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Group Question On Radar.

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  • onthecuttingedge2005
    Do we have the Radar technology capable of detecting a spacecraft at light speed. If so. Are we looking for them? If we don t have Radar capable of detecting a
    Message 1 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
      Do we have the Radar technology capable of detecting a spacecraft at
      light speed.
      If so. Are we looking for them?
      If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a light speed spacecraft
      then we better build one and start looking at this velocity in space.
      Best of luck.
      Jerry.
    • Wolf Logan
      ok, you re joking, right? ... From: onthecuttingedge2005 Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 5:02 PM
      Message 2 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
        ok, you're joking, right?

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "onthecuttingedge2005" <onthecuttingedge2005@...>
        Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 5:02 PM


        > Do we have the Radar technology capable of detecting a spacecraft at
        > light speed.
        > If so. Are we looking for them?
        > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a light speed spacecraft
        > then we better build one and start looking at this velocity in space.
      • jdb000001
        Now that would be difficult. RADAR is short for radio detection and ranging. Since radio waves travel at the speed of light, the spacecraft would be
        Message 3 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
          Now that would be difficult. RADAR is short for radio detection and
          ranging. Since radio waves travel at the speed of light, the
          spacecraft would be traveling at the same speed as the radio waves,
          and would not give you any warning of its approach. Also, since the
          current laws of physics do not allow for any material object to
          travel at the speed of light, designing something to track such an
          object would have to defy the very laws you were using to build it.

          You might want to see if there is a yahoo group for theoretical
          physics. Maybe they would have some ideas.
        • A.R.S. Alvin Koffman KA9QLQ
          I still don t buy that light barrier stuff. Alvin [8*9 Homepage http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/ Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
          Message 4 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
            I still don't buy that light barrier stuff.
            Alvin [8*9
            Homepage
            http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/
            Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
            http://about.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=2792533
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: jdb000001
            Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 10:32 PM
            Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

            Now that would be difficult.  RADAR is short for radio detection and
            ranging.  Since radio waves travel at the speed of light, the
            spacecraft would be traveling at the same speed as the radio waves,
            and would not give you any warning of its approach.  Also, since the
            current laws of physics do not allow for any material object to
            travel at the speed of light, designing something to track such an
            object would have to defy the very laws you were using to build it.

            You might want to see if there is a yahoo group for theoretical
            physics.  Maybe they would have some ideas.





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          • manifold_1
            This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you can find kinship in some of these groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
            Message 5 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
              This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you can find kinship
              in some of these groups:

              http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
              http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
              http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
              http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1

              ...always willing to help.

              --- In Electronics_101@y..., "onthecuttingedge2005"
              <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
              > Do we have the Radar technology capable of detecting a spacecraft
              at
              > light speed.
              > If so. Are we looking for them?
              > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a light speed
              spacecraft
              > then we better build one and start looking at this velocity in
              space.
              > Best of luck.
              > Jerry.
            • EarthWind FireWater
              You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics? Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced equipment? Best of luck. Jerry. ...
              Message 6 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
                You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics?
                Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced
                equipment?
                Best of luck.
                Jerry.

                --- manifold_1 <manifold_1@...> wrote:
                > This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you
                > can find kinship
                > in some of these groups:
                >
                >
                http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
                >
                http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1
                >
                > ...always willing to help.
                >
                > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "onthecuttingedge2005"
                > <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
                > > Do we have the Radar technology capable of
                > detecting a spacecraft
                > at
                > > light speed.
                > > If so. Are we looking for them?
                > > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a
                > light speed
                > spacecraft
                > > then we better build one and start looking at this
                > velocity in
                > space.
                > > Best of luck.
                > > Jerry.
                >
                >


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              • EarthWind FireWater
                Do you think a thousand years we will bust the light barrier. If so maybe ET could to. Coasting along at light speed could make an ET vehicle sorta very hard
                Message 7 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
                  Do you think a thousand years we will bust the light
                  barrier. If so maybe ET could to.
                  Coasting along at light speed could make an ET vehicle
                  sorta very hard to see even by the naked eye let alone
                  Rader.
                  We have found so many answers maybe time will tell.
                  somebody will find the equasions to do it one day.
                  Best of luck.
                  Jerry.

