Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: No wonder Harold did a lot of editing!

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    Hi Mish, It does seem strange that the founder of Eckankar (and modern day prophet/savior), Paul Twitchell, doesn t have all of his books available for sale
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 16, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Mish,

      It does seem strange that the founder of Eckankar (and modern day
      prophet/savior), Paul Twitchell, doesn't have all of his books
      available for sale from the religion that he created! Paul must be
      spinnibg in his grave, or was he cremated? How disappointed he must
      be in little Harry Klemp! All of that Eck donation money for guilted
      staircases and such, but none left to reprint the historical
      beginnings and wisdom of such an advanced spiritual path! <sigh>

      What could be the reasons for Not offering these books? Is it true
      that some of the Paul's early writings might Not "fit" perfectly
      with today's consciousness? But wouldn't Christians want to read
      every word that Jesus had spoken?! Then again, maybe some Christian
      leaders wouldn't want every thought and word of Jesus's shared with
      the world. What would these leaders fear? That the wisdom wouldn't
      apply to the modern world or that people would just be confused by
      unfiltered and unedited wisdom. Maybe the thought would be, Why
      create more confusion for people? Maybe little Harry is thinking,
      Why create more confusion for Eckists? Actually, Klemp is saving
      Eckists from the truth about Twitchell, and the scam of Eckankar.
      For Eckists, ignorance really is bliss! Besides, little Harry would
      be out of a high paying job with great perks if Eckists figured it
      all out too soon!

      Prometheus



      mishmisha wrote:

      The word "confusing" is the key to keeping eckists in the org.
      Everything is kept mysterious and secret which creates the
      confusion. The confusion is justified and deemed okay because it is
      just part of the teachings. When the chela advances, he will
      understand better. Yada, yada! The confusion is just an indication
      that the chela has not advanced enough to "know." So, this validates
      the quite "normal" confusion which in turn makes the chela feel that
      all is right with the teachings in eckankar. The confusion helps to
      control those who question. As to Twitchell's books disappearing,
      well, truly eckists should wonder why they are not available now. It
      would seem that Twitchell's total writings would be of great
      interest and important to the present day teachings in eckankar.
      Certainly something is "rotten in Denmark!"

      Mish
    • ctecvie
      Hello Prometheus, ... *** Little Harry wanted the temple to last till eternity - so maybe he thought some gold couldn t hurt! Perhaps he wanted to set a
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 17, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Prometheus,

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Mish,
        >
        > It does seem strange that the founder of Eckankar (and modern day
        > prophet/savior), Paul Twitchell, doesn't have all of his books
        > available for sale from the religion that he created! Paul must be
        > spinnibg in his grave, or was he cremated? How disappointed he
        >must
        > be in little Harry Klemp! All of that Eck donation money for
        >guilted
        > staircases and such, but none left to reprint the historical
        > beginnings and wisdom of such an advanced spiritual path! <sigh>

        *** Little Harry wanted the temple to last till eternity - so maybe
        he thought some gold couldn't hurt! Perhaps he wanted to set a
        monument for himself, in stone, marble, gold and the like! This is
        better as books because books can get lost quite easily -
        discontinue them, burn them, discredit them ... whatever.

        >
        > What could be the reasons for Not offering these books? Is it true
        > that some of the Paul's early writings might Not "fit" perfectly
        > with today's consciousness? But wouldn't Christians want to read
        > every word that Jesus had spoken?! Then again, maybe some
        >Christian
        > leaders wouldn't want every thought and word of Jesus's shared
        >with
        > the world. What would these leaders fear? That the wisdom wouldn't
        > apply to the modern world or that people would just be confused by
        > unfiltered and unedited wisdom. Maybe the thought would be, Why
        > create more confusion for people? Maybe little Harry is thinking,
        > Why create more confusion for Eckists? Actually, Klemp is saving
        > Eckists from the truth about Twitchell, and the scam of Eckankar.
        > For Eckists, ignorance really is bliss! Besides, little Harry
        >would
        > be out of a high paying job with great perks if Eckists figured it
        > all out too soon!

        Yeah - I think PT said things that would not be consistent with the
        course Eckankar is steering today - and this could be embarrassing
        for the leaders (by the way is it Little Harry Himself or rather
        Peter Skelskey who is steering the Eckankar boat?). And imagine how
        embarrassing it would be if suddenly the original version
        of "Letters to Gail" came up! LOL!

