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Double-decker trains for Metro-North?

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  • Edward.J.Tracey@valley.net
    I remember these trains (with the Dashing Dan logo on them) when my father rode them in the 1960 s - had a chance to take one in Illinois in the mid-90 s,
    Message 1 of 7 , Aug 17, 2010
      I remember these trains (with the "Dashing Dan" logo on them) when my father
      rode them in the 1960's - had a chance to take one in Illinois in the mid-90's,
      before they were brought back into service.


      Metro-North Is Considering Double-Decker Trains
      By MICHAEL M. GRYNBAUM, NY Times

      Some commuters who take the railroad to Manhattan may soon enjoy an amenity
      more common to Paris than Ossining: the double-decker ride.

      The Metro-North Railroad is seriously considering buying double-decker coaches
      for its Harlem and Hudson lines, in a move to ease overcrowding on a rail
      network that routinely runs standing-room-only trains during rush hour.

      Two-level trains cost the same as their single-story counterparts, and can
      carry a third more passengers. And railroad officials insist that size would
      not be a problem: the taller trains could be designed to fit the narrow
      clearance of the tunnel to Grand Central Terminal. Metro-Northis next major
      purchase of new cars, including possibly the double-deckers, is scheduled for
      2015.

      If approved, the double-deckers could redefine the travel experience of
      thousands of commuters who depend on the railroad each day. Upper-floor seats
      would command sweeping views of the Hudson River and, when the trains run above
      ground in Manhattan, glimpses of Central Park.

      One drawback: Some overhead luggage racks could be removed to make room. And
      the scramble for a prime seat above might inject another element of neighborly
      competition into Westchester Countyis status-conscious suburbs.

      But a fleet of rolling duplexes would bring the railroad in line with its
      nearby cousins. Double-decker trains, then called iup and downs,i were
      commonplace on the Long Island Rail Road from the late 1930s to the late 1960s;
      a more modern version began operation in 1998. New Jersey Transit has run
      double-deckers since 2005.

      Officials at both commuter railroads say the bilevel trains receive rave
      reviews from customers, particularly because their interior layouts eliminate
      the hated middle seat. iCustomers love them for a number of reasons,i said Dan
      Stessel, a spokesman for New Jersey Transit. iThey are quieter, and you have
      more leg room. Itis been overwhelmingly positive.i

      Howard Permut, the president of Metro-North, said he was attracted to the
      double-decker option because it could help solve a broader challenge facing
      Metro-North: its ballooning ridership, which has risen 10 percent in the last
      five years.

      The railroad is nearing capacity at Grand Central Terminal, its Midtown hub,
      and at rush hour it currently runs trains in and out of the Park Avenue tunnel
      at the fastest rate it can. Trains with greater seating capacity would allow
      the railroad to serve more passengers without creating more congestion at the
      terminal, Mr. Permut said.

      While multilevel trains are typically taller than regular trains, officials in
      the region have found ways to deal with the narrow clearance of underwater and
      underground tunnels that provide access into Manhattan. At New Jersey Transit,
      the bilevel cars feature a sharply beveled roof, which curves at a roughly
      45-degree angle to ensure the trains do not scrape against walls. Metro-North
      engineers believe their trains would require an even steeper bevel to avoid the
      walls of the Park Avenue tunnel. And low-hanging wires and underground
      protrusions might have to be trimmed back.

      But the biggest potential deal breaker for the double-deckers, officials said,
      is how they would work with the crisscrossing rails beneath Grand Central.
      Unlike most train cars currently used by the railroad, bilevel coaches cannot
      run by themselves; they have no motors and must be propelled by a locomotive.
      But Grand Centralis tracks have hundreds of gaps where the electrified third
      rail abruptly ends, which could cause the locomotive to stall. A solution would
      be to use two locomotives, one on either end, to ensure the train never loses
      contact with the third rail, but that approach would be expensive.

      Another alternative, to use a locomotive that runs on both diesel and electric
      power, could result in slower trips, because those engines do not accelerate as
      fast their electric-only cousins. iThere are many considerations,i said
      Marjorie Anders, a spokeswoman for Metro-North.

      If the railroad decides to purchase the bilevel trains, they would not serve
      the New Haven line, which is receiving its own new single-level fleet of trains
      starting this fall. This month, Connecticut transit officials said they had
      decided not to buy custom-designed bar cars. Instead, the officials pledged to
      eventually retrofit seven of the 80 new cars into bar cars. The timing was
      still unclear; Judd Everhart, a spokesman for the Connecticut Department of
      Transportation, would say only that it would occur iat some point.i The
      converted bar cars would not be ready until 2012 at the earliest, Mr. Everhart
      said. But in an e-mail message, he said that ibar cars are very popular with
      many customers and in the interest of their satisfaction, we would like to keep
      this tradition alive.i
    • Burke Thomas
      Yes, these trains are cool and do not have the dreaded middle seat.  Metro North needs to do something to increase capacity and this seems like a reasonable
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 17, 2010
        Yes, these trains are cool and do not have the dreaded middle seat.  Metro North needs to do something to increase capacity and this seems like a reasonable plan.  However, as the article states, the low clearances in the tunnel may make this difficult.
         
        In addition to the LIRR Port Jeff branch which I believe has one or two double deck trains which are diesel/electric and can provide a "one seat ride" from Smithtown/Kings Park, etc.  to Penn Station (LI'ers correct me if this is no longer true),  I rode on a similar double decker train from Chicago Downtown out to Hyde Park to visit the Museum of Science and a MBTA double train from Boston-North to Salem.

        Tom Burke
        People for Parks

        --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Edward.J.Tracey@... <Edward.J.Tracey@...> wrote:


        From: Edward.J.Tracey@... <Edward.J.Tracey@...>
        Subject: [EddieEvents] Double-decker trains for Metro-North?
        To: EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:02 PM


         



        I remember these trains (with the "Dashing Dan" logo on them) when my father
        rode them in the 1960's - had a chance to take one in Illinois in the mid-90's,
        before they were brought back into service.

        Metro-North Is Considering Double-Decker Trains
        By MICHAEL M. GRYNBAUM, NY Times

        Some commuters who take the railroad to Manhattan may soon enjoy an amenity
        more common to Paris than Ossining: the double-decker ride.

