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Re: From Dolly - thankyou for your replies

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi Dolly, It s good to hear more about your experiences and spiritual journey. Mish shared some good info and I thought I d make some comments on what you have
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 29, 2005
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      Hi Dolly,
      It's good to hear more about your experiences and spiritual journey.
      Mish shared some good info and I thought I'd make some comments on
      what you have recently posted.


      dolly wrote:

      Hi Guys, Dolly here.
      Great to hear back from you. Thankyou for all your very helpful
      comments. I will follow up on all your info. What got me to check
      out Eckankar on the net? Periodically I look back over the Amway
      survivors material to see the latest on what's happening, as I had
      met a lot of the Diamonds etc from the States. I had not looked at
      it for over a year. So about 7pm on the Friday nite went into some
      of the sites, - was really tired at 11.30pm - decided to go to bed -
      funny thing happened -I was nearly asleep when a 'little inkling'
      said - 'maybe you could find out if there is anything to do with
      Eckankar and Cults' on the internet. I was sooo tired, didn't want
      to get up, but made the effort. It didn't take long - I typed
      in 'Cults and Eckankar' in minutes I was wide awake!

      *****This sounds like the stories Eckists have in discovering
      Eckankar! However, your discovery is of truth rather than the
      distortions of truth. Sounds like good karma to me!

      Looking back over the last week or two - I remember asking myself
      the question - I wonder if Sri Harold is really God in Man form - or
      just someone who has set himself up as a figure head - someone had
      been telling me that he was unwell - frail was the word they used -
      and I remember thinking 'I wonder how God can get sick?'

      *****Yes, it seems the godman is sick! In his Eckankar Lexicon Klemp
      states in the definition for MAHANTA that he (the Mahanta) is
      the "special incarnation of the SUGMAD." Since "God" is seen
      (through Eck dogma) as a 2nd or 4th Plane diety and Jesus as a chela
      in training, when world consciousness was very low, the 14th Plane
      Mahanta should be without negative illness. Funny how Klemp claims
      Twitchell's Mahanta consciousness was lower than his is today and
      this is linked to past and present world consciousness. What
      happened with today's advanced consciousness? Perhaps, HK is Not
      practicing what he preaches to others. After all, if Rebazar can be
      500 years old and healthy and the Eck Master ASOKI can be 60,000
      years old in a physical body why is Klemp having problems?
      Hmmmmmmmmmmmm - maybe because it's all fictional!

      To answer your question on the Eckankar-Amway link. One of the
      first sites I went into was 'Early Eckankar History' -one of the
      articles is to do with property that was owned by a Helen Frye -
      acres in Arizona, and wills and courtcases etc etc This money-
      making side of it suddenly made me wonder if Eckankar was nothing
      more than a 'religious amway-type company that make their money out
      of Membership Fees, Books, Tapes, Seminars, Functions (I love my
      EK watch) -I was flabbergasted to think it might be just another
      money-making scheme under a differet guise. So that was the only
      correlation.

      *****Yes, the Helen Frye/Sedona/Eckankar thing was very bad. Gross
      had made her an 8th Initiate around the time he made Klemp an 8th.
      DG scammed her out of the Sedona property and her heirs were very
      upset. It just goes to show the state of consciousness of the
      Eckankar org back then when Klemp was climbing the Initiation ladder.

      Now, since I sent that 1st e-mail yesterday - I've thought 'dummy -
      you left out the reason you joined Eckankar' no questions asked!
      - Short history- childhood - went to which ever church was closest
      to where mum and dad lived at the time (we were always moving)
      Church of England, Methodist, Presbyterian, Church of Christ,
      Assemblies of God, Baptist. When I got married hubby (who'd been
      brought up a Catholic) & I became Seventh-Day Adventists - but we
      got sick of eating TVP - I think we resigned so we could have a
      steak! I don't usually say this - so I'd better spell it
      - s h i t - I never realised til now - when I had to think about
      it - how many churches I've been in.

      *****S_it does happen! Yep, I went through a bunch of churches,
      Eastern Religion, and even psychic groups and such before joining
      Eckankar. I did the TVP - Vegie thing for a few years too! Isn't it
      interesting how Klemp has agreed with Twitchell in putting down the
      Roman Catholic Church for its "apostolic tradition" and yet
      Twitchell copied this to create a lineage of Eck Masters. Somewhat
      clever wasn't it! I wonder why Eckists don't see the correlations?!

      After the 7th day episode (3 years of an awful regime - made life
      hard - I swore I would never go into another church- and I haven't.
      I started searching thru New Age Bookshops - did the Catherine
      Ponder Books, then moved on to the Joel Goldsmith's Infinite Way
      Books. This was 1992-96.