        Ingrid
      • l2eigh
        Hi Mish: Oh, I certainly agree that confusing and confusion make up the heart of Eckankar. The dangerous thing is to settle down (accept this), to become
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 17, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Mish:
          Oh, I certainly agree that "confusing" and "confusion" make
          up the heart of Eckankar. The dangerous thing is to "settle down"
          (accept this), to become peaceful and content, carrying this nest of
          emptines and meaninglessness inside you.
          Incidentally, happy holidays to you and everyone on this
          list.

          Leigh



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Leigh!
          >
          > The word "confusing" is the key to keeping eckists in the org.
          > Everything is kept mysterious and secret which creates the
          > confusion. The confusion is justified and deemed okay because it
          is
          > just part of the teachings. When the chela advances, he will
          > understand better. Yada, yada! The confusion is just an indication
          > that the chela has not advanced enough to "know." So, this
          validates
          > the quite "normal" confusion which in turn makes the chela feel
          that
          > all is right with the teachings in eckankar. The confusion helps
          to
          > control those who question. As to Twitchell's books disappearing,
          > well, truly eckists should wonder why they are not available now.
          It
          > would seem that Twitchell's total writings would be of great
          > interest and important to the present day teachings in eckankar.
          > Certainly something is "rotten in Denmark!"
          >
          > Mish
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Ingrid and All, It seems Klemp can do and say anything without having it questioned by Eckists. But, that s what has always made Eckankar a cult! Klemp
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 17, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Ingrid and All,
            It seems Klemp can do and say anything without having it questioned
            by Eckists. But, that's what has always made Eckankar a cult! Klemp
            eliminates and edits Twitchell's original material while only
            sharing shallow, common place, embellished, or contradicting
            accounts of perceived "spiritual" wisdom.

            In Klemp's 2005 EWWS talk he states, "Enthusiasm is infectious.
            People respond. Missionary work is fun." Yet this is from a person
            who has been employed by Eckankar for 35 years! It's been part of
            his paid job to do missionary work. So once again... talk is a cheap
            commodity for Little Harry. Besides, aren't Eckists supposed to be
            neither for or against anything? Does "enthusiasm" depict detachment
            or contentment? Or, do Eckists just demonstrate or act "as if" they
            have enthusiasm, as well as, love in their hearts?!

            It's funny that Klemp found out that some people at the local Unity
            Church referred to him as "Big" Harry, and he in turn flipped that
            to compare himself to the mythological coal mining hero of "Big"
            John. But I see him more as the mythological thief of "Little" John
            who helped Robin Hood to rob the rich and give to the poor. Instead,
            however, the irony is that Klemp is not a physically large or strong
            man as Little John was, and that Klemp steals from the poor Eckists
            to make himself rich! Therefore, I have thus crowned Shree Klemp as
            Little Harry!



            Ingrid wrote:

            Hello Prometheus,

            Prometheus wrote:
            It does seem strange that the founder of Eckankar (and modern day
            prophet/savior), Paul Twitchell, doesn't have all of his books
            available for sale from the religion that he created! Paul must be
            spinnibg in his grave, or was he cremated? How disappointed he must
            be in little Harry Klemp! All of that Eck donation money for guilted
            staircases and such, but none left to reprint the historical
            beginnings and wisdom of such an advanced spiritual path! <sigh>

            Ingrid: Little Harry wanted the temple to last till eternity - so
            maybe he thought some gold couldn't hurt! Perhaps he wanted to set a
            monument for himself, in stone, marble, gold and the like! This is
            better as books because books can get lost quite easily -
            discontinue them, burn them, discredit them ... whatever.



            *****I think your're correct! Klemp built a monument to himself! How
            could any future LEM/Mahanta deny, edit, or delete this? Hmmmmm.
            Actually, in time Klemp's material, reputation, and works could be
            seen in its true light and easily be reduced to nothing of substance.




            Prometheus: What could be the reasons for Not offering these books?
            Is it true that some of the Paul's early writings might Not "fit"
            perfectly with today's consciousness? But wouldn't Christians want
            to read every word that Jesus had spoken?! Then again, maybe some
            Christian leaders wouldn't want every thought and word of Jesus's
            shared with the world. What would these leaders fear? That the
            wisdom wouldn't apply to the modern world or that people would just
            be confused by unfiltered and unedited wisdom. Maybe the thought
            would be, Why create more confusion for people? Maybe little Harry
            is thinking, Why create more confusion for Eckists? Actually, Klemp
            is saving Eckists from the truth about Twitchell, and the scam of
            Eckankar. For Eckists, ignorance really is bliss! Besides, little
            Harry would be out of a high paying job with great perks if Eckists
            figured it all out too soon!

