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Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

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  • A.R.S. Alvin Koffman KA9QLQ
    I still don t buy that light barrier stuff. Alvin [8*9 Homepage http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/ Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
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      I still don't buy that light barrier stuff.
      Alvin [8*9
      Homepage
      http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/
      Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
      http://about.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=2792533
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: jdb000001
      Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 10:32 PM
      Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

      Now that would be difficult.  RADAR is short for radio detection and
      ranging.  Since radio waves travel at the speed of light, the
      spacecraft would be traveling at the same speed as the radio waves,
      and would not give you any warning of its approach.  Also, since the
      current laws of physics do not allow for any material object to
      travel at the speed of light, designing something to track such an
      object would have to defy the very laws you were using to build it.

      You might want to see if there is a yahoo group for theoretical
      physics.  Maybe they would have some ideas.





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    • manifold_1
      This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you can find kinship in some of these groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
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        This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you can find kinship
        in some of these groups:

        http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
        http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
        http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
        http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1

        ...always willing to help.

        --- In Electronics_101@y..., "onthecuttingedge2005"
        <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
        > Do we have the Radar technology capable of detecting a spacecraft
        at
        > light speed.
        > If so. Are we looking for them?
        > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a light speed
        spacecraft
        > then we better build one and start looking at this velocity in
        space.
        > Best of luck.
        > Jerry.
      • EarthWind FireWater
        You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics? Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced equipment? Best of luck. Jerry. ...
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
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          You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics?
          Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced
          equipment?
          Best of luck.
          Jerry.

          --- manifold_1 <manifold_1@...> wrote:
          > This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you
          > can find kinship
          > in some of these groups:
          >
          >
          http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
          >
          http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1
          >
          > ...always willing to help.
          >
          > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "onthecuttingedge2005"
          > <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
          > > Do we have the Radar technology capable of
          > detecting a spacecraft
          > at
          > > light speed.
          > > If so. Are we looking for them?
          > > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a
          > light speed
          > spacecraft
          > > then we better build one and start looking at this
          > velocity in
          > space.
          > > Best of luck.
          > > Jerry.
          >
          >


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        • EarthWind FireWater
          Do you think a thousand years we will bust the light barrier. If so maybe ET could to. Coasting along at light speed could make an ET vehicle sorta very hard
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
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            Do you think a thousand years we will bust the light
            barrier. If so maybe ET could to.
            Coasting along at light speed could make an ET vehicle
            sorta very hard to see even by the naked eye let alone
            Rader.
            We have found so many answers maybe time will tell.
            somebody will find the equasions to do it one day.
            Best of luck.
            Jerry.

            --- "A.R.S. Alvin Koffman KA9QLQ" <ka9qlq@...>
            wrote:
            > I still don't buy that light barrier stuff.
            > Alvin [8*9
            > Homepage
            > http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/
            > Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
            >
            http://about.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=2792533
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: jdb000001
            > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 10:32 PM
            > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On
            > Radar.
            >
            >
            > Now that would be difficult. RADAR is short for
            > radio detection and
            > ranging. Since radio waves travel at the speed of
            > light, the
            > spacecraft would be traveling at the same speed as
            > the radio waves,
            > and would not give you any warning of its
            > approach. Also, since the
            > current laws of physics do not allow for any
            > material object to
            > travel at the speed of light, designing something
            > to track such an
            > object would have to defy the very laws you were
            > using to build it.
            >
            > You might want to see if there is a yahoo group
            > for theoretical
            > physics. Maybe they would have some ideas.
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            >
            >
            >
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            > Terms of Service.
            >
            >


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          • Tom
            I think it s more the looking for aliens thing that has nothing to do with electronics, at least not in the context we usually discuss in here. The groups
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
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              I think it's more the "looking for aliens" thing that has nothing to do with electronics, at least not in the context we usually discuss in here. The groups manifold_1 listed below seem to be right on track with the kinds of things you prefer to discuss. The kind of electronics we usually discuss in here relate more to everyday electronics. I do kind of enjoy looking at your theoretical designs but you will get a better response from people in the groups listed below since they seem to share your interest in extraterrestrial applications.
               
