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Re: Group Question On Radar.

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  • jdb000001
    Now that would be difficult. RADAR is short for radio detection and ranging. Since radio waves travel at the speed of light, the spacecraft would be
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
      Now that would be difficult. RADAR is short for radio detection and
      ranging. Since radio waves travel at the speed of light, the
      spacecraft would be traveling at the same speed as the radio waves,
      and would not give you any warning of its approach. Also, since the
      current laws of physics do not allow for any material object to
      travel at the speed of light, designing something to track such an
      object would have to defy the very laws you were using to build it.

      You might want to see if there is a yahoo group for theoretical
      physics. Maybe they would have some ideas.
    • A.R.S. Alvin Koffman KA9QLQ
      I still don t buy that light barrier stuff. Alvin [8*9 Homepage http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/ Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
        I still don't buy that light barrier stuff.
        Alvin [8*9
        Homepage
        http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/
        Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
        http://about.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=2792533
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: jdb000001
        Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 10:32 PM
        Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

        Now that would be difficult.  RADAR is short for radio detection and
        ranging.  Since radio waves travel at the speed of light, the
        spacecraft would be traveling at the same speed as the radio waves,
        and would not give you any warning of its approach.  Also, since the
        current laws of physics do not allow for any material object to
        travel at the speed of light, designing something to track such an
        object would have to defy the very laws you were using to build it.

        You might want to see if there is a yahoo group for theoretical
        physics.  Maybe they would have some ideas.





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        Electronics_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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      • manifold_1
        This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you can find kinship in some of these groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
          This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you can find kinship
          in some of these groups:

          http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
          http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
          http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
          http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1

          ...always willing to help.

          --- In Electronics_101@y..., "onthecuttingedge2005"
          <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
          > Do we have the Radar technology capable of detecting a spacecraft
          at
          > light speed.
          > If so. Are we looking for them?
          > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a light speed
          spacecraft
          > then we better build one and start looking at this velocity in
          space.
          > Best of luck.
          > Jerry.
        • EarthWind FireWater
          You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics? Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced equipment? Best of luck. Jerry. ...
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
            You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics?
            Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced
            equipment?
            Best of luck.
            Jerry.

            --- manifold_1 <manifold_1@...> wrote:
            > This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you
            > can find kinship
            > in some of these groups:
            >
            >
            http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
            >
            http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1
            >
            > ...always willing to help.
            >
            > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "onthecuttingedge2005"
            > <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
            > > Do we have the Radar technology capable of
            > detecting a spacecraft
            > at
            > > light speed.
            > > If so. Are we looking for them?
            > > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a
            > light speed
            > spacecraft
            > > then we better build one and start looking at this
            > velocity in
            > space.
            > > Best of luck.
            > > Jerry.
            >
            >


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          • EarthWind FireWater
            Do you think a thousand years we will bust the light barrier. If so maybe ET could to. Coasting along at light speed could make an ET vehicle sorta very hard
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
              Do you think a thousand years we will bust the light
              barrier. If so maybe ET could to.
              Coasting along at light speed could make an ET vehicle
              sorta very hard to see even by the naked eye let alone
              Rader.
              We have found so many answers maybe time will tell.
              somebody will find the equasions to do it one day.
              Best of luck.
              Jerry.

              --- "A.R.S. Alvin Koffman KA9QLQ" <ka9qlq@...>
              wrote:
              > I still don't buy that light barrier stuff.
              > Alvin [8*9
              > Homepage
              > http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/
              > Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
              >
              http://about.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=2792533
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: jdb000001
              > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 10:32 PM
              > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On
              > Radar.
              >
              >
              > Now that would be difficult. RADAR is short for
              > radio detection and
              > ranging. Since radio waves travel at the speed of
              > light, the
              > spacecraft would be traveling at the same speed as
              > the radio waves,
              > and would not give you any warning of its
              > approach. Also, since the
              > current laws of physics do not allow for any
              > material object to
              > travel at the speed of light, designing something
              > to track such an
              > object would have to defy the very laws you were
              > using to build it.
              >
              > You might want to see if there is a yahoo group
              > for theoretical
              > physics. Maybe they would have some ideas.
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              > ADVERTISEMENT
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              >
              >
              >
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              > Terms of Service.
              >
              >


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            • Tom
              I think it s more the looking for aliens thing that has nothing to do with electronics, at least not in the context we usually discuss in here. The groups
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
                I think it's more the "looking for aliens" thing that has nothing to do with electronics, at least not in the context we usually discuss in here. The groups manifold_1 listed below seem to be right on track with the kinds of things you prefer to discuss. The kind of electronics we usually discuss in here relate more to everyday electronics. I do kind of enjoy looking at your theoretical designs but you will get a better response from people in the groups listed below since they seem to share your interest in extraterrestrial applications.
                 