                  --- "A.R.S. Alvin Koffman KA9QLQ" <ka9qlq@...>
                  wrote:
                  > I still don't buy that light barrier stuff.
                  > Alvin [8*9
                  > Homepage
                  > http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/
                  > Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
                  >
                  http://about.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=2792533
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: jdb000001
                  > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 10:32 PM
                  > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On
                  > Radar.
                  >
                  >
                  > Now that would be difficult. RADAR is short for
                  > radio detection and
                  > ranging. Since radio waves travel at the speed of
                  > light, the
                  > spacecraft would be traveling at the same speed as
                  > the radio waves,
                  > and would not give you any warning of its
                  > approach. Also, since the
                  > current laws of physics do not allow for any
                  > material object to
                  > travel at the speed of light, designing something
                  > to track such an
                  > object would have to defy the very laws you were
                  > using to build it.
                  >
                  > You might want to see if there is a yahoo group
                  > for theoretical
                  > physics. Maybe they would have some ideas.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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                  > ADVERTISEMENT
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                  >
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                  > Terms of Service.
                  >
                  >


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                • Tom
                  I think it s more the looking for aliens thing that has nothing to do with electronics, at least not in the context we usually discuss in here. The groups
                  Message 8 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
                    I think it's more the "looking for aliens" thing that has nothing to do with electronics, at least not in the context we usually discuss in here. The groups manifold_1 listed below seem to be right on track with the kinds of things you prefer to discuss. The kind of electronics we usually discuss in here relate more to everyday electronics. I do kind of enjoy looking at your theoretical designs but you will get a better response from people in the groups listed below since they seem to share your interest in extraterrestrial applications.
                     
                    Tom
                    You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics?
                    Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced
                    equipment?
                    Best of luck.
                    Jerry.

                    --- manifold_1 <manifold_1@...> wrote:
                    > This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps you
                    > can find kinship
                    > in some of these groups:
                    >
                    >
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
                    >
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1
                    >
                    > ...always willing to help.
                    >
                    > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "onthecuttingedge2005"
                    > <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
                    > > Do we have the Radar technology capable of
                    > detecting a spacecraft
                    > at
                    > > light speed.
                    > > If so. Are we looking for them?
                    > > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a
                    > light speed
                    > spacecraft
                    > > then we better build one and start looking at this
                    > velocity in
                    > space.
                    > > Best of luck.
                    > > Jerry.
                    >
                    >


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                    Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better
                    http://health.yahoo.com


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                  • EarthWind FireWater
                    It was just a question on our Rader capability. That was all. I thought some electronic experts might have an idea to the question so I asked. Best of luck.
                    Message 9 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
                      It was just a question on our Rader capability.
                      That was all.
                      I thought some electronic experts might have an idea
                      to the question so I asked.
                      Best of luck.
                      Jerry.

                      --- Tom <yahoo@...> wrote:
                      > I think it's more the "looking for aliens" thing
                      > that has nothing to do with electronics, at least
                      > not in the context we usually discuss in here. The
                      > groups manifold_1 listed below seem to be right on
                      > track with the kinds of things you prefer to
                      > discuss. The kind of electronics we usually discuss
                      > in here relate more to everyday electronics. I do
                      > kind of enjoy looking at your theoretical designs
                      > but you will get a better response from people in
                      > the groups listed below since they seem to share
                      > your interest in extraterrestrial applications.
                      >
                      > Tom
                      > You mean Radar has nothing to do with electronics?
                      > Or upgrading our Radar facilities to more advanced
                      > equipment?
                      > Best of luck.
                      > Jerry.
                      >
                      > --- manifold_1 <manifold_1@...> wrote:
                      > > This has nothing to do with electronics. Perhaps
                      > you
                      > > can find kinship
                      > > in some of these groups:
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=metaphysics&ss=1
                      > >
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=pseudoscience
                      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=orgone
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=space%20aliens&ss=1
                      > >
                      > > ...always willing to help.
                      > >
                      > > --- In Electronics_101@y...,
                      > "onthecuttingedge2005"
                      > > <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
                      > > > Do we have the Radar technology capable of
                      > > detecting a spacecraft
                      > > at
                      > > > light speed.
                      > > > If so. Are we looking for them?
                      > > > If we don't have Radar capable of detecting a
                      > > light speed
                      > > spacecraft
                      > > > then we better build one and start looking at
                      > this
                      > > velocity in
                      > > space.
                      > > > Best of luck.
                      > > > Jerry.
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
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                      >
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                      >
                      >
                      >
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                      > Terms of Service.
                      >
                      >