        The Metro-North Railroad is seriously considering buying double-decker coaches
        for its Harlem and Hudson lines, in a move to ease overcrowding on a rail
        network that routinely runs standing-room-only trains during rush hour.

        Two-level trains cost the same as their single-story counterparts, and can
        carry a third more passengers. And railroad officials insist that size would
        not be a problem: the taller trains could be designed to fit the narrow
        clearance of the tunnel to Grand Central Terminal. Metro-Northis next major
        purchase of new cars, including possibly the double-deckers, is scheduled for
        2015.

        If approved, the double-deckers could redefine the travel experience of
        thousands of commuters who depend on the railroad each day. Upper-floor seats
        would command sweeping views of the Hudson River and, when the trains run above
        ground in Manhattan, glimpses of Central Park.

        One drawback: Some overhead luggage racks could be removed to make room. And
        the scramble for a prime seat above might inject another element of neighborly
        competition into Westchester Countyis status-conscious suburbs.

        But a fleet of rolling duplexes would bring the railroad in line with its
        nearby cousins. Double-decker trains, then called iup and downs,i were
        commonplace on the Long Island Rail Road from the late 1930s to the late 1960s;
        a more modern version began operation in 1998. New Jersey Transit has run
        double-deckers since 2005.

        Officials at both commuter railroads say the bilevel trains receive rave
        reviews from customers, particularly because their interior layouts eliminate
        the hated middle seat. iCustomers love them for a number of reasons,i said Dan
        Stessel, a spokesman for New Jersey Transit. iThey are quieter, and you have
        more leg room. Itis been overwhelmingly positive.i

        Howard Permut, the president of Metro-North, said he was attracted to the
        double-decker option because it could help solve a broader challenge facing
        Metro-North: its ballooning ridership, which has risen 10 percent in the last
        five years.

        The railroad is nearing capacity at Grand Central Terminal, its Midtown hub,
        and at rush hour it currently runs trains in and out of the Park Avenue tunnel
        at the fastest rate it can. Trains with greater seating capacity would allow
        the railroad to serve more passengers without creating more congestion at the
        terminal, Mr. Permut said.

        While multilevel trains are typically taller than regular trains, officials in
        the region have found ways to deal with the narrow clearance of underwater and
        underground tunnels that provide access into Manhattan. At New Jersey Transit,
        the bilevel cars feature a sharply beveled roof, which curves at a roughly
        45-degree angle to ensure the trains do not scrape against walls. Metro-North
        engineers believe their trains would require an even steeper bevel to avoid the
        walls of the Park Avenue tunnel. And low-hanging wires and underground
        protrusions might have to be trimmed back.

        But the biggest potential deal breaker for the double-deckers, officials said,
        is how they would work with the crisscrossing rails beneath Grand Central.
        Unlike most train cars currently used by the railroad, bilevel coaches cannot
        run by themselves; they have no motors and must be propelled by a locomotive.
        But Grand Centralis tracks have hundreds of gaps where the electrified third
        rail abruptly ends, which could cause the locomotive to stall. A solution would
        be to use two locomotives, one on either end, to ensure the train never loses
        contact with the third rail, but that approach would be expensive.

        Another alternative, to use a locomotive that runs on both diesel and electric
        power, could result in slower trips, because those engines do not accelerate as
        fast their electric-only cousins. iThere are many considerations,i said
        Marjorie Anders, a spokeswoman for Metro-North.

        If the railroad decides to purchase the bilevel trains, they would not serve
        the New Haven line, which is receiving its own new single-level fleet of trains
        starting this fall. This month, Connecticut transit officials said they had
        decided not to buy custom-designed bar cars. Instead, the officials pledged to
        eventually retrofit seven of the 80 new cars into bar cars. The timing was
        still unclear; Judd Everhart, a spokesman for the Connecticut Department of
        Transportation, would say only that it would occur iat some point.i The
        converted bar cars would not be ready until 2012 at the earliest, Mr. Everhart
        said. But in an e-mail message, he said that ibar cars are very popular with
        many customers and in the interest of their satisfaction, we would like to keep
        this tradition alive.i










        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Jeannemarie Tracey
        I can confirm the NJ Transit double-deckers.  Just got off of one 15 min ago!  And yes, those middle seats should be a thing of the past if they want
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 17, 2010
          I can confirm the NJ Transit double-deckers.  Just got off of one 15 min ago!  And yes, those middle seats should be a thing of the past if they want to make riders happy!

          JT



          -- Sent from my Palm Pre
          On Aug 17, 2010 3:40 PM, Burke Thomas <tjburke12206@...> wrote:


           










          Yes, these trains are cool and do not have the dreaded middle seat.  Metro North needs to do something to increase capacity and this seems like a reasonable plan.  However, as the article states, the low clearances in the tunnel may make this difficult.

           

          In addition to the LIRR Port Jeff branch which I believe has one or two double deck trains which are diesel/electric and can provide a "one seat ride" from Smithtown/Kings Park, etc.  to Penn Station (LI'ers correct me if this is no longer true),  I rode on a similar double decker train from Chicago Downtown out to Hyde Park to visit the Museum of Science and a MBTA double train from Boston-North to Salem.



          Tom Burke

          People for Parks



          --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Edward.J.Tracey@... <Edward.J.Tracey@...> wrote:



          From: Edward.J.Tracey@... <Edward.J.Tracey@...>

          Subject: [EddieEvents] Double-decker trains for Metro-North?

          To: EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com

          Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:02 PM



           



          I remember these trains (with the "Dashing Dan" logo on them) when my father

          rode them in the 1960's - had a chance to take one in Illinois in the mid-90's,

          before they were brought back into service.



          Metro-North Is Considering Double-Decker Trains

          By MICHAEL M. GRYNBAUM, NY Times



          Some commuters who take the railroad to Manhattan may soon enjoy an amenity

          more common to Paris than Ossining: the double-decker ride.



          The Metro-North Railroad is seriously considering buying double-decker coaches

          for its Harlem and Hudson lines, in a move to ease overcrowding on a rail

          network that routinely runs standing-room-only trains during rush hour.



