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Novice Capacitor Question

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  • boozerocket
    Hello! I m new to the group and I have a simple question I was hoping someone could help me with. I m replacing the capacitors in an old preamplifier, assuming
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 27, 2002
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      Hello!
      I'm new to the group and I have a simple question I was hoping
      someone could help me with. I'm replacing the capacitors in an old
      preamplifier, assuming the farad value is the same, can I use a cap'
      with a higher voltage rating or will this effect the audio signal? I
      realize capacitor composition will effect audio quality, but I can't
      find any info' concerning voltage rating vs. sound quality. Any
      information will be appreciated! Thanks!
    • Shawn W. McClintock
      The voltage rating shouldn t make any difference at all. Just be sure to use the same or higher voltage rating as what is already in the circuit, otherwise you
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 27, 2002
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        The voltage rating shouldn't make any difference at all. Just be sure to use
        the same or higher voltage rating as what is already in the circuit,
        otherwise you will have problems, but bad sound would be the least of them..
        ie: caps dont like to work at voltages higher than what they are rated at..
        below is OK..



        -----Original Message-----
        From: boozerocket [mailto:hardmanaz@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 7:58 PM
        To: Electronics_101@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Electronics_101] Novice Capacitor Question


        Hello!
        I'm new to the group and I have a simple question I was hoping
        someone could help me with. I'm replacing the capacitors in an old
        preamplifier, assuming the farad value is the same, can I use a cap'
        with a higher voltage rating or will this effect the audio signal? I
        realize capacitor composition will effect audio quality, but I can't
        find any info' concerning voltage rating vs. sound quality. Any
        information will be appreciated! Thanks!



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      • rgraf.geo
        ... cap ... I ... can t ... The voltage rating for capacitors is generally determined by the dielectric rating of the insulator that separates the 2 plates of
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 27, 2002
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          --- In Electronics_101@y..., "boozerocket" <hardmanaz@h...> wrote:
          > Hello!
          > I'm new to the group and I have a simple question I was hoping
          > someone could help me with. I'm replacing the capacitors in an old
          > preamplifier, assuming the farad value is the same, can I use a
          cap'
          > with a higher voltage rating or will this effect the audio signal?
          I
          > realize capacitor composition will effect audio quality, but I
          can't
          > find any info' concerning voltage rating vs. sound quality. Any
          > information will be appreciated! Thanks!

          The voltage rating for capacitors is generally determined by the
          dielectric rating of the insulator that separates the 2 plates of the
          capacitor. For electrolytic capacitors, this is determined by the
          applied voltage also as this bias voltage actually forms the
          dielectric insulator. This dielectric is approximately one molecule
          thick as the dielectric solution forms an aluminum oxide layer that
          does not conduct. This is why electrolytic caps fail eventually, they
          dry up and short as the electrolyte solution is an aluminum oxide
          salt. Because of this bias voltage forming the actual dielectric
          insulator, electrolytic caps have Working Voltage Direct Current
          rating (WVDC). The tolerance of most electrolytic caps is +20/-80%
          because of this. That is the reason that electrolytic caps come in so
          many different voltage ratings, one for each popular supply voltage
          value. Note the minus figure is eighty percent. The molecule thick
          insulator is the reason electrolytic caps are so small per unit of
          capacitance. So for bypass and coupling elexctrolytics, keep to the
          nearest greater voltage rating for cap or you will suffer bandwidth
          problems, especially in crossovers and filters.

          Preferred capacitor types for audio are polypropylene, polystyrene
          and polycarbonate. Polyester and mylar are also acceptable,
          Sprague "Orange Drops" being a decent type. Generally, ceramics are
          frowned upon and aluminum electrolytics are bypassed with a high
          quality poly cap of small value to counter the inductive component.
          Upgrading the electrical/electronic components in this manner is
          referred to as a "pooge" which stands for "parts optimization of
          general electronics and is discussed in such publications as the
          Audio Amateur and Glass Audio (for tube enthusiasts.) To these
          people, saying "any old capacitor will do" is high treason.