            Ingrid: Yeah - I think PT said things that would not be consistent
            with the course Eckankar is steering today - and this could be
            embarrassing for the leaders (by the way is it Little Harry Himself
            or rather Peter Skelskey who is steering the Eckankar boat?). And
            imagine how embarrassing it would be if suddenly the original
            version of "Letters to Gail" came up! LOL!


            *****It could be that Joan is doing more steering than Peter! Peter
            is just waiting in the wings and being a yes man and lap dog for
            now. The question for Little Harry and Joan is, Who can be trusted
            Not to do to Klemp that Klemp did to Gross?!

            Prometheus
          • mishmisha9
            Hi, Leigh! Proof of this confusion is readily seen in the posts by eckists on the non-official eck chat sites--if you care to check out Chela Chat and Hu Chat.
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 17, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi, Leigh!

              Proof of this confusion is readily seen in the posts by eckists on
              the non-official eck chat sites--if you care to check out Chela Chat
              and Hu Chat. They seem to have a problem agreeing about what is
              meant in the teachings! As for karma, eckists, instead of getting
              rid of it, seem to rope more and more of it in, because they feel
              they have to deal with certain situations/relationships instead of
              saying "I pass." LOL! Many struggle hanging in unhealthy
              relationships because they are looking for the higher meaning of it
              all--and try to make something work that is too badly broken to
              begin with. I believe that eckists are taught to be delusional more
              than any other thing and this is what they are "learning from the
              teachings!" LOL! Too bad they won't read Ford Johnson's
              book "Confessions of a God Seeker" so that a light bulb might be
              turned on in their muddled minds. It's really sad. This also applies
              to those former eckists who continue to cling to the "truths" they
              learned in eckankar--they still want to believe that they evolved
              because of those special eck teachings! The truth is (IMO) that they
              will not evolve until they let go of this delusional eck thinking--
              and until they accept the fact they were duped by the
              false/deceptive teachings in eckankar, these individuals will also
              continue to operate in a delusional state of consciousness
              and remain stuck, much like the eckists who remain trapped in
              eckankar right now.

              Happy Holidays to you too, and of course to everyone else who
              participates by posting and/or reading here!

              Mish

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh"
              <lgrif@m...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Mish:
              > Oh, I certainly agree that "confusing" and "confusion"
              make
              > up the heart of Eckankar. The dangerous thing is to "settle down"
              > (accept this), to become peaceful and content, carrying this nest
              of
              > emptines and meaninglessness inside you.
              > Incidentally, happy holidays to you and everyone on this
              > list.
              >
              > Leigh
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
              > <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Hi, Leigh!
              > >
              > > The word "confusing" is the key to keeping eckists in the org.
              > > Everything is kept mysterious and secret which creates the
              > > confusion. The confusion is justified and deemed okay because it
              > is
              > > just part of the teachings. When the chela advances, he will
              > > understand better. Yada, yada! The confusion is just an
              indication
              > > that the chela has not advanced enough to "know." So, this
              > validates
              > > the quite "normal" confusion which in turn makes the chela feel
              > that
              > > all is right with the teachings in eckankar. The confusion helps
              > to
              > > control those who question. As to Twitchell's books
              disappearing,
              > > well, truly eckists should wonder why they are not available
              now.
              > It
              > > would seem that Twitchell's total writings would be of great
              > > interest and important to the present day teachings in eckankar.
              > > Certainly something is "rotten in Denmark!"
              > >
              > > Mish
              >
            • ctecvie
              Hello Mish, ... *** Today, we met an eckist who has brought quite some members to Eckankar. He is confused, too, because he has been a member for 24 years now
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 18, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Hello Mish,

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi, Leigh!
                >
                > Proof of this confusion is readily seen in the posts by eckists on
                > the non-official eck chat sites--if you care to check out Chela
                >Chat
                > and Hu Chat.

