulations.
                      >
                      > Thanks Syd,
                      >
                      > Sanding is the only trick I'm considering using if nothing better
                      > show's up.
                      > Guess that the finner the grit the better the result. The number of
                      > wire
                      > ends to sand is a bit painfull: 8 (wires on each) x 2 (ends) x 8
                      > (coils) = A
                      > LOT! ;) . Sanding the 8 wires of one end at the same time could be
                      > faster,
                      > but with worse results, it seems. And this could be repeated more
                      > times as
                      > the coils could be rewinded again with more or less turns.
                      >
                      > I'm using motor grade 0,15mm dia. wire (around 36 AWG), It's not on
                      > the
                      > table in your link, but the catalog said it was double enamelled for
                      > high
                      > temperature.
                      >
                      > Nuno T.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Nuno T.
                      ... with good enough results. I m inserting a sleeve to cover the slightly burned part not supposed to lose the enamel. This way is much faster and less
                      Message 10 of 25 , Sep 5, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        >> Why don't you recommend burning the tips of the wires? I'm doing it
                        with good enough results. I'm inserting a sleeve to cover the slightly
                        burned part not supposed to lose the enamel. This way is much faster
                        and less painful.

                        > It takes the 'temper' out of the wire and makes it soft plus it
                        oxidizes the surface.

                        That's a good reason, back to just sanding method. I'm glad i left long
                        enough wire ends to make a new termination if one of the already burned ones
                        breaks.

                        Thanks

                        Nuno T.
                      • AnaLog Services, Inc.
                        I am not sure it actually takes the temper out. Copper is work hardened, not heat hardened (I think). Anyway, I am not sure of the exact mechanism, but it
                        Message 11 of 25 , Sep 5, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I am not sure it actually takes the temper out. Copper is work hardened, not heat hardened (I think). Anyway, I am not sure of the exact mechanism, but it certainly weakens the wire from experience.

                          Syd

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Nuno T.
                          To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 1:35 PM
                          Subject: RE: [Electronics_101] Re: Best way to remove enamel from windind wire?


                          >> Why don't you recommend burning the tips of the wires? I'm doing it
                          with good enough results. I'm inserting a sleeve to cover the slightly
                          burned part not supposed to lose the enamel. This way is much faster
                          and less painful.

                          > It takes the 'temper' out of the wire and makes it soft plus it
                          oxidizes the surface.

                          That's a good reason, back to just sanding method. I'm glad i left long
                          enough wire ends to make a new termination if one of the already burned ones
                          breaks.

                          Thanks

                          Nuno T.





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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