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Two Important Points

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  • pretujari
    Two very important points have been made here recently which I think need to be emphasised. The first is in the posting by Dolly, and the circumstances of how
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 4, 2006
      Two very important points have been made here recently which I think
      need to be emphasised.

      The first is in the posting by Dolly, and the circumstances of how
      she left Eckankar. This happened through communication from Spirit,
      and her cooperation with It. Her experience is an example of the All-
      knowingness of Universal Consciousness in expression, and cultivating
      and deepening our relationship with It is the only way to go in
      spiritual exploration and growth.

      Again, her experience is a revealing indictment on Eckankar and the
      false claims by Klemp to be the carrier of Universal Consciousness.
      Surely, he cannot be this Consciousness if this same Consciousness,
      practically himself, revealed the lie and deception about himself and
      his org to one of his own chelas. I guess Dolly's experience is one
      of a Kal agent versus the true Spiritual Consciousness, so I say will
      the real Kal agent please stand up!

      The other point was made by Prometheus regarding the impossibility of
      a dialogue between the 'detractors' and the Eckists.There is nothing
      to talk about because there is no common ground here.As Prometheus
      said, we have been where they still are. I once agreed with a group
      of ex-Eckists that no matter what so-called initiation levels we were
      at in Eckankar, our having seen and left the org for the reasons we
      did, is an indication of our growth in consciousness. So for that
      gentleman's information, we the 'detractors' of Eckankar,who have
      been there, done that and bear the battle scars are higher in
      consciousness than everthing Eckankar, including their master Klemp.

      By the way, I think Klemp's new book, 'Those Wonderful Eck Masters'
      is a deliberate counter to the damaging revelations about the org,
      and to further grind the concept into the psyche of the unsuspecting
      followers.

      Pretujari
    • mishmisha9
      Hello, Pretujari and All! Thank you for emphasizing these two points. Eckists or anyone else who are caught up in an org that begins to feel uncomfortable
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 4, 2006
        Hello, Pretujari and All!

        Thank you for emphasizing these two points. Eckists or anyone else
        who are caught up in an org that begins to feel uncomfortable should
        follow that nudge and search for the truth of why these feelings
        have surfaced. Dolly certainly did! Perhaps, it is easier said than
        done, but covering up and making excuses, or putting spins on things
        in order to make it work in one's mind is not the way to go! I read
        various discussions sites and have learned that many people work
        quite industriously at rationalizing in order to "believe" what is
        contained in the conflicting writings and deceptive lies which are
        the roots of eckankar.

        Sadly, it seems that HK's new book "Those Wonderful Eck Masters" is
        written for the purpose as Pretujari so well states to deliberately
        counter the damaging revelations about eckankar and to continue to
        control its followers. To call certain chelas "losers" as HK does in
        this book is truly cruel and heartless. It also suggests to those
        obedient and fanatical followers of HK that they now have a license
        to treat others who question, have difficulty understanding the
        teachings or who are lacking advancement in the hierarchy in just
        the same manner as their master (HK) does! So now, we will see that
        Divine Love does not have any meaning or worth to these delusionally
        led followers of Klemp. Well, with this sort of attitude and
        behaviour towards others, I believe that HK's efforts in writing
        this book will not achieve its goal. It will further drive eckists
        away and keep seekers from joining the org. Cool, really!

        I also agree with Prometheus, as Pretujurai also points out, there
        is no common ground to discuss these issues with eckists. It leads
        no where, but for those who are searching as Dolly did, this site
        serves a good purpose in allowing the truth about eckankar to be
        displayed to those who want see it! : )

        Mish

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "pretujari"
        <pretujari@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Two very important points have been made here recently which I
        think need to be emphasised.
        >
        > The first is in the posting by Dolly, and the circumstances of how
        > she left Eckankar. This happened through communication from
        Spirit, and her cooperation with It. Her experience is an example of
        the All-knowingness of Universal Consciousness in expression, and
        cultivating and deepening our relationship with It is the only way
        to go in spiritual exploration and growth.
        >
        > Again, her experience is a revealing indictment on Eckankar and
        the false claims by Klemp to be the carrier of Universal
        Consciousness. Surely, he cannot be this Consciousness if this same
        Consciousness, practically himself, revealed the lie and deception
        about himself and his org to one of his own chelas. I guess Dolly's
        experience is one of a Kal agent versus the true Spiritual
        Consciousness, so I say will the real Kal agent please stand up!
        >
        > The other point was made by Prometheus regarding the impossibility
        of a dialogue between the 'detractors' and the Eckists.There is
        nothing to talk about because there is no common ground here.As
        Prometheus said, we have been where they still are. I once agreed
        with a group of ex-Eckists that no matter what so-called initiation
        levels we were at in Eckankar, our having seen and left the org for
        the reasons we did, is an indication of our growth in consciousness.
        So for that gentleman's information, we the 'detractors' of
        Eckankar,who have been there, done that and bear the battle scars
        are higher in consciousness than everthing Eckankar, including their
        master Klemp.
        >
        > By the way, I think Klemp's new book, 'Those Wonderful Eck
        Masters'is a deliberate counter to the damaging revelations about
        the org, and to further grind the concept into the psyche of the
        unsuspecting followers.
        >
        > Pretujari
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Pretujari, Thank you for the post. Klemp does have two faces doesn t he! He speaks from both sides of his mouth and says one thing here and another
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 5, 2006
          Hello Pretujari,