              Tom
              You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics?
              Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced
              equipment?
              Best of luck.
              Jerry.

              --- manifold_1 <manifold_1@...> wrote:
              > This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you
              > can find kinship
              > in some of these groups:
              >
              >
              http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
              > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
              >
              http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1
              >
              > ...always willing to help.
              >
              > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "onthecuttingedge2005"
              > <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
              > > Do we have the Radar technology capable of
              > detecting a spacecraft
              > at
              > > light speed.
              > > If so. Are we looking for them?
              > > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a
              > light speed
              > spacecraft
              > > then we better build one and start looking at this
              > velocity in
              > space.
              > > Best of luck.
              > > Jerry.
              >
              >


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            • EarthWind FireWater
              It was just a question on our Rader capability. That was all. I thought some electronic experts might have an idea to the question so I asked. Best of luck.
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
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                It was just a question on our Rader capability.
                That was all.
                I thought some electronic experts might have an idea
                to the question so I asked.
                Best of luck.
                Jerry.

                --- Tom <yahoo@...> wrote:
                > I think it's more the "looking for aliens" thing
                > that has nothing to do with electronics, at least
                > not in the context we usually discuss in here. The
                > groups manifold_1 listed below seem to be right on
                > track with the kinds of things you prefer to
                > discuss. The kind of electronics we usually discuss
                > in here relate more to everyday electronics. I do
                > kind of enjoy looking at your theoretical designs
                > but you will get a better response from people in
                > the groups listed below since they seem to share
                > your interest in extraterrestrial applications.
                >
                > Tom
                > You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics?
                > Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced
                > equipment?
                > Best of luck.
                > Jerry.
                >
                > --- manifold_1 <manifold_1@...> wrote:
                > > This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps
                > you
                > > can find kinship
                > > in some of these groups:
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
                > >
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
                > >
                >
                >
                http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1
                > >
                > > ...always willing to help.
                > >
                > > --- In Electronics_101@y...,
                > "onthecuttingedge2005"
                > > <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
                > > > Do we have the Radar technology capable of
                > > detecting a spacecraft
                > > at
                > > > light speed.
                > > > If so. Are we looking for them?
                > > > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a
                > > light speed
                > > spacecraft
                > > > then we better build one and start looking at
                > this
                > > velocity in
                > > space.
                > > > Best of luck.
                > > > Jerry.
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
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                >
                >


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              • mattsoftnet
                the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you re holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming from the flashlight would
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
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                  the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you're
                  holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming
                  from the flashlight would be moving at double the speed of light.
                  there's nothing stopping the light from doing that speed, why would
                  there be anything stopping a space craft? theoretically.

                  Matthew Kemmerer
                  Mattsoft.net
                • Wolf Logan
                  even though this mailing list is electronics_101 and not physics_101 , i ll correct this one right now. if you re holding a flashlight and moving at the
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
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                    even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                    i'll correct this one right now.

                    if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                    wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                    since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                    refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                    relativity to get the whole scoop.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "mattsoftnet" <mattsoft@...>
                    Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 11:06 PM


                    > the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you're
                    > holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming
                    > from the flashlight would be moving at double the speed of light.
                    > there's nothing stopping the light from doing that speed, why would
                    > there be anything stopping a space craft? theoretically.
                  • Albert van Mil
                    Hi, If you hold a flashlight and move near lightspeed yourself, then for you the light from the flashlight moves at speed c. For an outside observer the light
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
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                                Hi,
                       
                                If you hold a flashlight and move near lightspeed yourself, then for you the
                                light from the flashlight moves at speed c. For an outside observer the
                                light will also move at speed c. That's what the Lorentz transformations predict,
                                whatever you try, light will retain lightspeed c for ANY observer (in special
                                relativity, not in general relativity).
                       
                                        Cheers Albert (PhD).
                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Wolf Logan [mailto:wolf@...]
                      Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:52 AM
                      To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

                      even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                      i'll correct this one right now.

                      if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                      wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                      since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                      refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                      relativity to get the whole scoop.