      *****Yes, I had all of Goldsmith's books! I find it interesting how
      Klemp has made excuses for Twitchell in order to validate his own
      position. Why can't Klemp write a Shariyat 3 & 4 to bring this Eck
      knowledge up-to-date with world consciousness?! Doesn't Klemp
      communicate with the Nine Silent Ones who "Compiled" the Shariyats 1
      & 2 for Twitchell? Hmmmmm These are mysterious times in Eckankar!: )

      One nite while sitting at my desk at home- contemplating on what I
      was reading - I suddenly started on a journey thru a big, very
      bright, white tube arriving suddenly at a Room - It seemed to be
      round, with dark cream and browny-maroon furnishings that looked
      like the 17th-18th century period. In the middle of the room sat a
      man in a dark-stained wooden rocking chair. He had dark hair with a
      beard. He looked at me and smiled. I remember thinking to myself -
      this must be Nostradamus - He looked at me intently and then
      suddenly I was 'Back' at my desk. I felt very happy - this
      experience stayed with me for a long time. I told no-one. But I
      couldn't find any clue to who he was - until - someone gave me an
      ECK book - you guessed it - Nostradamus had a look alike - Rebazar
      Tarzs. I see now why I didn't question anything - coz suddenly years
      later, I had some sort of answer for 'the experience'.

      *****I always had a lot of spiritual experiences with all kinds of
      phenomena prior to joining Eckankar and during Eckankar. However,
      the after-Eckankar experiences have surpassed all of my previous
      experiences! And, even the former Eckist James Davis (The Rosetta
      Stone of God) had inner experiences with what he thought was the
      Mahanta and the Eck Masters until he discovered that these were his
      own mental constructs created by Soul! We are our own true Master.
      Therefore, this is also why one can experience and receive these
      mental constructs prior to discovering Eckankar because Soul is Not
      limited to time or space. The mind is just used as a mental body and
      communication device for Soul.

      I see where a lot of you have been 'in' Eckankar for so much longer
      than me. My experience with groups of people (churches,Amway MLMs
      etc) taught me not to do the buddy-buddy thing - so I never attended
      a Satsang class, have been to about 20 Hu Songs in Five Years and
      have only ever gone to 3 or 4 Worship Services in 5 years. I
      attented major seminars. Becoz to go to a worship service on
      a 'Sunday' did not sit well with me - too much like going to church!

      *****Klemp has modeled Eckankar after his Luthern roots. Some of the
      older old-timer Eckists seem to enjoy the religious aspects of
      Eckankar. Even with most areas meeting only once a month for the Eck
      Worship Service I would still hear comments like, "We missed you
      last month" from H.I.s that should have known better. I would wonder
      when their last Arahata Training was or whether they would ever "get
      it." This is why Klemp finally had to come out with more and better
      trainings for Eck leaders. Still, many Eckists just dislike the
      structure and guidelines and act very passive/aggressive towards
      them. Where's the freedom? Besides, how can Eckists promote Eckankar
      when their own spiritual growth is lacking? Most Eckists just end up
      talking the (authorized and approved) talk with hopes that the next
      Initiation will give better clarification for it all. Alas, it never
      happens and, thus, the delusions increase as the mind compensates
      for the unfulfilled promises of Self, Spiritual, and God-Realization.

      But the main reason - if you go 'to' everything that's on, every
      week, then miss a week, -people - want to know why you 'missed'
      being there last week. That questioning makes me feel uncomfortable -
      so I avoid it - I don't go! I just liked reading the books!
      I received the 2nd initiation after the second year, but looking
      back now, I can see that initiations are there just to boost one's
      ego - they don't change reality.

      *****Yes, those initiations are a bunch of carrots (usually seven).
      Here's an interesting quote from Klemp [my caps]: "Initiates of the
      high circles in ECK unfold ONLY to the DEGREE to which they PERCEIVE
      HOW the Law of Economy governs the ORBITS of OBJECTS in EVERY
      macroCOSMIC OR microCOSMIC creation. This includes the COHESIVE
      ATOMS in the human body... whoever orders his life around an
      agreement with the Light and Sound of ECK is ASSURED that EVERY
      PROBLEM has a READY-MADE SOLUTION near at hand." It seems that Klemp
      just can't be honest with Eckists as to WHO gets what and HOW it's
      really done. There's always more crap added to the pile!

      From what you guys are saying I should read this Ford guys book.
      Already after reading what you guys have to say - I'm starting to
      feel not so guilty - I was at first - about the negative thoughts I
      was having regarding the Mr Klemp person.

      *****Ford Johnson was an insider, although, a 7th and Not an 8th
      Initiate. Ford was too free a thinker to have been an 8th Initiate.
      Klemp wants "yes" men and women for the 8th and 9th initiations.
      There is limited individuality and No spiritual freedom inside the
      hive! <sigh> LOL!

      Prometheus
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