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                    • mattsoftnet
                      the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you re holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming from the flashlight would
                      Message 10 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
                        the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you're
                        holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming
                        from the flashlight would be moving at double the speed of light.
                        there's nothing stopping the light from doing that speed, why would
                        there be anything stopping a space craft? theoretically.

                        Matthew Kemmerer
                        Mattsoft.net
                      • Wolf Logan
                        even though this mailing list is electronics_101 and not physics_101 , i ll correct this one right now. if you re holding a flashlight and moving at the
                        Message 11 of 24 , Aug 6, 2002
                          even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                          i'll correct this one right now.

                          if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                          wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                          since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                          refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                          relativity to get the whole scoop.

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "mattsoftnet" <mattsoft@...>
                          Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 11:06 PM


                          > the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you're
                          > holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming
                          > from the flashlight would be moving at double the speed of light.
                          > there's nothing stopping the light from doing that speed, why would
                          > there be anything stopping a space craft? theoretically.
                        • Albert van Mil
                          Hi, If you hold a flashlight and move near lightspeed yourself, then for you the light from the flashlight moves at speed c. For an outside observer the light
                          Message 12 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                      Hi,
                             
                                      If you hold a flashlight and move near lightspeed yourself, then for you the
                                      light from the flashlight moves at speed c. For an outside observer the
                                      light will also move at speed c. That's what the Lorentz transformations predict,
                                      whatever you try, light will retain lightspeed c for ANY observer (in special
                                      relativity, not in general relativity).
                             
                                              Cheers Albert (PhD).
                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: Wolf Logan [mailto:wolf@...]
                            Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 8:52 AM
                            To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

                            even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                            i'll correct this one right now.

                            if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                            wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                            since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                            refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                            relativity to get the whole scoop.

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "mattsoftnet" <mattsoft@...>
                            Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2002 11:06 PM


                            > the speed of an object is relative to another object. if you're
                            > holding a flashlight, moving at the speed of light, the light coming
                            > from the flashlight would be moving at double the speed of light.
                            > there's nothing stopping the light from doing that speed, why would
                            > there be anything stopping a space craft? theoretically.




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                            Electronics_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                          • David Paterson
                            ... The weird thing about relativity is that this isn t what happens - the light doesn t get stuck . OK, you can t have a flashlight or any material object
                            Message 13 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                              On Tue, 6 Aug 2002 23:52:09 -0700, you wrote:

                              >even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                              >i'll correct this one right now.
                              >
                              >if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                              >wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                              >since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                              The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                              light doesn't get "stuck".

                              OK, you can't have a flashlight or any material object travelling at the
                              speed of light, but if it's going at 0.999C (or as close as you want)
                              the light coming out of it is still going at exactly C. Both the
                              observer travelling with the flashlight, and a stationary observer will
                              measure the same speed.

                              They might measure different frequencies though :-)

                              >refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                              >relativity to get the whole scoop.

                              I've been helping a friend doing a university physics course, and just
                              finished the relativity section. It's really interesting, although it
                              can seem to be a bit wacky at times. You can't use common sense, you
                              have to trust the maths.

                              David P.
                            • Wolf Logan
                              ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from the flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same speed, so the light
                              Message 14 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from the
                                flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same speed, so
                                the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time dilation
                                between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver, though,
                                of course the light is headed out at exactly c.

                                i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external observer, the
                                high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam leaving
                                it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my message at
                                the top, and left off my personal interpretation...


                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@...>
                                Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM


                                > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                                > light doesn't get "stuck".
                              • Tom
                                and I thought the c in E=mc^2 stood for corn :-) Shows what I know. Tom ... From: Wolf Logan To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August
                                Message 15 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                  and I thought the "c" in E=mc^2 stood for "corn" :-)
                                  Shows what I know.
                                   