                *** Today, we met an eckist who has brought quite some members to
                Eckankar. He is confused, too, because he has been a member for 24
                years now and really has done more than his share - but still no 5th
                initiation. The thing is that he isn't very complying to the
                guidelines, has never sent in any initiation reports and such. He
                knows that he doesn't fit and that this is why. He was excluded from
                vahana work by the resas. He said that some months ago, he had seen
                that a postering workshop was planned and asked himself why he was
                not asked because that was what he had been doing for 20 years or
                so. Well, he is still very much into the "higher/lower/master"
                stuff, but we have given him the website address for background
                information about Eckankar.

                > They seem to have a problem agreeing about what is
                > meant in the teachings! As for karma, eckists, instead of getting
                > rid of it, seem to rope more and more of it in, because they feel
                > they have to deal with certain situations/relationships instead of
                > saying "I pass." LOL! Many struggle hanging in unhealthy
                > relationships because they are looking for the higher meaning of
                >it
                > all--and try to make something work that is too badly broken to
                > begin with.

                *** That's the point - they think that they are resolving karma but
                instead are staying in unhealthy situations because they think it
                has to be that way. The power we have is to decide whether we want
                to stay or leave to look for other, better circumstances to learn
                what we have to learn. Of course we "run away" - but I firmly
                believe that this "running away" is very often very helpful. For me
                anyway, as this enabled me to eventually see that what I ran from
                was in fact the same problem every time. Had I stayed where I was, I
                never would have been able to realize this.

                >I believe that eckists are taught to be delusional more
                > than any other thing and this is what they are "learning from the
                > teachings!" LOL! Too bad they won't read Ford Johnson's
                > book "Confessions of a God Seeker" so that a light bulb might be
                > turned on in their muddled minds. It's really sad.

                *** The Eckist I spoke of wanted to know in one sentence what Ford's
                book was all about. No way to tell him in one sentence! It's even
                not possible to describe Eckankar in one sentence. I finally broke
                it down to "I can have all the love and protection I need without
                the mahanta".

                >This also applies
                > to those former eckists who continue to cling to the "truths" they
                > learned in eckankar--they still want to believe that they evolved
                > because of those special eck teachings! The truth is (IMO) that
                >they
                > will not evolve until they let go of this delusional eck thinking--
                > and until they accept the fact they were duped by the
                > false/deceptive teachings in eckankar, these individuals will also
                > continue to operate in a delusional state of consciousness
                > and remain stuck, much like the eckists who remain trapped in
                > eckankar right now.

                ***They are still stuck in that higher/lower thinking. Just as this
                Eckist said that a certain tincture he is making comes from
                the "highest and purest" source. I told him that it was highest and
                purest because his heart was in it. So weird, at least for me, to
                think that there is a "highest" out there whereas we can find it in
                our own heart if we are pure and honest!
                >
                > Happy Holidays to you too, and of course to everyone else who
                > participates by posting and/or reading here!

                *** Happy Holidays to all, too!
                Ingrid
              • prometheus_973
                Hi Mish, The problem that many Eckists have, with reading Ford s book Confessions, is that they are fearful of the book and believe that words which
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 18, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Mish,

                  The problem that many Eckists have, with reading Ford's
                  book "Confessions," is that they are fearful of the book and believe
                  that words which criticize Eckankar are negative. Therefore, why
                  would someone, an Eckist, that is so pure, positive, and spiritual
                  <smile> want to expose theirself to negativity? They forget,
                  however, that negativity surrounds them and all of us, and that one
                  should not deny it exists. Negativity (conflict) is a means to
                  personal and spiritual growth... is it not?

                  Many current Eckists who have "read" Confessions of a God Seeker
                  actually did a speed read because of their fear. They feared that
                  doubt would enter their minds and that Eckankar would not be able to
                  withstand the scruntiny of truth which they have denied seeing and
                  questioning over the years. Therefore, these Eckists (and some
                  former Eckists) did a "Paul Twitchell" and skimmed Confessions, but
                  did so with a closed or semi-closed mind. People, in general, are
                  fearful of change and of having comfortable delusions and
                  rationalizations shattered. Eckankar, and religion in general, is
                  like having your own private and indestructible "spiritual" security
                  blanket. Yours keeps you safe, it's always better than the next
                  person's, you are always farther along with a personal relationship
                  with the Inner (Whatever), or can see from a higher perspective...
                  right?! This is simply how our minds (and egos) work and there are
                  those who take advantage of this.