                Tom
                You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics?
                Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced
                equipment?
                Best of luck.
                Jerry.

                --- manifold_1 <manifold_1@...> wrote:
                > This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you
                > can find kinship
                > in some of these groups:
                >
                >
                http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
                >
                http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1
                >
                > ...always willing to help.
                >
                > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "onthecuttingedge2005"
                > <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
                > > Do we have the Radar technology capable of
                > detecting a spacecraft
                > at
                > > light speed.
                > > If so. Are we looking for them?
                > > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a
                > light speed
                > spacecraft
                > > then we better build one and start looking at this
                > velocity in
                > space.
                > > Best of luck.
                > > Jerry.
                >
                >


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                Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
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              • EarthWind FireWater
                It was just a question on our Rader capability. That was all. I thought some electronic experts might have an idea to the question so I asked. Best of luck.
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
                  It was just a question on our Rader capability.
                  That was all.
                  I thought some electronic experts might have an idea
                  to the question so I asked.
                  Best of luck.
                  Jerry.

                  --- Tom <yahoo@...> wrote:
                  > I think it's more the "looking for aliens" thing
                  > that has nothing to do with electronics, at least
                  > not in the context we usually discuss in here. The
                  > groups manifold_1 listed below seem to be right on
                  > track with the kinds of things you prefer to
                  > discuss. The kind of electronics we usually discuss
                  > in here relate more to everyday electronics. I do
                  > kind of enjoy looking at your theoretical designs
                  > but you will get a better response from people in
                  > the groups listed below since they seem to share
                  > your interest in extraterrestrial applications.
                  >
                  > Tom
                  > You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics?
                  > Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced
                  > equipment?
                  > Best of luck.
                  > Jerry.
                  >
                  > --- manifold_1 <manifold_1@...> wrote:
                  > > This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps
                  > you
                  > > can find kinship
                  > > in some of these groups:
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
                  > >
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
                  > > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1
                  > >
                  > > ...always willing to help.
                  > >
                  > > --- In Electronics_101@y...,
                  > "onthecuttingedge2005"
                  > > <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
                  > > > Do we have the Radar technology capable of
                  > > detecting a spacecraft
                  > > at
                  > > > light speed.
                  > > > If so. Are we looking for them?
                  > > > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a
                  > > light speed
                  > > spacecraft
                  > > > then we better build one and start looking at
                  > this
                  > > velocity in
                  > > space.
                  > > > Best of luck.
                  > > > Jerry.
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
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                  >
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                  > Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >


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                • mattsoftnet
                  the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you re holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming from the flashlight would
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
                    the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you're
                    holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming
                    from the flashlight would be moving at double the speed of light.
                    there's nothing stopping the light from doing that speed, why would
                    there be anything stopping a space craft? theoretically.

                    Matthew Kemmerer
                    Mattsoft.net
                  • Wolf Logan
                    even though this mailing list is electronics_101 and not physics_101 , i ll correct this one right now. if you re holding a flashlight and moving at the
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
                      even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                      i'll correct this one right now.

                      if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                      wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                      since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                      refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                      relativity to get the whole scoop.

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "mattsoftnet" <mattsoft@...>
                      Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 11:06 PM


                      > the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you're
                      > holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming
                      > from the flashlight would be moving at double the speed of light.
                      > there's nothing stopping the light from doing that speed, why would
                      > there be anything stopping a space craft? theoretically.
                    • Albert van Mil
                      Hi, If you hold a flashlight and move near lightspeed yourself, then for you the light from the flashlight moves at speed c. For an outside observer the light
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                  Hi,
                         
                                  If you hold a flashlight and move near lightspeed yourself, then for you the
                                  light from the flashlight moves at speed c. For an outside observer the
                                  light will also move at speed c. That's what the Lorentz transformations predict,
                                  whatever you try, light will retain lightspeed c for ANY observer (in special
                                  relativity, not in general relativity).
                         