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "mattsoftnet" <mattsoft@...>
                      Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 11:06 PM


                      > the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you're
                      > holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming
                      > from the flashlight would be moving at double the speed of light.
                      > there's nothing stopping the light from doing that speed, why would
                      > there be anything stopping a space craft? theoretically.




                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      Electronics_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                    • David Paterson
                      ... The weird thing about relativity is that this isn t what happens - the light doesn t get stuck . OK, you can t have a flashlight or any material object
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
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                        On Tue, 6 Aug 2002 23:52:09 -0700, you wrote:

                        >even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                        >i'll correct this one right now.
                        >
                        >if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                        >wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                        >since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                        The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                        light doesn't get "stuck".

                        OK, you can't have a flashlight or any material object travelling at the
                        speed of light, but if it's going at 0.999C (or as close as you want)
                        the light coming out of it is still going at exactly C. Both the
                        observer travelling with the flashlight, and a stationary observer will
                        measure the same speed.

                        They might measure different frequencies though :-)

                        >refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                        >relativity to get the whole scoop.

                        I've been helping a friend doing a university physics course, and just
                        finished the relativity section. It's really interesting, although it
                        can seem to be a bit wacky at times. You can't use common sense, you
                        have to trust the maths.

                        David P.
                      • Wolf Logan
                        ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from the flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same speed, so the light
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
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                          ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from the
                          flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same speed, so
                          the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time dilation
                          between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                          *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver, though,
                          of course the light is headed out at exactly c.

                          i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external observer, the
                          high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam leaving
                          it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my message at
                          the top, and left off my personal interpretation...


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@...>
                          Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM


                          > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                          > light doesn't get "stuck".
                        • Tom
                          and I thought the c in E=mc^2 stood for corn :-) Shows what I know. Tom ... From: Wolf Logan To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
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                            and I thought the "c" in E=mc^2 stood for "corn" :-)
                            Shows what I know.
                             
                            Tom
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:50 PM
                            Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

                            ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from the
                            flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same speed, so
                            the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time dilation
                            between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                            *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver, though,
                            of course the light is headed out at exactly c.

                            i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external observer, the
                            high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam leaving
                            it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my message at
                            the top, and left off my personal interpretation...


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@...>
                            Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM


                            > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                            > light doesn't get "stuck".




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                          • manifold_1
                            Yes, that is correct. Also note that due to the increased inertia, time dilation and physical shortening effects we get what can only be described as a corn
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
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                              Yes, that is correct. Also note that due to the increased inertia,
                              time dilation and physical shortening effects we get what can only be
                              described as a "corn ball" ;)


                              --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Tom" <yahoo@c...> wrote:
                              > and I thought the "c" in E=mc^2 stood for "corn" :-)
                              > Shows what I know.
                              >
                              > Tom
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: Wolf Logan
                              > To: Electronics_101@y...
                              > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:50 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.
                              >
                              >
                              > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming
                              from the
                              > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                              speed, so
                              > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                              dilation
                              > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                              > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight
                              driver, though,
                              > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                              >
                              > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                              observer, the
                              > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                              leaving
                              > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                              message at
                              > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                              > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                              >
                              >
                              > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what
                              happens - the
                              > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                              > ADVERTISEMENT
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                              Service.
                            • A.R.S. Alvin Koffman KA9QLQ
                              Ah common sense science. http://www.commonsensescience.org/ Alvin [8*9 Homepage http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/ Make money while you surf click below to learn
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
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                                Ah common sense science.
                                Alvin [8*9
                                Homepage
                                http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/
                                Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
                                http://about.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=2792533
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 6:09 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

                                On Tue, 6 Aug 2002 23:52:09 -0700, you wrote:

                                >even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                                >i'll correct this one right now.
                                >
                                >if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                                >wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                                >since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                                The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                                light doesn't get "stuck".

                                OK, you can't have a flashlight or any material object travelling at the
                                speed of light, but if it's going at 0.999C (or as close as you want)
                                the light coming out of it is still going at exactly C.  Both the
                                observer travelling with the flashlight, and a stationary observer will
                                measure the same speed.