          Two-level trains cost the same as their single-story counterparts, and can

          carry a third more passengers. And railroad officials insist that size would

          not be a problem: the taller trains could be designed to fit the narrow

          clearance of the tunnel to Grand Central Terminal. Metro-Northis next major

          purchase of new cars, including possibly the double-deckers, is scheduled for

          2015.



          If approved, the double-deckers could redefine the travel experience of

          thousands of commuters who depend on the railroad each day. Upper-floor seats

          would command sweeping views of the Hudson River and, when the trains run above

          ground in Manhattan, glimpses of Central Park.



          One drawback: Some overhead luggage racks could be removed to make room. And

          the scramble for a prime seat above might inject another element of neighborly

          competition into Westchester Countyis status-conscious suburbs.



          But a fleet of rolling duplexes would bring the railroad in line with its

          nearby cousins. Double-decker trains, then called iup and downs,i were

          commonplace on the Long Island Rail Road from the late 1930s to the late 1960s;

          a more modern version began operation in 1998. New Jersey Transit has run

          double-deckers since 2005.



          Officials at both commuter railroads say the bilevel trains receive rave

          reviews from customers, particularly because their interior layouts eliminate

          the hated middle seat. iCustomers love them for a number of reasons,i said Dan

          Stessel, a spokesman for New Jersey Transit. iThey are quieter, and you have

          more leg room. Itis been overwhelmingly positive.i



          Howard Permut, the president of Metro-North, said he was attracted to the

          double-decker option because it could help solve a broader challenge facing

          Metro-North: its ballooning ridership, which has risen 10 percent in the last

          five years.



          The railroad is nearing capacity at Grand Central Terminal, its Midtown hub,

          and at rush hour it currently runs trains in and out of the Park Avenue tunnel

          at the fastest rate it can. Trains with greater seating capacity would allow

          the railroad to serve more passengers without creating more congestion at the

          terminal, Mr. Permut said.



          While multilevel trains are typically taller than regular trains, officials in

          the region have found ways to deal with the narrow clearance of underwater and

          underground tunnels that provide access into Manhattan. At New Jersey Transit,

          the bilevel cars feature a sharply beveled roof, which curves at a roughly

          45-degree angle to ensure the trains do not scrape against walls. Metro-North

          engineers believe their trains would require an even steeper bevel to avoid the

          walls of the Park Avenue tunnel. And low-hanging wires and underground

          protrusions might have to be trimmed back.



          But the biggest potential deal breaker for the double-deckers, officials said,

          is how they would work with the crisscrossing rails beneath Grand Central.

          Unlike most train cars currently used by the railroad, bilevel coaches cannot

          run by themselves; they have no motors and must be propelled by a locomotive.

          But Grand Centralis tracks have hundreds of gaps where the electrified third

          rail abruptly ends, which could cause the locomotive to stall. A solution would

          be to use two locomotives, one on either end, to ensure the train never loses

          contact with the third rail, but that approach would be expensive.



          Another alternative, to use a locomotive that runs on both diesel and electric

          power, could result in slower trips, because those engines do not accelerate as

          fast their electric-only cousins. iThere are many considerations,i said

          Marjorie Anders, a spokeswoman for Metro-North.



          If the railroad decides to purchase the bilevel trains, they would not serve

          the New Haven line, which is receiving its own new single-level fleet of trains

          starting this fall. This month, Connecticut transit officials said they had

          decided not to buy custom-designed bar cars. Instead, the officials pledged to

          eventually retrofit seven of the 80 new cars into bar cars. The timing was

          still unclear; Judd Everhart, a spokesman for the Connecticut Department of

          Transportation, would say only that it would occur iat some point.i The

          converted bar cars would not be ready until 2012 at the earliest, Mr. Everhart

          said. But in an e-mail message, he said that ibar cars are very popular with

          many customers and in the interest of their satisfaction, we would like to keep

          this tradition alive.i



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




























          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • PatrickT
          The middle seat is better - if no one sits in it. The train on LONG ISLAND (Double Decker) - the double seats are narrower and the leg room is so-so. You
          Message 4 of 7 , Aug 17, 2010
            The middle seat is better - if no one sits in it. The train on LONG ISLAND (Double Decker) - the double seats are narrower and the leg room is so-so. You can take a double decker from Montauk to Penn Station (but not to Brooklyn that I can tell) They serve LI City/Hunterspoint Avenue as well.

            I will ask my Daughter Megan to check this out too.........as she will once again have to buy a monthly pass as she GOT HER FIRST REAL JOB !!!!

            She starts Monday at Business Wire in NYC......a Warren Buffet company !


            Atsa My Girl !!!