                                  Tom
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:50 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

                                  ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from the
                                  flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same speed, so
                                  the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time dilation
                                  between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                  *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver, though,
                                  of course the light is headed out at exactly c.

                                  i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external observer, the
                                  high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam leaving
                                  it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my message at
                                  the top, and left off my personal interpretation...


                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@...>
                                  Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM


                                  > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                                  > light doesn't get "stuck".




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                                • manifold_1
                                  Yes, that is correct. Also note that due to the increased inertia, time dilation and physical shortening effects we get what can only be described as a corn
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                    Yes, that is correct. Also note that due to the increased inertia,
                                    time dilation and physical shortening effects we get what can only be
                                    described as a "corn ball" ;)


                                    --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Tom" <yahoo@c...> wrote:
                                    > and I thought the "c" in E=mc^2 stood for "corn" :-)
                                    > Shows what I know.
                                    >
                                    > Tom
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: Wolf Logan
                                    > To: Electronics_101@y...
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:50 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming
                                    from the
                                    > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                                    speed, so
                                    > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                    dilation
                                    > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                    > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight
                                    driver, though,
                                    > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                    >
                                    > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                    observer, the
                                    > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                                    leaving
                                    > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                    message at
                                    > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ----- Original Message -----
                                    > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                    > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what
                                    happens - the
                                    > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                    > ADVERTISEMENT
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                                    >
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                                    >
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                                    Service.
                                  • A.R.S. Alvin Koffman KA9QLQ
                                    Ah common sense science. http://www.commonsensescience.org/ Alvin [8*9 Homepage http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/ Make money while you surf click below to learn
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                      Ah common sense science.
                                      Alvin [8*9
                                      Homepage
                                      http://ka9qlq.tripod.com/home/
                                      Make money while you surf click below to learn more.
                                      http://about.spedia.net/cgi-bin/tz.cgi?run=show_svc&fl=8&vid=2792533
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 6:09 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.

                                      On Tue, 6 Aug 2002 23:52:09 -0700, you wrote:

                                      >even though this mailing list is "electronics_101" and not "physics_101",
                                      >i'll correct this one right now.
                                      >
                                      >if you're holding a flashlight and moving at the speed of light, there
                                      >wouldn't be any light coming out of the flashlight. it would be "stuck",
                                      >since it would *also* be travelling at the same speed.

                                      The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens - the
                                      light doesn't get "stuck".

                                      OK, you can't have a flashlight or any material object travelling at the
                                      speed of light, but if it's going at 0.999C (or as close as you want)
                                      the light coming out of it is still going at exactly C.  Both the
                                      observer travelling with the flashlight, and a stationary observer will
                                      measure the same speed.

                                      They might measure different frequencies though :-)

                                      >refer to any standard reference on the general and special theories of
                                      >relativity to get the whole scoop.

                                      I've been helping a friend doing a university physics course, and just
                                      finished the relativity section.  It's really interesting, although it
                                      can seem to be a bit wacky at times.  You can't use common sense, you
                                      have to trust the maths.

                                      David P.



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                                      Electronics_101-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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                                    • mattsoftnet
                                      my theory is, if you re in space, and there s nothing around you to use as a reference, there is no such thing as moving . motion is relitive to another
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                        my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you to
                                        use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                        relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near the
                                        speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at the
                                        speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                        too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                        second person. right?

                                        sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                        interesting. :-)

                                        Matthew Kemmerer
                                        Mattsoft.net


                                        --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                        > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from
                                        the
                                        > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                                        speed, so
                                        > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                        dilation
                                        > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                        > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver,
                                        though,
                                        > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                        >
                                        > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                        observer, the
                                        > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                                        leaving
                                        > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                        message at
                                        > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                        > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens -
                                        the
                                        > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                      • Tom
                                        Well, I think the scientific community would say no. I of course don t know myself, but from what I understand the speed of light is constant, not relative. So
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Aug 7, 2002
                                          Well, I think the scientific community would say no. I of course don't know myself, but from what I understand the speed of light is constant, not relative. So if a light source is traveling at or away from you, its apparent speed is the same. If a car is traveling at 100mph, the light from the headlights isn't lightspeed+100mph (relative to you). Like I say, I haven't done any tests of my own, just giving my understanding of what my "A Brief History of Time" CD-ROM said :)
                                           
                                          I hate to keep this off-topic thing going too so we should really start a new group if we are going to keep this up.
                                           
                                          Tom
                                          my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you to
                                          use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                          relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near the
                                          speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at the
                                          speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                          too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                          second person. right?