                                They might measure different frequencies though :-)

                                >refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                                >relativity to get the whole scoop.

                                I've been helping a friend doing a university physics course, and just
                                finished the relativity section.  It's really interesting, although it
                                can seem to be a bit wacky at times.  You can't use common sense, you
                                have to trust the maths.

                                David P.



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                                Electronics_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                              • mattsoftnet
                                my theory is, if you re in space, and there s nothing around you to use as a reference, there is no such thing as moving . motion is relitive to another
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
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                                  my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you to
                                  use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                  relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near the
                                  speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at the
                                  speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                  too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                  second person. right?

                                  sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                  interesting. :-)

                                  Matthew Kemmerer
                                  Mattsoft.net


                                  --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                  > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from
                                  the
                                  > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                                  speed, so
                                  > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                  dilation
                                  > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                  > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver,
                                  though,
                                  > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                  >
                                  > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                  observer, the
                                  > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                                  leaving
                                  > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                  message at
                                  > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                  > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens -
                                  the
                                  > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                • Tom
                                  Well, I think the scientific community would say no. I of course don t know myself, but from what I understand the speed of light is constant, not relative. So
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
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                                    Well, I think the scientific community would say no. I of course don't know myself, but from what I understand the speed of light is constant, not relative. So if a light source is traveling at or away from you, its apparent speed is the same. If a car is traveling at 100mph, the light from the headlights isn't lightspeed+100mph (relative to you). Like I say, I haven't done any tests of my own, just giving my understanding of what my "A Brief History of Time" CD-ROM said :)
                                     
                                    I hate to keep this off-topic thing going too so we should really start a new group if we are going to keep this up.
                                     
                                    Tom
                                    my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you to
                                    use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                    relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near the
                                    speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at the
                                    speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                    too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                    second person. right?

                                    sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                    interesting. :-)

                                    Matthew Kemmerer
                                    Mattsoft.net


                                    --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                    > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from
                                    the
                                    > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                                    speed, so
                                    > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                    dilation
                                    > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                    > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver,
                                    though,
                                    > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                    >
                                    > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                    observer, the
                                    > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                                    leaving
                                    > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                    message at
                                    > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens -
                                    the
                                    > > light doesn't get "stuck".



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                                  • Dave Hylands
                                    This would be true if your size didn t change. If you study the theory of relativity, you ll discovery that as you approach the speed of light, your dimensions
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
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                                      This would be true if your size didn't change. If you study the theory of
                                      relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach the speed of light, your
                                      dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't remember) in the
                                      direction that you're travelling. Your mass will also start to approach
                                      inifinity.

                                      The fact that your dimensions change is why both you and an observer measure
                                      the speed of light as being the same.

                                      My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.

                                      Dave Hylands

                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@...]
                                      > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                      > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you to
                                      > use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                      > relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near the
                                      > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at the
                                      > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                      > too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                      > second person. right?
                                      >
                                      > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                      > interesting. :-)
                                      >
                                      > Matthew Kemmerer
                                      > Mattsoft.net
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                      > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from
                                      > the
                                      > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                                      > speed, so
                                      > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                      > dilation
                                      > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                      > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver,
                                      > though,
                                      > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                      > >
                                      > > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                      > observer, the
                                      > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                                      > leaving
                                      > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                      > message at
                                      > > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                      > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens -
                                      > the
                                      > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                      >
                                      >
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                                    • manifold_1
                                      Right, does anyone have an _electronics_ project that can measure the speed of light? ... theory of ... light, your ... approach ... observer measure ... to
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
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                                        Right, does anyone have an _electronics_ project that can measure the
                                        speed of light?