            --- In EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com, "Jeannemarie Tracey" <JTTracey@...> wrote:
            >
            > I can confirm the NJ Transit double-deckers.  Just got off of one 15 min ago!  And yes, those middle seats should be a thing of the past if they want to make riders happy!
            >
            > JT
            >
            >
            >
            > -- Sent from my Palm Pre
            > On Aug 17, 2010 3:40 PM, Burke Thomas tjburke12206@... wrote:
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yes, these trains are cool and do not have the dreaded middle seat.  Metro North needs to do something to increase capacity and this seems like a reasonable plan.  However, as the article states, the low clearances in the tunnel may make this difficult.
            >
            >  
            >
            > In addition to the LIRR Port Jeff branch which I believe has one or two double deck trains which are diesel/electric and can provide a "one seat ride" from Smithtown/Kings Park, etc.  to Penn Station (LI'ers correct me if this is no longer true),  I rode on a similar double decker train from Chicago Downtown out to Hyde Park to visit the Museum of Science and a MBTA double train from Boston-North to Salem.
            >
            >
            >
            > Tom Burke
            >
            > People for Parks
            >
            >
            >
            > --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Edward.J.Tracey@... Edward.J.Tracey@... wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > From: Edward.J.Tracey@... Edward.J.Tracey@...
            >
            > Subject: [EddieEvents] Double-decker trains for Metro-North?
            >
            > To: EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:02 PM
            >
            >
            >
            >  
            >
            >
            >
            > I remember these trains (with the "Dashing Dan" logo on them) when my father
            >
            > rode them in the 1960's - had a chance to take one in Illinois in the mid-90's,
            >
            > before they were brought back into service.
            >
            >
            >
            > Metro-North Is Considering Double-Decker Trains
            >
            > By MICHAEL M. GRYNBAUM, NY Times
            >
            >
            >
            > Some commuters who take the railroad to Manhattan may soon enjoy an amenity
            >
            > more common to Paris than Ossining: the double-decker ride.
            >
            >
            >
            > The Metro-North Railroad is seriously considering buying double-decker coaches
            >
            > for its Harlem and Hudson lines, in a move to ease overcrowding on a rail
            >
            > network that routinely runs standing-room-only trains during rush hour.
            >
            >
            >
            > Two-level trains cost the same as their single-story counterparts, and can
            >
            > carry a third more passengers. And railroad officials insist that size would
            >
            > not be a problem: the taller trains could be designed to fit the narrow
            >
            > clearance of the tunnel to Grand Central Terminal. Metro-Northis next major
            >
            > purchase of new cars, including possibly the double-deckers, is scheduled for
            >
            > 2015.
            >
            >
            >
            > If approved, the double-deckers could redefine the travel experience of
            >
            > thousands of commuters who depend on the railroad each day. Upper-floor seats
            >
            > would command sweeping views of the Hudson River and, when the trains run above
            >
            > ground in Manhattan, glimpses of Central Park.
            >
            >
            >
            > One drawback: Some overhead luggage racks could be removed to make room. And
            >
            > the scramble for a prime seat above might inject another element of neighborly
            >
            > competition into Westchester Countyis status-conscious suburbs.
            >
            >
            >
            > But a fleet of rolling duplexes would bring the railroad in line with its
            >
            > nearby cousins. Double-decker trains, then called iup and downs,i were
            >
            > commonplace on the Long Island Rail Road from the late 1930s to the late 1960s;
            >
            > a more modern version began operation in 1998. New Jersey Transit has run
            >
            > double-deckers since 2005.
            >
            >
            >
            > Officials at both commuter railroads say the bilevel trains receive rave
            >
            > reviews from customers, particularly because their interior layouts eliminate
            >
            > the hated middle seat. iCustomers love them for a number of reasons,i said Dan
            >
            > Stessel, a spokesman for New Jersey Transit. iThey are quieter, and you have
            >
            > more leg room. Itis been overwhelmingly positive.i
            >
            >
            >
            > Howard Permut, the president of Metro-North, said he was attracted to the
            >
            > double-decker option because it could help solve a broader challenge facing
            >
            > Metro-North: its ballooning ridership, which has risen 10 percent in the last
            >
            > five years.
            >
            >
            >
            > The railroad is nearing capacity at Grand Central Terminal, its Midtown hub,
            >
            > and at rush hour it currently runs trains in and out of the Park Avenue tunnel
            >
            > at the fastest rate it can. Trains with greater seating capacity would allow
            >
            > the railroad to serve more passengers without creating more congestion at the
            >
            > terminal, Mr. Permut said.
            >
            >
            >
            > While multilevel trains are typically taller than regular trains, officials in
            >
            > the region have found ways to deal with the narrow clearance of underwater and
            >
            > underground tunnels that provide access into Manhattan. At New Jersey Transit,
            >
            > the bilevel cars feature a sharply beveled roof, which curves at a roughly
            >
            > 45-degree angle to ensure the trains do not scrape against walls. Metro-North
            >
            > engineers believe their trains would require an even steeper bevel to avoid the
            >
            > walls of the Park Avenue tunnel. And low-hanging wires and underground
            >
            > protrusions might have to be trimmed back.
            >
            >
            >
            > But the biggest potential deal breaker for the double-deckers, officials said,
            >
            > is how they would work with the crisscrossing rails beneath Grand Central.
            >
            > Unlike most train cars currently used by the railroad, bilevel coaches cannot
            >
            > run by themselves; they have no motors and must be propelled by a locomotive.
            >
            > But Grand Centralis tracks have hundreds of gaps where the electrified third
            >
            > rail abruptly ends, which could cause the locomotive to stall. A solution would
            >
            > be to use two locomotives, one on either end, to ensure the train never loses
            >
            > contact with the third rail, but that approach would be expensive.
            >
            >
            >
            > Another alternative, to use a locomotive that runs on both diesel and electric
            >
            > power, could result in slower trips, because those engines do not accelerate as
            >
            > fast their electric-only cousins. iThere are many considerations,i said
            >
            > Marjorie Anders, a spokeswoman for Metro-North.
            >
            >
            >
            > If the railroad decides to purchase the bilevel trains, they would not serve
            >
            > the New Haven line, which is receiving its own new single-level fleet of trains
            >
            > starting this fall. This month, Connecticut transit officials said they had
            >
            > decided not to buy custom-designed bar cars. Instead, the officials pledged to
            >
            > eventually retrofit seven of the 80 new cars into bar cars. The timing was
            >
            > still unclear; Judd Everhart, a spokesman for the Connecticut Department of
            >
            > Transportation, would say only that it would occur iat some point.i The
            >
            > converted bar cars would not be ready until 2012 at the earliest, Mr. Everhart
            >
            > said. But in an e-mail message, he said that ibar cars are very popular with
            >
            > many customers and in the interest of their satisfaction, we would like to keep
            >
            > this tradition alive.i
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Burke Thomas
            Glad to hear that she got her first real job...as Pat (quoting some 70 s band) used to say...welcome to the working week.... Tom Burke People for Parks ...
            Message 5 of 7 , Aug 18, 2010
              Glad to hear that she got her first "real" job...as Pat (quoting some 70's band) used to say...welcome to the working week....

              Tom Burke
              People for Parks

              --- On Tue, 8/17/10, PatrickT <reorgman@...> wrote:


              From: PatrickT <reorgman@...>
              Subject: [EddieEvents] Re: Double-decker trains for Metro-North?
              To: EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 8:33 PM


               



              The middle seat is better - if no one sits in it. The train on LONG ISLAND (Double Decker) - the double seats are narrower and the leg room is so-so. You can take a double decker from Montauk to Penn Station (but not to Brooklyn that I can tell) They serve LI City/Hunterspoint Avenue as well.

              I will ask my Daughter Megan to check this out too.........as she will once again have to buy a monthly pass as she GOT HER FIRST REAL JOB !!!!