                                          sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                          interesting. :-)

                                          Matthew Kemmerer
                                          Mattsoft.net


                                          --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                          > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from
                                          the
                                          > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                                          speed, so
                                          > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                          dilation
                                          > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                          > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver,
                                          though,
                                          > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                          >
                                          > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                          observer, the
                                          > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                                          leaving
                                          > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                          message at
                                          > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                          > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens -
                                          the
                                          > > light doesn't get "stuck".



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                                        • Dave Hylands
                                          This would be true if your size didn t change. If you study the theory of relativity, you ll discovery that as you approach the speed of light, your dimensions
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
                                            This would be true if your size didn't change. If you study the theory of
                                            relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach the speed of light, your
                                            dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't remember) in the
                                            direction that you're travelling. Your mass will also start to approach
                                            inifinity.

                                            The fact that your dimensions change is why both you and an observer measure
                                            the speed of light as being the same.

                                            My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.

                                            Dave Hylands

                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@...]
                                            > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                            > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you to
                                            > use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                            > relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near the
                                            > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at the
                                            > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                            > too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                            > second person. right?
                                            >
                                            > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                            > interesting. :-)
                                            >
                                            > Matthew Kemmerer
                                            > Mattsoft.net
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                            > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming from
                                            > the
                                            > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the same
                                            > speed, so
                                            > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                            > dilation
                                            > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                            > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight driver,
                                            > though,
                                            > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                            > >
                                            > > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                            > observer, the
                                            > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light beam
                                            > leaving
                                            > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                            > message at
                                            > > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                            > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what happens -
                                            > the
                                            > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                            >
                                            >
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                                          • manifold_1
                                            Right, does anyone have an _electronics_ project that can measure the speed of light? ... theory of ... light, your ... approach ... observer measure ... to
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
                                              Right, does anyone have an _electronics_ project that can measure the
                                              speed of light?


                                              --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Dave Hylands" <dhylands@b...> wrote:
                                              > This would be true if your size didn't change. If you study the
                                              theory of
                                              > relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach the speed of
                                              light, your
                                              > dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't remember) in the
                                              > direction that you're travelling. Your mass will also start to
                                              approach
                                              > inifinity.
                                              >
                                              > The fact that your dimensions change is why both you and an
                                              observer measure
                                              > the speed of light as being the same.
                                              >
                                              > My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.
                                              >
                                              > Dave Hylands
                                              >
                                              > > -----Original Message-----
                                              > > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@m...]
                                              > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                              > > To: Electronics_101@y...
                                              > > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On Radar.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's nothing around you
                                              to
                                              > > use as a reference, there is no such thing as "moving". motion is
                                              > > relitive to another object, right? so if you're moving at or near
                                              the
                                              > > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is still moving at
                                              the
                                              > > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's someone else there
                                              > > too, the light would be twice the speed of light relitive to that
                                              > > second person. right?
                                              > >
                                              > > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but it's too
                                              > > interesting. :-)
                                              > >
                                              > > Matthew Kemmerer
                                              > > Mattsoft.net
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan" <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                              > > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer, the light coming
                                              from
                                              > > the
                                              > > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are travelling at the
                                              same
                                              > > speed, so
                                              > > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from that frame). time
                                              > > dilation
                                              > > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame makes just about
                                              > > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the flashlight
                                              driver,
                                              > > though,
                                              > > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > i was trying to address the misconception that, to an external
                                              > > observer, the
                                              > > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added" to the light
                                              beam
                                              > > leaving
                                              > > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at the bottom of my
                                              > > message at
                                              > > > the top, and left off my personal interpretation...
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                              > > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                              > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                              > > >
                                              > > >
                                              > > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this isn't what
                                              happens -
                                              > > the
                                              > > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                              > > ---------------------~-->
                                              > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
                                              > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/1EGslB/TM
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                                              > > -------~->
                                              > >
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                                              > > Electronics_101-unsubscribe@y...
                                              > >
                                              > >
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                                              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                            • mattsoftnet
                                              there s a type of telescope that measures the speed of a star relitive to us. I think it s called a spectrograph. it s like a telescope, but it has a glass
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
                                                there's a type of telescope that measures the speed of a star
                                                relitive to us. I think it's called a spectrograph. it's like a
                                                telescope, but it has a glass spectrum in it. sense blue and purple
                                                are a lower frequency then yellow and green, purple would be brighter
                                                in the spectrum if a star is moving away from us, and yellow or green
                                                would be brighter if it's moving towards us. that's how they can
                                                prove space is expanding from the big bang. it works the same way
                                                with sound waves. when a car drives past you, it has a deeper sound
                                                once it passes. light is a form of energy. it works similar to sound
                                                waves.