                  Paul Twitchell was not unique when we look at history. There are
                  thousands and thousands of con men and women doing their own unique
                  scam at any given moment! This has always been the case! Some of
                  these people even have good intentions, at times, but what they sell
                  is what they can see we all want and need. Is it any wonder that
                  both financial and spiritual security (peace of mind) is such big
                  business!

                  Happy Holidays Everyone!

                  Prometheus




                  mishmisha wrote:
                  Hi Leigh,
                  Proof of this confusion is readily seen in the posts by eckists on
                  the non-official eck chat sites--if you care to check out Chela Chat
                  and Hu Chat. They seem to have a problem agreeing about what is
                  meant in the teachings! As for karma, eckists, instead of getting
                  rid of it, seem to rope more and more of it in, because they feel
                  they have to deal with certain situations/relationships instead of
                  saying "I pass." LOL!

                  Many struggle hanging in unhealthy relationships because they are
                  looking for the higher meaning of it all--and try to make something
                  work that is too badly broken to begin with. I believe that eckists
                  are taught to be delusional more than any other thing and this is
                  what they are "learning from the teachings!" LOL!

                  Too bad they won't read Ford Johnson's book "Confessions of a God
                  Seeker" so that a light bulb might be turned on in their muddled
                  minds. It's really sad. This also applies to those former eckists
                  who continue to cling to the "truths" they learned in eckankar--they
                  still want to believe that they evolved because of those special eck
                  teachings!

                  The truth is (IMO) that they will not evolve until they let go of
                  this delusional eck thinking--and until they accept the fact they
                  were duped by the false/deceptive teachings in eckankar, these
                  individuals will also continue to operate in a delusional state of
                  consciousness and remain stuck, much like the eckists who remain
                  trapped in eckankar right now.

                  Happy Holidays to you too, and of course to everyone else who
                  participates by posting and/or reading here!

                  Mish
                • prometheus_973
                  Hi Ingrid, It seems that this Eckist doesn t understand his place in the hierarchy. Under the RESA structure one must be a team member and follow the rules
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 18, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Ingrid,
                    It seems that this Eckist doesn't understand his place in the
                    hierarchy. Under the RESA structure one must be a team member and
                    follow the rules (spoken and unspoken), know the Mahanta's mission,
                    but especially comply with the written guidelines. Does he know
                    there are even guidelines for postering? I was quite an enthusiastic
                    vahana at one time, but eventually mellowed when I continuously saw
                    the overwhelming flaws. How could such flaws exist in H.I. chelas
                    and the Eckankar org if this was the highest spiritual path in all
                    of the universes of Sugmad?! This was very confusing, didn't make
                    sense, and caused me a lot of conflict! This chela (a 4th?) will
                    never be trusted with a higher initiation if he cannot work within
                    or understand the RESA structure. The standards are much stricter
                    for today's Eckists than in the past. However, this is the big
                    problem with Eckankar... all of those old timer H.I.s that reject
                    the Guidelines! I don't blame them! Eckankar has become very
                    controlling, narrow of focus, and a top heavy business (religion)!
                    And, that glass ceiling of initiation (the 7th) is starting to show
                    more cracks! LOL!

                    Prometheus


                    Ingrid wrote:

                    Today, we met an eckist who has brought quite some members to
                    Eckankar. He is confused, too, because he has been a member for 24
                    years now and really has done more than his share - but still no 5th
                    initiation. The thing is that he isn't very complying to the
                    guidelines, has never sent in any initiation reports and such. He
                    knows that he doesn't fit and that this is why. He was excluded from
                    vahana work by the resas. He said that some months ago, he had seen
                    that a postering workshop was planned and asked himself why he was
                    not asked because that was what he had been doing for 20 years or
                    so. Well, he is still very much into the "higher/lower/master"
                    stuff, but we have given him the website address for background
                    information about Eckankar.

                    The Eckist I spoke of wanted to know in one sentence what Ford's
                    book was all about. No way to tell him in one sentence! It's even
                    not possible to describe Eckankar in one sentence. I finally broke
                    it down to "I can have all the love and protection I need without
                    the mahanta".

                    They are still stuck in that higher/lower thinking. Just as this
                    Eckist said that a certain tincture he is making comes from
                    the "highest and purest" source. I told him that it was highest and
                    purest because his heart was in it. So weird, at least for me, to
                    think that there is a "highest" out there whereas we can find it in
                    our own heart if we are pure and honest!

                    Happy Holidays to all, too!

                    Ingrid
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.