              She starts Monday at Business Wire in NYC......a Warren Buffet company !

              Atsa My Girl !!!

              --- In EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com, "Jeannemarie Tracey" <JTTracey@...> wrote:
              >
              > I can confirm the NJ Transit double-deckers.  Just got off of one 15 min ago!  And yes, those middle seats should be a thing of the past if they want to make riders happy!
              >
              > JT
              >
              >
              >
              > -- Sent from my Palm Pre
              > On Aug 17, 2010 3:40 PM, Burke Thomas tjburke12206@... wrote:
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yes, these trains are cool and do not have the dreaded middle seat.  Metro North needs to do something to increase capacity and this seems like a reasonable plan.  However, as the article states, the low clearances in the tunnel may make this difficult.
              >
              >  
              >
              > In addition to the LIRR Port Jeff branch which I believe has one or two double deck trains which are diesel/electric and can provide a "one seat ride" from Smithtown/Kings Park, etc.  to Penn Station (LI'ers correct me if this is no longer true),  I rode on a similar double decker train from Chicago Downtown out to Hyde Park to visit the Museum of Science and a MBTA double train from Boston-North to Salem.
              >
              >
              >
              > Tom Burke
              >
              > People for Parks
              >
              >
              >
              > --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Edward.J.Tracey@... Edward.J.Tracey@... wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > From: Edward.J.Tracey@... Edward.J.Tracey@...
              >
              > Subject: [EddieEvents] Double-decker trains for Metro-North?
              >
              > To: EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:02 PM
              >
              >
              >
              >  
              >
              >
              >
              > I remember these trains (with the "Dashing Dan" logo on them) when my father
              >
              > rode them in the 1960's - had a chance to take one in Illinois in the mid-90's,
              >
              > before they were brought back into service.
              >
              >
              >
              > Metro-North Is Considering Double-Decker Trains
              >
              > By MICHAEL M. GRYNBAUM, NY Times
              >
              >
              >
              > Some commuters who take the railroad to Manhattan may soon enjoy an amenity
              >
              > more common to Paris than Ossining: the double-decker ride.
              >
              >
              >
              > The Metro-North Railroad is seriously considering buying double-decker coaches
              >
              > for its Harlem and Hudson lines, in a move to ease overcrowding on a rail
              >
              > network that routinely runs standing-room-only trains during rush hour.
              >
              >
              >
              > Two-level trains cost the same as their single-story counterparts, and can
              >
              > carry a third more passengers. And railroad officials insist that size would
              >
              > not be a problem: the taller trains could be designed to fit the narrow
              >
              > clearance of the tunnel to Grand Central Terminal. Metro-Northis next major
              >
              > purchase of new cars, including possibly the double-deckers, is scheduled for
              >
              > 2015.
              >
              >
              >
              > If approved, the double-deckers could redefine the travel experience of
              >
              > thousands of commuters who depend on the railroad each day. Upper-floor seats
              >
              > would command sweeping views of the Hudson River and, when the trains run above
              >
              > ground in Manhattan, glimpses of Central Park.
              >
              >
              >
              > One drawback: Some overhead luggage racks could be removed to make room. And
              >
              > the scramble for a prime seat above might inject another element of neighborly
              >
              > competition into Westchester Countyis status-conscious suburbs.
              >
              >
              >
              > But a fleet of rolling duplexes would bring the railroad in line with its
              >
              > nearby cousins. Double-decker trains, then called iup and downs,i were
              >
              > commonplace on the Long Island Rail Road from the late 1930s to the late 1960s;
              >
              > a more modern version began operation in 1998. New Jersey Transit has run
              >
              > double-deckers since 2005.
              >
              >
              >
              > Officials at both commuter railroads say the bilevel trains receive rave
              >
              > reviews from customers, particularly because their interior layouts eliminate
              >
              > the hated middle seat. iCustomers love them for a number of reasons,i said Dan
              >
              > Stessel, a spokesman for New Jersey Transit. iThey are quieter, and you have
              >
              > more leg room. Itis been overwhelmingly positive.i
              >
              >
              >
              > Howard Permut, the president of Metro-North, said he was attracted to the
              >
              > double-decker option because it could help solve a broader challenge facing
              >
              > Metro-North: its ballooning ridership, which has risen 10 percent in the last
              >
              > five years.
              >
              >
              >
              > The railroad is nearing capacity at Grand Central Terminal, its Midtown hub,
              >
              > and at rush hour it currently runs trains in and out of the Park Avenue tunnel
              >
              > at the fastest rate it can. Trains with greater seating capacity would allow
              >
              > the railroad to serve more passengers without creating more congestion at the
              >
              > terminal, Mr. Permut said.
              >
              >
              >
              > While multilevel trains are typically taller than regular trains, officials in
              >
              > the region have found ways to deal with the narrow clearance of underwater and
              >
              > underground tunnels that provide access into Manhattan. At New Jersey Transit,
              >
              > the bilevel cars feature a sharply beveled roof, which curves at a roughly
              >
              > 45-degree angle to ensure the trains do not scrape against walls. Metro-North
              >
              > engineers believe their trains would require an even steeper bevel to avoid the
              >
              > walls of the Park Avenue tunnel. And low-hanging wires and underground
              >
              > protrusions might have to be trimmed back.
              >
              >
              >
              > But the biggest potential deal breaker for the double-deckers, officials said,
              >
              > is how they would work with the crisscrossing rails beneath Grand Central.
              >
              > Unlike most train cars currently used by the railroad, bilevel coaches cannot
              >
              > run by themselves; they have no motors and must be propelled by a locomotive.
              >
              > But Grand Centralis tracks have hundreds of gaps where the electrified third
              >
              > rail abruptly ends, which could cause the locomotive to stall. A solution would
              >
              > be to use two locomotives, one on either end, to ensure the train never loses
              >
              > contact with the third rail, but that approach would be expensive.
              >
              >
              >
              > Another alternative, to use a locomotive that runs on both diesel and electric
              >
              > power, could result in slower trips, because those engines do not accelerate as
              >
              > fast their electric-only cousins. iThere are many considerations,i said
              >
              > Marjorie Anders, a spokeswoman for Metro-North.
              >
              >
              >
              > If the railroad decides to purchase the bilevel trains, they would not serve
              >
              > the New Haven line, which is receiving its own new single-level fleet of trains
              >
              > starting this fall. This month, Connecticut transit officials said they had
              >
              > decided not to buy custom-designed bar cars. Instead, the officials pledged to
              >
              > eventually retrofit seven of the 80 new cars into bar cars. The timing was
              >
              > still unclear; Judd Everhart, a spokesman for the Connecticut Department of
              >
              > Transportation, would say only that it would occur iat some point.i The
              >
              > converted bar cars would not be ready until 2012 at the earliest, Mr. Everhart
              >
              > said. But in an e-mail message, he said that ibar cars are very popular with
              >
              > many customers and in the interest of their satisfaction, we would like to keep
              >
              > this tradition alive.i
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >











              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Margaret Hefferle
              Oh I know it don t thrill you, I hope it don t kill you? Ouch ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 7 , Aug 18, 2010
                Oh I know it don't thrill you, I hope it don't kill you?
                Ouch

                On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Burke Thomas <tjburke12206@...>wrote:

                >
                >
                > Glad to hear that she got her first "real" job...as Pat (quoting some 70's
                > band) used to say...welcome to the working week....
                >
                > Tom Burke
                > People for Parks
                >
                > --- On Tue, 8/17/10, PatrickT <reorgman@... <reorgman%40yahoo.com>>
                > wrote:
                >
                > From: PatrickT <reorgman@... <reorgman%40yahoo.com>>
                > Subject: [EddieEvents] Re: Double-decker trains for Metro-North?
                > To: EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com <EddieEvents%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 8:33 PM
                >
                >
                >
                > The middle seat is better - if no one sits in it. The train on LONG ISLAND
                > (Double Decker) - the double seats are narrower and the leg room is so-so.
                > You can take a double decker from Montauk to Penn Station (but not to
                > Brooklyn that I can tell) They serve LI City/Hunterspoint Avenue as well.
                >
                > I will ask my Daughter Megan to check this out too.........as she will once
                > again have to buy a monthly pass as she GOT HER FIRST REAL JOB !!!!
                >
                > She starts Monday at Business Wire in NYC......a Warren Buffet company !
                >
                > Atsa My Girl !!!
                >
                > --- In EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com <EddieEvents%40yahoogroups.com>,
                > "Jeannemarie Tracey" <JTTracey@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > I can confirm the NJ Transit double-deckers.  Just got off of one 15
                > min ago!  And yes, those middle seats should be a thing of the past if
                > they want to make riders happy!
                > >
                > > JT
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre
                > > On Aug 17, 2010 3:40 PM, Burke Thomas tjburke12206@... wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >  
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Yes, these trains are cool and do not have the dreaded middle seat. 
                > Metro North needs to do something to increase capacity and this seems like a
                > reasonable plan.  However, as the article states, the low clearances in
                > the tunnel may make this difficult.
                > >
                > >  
                > >
                > > In addition to the LIRR Port Jeff branch which I believe has one or two
                > double deck trains which are diesel/electric and can provide a "one seat
                > ride" from Smithtown/Kings Park, etc.  to Penn Station (LI'ers correct
                > me if this is no longer true),  I rode on a similar double decker
                > train from Chicago Downtown out to Hyde Park to visit the Museum of Science
                > and a MBTA double train from Boston-North to Salem.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Tom Burke
                > >
                > > People for Parks
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Edward.J.Tracey@... Edward.J.Tracey@... wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > From: Edward.J.Tracey@... Edward.J.Tracey@...
                > >
                > > Subject: [EddieEvents] Double-decker trains for Metro-North?
                > >
                > > To: EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com <EddieEvents%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >
                > > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:02 PM
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >  
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I remember these trains (with the "Dashing Dan" logo on them) when my
                > father
                > >
                > > rode them in the 1960's - had a chance to take one in Illinois in the
                > mid-90's,
                > >
                > > before they were brought back into service.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Metro-North Is Considering Double-Decker Trains
                > >
                > > By MICHAEL M. GRYNBAUM, NY Times
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Some commuters who take the railroad to Manhattan may soon enjoy an
                > amenity
                > >
                > > more common to Paris than Ossining: the double-decker ride.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > The Metro-North Railroad is seriously considering buying double-decker
                > coaches
                > >
                > > for its Harlem and Hudson lines, in a move to ease overcrowding on a rail
                > >
                > > network that routinely runs standing-room-only trains during rush hour.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Two-level trains cost the same as their single-story counterparts, and
                > can
                > >
                > > carry a third more passengers. And railroad officials insist that size
                > would
                > >
                > > not be a problem: the taller trains could be designed to fit the narrow
                > >
                > > clearance of the tunnel to Grand Central Terminal. Metro-Northis next
                > major
                > >
                > > purchase of new cars, including possibly the double-deckers, is scheduled
                > for
                > >
                > > 2015.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > If approved, the double-deckers could redefine the travel experience of
                > >
                > > thousands of commuters who depend on the railroad each day. Upper-floor
                > seats
                > >
                > > would command sweeping views of the Hudson River and, when the trains run
                > above
                > >
                > > ground in Manhattan, glimpses of Central Park.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > One drawback: Some overhead luggage racks could be removed to make room.
                > And
                > >
                > > the scramble for a prime seat above might inject another element of
                > neighborly
                > >
                > > competition into Westchester Countyis status-conscious suburbs.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > But a fleet of rolling duplexes would bring the railroad in line with its
                > >
                > > nearby cousins. Double-decker trains, then called iup and downs,i were
                > >
                > > commonplace on the Long Island Rail Road from the late 1930s to the late
                > 1960s;
                > >
                > > a more modern version began operation in 1998. New Jersey Transit has run
                > >
                > > double-deckers since 2005.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Officials at both commuter railroads say the bilevel trains receive rave
                > >
                > > reviews from customers, particularly because their interior layouts
                > eliminate
                > >
                > > the hated middle seat. iCustomers love them for a number of reasons,i
                > said Dan
                > >
                > > Stessel, a spokesman for New Jersey Transit. iThey are quieter, and you
                > have
                > >
                > > more leg room. Itis been overwhelmingly positive.i
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Howard Permut, the president of Metro-North, said he was attracted to the
                > >
                > > double-decker option because it could help solve a broader challenge
                > facing
                > >
                > > Metro-North: its ballooning ridership, which has risen 10 percent in the
                > last
                > >
                > > five years.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > The railroad is nearing capacity at Grand Central Terminal, its Midtown
                > hub,
                > >
                > > and at rush hour it currently runs trains in and out of the Park Avenue
                > tunnel
                > >
                > > at the fastest rate it can. Trains with greater seating capacity would
                > allow
                > >
                > > the railroad to serve more passengers without creating more congestion at
                > the
                > >
                > > terminal, Mr. Permut said.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > While multilevel trains are typically taller than regular trains,
                > officials in
                > >
                > > the region have found ways to deal with the narrow clearance of
                > underwater and
                > >
                > > underground tunnels that provide access into Manhattan. At New Jersey
                > Transit,
                > >
                > > the bilevel cars feature a sharply beveled roof, which curves at a
                > roughly
                > >
                > > 45-degree angle to ensure the trains do not scrape against walls.
                > Metro-North
                > >
                > > engineers believe their trains would require an even steeper bevel to
                > avoid the
                > >
                > > walls of the Park Avenue tunnel. And low-hanging wires and underground
                > >
                > > protrusions might have to be trimmed back.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > But the biggest potential deal breaker for the double-deckers, officials
                > said,
                > >
                > > is how they would work with the crisscrossing rails beneath Grand
                > Central.
                > >
                > > Unlike most train cars currently used by the railroad, bilevel coaches
                > cannot
                > >
                > > run by themselves; they have no motors and must be propelled by a
                > locomotive.
                > >
                > > But Grand Centralis tracks have hundreds of gaps where the electrified
                > third
                > >
                > > rail abruptly ends, which could cause the locomotive to stall. A solution
                > would
                > >
                > > be to use two locomotives, one on either end, to ensure the train never
                > loses
                > >
                > > contact with the third rail, but that approach would be expensive.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Another alternative, to use a locomotive that runs on both diesel and
                > electric
                > >
                > > power, could result in slower trips, because those engines do not
                > accelerate as
                > >
                > > fast their electric-only cousins. iThere are many considerations,i said
                > >
                > > Marjorie Anders, a spokeswoman for Metro-North.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > If the railroad decides to purchase the bilevel trains, they would not
                > serve
                > >
                > > the New Haven line, which is receiving its own new single-level fleet of
                > trains
                > >
                > > starting this fall. This month, Connecticut transit officials said they
                > had
                > >
                > > decided not to buy custom-designed bar cars. Instead, the officials
                > pledged to
                > >
                > > eventually retrofit seven of the 80 new cars into bar cars. The timing
                > was
                > >
                > > still unclear; Judd Everhart, a spokesman for the Connecticut Department
                > of
                > >
                > > Transportation, would say only that it would occur iat some point.i The
                > >
                > > converted bar cars would not be ready until 2012 at the earliest, Mr.
                > Everhart
                > >
                > > said. But in an e-mail message, he said that ibar cars are very popular
                > with
                > >
                > > many customers and in the interest of their satisfaction, we would like
                > to keep
                > >
                > > this tradition alive.i
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • bobcas474@optonline.net
                Hey Dudes, Good luck to Megan on her train and new subway experience getting to work ... From: Burke Thomas Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:47 am Subject:
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 26, 2010
                  Hey Dudes,