                                          Cheers Albert (PhD).
                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Wolf Logan [mailto:wolf@...]
                        Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:52 AM
                        To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

                        even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                        i'll correct this one right now.

                        if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                        wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                        since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                        refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                        relativity to get the whole scoop.

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "mattsoftnet" <mattsoft@...>
                        Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 11:06 PM


                        > the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you're
                        > holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming
                        > from the flashlight would be moving at double the speed of light.
                        > there's nothing stopping the light from doing that speed, why would
                        > there be anything stopping a space craft? theoretically.




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                        Electronics_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                      • David Paterson
                        ... The weird thing about relativity is that this isn t what happens - the light doesn t get stuck . OK, you can t have a flashlight or any material object
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                          On Tue, 6 Aug 2002 23:52:09 -0700, you wrote:

                          >even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                          >i'll correct this one right now.
                          >
                          >if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                          >wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                          >since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                          The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                          light doesn't get "stuck".

                          OK, you can't have a flashlight or any material object travelling at the
                          speed of light, but if it's going at 0.999C (or as close as you want)
                          the light coming out of it is still going at exactly C. Both the
                          observer travelling with the flashlight, and a stationary observer will
                          measure the same speed.

                          They might measure different frequencies though :-)

                          >refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                          >relativity to get the whole scoop.

                          I've been helping a friend doing a university physics course, and just
                          finished the relativity section. It's really interesting, although it
                          can seem to be a bit wacky at times. You can't use common sense, you
                          have to trust the maths.

                          David P.
                        • Wolf Logan
                          ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from the flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same speed, so the light
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                            ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from the
                            flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same speed, so
                            the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time dilation
                            between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                            *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver, though,
                            of course the light is headed out at exactly c.

                            i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external observer, the
                            high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam leaving
                            it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my message at
                            the top, and left off my personal interpretation...


                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@...>
                            Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM


                            > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                            > light doesn't get "stuck".
                          • Tom
                            and I thought the c in E=mc^2 stood for corn :-) Shows what I know. Tom ... From: Wolf Logan To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                              and I thought the "c" in E=mc^2 stood for "corn" :-)
                              Shows what I know.
                               
                              Tom
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:50 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

                              ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from the
                              flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same speed, so
                              the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time dilation
                              between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                              *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver, though,
                              of course the light is headed out at exactly c.

                              i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external observer, the
                              high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam leaving
                              it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my message at
                              the top, and left off my personal interpretation...


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@...>
                              Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM


                              > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                              > light doesn't get "stuck".




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                            • manifold_1
                              Yes, that is correct. Also note that due to the increased inertia, time dilation and physical shortening effects we get what can only be described as a corn
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                Yes, that is correct. Also note that due to the increased inertia,
                                time dilation and physical shortening effects we get what can only be
                                described as a "corn ball" ;)


                                --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Tom" <yahoo@c...> wrote:
                                > and I thought the "c" in E=mc^2 stood for "corn" :-)
                                > Shows what I know.
                                >
                                > Tom
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: Wolf Logan
                                > To: Electronics_101@y...
                                > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:50 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.
                                >
                                >
                                > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming
                                from the
                                > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                                speed, so
                                > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                dilation
                                > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight
                                driver, though,
                                > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                >
                                > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                observer, the
                                > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                                leaving
                                > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                message at
                                > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                >
                                >
                                > ----- Original Message -----
                                > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                >
                                >
                                > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what
                                happens - the
                                > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                                > ADVERTISEMENT
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                                Service.
                              • A.R.S. Alvin Koffman KA9QLQ
                                Ah common sense science. http://www.commonsensescience.org/ Alvin [8*9 Homepage http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/ Make money while you surf click below to learn
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                  Ah common sense science.
                                  Alvin [8*9
                                  Homepage
                                  http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/
                                  Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
                                  http://about.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=2792533
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 6:09 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

                                  On Tue, 6 Aug 2002 23:52:09 -0700, you wrote:

                                  >even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                                  >i'll correct this one right now.
                                  >
                                  >if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                                  >wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                                  >since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                                  The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                                  light doesn't get "stuck".