          If you are going to tinker with audio circuits, try a simple tube
          preamp, they're relatively simple and the tube is much more linear
          than the transistor. The difference in guitar amps in astounding. And
          probably half of the audio equipment that costs more than $1000 (not
          talking about the mass produced "stuff" by Yamaha, Sony, etc.) is
          tube.
        • boozerocket
          Thanks for the information everyone! Regarding tube equipment, that s exactly what I m working with (a Dynaco PAS-2). It s my first piece of tube equipment. I
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 28, 2002
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            Thanks for the information everyone! Regarding tube equipment, that's
            exactly what I'm working with (a Dynaco PAS-2). It's my first piece
            of tube equipment. I couldn't believe how good this 30+ year old
            preamp sounded. My old Adcom cost three times as much and the Dynaco
            blew it away. I'm hooked! Thanks again!

            --- In Electronics_101@y..., "rgraf.geo" <rgraf@m...> wrote:
            > --- In Electronics_101@y..., "boozerocket" <hardmanaz@h...> wrote:
            > > Hello!
            > > I'm new to the group and I have a simple question I was hoping
            > > someone could help me with. I'm replacing the capacitors in an
            old
            > > preamplifier, assuming the farad value is the same, can I use a
            > cap'
            > > with a higher voltage rating or will this effect the audio
            signal?
            > I
            > > realize capacitor composition will effect audio quality, but I
            > can't
            > > find any info' concerning voltage rating vs. sound quality. Any
            > > information will be appreciated! Thanks!
            >
            > The voltage rating for capacitors is generally determined by the
            > dielectric rating of the insulator that separates the 2 plates of
            the
            > capacitor. For electrolytic capacitors, this is determined by the
            > applied voltage also as this bias voltage actually forms the
            > dielectric insulator. This dielectric is approximately one molecule
            > thick as the dielectric solution forms an aluminum oxide layer that
            > does not conduct. This is why electrolytic caps fail eventually,
            they
            > dry up and short as the electrolyte solution is an aluminum oxide
            > salt. Because of this bias voltage forming the actual dielectric
            > insulator, electrolytic caps have Working Voltage Direct Current
            > rating (WVDC). The tolerance of most electrolytic caps is +20/-80%
            > because of this. That is the reason that electrolytic caps come in
            so
            > many different voltage ratings, one for each popular supply voltage
            > value. Note the minus figure is eighty percent. The molecule thick
            > insulator is the reason electrolytic caps are so small per unit of
            > capacitance. So for bypass and coupling elexctrolytics, keep to the
            > nearest greater voltage rating for cap or you will suffer bandwidth
            > problems, especially in crossovers and filters.
            >
            > Preferred capacitor types for audio are polypropylene, polystyrene
            > and polycarbonate. Polyester and mylar are also acceptable,
            > Sprague "Orange Drops" being a decent type. Generally, ceramics are
            > frowned upon and aluminum electrolytics are bypassed with a high
            > quality poly cap of small value to counter the inductive component.
            > Upgrading the electrical/electronic components in this manner is
            > referred to as a "pooge" which stands for "parts optimization of
            > general electronics and is discussed in such publications as the
            > Audio Amateur and Glass Audio (for tube enthusiasts.) To these
            > people, saying "any old capacitor will do" is high treason.
            >
            > If you are going to tinker with audio circuits, try a simple tube
            > preamp, they're relatively simple and the tube is much more linear
            > than the transistor. The difference in guitar amps in astounding.
            And
            > probably half of the audio equipment that costs more than $1000
            (not
            > talking about the mass produced "stuff" by Yamaha, Sony, etc.) is
            > tube.
          • rgraf.geo
            ... that s ... Dynaco ... The Dynaco PAS was one of the models that received quite a bit of interest from Audio Amateur magazine. The PAS-2 might have
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 28, 2002
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              --- In Electronics_101@y..., "boozerocket" <hardmanaz@h...> wrote:
              > Thanks for the information everyone! Regarding tube equipment,
              that's
              > exactly what I'm working with (a Dynaco PAS-2). It's my first piece
              > of tube equipment. I couldn't believe how good this 30+ year old
              > preamp sounded. My old Adcom cost three times as much and the
              Dynaco
              > blew it away. I'm hooked! Thanks again!
              >