                  Good luck to Megan on her train and new subway experience getting to work

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Burke Thomas
                  Date: Wednesday, August 18, 2010 10:47 am
                  Subject: [EddieEvents] Congrats to Megan T.
                  To: EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com, reorgman@...

                  > Glad to hear that she got her first "real" job...as Pat (quoting
                  > some 70's band) used to say...welcome to the working week....
                  >
                  > Tom Burke
                  > People for Parks
                  >
                  > --- On Tue, 8/17/10, PatrickT wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: PatrickT
                  > Subject: [EddieEvents] Re: Double-decker trains for Metro-North?
                  > To: EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 8:33 PM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The middle seat is better - if no one sits in it. The train on
                  > LONG ISLAND (Double Decker) - the double seats are narrower and
                  > the leg room is so-so. You can take a double decker from Montauk
                  > to Penn Station (but not to Brooklyn that I can tell) They serve
                  > LI City/Hunterspoint Avenue as well.
                  >
                  > I will ask my Daughter Megan to check this out too.........as
                  > she will once again have to buy a monthly pass as she GOT HER
                  > FIRST REAL JOB !!!!
                  >
                  > She starts Monday at Business Wire in NYC......a Warren Buffet
                  > company !
                  >
                  > Atsa My Girl !!!
                  >
                  > --- In EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com, "Jeannemarie Tracey"
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I can confirm the NJ Transit double-deckers. Just got off of
                  > one 15 min ago! And yes, those middle seats should be a thing
                  > of the past if they want to make riders happy!
                  > >
                  > > JT
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > -- Sent from my Palm Pre
                  > > On Aug 17, 2010 3:40 PM, Burke Thomas tjburke12206@... wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yes, these trains are cool and do not have the dreaded middle
                  > seat. Metro North needs to do something to increase capacity
                  > and this seems like a reasonable plan. However, as the article
                  > states, the low clearances in the tunnel may make this difficult.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > In addition to the LIRR Port Jeff branch which I believe has
                  > one or two double deck trains which are diesel/electric and can
                  > provide a "one seat ride" from Smithtown/Kings Park, etc. to
                  > Penn Station (LI'ers correct me if this is no longer true), I
                  > rode on a similar double decker train from Chicago Downtown out
                  > to Hyde Park to visit the Museum of Science and a MBTA double
                  > train from Boston-North to Salem.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Tom Burke
                  > >
                  > > People for Parks
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- On Tue, 8/17/10, Edward.J.Tracey@... Edward.J.Tracey@... wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > From: Edward.J.Tracey@... Edward.J.Tracey@...
                  > >
                  > > Subject: [EddieEvents] Double-decker trains for Metro-North?
                  > >
                  > > To: EddieEvents@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > > Date: Tuesday, August 17, 2010, 3:02 PM
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I remember these trains (with the "Dashing Dan" logo on them)
                  > when my father
                  > >
                  > > rode them in the 1960's - had a chance to take one in Illinois
                  > in the mid-90's,
                  > >
                  > > before they were brought back into service.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Metro-North Is Considering Double-Decker Trains
                  > >
                  > > By MICHAEL M. GRYNBAUM, NY Times
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Some commuters who take the railroad to Manhattan may soon
                  > enjoy an amenity
                  > >
                  > > more common to Paris than Ossining: the double-decker ride.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The Metro-North Railroad is seriously considering buying
                  > double-decker coaches
                  > >
                  > > for its Harlem and Hudson lines, in a move to ease
                  > overcrowding on a rail
                  > >
                  > > network that routinely runs standing-room-only trains during
                  > rush hour.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Two-level trains cost the same as their single-story
                  > counterparts, and can
                  > >
                  > > carry a third more passengers. And railroad officials insist
                  > that size would
                  > >
                  > > not be a problem: the taller trains could be designed to fit
                  > the narrow
                  > >
                  > > clearance of the tunnel to Grand Central Terminal. Metro-
                  > Northis next major
                  > >
                  > > purchase of new cars, including possibly the double-deckers,
                  > is scheduled for
                  > >
                  > > 2015.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > If approved, the double-deckers could redefine the travel
                  > experience of
                  > >
                  > > thousands of commuters who depend on the railroad each day.
                  > Upper-floor seats
                  > >
                  > > would command sweeping views of the Hudson River and, when the
                  > trains run above
                  > >
                  > > ground in Manhattan, glimpses of Central Park.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > One drawback: Some overhead luggage racks could be removed to
                  > make room. And
                  > >
                  > > the scramble for a prime seat above might inject another
                  > element of neighborly
                  > >
                  > > competition into Westchester Countyis status-conscious