                                  OK, you can't have a flashlight or any material object travelling at the
                                  speed of light, but if it's going at 0.999C (or as close as you want)
                                  the light coming out of it is still going at exactly C.  Both the
                                  observer travelling with the flashlight, and a stationary observer will
                                  measure the same speed.

                                  They might measure different frequencies though :-)

                                  >refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                                  >relativity to get the whole scoop.

                                  I've been helping a friend doing a university physics course, and just
                                  finished the relativity section.  It's really interesting, although it
                                  can seem to be a bit wacky at times.  You can't use common sense, you
                                  have to trust the maths.

                                  David P.



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                                  Electronics_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                                • mattsoftnet
                                  my theory is, if you re in space, and there s nothing around you to use as a reference, there is no such thing as moving . motion is relitive to another
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                    my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you to
                                    use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                    relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near the
                                    speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at the
                                    speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                    too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                    second person. right?

                                    sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                    interesting. :-)

                                    Matthew Kemmerer
                                    Mattsoft.net


                                    --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                    > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from
                                    the
                                    > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                                    speed, so
                                    > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                    dilation
                                    > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                    > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver,
                                    though,
                                    > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                    >
                                    > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                    observer, the
                                    > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                                    leaving
                                    > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                    message at
                                    > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens -
                                    the
                                    > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                  • Tom
                                    Well, I think the scientific community would say no. I of course don t know myself, but from what I understand the speed of light is constant, not relative. So
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                      Well, I think the scientific community would say no. I of course don't know myself, but from what I understand the speed of light is constant, not relative. So if a light source is traveling at or away from you, its apparent speed is the same. If a car is traveling at 100mph, the light from the headlights isn't lightspeed+100mph (relative to you). Like I say, I haven't done any tests of my own, just giving my understanding of what my "A Brief History of Time" CD-ROM said :)
                                       
                                      I hate to keep this off-topic thing going too so we should really start a new group if we are going to keep this up.
                                       
                                      Tom
                                      my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you to
                                      use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                      relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near the
                                      speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at the
                                      speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                      too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                      second person. right?

                                      sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                      interesting. :-)

                                      Matthew Kemmerer
                                      Mattsoft.net


                                      --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                      > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from
                                      the
                                      > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                                      speed, so
                                      > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                      dilation
                                      > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                      > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver,
                                      though,
                                      > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                      >
                                      > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                      observer, the
                                      > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                                      leaving
                                      > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                      message at
                                      > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                      > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens -
                                      the
                                      > > light doesn't get "stuck".



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                                    • Dave Hylands
                                      This would be true if your size didn t change. If you study the theory of relativity, you ll discovery that as you approach the speed of light, your dimensions
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
                                        This would be true if your size didn't change. If you study the theory of
                                        relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach the speed of light, your
                                        dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't remember) in the
                                        direction that you're travelling. Your mass will also start to approach
                                        inifinity.

                                        The fact that your dimensions change is why both you and an observer measure
                                        the speed of light as being the same.

                                        My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.

                                        Dave Hylands

                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@...]
                                        > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                        > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you to
                                        > use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                        > relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near the
                                        > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at the
                                        > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                        > too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                        > second person. right?
                                        >
                                        > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                        > interesting. :-)
                                        >
                                        > Matthew Kemmerer
                                        > Mattsoft.net
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                        > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from
                                        > the
                                        > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                                        > speed, so
                                        > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                        > dilation
                                        > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                        > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver,
                                        > though,
                                        > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                        > >
                                        > > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                        > observer, the
                                        > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                                        > leaving
                                        > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                        > message at
                                        > > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                        > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens -
                                        > the
                                        > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                        >
                                        >
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                                      • manifold_1
                                        Right, does anyone have an _electronics_ project that can measure the speed of light? ... theory of ... light, your ... approach ... observer measure ... to
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
                                          Right, does anyone have an _electronics_ project that can measure the
                                          speed of light?