              The Dynaco PAS was one of the models that received quite a bit of
              interest from Audio Amateur magazine. The PAS-2 might have
              incorporated some of these mods. There are some back issues of Audio
              Amateur and Glass Audio at http://www.audioxpress.com/ which is the
              site of the publisher of those mags. I've got all th old AA's which
              I'll grab the next time I revisit my old stomping ground if you're
              interested. Dynaco still exists in name, and even sells a couple of
              tubes and replacement woofers for the A-25 speakers, but nothing else
              of old. David Hafler has long since departed to forn Hafler, which
              has benn purchased by Rockford Audio. If you're looking for parts,
              try Triode Electronics at
              http://store.yahoo.com/triodeel/dynacoupgrades.html where you'll find
              their Dynaco upgrade page.
            • purohit ranga
              Hi group, i am working with pic controller with mplab using hitech C compiler . but i am facing problems when i build it. i get 123.hex file not found due to
              Message 6 of 13 , Mar 1, 2002
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                Hi group,
                i am working with pic controller with mplab using
                hitech C compiler . but i am facing problems when i
                build it. i get 123.hex file not found due to assemle,
                compile or link error . build failed. what might be
                the problem.
                some times i get the error language suite not
                installed properly.
                please do help me out.
                waiting for ur replies.
                sreeranga

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              • manifold_1
                Hi!, First things first. When you post a message that is a _new_ topic or thread, change the subject line. That way people who are ignoring the old thread
                Message 7 of 13 , Mar 1, 2002
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                  Hi!,

                  First things first. When you post a message that is a _new_ topic or
                  thread, change the subject line. That way people who are ignoring
                  the old thread may choose to read yours. Your PIC question is posted
                  with the same subject line as a previous thread "Novice Capacitor
                  Question"

                  Second, though there are lots of us here who use microcontrollers,
                  this group seems pretty well fixed in hardware design at the gate and
                  transistor level. Your questions is pretty specific to the IDE
                  configuration that you have which reduces the number of people on
                  this list that help. The PIClist may give you better results if you
                  do not get an answer here first.

                  And finally to your questions! I have not used a third party tool
                  like the Hightech C compiler with MPLAB. My experience with MPLAB is
                  at the assembly level.

                  o Is the name of your program 123.c?
                  o Can you run the compiler successfully from the command line without
                  MPLAB?
                  o Will MPLAB assemble a *.asm file successfully?

                  The language suite error could be an indication that the C compiler
                  is not fully hooked into MPLAB. It is probably some small mistake
                  in configuration. MPLAB is pretty easy to set up.

                  Try here:
                  www.piclist.org
                  Also try contacting Hightech they seem like good people and may have
                  good support for their products. For the money they charge they
                  should be giving you lots of support!

                  - good luck


                  --- In Electronics_101@y..., purohit ranga <sreerangap@y...> wrote:
                  > Hi group,
                  > i am working with pic controller with mplab using
                  > hitech C compiler . but i am facing problems when i
                  > build it. i get 123.hex file not found due to assemle,
                  > compile or link error . build failed. what might be
                  > the problem.
                  > some times i get the error language suite not
                  > installed properly.
                  > please do help me out.
                  > waiting for ur replies.
                  > sreeranga
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
                  > http://greetings.yahoo.com
                • purohit ranga
                  Hi Group, I am able to compile my 123.c in MPLAB using MPLAB assemler, but the problem arises when i compile using Hi-Tech C as the Compiler. As soon as I
                  Message 8 of 13 , Mar 8, 2002
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                    Hi Group,

                    I am able to compile my 123.c in MPLAB using MPLAB
                    assemler, but the problem arises when i compile
                    using Hi-Tech C as the Compiler. As soon as I Build
                    the Project I get the Message
                    " Selected Build Tool not installed Properly ".

                    But When I Build A Single NODE I get the Message
                    "Building 123.OBJ...

                    Compiling 123.C:
                    Command line: "C:\HT-PIC\BIN\PICC.EXE -E -16F873 -C
                    C:\123.C"
                    Enter PICC -HELP for help

                    MPLAB is unable to find output file "123.OBJ". This
                    may be due to a compile, assemble, or link process
                    failure.

                    Build failed.
                    "
                    I am able to Compile my Program using the HPDPIC.Exe
                    (Hi-Tech C Compiler for PIC ).

                    Please do help me out.
                    Waiting for your Reply.
                    Sreeranga.