                  > suburbs.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > But a fleet of rolling duplexes would bring the railroad in
                  > line with its
                  > >
                  > > nearby cousins. Double-decker trains, then called iup and
                  > downs,i were
                  > >
                  > > commonplace on the Long Island Rail Road from the late 1930s
                  > to the late 1960s;
                  > >
                  > > a more modern version began operation in 1998. New Jersey
                  > Transit has run
                  > >
                  > > double-deckers since 2005.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Officials at both commuter railroads say the bilevel trains
                  > receive rave
                  > >
                  > > reviews from customers, particularly because their interior
                  > layouts eliminate
                  > >
                  > > the hated middle seat. iCustomers love them for a number of
                  > reasons,i said Dan
                  > >
                  > > Stessel, a spokesman for New Jersey Transit. iThey are
                  > quieter, and you have
                  > >
                  > > more leg room. Itis been overwhelmingly positive.i
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Howard Permut, the president of Metro-North, said he was
                  > attracted to the
                  > >
                  > > double-decker option because it could help solve a broader
                  > challenge facing
                  > >
                  > > Metro-North: its ballooning ridership, which has risen 10
                  > percent in the last
                  > >
                  > > five years.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > The railroad is nearing capacity at Grand Central Terminal,
                  > its Midtown hub,
                  > >
                  > > and at rush hour it currently runs trains in and out of the
                  > Park Avenue tunnel
                  > >
                  > > at the fastest rate it can. Trains with greater seating
                  > capacity would allow
                  > >
                  > > the railroad to serve more passengers without creating more
                  > congestion at the
                  > >
                  > > terminal, Mr. Permut said.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > While multilevel trains are typically taller than regular
                  > trains, officials in
                  > >
                  > > the region have found ways to deal with the narrow clearance
                  > of underwater and
                  > >
                  > > underground tunnels that provide access into Manhattan. At New
                  > Jersey Transit,
                  > >
                  > > the bilevel cars feature a sharply beveled roof, which curves
                  > at a roughly
                  > >
                  > > 45-degree angle to ensure the trains do not scrape against
                  > walls. Metro-North
                  > >
                  > > engineers believe their trains would require an even steeper
                  > bevel to avoid the
                  > >
                  > > walls of the Park Avenue tunnel. And low-hanging wires and
                  > underground>
                  > > protrusions might have to be trimmed back.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > But the biggest potential deal breaker for the double-deckers,
                  > officials said,
                  > >
                  > > is how they would work with the crisscrossing rails beneath
                  > Grand Central.
                  > >
                  > > Unlike most train cars currently used by the railroad, bilevel
                  > coaches cannot
                  > >
                  > > run by themselves; they have no motors and must be propelled
                  > by a locomotive.
                  > >
                  > > But Grand Centralis tracks have hundreds of gaps where the
                  > electrified third
                  > >
                  > > rail abruptly ends, which could cause the locomotive to stall.
                  > A solution would
                  > >
                  > > be to use two locomotives, one on either end, to ensure the
                  > train never loses
                  > >
                  > > contact with the third rail, but that approach would be
                  > expensive.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Another alternative, to use a locomotive that runs on both
                  > diesel and electric
                  > >
                  > > power, could result in slower trips, because those engines do
                  > not accelerate as
                  > >
                  > > fast their electric-only cousins. iThere are many
                  > considerations,i said
                  > >
                  > > Marjorie Anders, a spokeswoman for Metro-North.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > If the railroad decides to purchase the bilevel trains, they
                  > would not serve
                  > >
                  > > the New Haven line, which is receiving its own new single-
                  > level fleet of trains
                  > >
                  > > starting this fall. This month, Connecticut transit officials
                  > said they had
                  > >
                  > > decided not to buy custom-designed bar cars. Instead, the
                  > officials pledged to
                  > >
                  > > eventually retrofit seven of the 80 new cars into bar cars.
                  > The timing was
                  > >
                  > > still unclear; Judd Everhart, a spokesman for the Connecticut
                  > Department of
                  > >
                  > > Transportation, would say only that it would occur iat some
                  > point.i The
                  > >
                  > > converted bar cars would not be ready until 2012 at the
                  > earliest, Mr. Everhart
                  > >
                  > > said. But in an e-mail message, he said that ibar cars are
                  > very popular with
                  > >
                  > > many customers and in the interest of their satisfaction, we
                  > would like to keep
                  > >
                  > > this tradition alive.i
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >


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