                                        --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Dave Hylands" <dhylands@b...> wrote:
                                        > This would be true if your size didn't change. If you study the
                                        theory of
                                        > relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach the speed of
                                        light, your
                                        > dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't remember) in the
                                        > direction that you're travelling. Your mass will also start to
                                        approach
                                        > inifinity.
                                        >
                                        > The fact that your dimensions change is why both you and an
                                        observer measure
                                        > the speed of light as being the same.
                                        >
                                        > My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.
                                        >
                                        > Dave Hylands
                                        >
                                        > > -----Original Message-----
                                        > > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@m...]
                                        > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                        > > To: Electronics_101@y...
                                        > > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you
                                        to
                                        > > use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                        > > relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near
                                        the
                                        > > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at
                                        the
                                        > > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                        > > too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                        > > second person. right?
                                        > >
                                        > > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                        > > interesting. :-)
                                        > >
                                        > > Matthew Kemmerer
                                        > > Mattsoft.net
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                        > > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming
                                        from
                                        > > the
                                        > > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the
                                        same
                                        > > speed, so
                                        > > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                        > > dilation
                                        > > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                        > > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight
                                        driver,
                                        > > though,
                                        > > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                        > > observer, the
                                        > > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light
                                        beam
                                        > > leaving
                                        > > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                        > > message at
                                        > > > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                        > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what
                                        happens -
                                        > > the
                                        > > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                        > > ---------------------~-->
                                        > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
                                        > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/1EGslB/TM
                                        > > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                        > > -------~->
                                        > >
                                        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > > Electronics_101-unsubscribe@y...
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                        > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                      • mattsoftnet
                                        there s a type of telescope that measures the speed of a star relitive to us. I think it s called a spectrograph. it s like a telescope, but it has a glass
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
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                                          there's a type of telescope that measures the speed of a star
                                          relitive to us. I think it's called a spectrograph. it's like a
                                          telescope, but it has a glass spectrum in it. sense blue and purple
                                          are a lower frequency then yellow and green, purple would be brighter
                                          in the spectrum if a star is moving away from us, and yellow or green
                                          would be brighter if it's moving towards us. that's how they can
                                          prove space is expanding from the big bang. it works the same way
                                          with sound waves. when a car drives past you, it has a deeper sound
                                          once it passes. light is a form of energy. it works similar to sound
                                          waves.

                                          Matthew Kemmerer
                                          Mattsoft.net
                                        • EarthWind FireWater
                                          Hi Dave. Maybe through exotic matter they can find a material that doesn t expand with greater velocity or at light speed. At one time science didn t think
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
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                                            Hi Dave.
                                            Maybe through exotic matter they can find a material
                                            that doesn't expand with greater velocity or at light
                                            speed. At one time science didn't think that plastics
                                            would ever be a superconductor but the best
                                            superconductor in the world today is a plastic which
                                            superconducts at room temperature.
                                            What we can't do yet is only because of a lack of
                                            knowledge and technology.
                                            Best of luck.
                                            Jerry.


                                            --- Dave Hylands <dhylands@...> wrote:
                                            > This would be true if your size didn't change. If
                                            > you study the theory of
                                            > relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach
                                            > the speed of light, your
                                            > dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't
                                            > remember) in the
                                            > direction that you're travelling. Your mass will
                                            > also start to approach
                                            > inifinity.
                                            >
                                            > The fact that your dimensions change is why both you
                                            > and an observer measure
                                            > the speed of light as being the same.
                                            >
                                            > My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.
                                            >
                                            > Dave Hylands
                                            >
                                            > > -----Original Message-----
                                            > > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@...]
                                            > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                            > > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On
                                            > Radar.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's
                                            > nothing around you to
                                            > > use as a reference, there is no such thing as
                                            > "moving". motion is
                                            > > relitive to another object, right? so if you're
                                            > moving at or near the
                                            > > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is
                                            > still moving at the
                                            > > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's
                                            > someone else there
                                            > > too, the light would be twice the speed of light
                                            > relitive to that
                                            > > second person. right?
                                            > >
                                            > > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but
                                            > it's too
                                            > > interesting. :-)
                                            > >
                                            > > Matthew Kemmerer
                                            > > Mattsoft.net
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan"
                                            > <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                            > > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer,
                                            > the light coming from
                                            > > the
                                            > > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are
                                            > travelling at the same
                                            > > speed, so
                                            > > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from
                                            > that frame). time
                                            > > dilation
                                            > > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame
                                            > makes just about
                                            > > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the
                                            > flashlight driver,
                                            > > though,
                                            > > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > i was trying to address the misconception that,
                                            > to an external
                                            > > observer, the
                                            > > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added"
                                            > to the light beam
                                            > > leaving
                                            > > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at
                                            > the bottom of my
                                            > > message at
                                            > > > the top, and left off my personal
                                            > interpretation...
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                            > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this
                                            > isn't what happens -
                                            > > the
                                            > > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                            > > ---------------------~-->
                                            > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/1EGslB/TM
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            --------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > > -------~->
                                            > >
                                            > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                            > > Electronics_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                            > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >


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                                          • manifold_1
                                            It is called Lorentz Contraction and it is not a property of the material. It is only an observation of what happens from the point of view of a different
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
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                                              It is called Lorentz Contraction and it is not a property of the
                                              material. It is only an observation of what happens from the point of
                                              view of a different frame of reference traveling at relatavistic
                                              velocities. It is not something you would feel or even notice in your
                                              own frame of reference.

                                              You may be experiencing Lorentz Contraction now!

                                              --- In Electronics_101@y..., EarthWind FireWater
                                              <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
                                              > Hi Dave.
                                              > Maybe through exotic matter they can find a material
                                              > that doesn't expand with greater velocity or at light
                                              > speed. At one time science didn't think that plastics
                                              > would ever be a superconductor but the best
                                              > superconductor in the world today is a plastic which
                                              > superconducts at room temperature.
                                              > What we can't do yet is only because of a lack of
                                              > knowledge and technology.
                                              > Best of luck.
                                              > Jerry.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- Dave Hylands <dhylands@b...> wrote:
                                              > > This would be true if your size didn't change. If
                                              > > you study the theory of
                                              > > relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach
                                              > > the speed of light, your
                                              > > dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't
                                              > > remember) in the
                                              > > direction that you're travelling. Your mass will
                                              > > also start to approach
                                              > > inifinity.
                                              > >
                                              > > The fact that your dimensions change is why both you
                                              > > and an observer measure
                                              > > the speed of light as being the same.
                                              > >
                                              > > My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.
                                              > >
                                              > > Dave Hylands
                                              > >
                                              > > > -----Original Message-----
                                              > > > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@m...]
                                              > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                              > > > To: Electronics_101@y...
                                              > > > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On
                                              > > Radar.
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's
                                              > > nothing around you to
                                              > > > use as a reference, there is no such thing as
                                              > > "moving". motion is
                                              > > > relitive to another object, right? so if you're
                                              > > moving at or near the
                                              > > > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is
                                              > > still moving at the
                                              > > > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's
                                              > > someone else there
                                              > > > too, the light would be twice the speed of light
                                              > > relitive to that
                                              > > > second person. right?
                                              > > >
                                              > > > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but
                                              > > it's too
                                              > > > interesting. :-)
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Matthew Kemmerer
                                              > > > Mattsoft.net
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan"
                                              > > <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                              > > > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer,
                                              > > the light coming from
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are
                                              > > travelling at the same
                                              > > > speed, so
                                              > > > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from
                                              > > that frame). time
                                              > > > dilation
                                              > > > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame
                                              > > makes just about
                                              > > > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the
                                              > > flashlight driver,
                                              > > > though,
                                              > > > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > i was trying to address the misconception that,
                                              > > to an external
                                              > > > observer, the
                                              > > > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added"
                                              > > to the light beam
                                              > > > leaving
                                              > > > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at
                                              > > the bottom of my
                                              > > > message at
                                              > > > > the top, and left off my personal
                                              > > interpretation...
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                              > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this
                                              > > isn't what happens -
                                              > > > the
                                              > > > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > > > ---------------------~-->
                                              > > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/1EGslB/TM
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > > -------~->
                                              > > >
                                              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > > Electronics_101-unsubscribe@y...
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
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