          Thank you for the post. Klemp does have two faces doesn't he! He
          speaks from both sides of his mouth and says one thing here and
          another thing, that negates his previous words, over there! The five
          passions and five virtues are all mixed in together! The confusion
          he creates helps to keep his followers off balance and always
          guessing. They come to believe that their lack of comprehension is
          due to a lack of spiritual consciousness and that the Mahanta
          (Klemp) is soooo much more advanced than they are. They also come to
          believe that the higher initiations will, eventually, help to clear
          the fog. LOL! The real truth is that Klemp can only become
          more "spiritually" advanced, than the rest of us, when people buy
          into Twitchell's original scam and become Eckists! Otherwise, Klemp
          is just a has-been farmer/Luthern student minister and multi-
          millionaire that wears cheap suits for his show-and-tell seminar
          circus acts! The two faces of Klemp are physical and Astral. He has
          become quite vain in "writing" as many books as he can. However,
          most of the material for his books comes from others. In actuality
          Eckists, via initiate reports, become Klemp's ghost writers! Clever,
          since he gets all of the credit for something anyone could do.

          I would like to make more comments in response to the below post.
          However, I will just comment on your first point.


          pretujari wrote:

          Two very important points have been made here recently which I think
          need to be emphasised.

          The first is in the posting by Dolly, and the circumstances of how
          she left Eckankar. This happened through communication from Spirit,
          and her cooperation with It. Her experience is an example of the All-
          knowingness of Universal Consciousness in expression, and
          cultivating and deepening our relationship with It is the only way
          to go in spiritual exploration and growth.

          ***True, and Klemp states on page 211 of Those Wonderful ECK Masters
          that, "Actual inner experiences help one move to a greater
          understanding of the ways of divine revelation." Therefore, (using
          this criteria) Dolly had an "actual" inner experience and divine
          revelation!

          Again, her experience is a revealing indictment on Eckankar and the
          false claims by Klemp to be the carrier of Universal Consciousness.
          Surely, he cannot be this Consciousness if this same Consciousness,
          practically himself, revealed the lie and deception about himself
          and his org to one of his own chelas. I guess Dolly's experience is
          one of a Kal agent versus the true Spiritual Consciousness, so I say
          will the real Kal agent please stand up!

          ***The real Kal agent is Klemp! On page 211 Klemp continues to show
          his own anger by reversing the Mahanta's responsibility to his
          chelas and plays the "blame game" by saying, "a headstrong follower
          always tries to fix blame on the Mahanta, the Living Eck Master when
          his attempts to advance in Eck come to nothing. BUT such an attitude
          changes nothing. The individual is a loser and will continue to be a
          loser until he adopts the practices of a winner... I'm used to such
          misdirected slings." Prior to his tirade Klemp says, "BUT IF he
          chooses to hang on to shopworn karmic debts due to, say, an
          inability to control some mental passion or habit like anger, then
          his momentum stops." [Notice the BUT and BUT IF] Once again, this
          proves that Klemp has two faces just as does an agent for the Kal.
          He says one thing and then negates it! Some Eckists will rationalize
          and say that the Master is teaching with "tough love" but perhaps
          they should remember those nasty comments and negativity directed at
          that TEMPORARY POSTAL CLERK (Non-Eckist) in the 09/2003 H.I. Letter!
          When Eckists can rationalize this away they are the losers of truth!

          ***Yes, it's quite amusing that the Eck Initiations, which cause so
          much frustration for Eckists, are now causing frustration for Klemp!
          LOL! The "headstrong followers" Klemp mentioned are really
          independent minded and are getting fed up with the inconsistencies,
          double-talk, and double standards surrounding the initiations. It
          all helps to show that the initiations have no foundation or reality
          except in one's own mind, written in Twitchell's Shariyat, or on an
          Eck I.D. card! <smile> If there are higher inner initiations, of
          sorts, they are Not exclusive to Eckankar or exclusive to followers
          of religion per se. The initiations are for Soul's own unfoldment
          (not a goal) and are independent of any "intercession" by other
          Souls.

          Prometheus
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