                                                Matthew Kemmerer
                                                Mattsoft.net
                                              • EarthWind FireWater
                                                Hi Dave. Maybe through exotic matter they can find a material that doesn t expand with greater velocity or at light speed. At one time science didn t think
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
                                                  Hi Dave.
                                                  Maybe through exotic matter they can find a material
                                                  that doesn't expand with greater velocity or at light
                                                  speed. At one time science didn't think that plastics
                                                  would ever be a superconductor but the best
                                                  superconductor in the world today is a plastic which
                                                  superconducts at room temperature.
                                                  What we can't do yet is only because of a lack of
                                                  knowledge and technology.
                                                  Best of luck.
                                                  Jerry.


                                                  --- Dave Hylands <dhylands@...> wrote:
                                                  > This would be true if your size didn't change. If
                                                  > you study the theory of
                                                  > relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach
                                                  > the speed of light, your
                                                  > dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't
                                                  > remember) in the
                                                  > direction that you're travelling. Your mass will
                                                  > also start to approach
                                                  > inifinity.
                                                  >
                                                  > The fact that your dimensions change is why both you
                                                  > and an observer measure
                                                  > the speed of light as being the same.
                                                  >
                                                  > My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.
                                                  >
                                                  > Dave Hylands
                                                  >
                                                  > > -----Original Message-----
                                                  > > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@...]
                                                  > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                                  > > To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
                                                  > > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On
                                                  > Radar.
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's
                                                  > nothing around you to
                                                  > > use as a reference, there is no such thing as
                                                  > "moving". motion is
                                                  > > relitive to another object, right? so if you're
                                                  > moving at or near the
                                                  > > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is
                                                  > still moving at the
                                                  > > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's
                                                  > someone else there
                                                  > > too, the light would be twice the speed of light
                                                  > relitive to that
                                                  > > second person. right?
                                                  > >
                                                  > > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but
                                                  > it's too
                                                  > > interesting. :-)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Matthew Kemmerer
                                                  > > Mattsoft.net
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan"
                                                  > <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                                  > > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer,
                                                  > the light coming from
                                                  > > the
                                                  > > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are
                                                  > travelling at the same
                                                  > > speed, so
                                                  > > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from
                                                  > that frame). time
                                                  > > dilation
                                                  > > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame
                                                  > makes just about
                                                  > > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the
                                                  > flashlight driver,
                                                  > > though,
                                                  > > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > i was trying to address the misconception that,
                                                  > to an external
                                                  > > observer, the
                                                  > > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added"
                                                  > to the light beam
                                                  > > leaving
                                                  > > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at
                                                  > the bottom of my
                                                  > > message at
                                                  > > > the top, and left off my personal
                                                  > interpretation...
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                  > > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                                  > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > >
                                                  > > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this
                                                  > isn't what happens -
                                                  > > the
                                                  > > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                  > > ---------------------~-->
                                                  > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
                                                  > >
                                                  >
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                                                  > >
                                                  >
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                                                  > > -------~->
                                                  > >
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                                                  > >
                                                  > >
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                                                  > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                  >


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                                                • manifold_1
                                                  It is called Lorentz Contraction and it is not a property of the material. It is only an observation of what happens from the point of view of a different
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Aug 8, 2002
                                                    It is called Lorentz Contraction and it is not a property of the
                                                    material. It is only an observation of what happens from the point of
                                                    view of a different frame of reference traveling at relatavistic
                                                    velocities. It is not something you would feel or even notice in your
                                                    own frame of reference.