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                  • manifold_1
                    Try the Piclist at www.piclist.org or try the support staff at Hi- Tech. You paid enough for the program so they should be able to help with support. It does
                    Message 9 of 13 , Mar 9, 2002
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                      Try the Piclist at www.piclist.org or try the support staff at Hi-
                      Tech. You paid enough for the program so they should be able to help
                      with support. It does sound like the error message is correct and
                      the compiler and MPLAB are not configured properly.

                      --- In Electronics_101@y..., purohit ranga <sreerangap@y...> wrote:
                      > Hi Group,
                      >
                      > I am able to compile my 123.c in MPLAB using MPLAB
                      > assemler, but the problem arises when i compile
                      > using Hi-Tech C as the Compiler. As soon as I Build
                      > the Project I get the Message
                      > " Selected Build Tool not installed Properly ".
                      >
                      > But When I Build A Single NODE I get the Message
                      > "Building 123.OBJ...
                      >
                      > Compiling 123.C:
                      > Command line: "C:\HT-PIC\BIN\PICC.EXE -E -16F873 -C
                      > C:\123.C"
                      > Enter PICC -HELP for help
                      >
                      > MPLAB is unable to find output file "123.OBJ". This
                      > may be due to a compile, assemble, or link process
                      > failure.
                      >
                      > Build failed.
                      > "
                      > I am able to Compile my Program using the HPDPIC.Exe
                      > (Hi-Tech C Compiler for PIC ).
                      >
                      > Please do help me out.
                      > Waiting for your Reply.
                      > Sreeranga.
                      >
                      > __________________________________________________
                      > Do You Yahoo!?
                      > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
                      > http://mail.yahoo.com/
                    • purohit ranga
                      Hi, Can you suggest me how to configure (the usual way) to confugure Hi-tech C and MPLAB waiting for your reply sreeranga ...
                      Message 10 of 13 , Mar 11, 2002
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                        Hi,
                        Can you suggest me how to configure (the usual way)
                        to confugure Hi-tech C and MPLAB
                        waiting for your reply
                        sreeranga
                        --- manifold_1 <manifold_1@...> wrote:
                        > Try the Piclist at www.piclist.org or try the
                        > support staff at Hi-
                        > Tech. You paid enough for the program so they
                        > should be able to help
                        > with support. It does sound like the error message
                        > is correct and
                        > the compiler and MPLAB are not configured properly.
                        >
                        > --- In Electronics_101@y..., purohit ranga
                        > <sreerangap@y...> wrote:
                        > > Hi Group,
                        > >
                        > > I am able to compile my 123.c in MPLAB using
                        > MPLAB
                        > > assemler, but the problem arises when i compile
                        > > using Hi-Tech C as the Compiler. As soon as I
                        > Build
                        > > the Project I get the Message
                        > > " Selected Build Tool not installed Properly ".
                        > >
                        > > But When I Build A Single NODE I get the Message
                        > > "Building 123.OBJ...
                        > >
                        > > Compiling 123.C:
                        > > Command line: "C:\HT-PIC\BIN\PICC.EXE -E -16F873
                        > -C
                        > > C:\123.C"
                        > > Enter PICC -HELP for help
                        > >
                        > > MPLAB is unable to find output file "123.OBJ".
                        > This
                        > > may be due to a compile, assemble, or link process
                        > > failure.
                        > >
                        > > Build failed.
                        > > "
                        > > I am able to Compile my Program using the
                        > HPDPIC.Exe
                        > > (Hi-Tech C Compiler for PIC ).
                        > >
                        > > Please do help me out.
                        > > Waiting for your Reply.
                        > > Sreeranga.
                        > >
                        > > __________________________________________________
                        > > Do You Yahoo!?
                        > > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
                        > email!
                        > > http://mail.yahoo.com/
                        >
                        >


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                      • Antonio Santana
                        All, Good morning, I am looking for, either the instruction manual or some explanation of the software PCI.EXE ver 2.7 By PCD engineering for Intel. I ve been
                        Message 11 of 13 , Mar 11, 2002
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                          All,

                          Good morning, I am looking for, either the instruction
                          manual or some explanation of the software PCI.EXE ver
                          2.7
                          By PCD engineering for Intel.