                                          --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Dave Hylands" <dhylands@b...> wrote:
                                          > This would be true if your size didn't change. If you study the
                                          theory of
                                          > relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach the speed of
                                          light, your
                                          > dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't remember) in the
                                          > direction that you're travelling. Your mass will also start to
                                          approach
                                          > inifinity.
                                          >
                                          > The fact that your dimensions change is why both you and an
                                          observer measure
                                          > the speed of light as being the same.
                                          >
                                          > My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.
                                          >
                                          > Dave Hylands
                                          >
                                          > > -----Original Message-----
                                          > > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@m...]
                                          > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                          > > To: Electronics_101@y...
                                          > > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you
                                          to
                                          > > use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                          > > relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near
                                          the
                                          > > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at
                                          the
                                          > > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                          > > too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                          > > second person. right?
                                          > >
                                          > > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                          > > interesting. :-)
                                          > >
                                          > > Matthew Kemmerer
                                          > > Mattsoft.net
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                          > > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming
                                          from
                                          > > the
                                          > > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the
                                          same
                                          > > speed, so
                                          > > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                          > > dilation
                                          > > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                          > > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight
                                          driver,
                                          > > though,
                                          > > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                          > > >
                                          > > > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                          > > observer, the
                                          > > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light
                                          beam
                                          > > leaving
                                          > > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                          > > message at
                                          > > > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                          > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what
                                          happens -
                                          > > the
                                          > > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                          > > ---------------------~-->
                                          > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
                                          > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/1EGslB/TM
                                          > > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                          > > -------~->
                                          > >
                                          > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          > > Electronics_101-unsubscribe@y...
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                          > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                        • mattsoftnet
                                          there s a type of telescope that measures the speed of a star relitive to us. I think it s called a spectrograph. it s like a telescope, but it has a glass
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
                                            there's a type of telescope that measures the speed of a star
                                            relitive to us. I think it's called a spectrograph. it's like a
                                            telescope, but it has a glass spectrum in it. sense blue and purple
                                            are a lower frequency then yellow and green, purple would be brighter
                                            in the spectrum if a star is moving away from us, and yellow or green
                                            would be brighter if it's moving towards us. that's how they can
                                            prove space is expanding from the big bang. it works the same way
                                            with sound waves. when a car drives past you, it has a deeper sound
                                            once it passes. light is a form of energy. it works similar to sound
                                            waves.

                                            Matthew Kemmerer
                                            Mattsoft.net
                                          • EarthWind FireWater
                                            Hi Dave. Maybe through exotic matter they can find a material that doesn t expand with greater velocity or at light speed. At one time science didn t think
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
                                              Hi Dave.
                                              Maybe through exotic matter they can find a material
                                              that doesn't expand with greater velocity or at light
                                              speed. At one time science didn't think that plastics
                                              would ever be a superconductor but the best
                                              superconductor in the world today is a plastic which
                                              superconducts at room temperature.
                                              What we can't do yet is only because of a lack of
                                              knowledge and technology.
                                              Best of luck.
                                              Jerry.


                                              --- Dave Hylands <dhylands@...> wrote:
                                              > This would be true if your size didn't change. If
                                              > you study the theory of
                                              > relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach
                                              > the speed of light, your
                                              > dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't
                                              > remember) in the
                                              > direction that you're travelling. Your mass will
                                              > also start to approach
                                              > inifinity.
                                              >
                                              > The fact that your dimensions change is why both you
                                              > and an observer measure
                                              > the speed of light as being the same.
                                              >
                                              > My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.
                                              >
                                              > Dave Hylands
                                              >
                                              > > -----Original Message-----
                                              > > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@...]
                                              > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                              > > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On
                                              > Radar.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's
                                              > nothing around you to
                                              > > use as a reference, there is no such thing as
                                              > "moving". motion is
                                              > > relitive to another object, right? so if you're
                                              > moving at or near the
                                              > > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is
                                              > still moving at the
                                              > > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's
                                              > someone else there
                                              > > too, the light would be twice the speed of light
                                              > relitive to that
                                              > > second person. right?
                                              > >
                                              > > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but
                                              > it's too
                                              > > interesting. :-)
                                              > >
                                              > > Matthew Kemmerer
                                              > > Mattsoft.net
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan"
                                              > <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                              > > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer,
                                              > the light coming from
                                              > > the
                                              > > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are
                                              > travelling at the same
                                              > > speed, so
                                              > > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from
                                              > that frame). time
                                              > > dilation
                                              > > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame
                                              > makes just about
                                              > > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the
                                              > flashlight driver,
                                              > > though,
                                              > > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > i was trying to address the misconception that,
                                              > to an external
                                              > > observer, the
                                              > > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added"
                                              > to the light beam
                                              > > leaving
                                              > > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at
                                              > the bottom of my
                                              > > message at
                                              > > > the top, and left off my personal
                                              > interpretation...
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                              > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this
                                              > isn't what happens -
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > > ---------------------~-->
                                              > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/1EGslB/TM
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              --------------------------------------------------------------
                                              > > -------~->
                                              > >
                                              > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > > Electronics_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >


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                                            • manifold_1
                                              It is called Lorentz Contraction and it is not a property of the material. It is only an observation of what happens from the point of view of a different
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
                                                It is called Lorentz Contraction and it is not a property of the
                                                material. It is only an observation of what happens from the point of
                                                view of a different frame of reference traveling at relatavistic
                                                velocities. It is not something you would feel or even notice in your
                                                own frame of reference.

                                                You may be experiencing Lorentz Contraction now!

                                                --- In Electronics_101@y..., EarthWind FireWater
                                                <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
                                                > Hi Dave.
                                                > Maybe through exotic matter they can find a material
                                                > that doesn't expand with greater velocity or at light
                                                > speed. At one time science didn't think that plastics
                                                > would ever be a superconductor but the best
                                                > superconductor in the world today is a plastic which
                                                > superconducts at room temperature.
                                                > What we can't do yet is only because of a lack of
                                                > knowledge and technology.
                                                > Best of luck.
                                                > Jerry.
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > --- Dave Hylands <dhylands@b...> wrote:
                                                > > This would be true if your size didn't change. If
                                                > > you study the theory of
                                                > > relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach
                                                > > the speed of light, your
                                                > > dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't
                                                > > remember) in the
                                                > > direction that you're travelling. Your mass will
                                                > > also start to approach
                                                > > inifinity.
                                                > >
                                                > > The fact that your dimensions change is why both you
                                                > > and an observer measure
                                                > > the speed of light as being the same.
                                                > >
                                                > > My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.
                                                > >
                                                > > Dave Hylands
                                                > >
                                                > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                > > > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@m...]
                                                > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                                > > > To: Electronics_101@y...
                                                > > > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On
                                                > > Radar.
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's
                                                > > nothing around you to
                                                > > > use as a reference, there is no such thing as
                                                > > "moving". motion is
                                                > > > relitive to another object, right? so if you're
                                                > > moving at or near the
                                                > > > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is
                                                > > still moving at the
                                                > > > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's
                                                > > someone else there
                                                > > > too, the light would be twice the speed of light
                                                > > relitive to that
                                                > > > second person. right?
                                                > > >
                                                > > > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but
                                                > > it's too
                                                > > > interesting. :-)
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Matthew Kemmerer
                                                > > > Mattsoft.net
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan"
                                                > > <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                                > > > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer,
                                                > > the light coming from
                                                > > > the
                                                > > > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are
                                                > > travelling at the same
                                                > > > speed, so
                                                > > > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from
                                                > > that frame). time
                                                > > > dilation
                                                > > > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame
                                                > > makes just about
                                                > > > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the
                                                > > flashlight driver,
                                                > > > though,
                                                > > > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > i was trying to address the misconception that,
                                                > > to an external
                                                > > > observer, the
                                                > > > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added"
                                                > > to the light beam
                                                > > > leaving
                                                > > > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at
                                                > > the bottom of my
                                                > > > message at
                                                > > > > the top, and left off my personal
                                                > > interpretation...
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                > > > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                                > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > >
                                                > > > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this
                                                > > isn't what happens -
                                                > > > the
                                                > > > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                > > > ---------------------~-->
                                                > > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/1EGslB/TM
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                                > > > -------~->
                                                > > >
                                                > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                > > > Electronics_101-unsubscribe@y...
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                                >
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