                                                    You may be experiencing Lorentz Contraction now!

                                                    --- In Electronics_101@y..., EarthWind FireWater
                                                    <onthecuttingedge2005@y...> wrote:
                                                    > Hi Dave.
                                                    > Maybe through exotic matter they can find a material
                                                    > that doesn't expand with greater velocity or at light
                                                    > speed. At one time science didn't think that plastics
                                                    > would ever be a superconductor but the best
                                                    > superconductor in the world today is a plastic which
                                                    > superconducts at room temperature.
                                                    > What we can't do yet is only because of a lack of
                                                    > knowledge and technology.
                                                    > Best of luck.
                                                    > Jerry.
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > --- Dave Hylands <dhylands@b...> wrote:
                                                    > > This would be true if your size didn't change. If
                                                    > > you study the theory of
                                                    > > relativity, you'll discovery that as you approach
                                                    > > the speed of light, your
                                                    > > dimensions will become larger (or smaller? I can't
                                                    > > remember) in the
                                                    > > direction that you're travelling. Your mass will
                                                    > > also start to approach
                                                    > > inifinity.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > The fact that your dimensions change is why both you
                                                    > > and an observer measure
                                                    > > the speed of light as being the same.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > My brain hurts when I think about this stuff.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Dave Hylands
                                                    > >
                                                    > > > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > > > From: mattsoftnet [mailto:mattsoft@m...]
                                                    > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 9:52 PM
                                                    > > > To: Electronics_101@y...
                                                    > > > Subject: [Electronics_101] Re: Group Question On
                                                    > > Radar.
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > my theory is, if you're in space, and there's
                                                    > > nothing around you to
                                                    > > > use as a reference, there is no such thing as
                                                    > > "moving". motion is
                                                    > > > relitive to another object, right? so if you're
                                                    > > moving at or near the
                                                    > > > speed of light, with the flashlight, the light is
                                                    > > still moving at the
                                                    > > > speed of light relitive to you. but if there's
                                                    > > someone else there
                                                    > > > too, the light would be twice the speed of light
                                                    > > relitive to that
                                                    > > > second person. right?
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > sorry to keep this off topic subject going, but
                                                    > > it's too
                                                    > > > interesting. :-)
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Matthew Kemmerer
                                                    > > > Mattsoft.net
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "Wolf Logan"
                                                    > > <wolf@c...> wrote:
                                                    > > > > ok, my bad. relative to an external observer,
                                                    > > the light coming from
                                                    > > > the
                                                    > > > > flashlight, and the flashlight itself, are
                                                    > > travelling at the same
                                                    > > > speed, so
                                                    > > > > the light could be described as "stuck" (from
                                                    > > that frame). time
                                                    > > > dilation
                                                    > > > > between the "rest" frame and the "moving" frame
                                                    > > makes just about
                                                    > > > > *everything* in it seem "stuck", though. to the
                                                    > > flashlight driver,
                                                    > > > though,
                                                    > > > > of course the light is headed out at exactly c.
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > i was trying to address the misconception that,
                                                    > > to an external
                                                    > > > observer, the
                                                    > > > > high-speed flashlight gets its velocity "added"
                                                    > > to the light beam
                                                    > > > leaving
                                                    > > > > it. perhaps i should have just put the note at
                                                    > > the bottom of my
                                                    > > > message at
                                                    > > > > the top, and left off my personal
                                                    > > interpretation...
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
                                                    > > > > From: "David Paterson" <david.paterson@b...>
                                                    > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 4:09 PM
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > >
                                                    > > > > > The weird thing about relativity is that this
                                                    > > isn't what happens -
                                                    > > > the
                                                    > > > > > light doesn't get "stuck".
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                                    > > > ---------------------~-->
                                                    > > > 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/Ey.GAA/1EGslB/TM
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > --------------------------------------------------------------
                                                    > > > -------~->
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                    > > > Electronics_101-unsubscribe@y...
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                                    > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                                                    > > >
                                                    > > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
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