                          I've been to their websites, but have found nothing
                          concrete.

                          I need explanations on the following:

                          When reading pci registers for bus, device, function
                          for a specific board, What am I reading? The registers
                          and address allocation of the board itself?

                          What does it mean when and register is highlighted in
                          pink FF, is it bad?

                          If I had the manual or instruction for the software, I
                          could answer these questions.

                          Thank you all in advance

                          T.



                          =====
                          Antonio L. Santana
                          Test and Development/Test Engineering
                          Test Technologies Inc.
                          Marlton, New Jersy
                          Tel 856-596-0900
                          fax 856-895-1641

                          __________________________________________________
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                        • manifold_1
                          I have not used the Hi-Tech C compiler. Try calling or emailing Hi- Tech or the PIC list.
                          Message 12 of 13 , Mar 11, 2002
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                            I have not used the Hi-Tech C compiler. Try calling or emailing Hi-
                            Tech or the PIC list.

                            --- In Electronics_101@y..., purohit ranga <sreerangap@y...> wrote:
                            > Hi,
                            > Can you suggest me how to configure (the usual way)
                            > to confugure Hi-tech C and MPLAB
                            > waiting for your reply
                            > sreeranga
                            > --- manifold_1 <manifold_1@y...> wrote:
                            > > Try the Piclist at www.piclist.org or try the
                            > > support staff at Hi-
                            > > Tech. You paid enough for the program so they
                            > > should be able to help
                            > > with support. It does sound like the error message
                            > > is correct and
                            > > the compiler and MPLAB are not configured properly.
                            > >
                            > > --- In Electronics_101@y..., purohit ranga
                            > > <sreerangap@y...> wrote:
                            > > > Hi Group,
                            > > >
                            > > > I am able to compile my 123.c in MPLAB using
                            > > MPLAB
                            > > > assemler, but the problem arises when i compile
                            > > > using Hi-Tech C as the Compiler. As soon as I
                            > > Build
                            > > > the Project I get the Message
                            > > > " Selected Build Tool not installed Properly ".
                            > > >
                            > > > But When I Build A Single NODE I get the Message
                            > > > "Building 123.OBJ...
                            > > >
                            > > > Compiling 123.C:
                            > > > Command line: "C:\HT-PIC\BIN\PICC.EXE -E -16F873
                            > > -C
                            > > > C:\123.C"
                            > > > Enter PICC -HELP for help
                            > > >
                            > > > MPLAB is unable to find output file "123.OBJ".
                            > > This
                            > > > may be due to a compile, assemble, or link process
                            > > > failure.
                            > > >
                            > > > Build failed.
                            > > > "
                            > > > I am able to Compile my Program using the
                            > > HPDPIC.Exe
                            > > > (Hi-Tech C Compiler for PIC ).
                            > > >
                            > > > Please do help me out.
                            > > > Waiting for your Reply.
                            > > > Sreeranga.
                            > > >
                            > > > __________________________________________________
                            > > > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > > > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free
                            > > email!
                            > > > http://mail.yahoo.com/
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
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                            > Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
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                          • Dangermouse
                            In GENERAL, you can substitute a higher voltage cap for one of lower voltage, BUT electrolytic capacitors tend to become leaky over time if used at less than
                            Message 13 of 13 , Feb 27, 2021
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                              In GENERAL, you can substitute a higher voltage cap for one of lower voltage, BUT electrolytic capacitors tend to become leaky over time if used at less than half their rated voltage.
                               
                              In an audio preamp, try to use polypropylene capacitors whenever possible.  Avoid aluminum electrolytics in the signal path unless they are of high quality.  A Digi-Key catalog is invaluable when looking for good capacitors.  :o)
                               
                              -DM
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 8:58 PM
                              Subject: [Electronics_101] Novice Capacitor Question

                              Hello!
                              I'm new to the group and I have a simple question I was hoping
                              someone could help me with. I'm replacing the capacitors in an old
                              preamplifier, assuming the farad value is the same, can I use a cap'
                              with a higher voltage rating or will this effect the audio signal? I
                              realize capacitor composition will effect audio quality, but I can't
                              find any info' concerning voltage rating vs. sound quality. Any
                              information will be appreciated! Thanks!



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