Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: No wonder Harold did a lot of editing!

Expand Messages
  • l2eigh
    And,why still use Stranger by the River and other books by PT? Hi Prometheus: It s not just this... why still publish books written by people who ve left
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 15, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      And,why still use "Stranger by the River" and other books by PT?


      Hi Prometheus:
      It's not just this... why still publish books written by
      people who've left Eckankar or who've been asked to leave (as in the
      case of Patti Simpson)? Whether you consided this practice disingenuous
      or worse it's certainly confusing, and should be questionable for
      that reason alone.

      Leigh
    • prometheus_973
      Hi Leigh, Actually I have looked at the Eckankar.org site and saw that there are only five Twitchell books listed for sale. The Shariyats 1 & 2, The Tiger s
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 15, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Leigh,
        Actually I have looked at the Eckankar.org site and saw that there
        are only five Twitchell books listed for sale. The Shariyats 1 & 2,
        The Tiger's Fang, Stranger by the River, and Eckankar The Key to
        Secret Worlds. I didn't include The newer Tiger's Fang comic book...
        which is probably a more accurate category for Twitch's
        manuscript! : )

        The other non-Klemp ECK books seem to be written by Mary Carroll
        Moore, Linda C. Anderson, and Debbie Johnson. So, it does seem like
        Klemp has been doing some house cleaning on a gradual basis as
        to "ween off" and Not to shock Eckists too much.

        The purpose in keeping "Stranger by the River" is that it helps to
        verify (supposedly) the existance of Rebazar Tarzs. And, RT
        validates Twitch who validates Gross who validates Klemp and then RT
        re-validates Klemp again!

        Plus, let's not forget that the Holy Books of Eckankar, the
        Shariyats, are written by Twitchell. Klemp, and those who may come
        after him, can only add to these with their own Shariyats or edit
        Twitchell's ... more. However, I don't see it worth the effort to
        write more Shariyats when Eckists seem fine with reading between the
        lines to find their own version of (inner) truth regardless of what
        Klemp tries to sell them on the outer.

        Yes, Eckists should question HK's book policy, but the sounds of
        silence pervade as Eckists quietly march in step along a very long
        and very winding road. LOL!

        Prometheus


        l2eigh wrote:

        And,why still use "Stranger by the River" and other books by PT?


        Hi Prometheus:
        It's not just this... why still publish books written by
        people who've left Eckankar or who've been asked to leave (as in the
        case of Patti Simpson)? Whether you consided this practice
        disingenuous or worse it's certainly confusing, and should be
        questionable for that reason alone.

        Leigh
      • mishmisha9
        Hi, Leigh! The word confusing is the key to keeping eckists in the org. Everything is kept mysterious and secret which creates the confusion. The confusion
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 16, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi, Leigh!

          The word "confusing" is the key to keeping eckists in the org.
          Everything is kept mysterious and secret which creates the
          confusion. The confusion is justified and deemed okay because it is
          just part of the teachings. When the chela advances, he will
          understand better. Yada, yada! The confusion is just an indication
          that the chela has not advanced enough to "know." So, this validates
          the quite "normal" confusion which in turn makes the chela feel that
          all is right with the teachings in eckankar. The confusion helps to
          control those who question. As to Twitchell's books disappearing,
          well, truly eckists should wonder why they are not available now. It
          would seem that Twitchell's total writings would be of great
          interest and important to the present day teachings in eckankar.
          Certainly something is "rotten in Denmark!"

          Mish

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh"
          <lgrif@m...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > And,why still use "Stranger by the River" and other books by PT?
          >
          >
          > Hi Prometheus:
          > It's not just this... why still publish books
          written by
          > people who've left Eckankar or who've been asked to leave (as in
          the
          > case of Patti Simpson)? Whether you consided this practice
          disingenuous
          > or worse it's certainly confusing, and should be questionable
          for
          > that reason alone.
          >
          > Leigh
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Mish, It does seem strange that the founder of Eckankar (and modern day prophet/savior), Paul Twitchell, doesn t have all of his books available for sale
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 16, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Mish,

            It does seem strange that the founder of Eckankar (and modern day
            prophet/savior), Paul Twitchell, doesn't have all of his books
            available for sale from the religion that he created! Paul must be
            spinnibg in his grave, or was he cremated? How disappointed he must
            be in little Harry Klemp! All of that Eck donation money for guilted
            staircases and such, but none left to reprint the historical
            beginnings and wisdom of such an advanced spiritual path! <sigh>

            What could be the reasons for Not offering these books? Is it true
            that some of the Paul's early writings might Not "fit" perfectly
            with today's consciousness? But wouldn't Christians want to read
            every word that Jesus had spoken?! Then again, maybe some Christian
            leaders wouldn't want every thought and word of Jesus's shared with
            the world. What would these leaders fear? That the wisdom wouldn't
            apply to the modern world or that people would just be confused by
            unfiltered and unedited wisdom. Maybe the thought would be, Why
            create more confusion for people? Maybe little Harry is thinking,
            Why create more confusion for Eckists? Actually, Klemp is saving
            Eckists from the truth about Twitchell, and the scam of Eckankar.
            For Eckists, ignorance really is bliss! Besides, little Harry would
            be out of a high paying job with great perks if Eckists figured it
            all out too soon!

            Prometheus



            mishmisha wrote:

            The word "confusing" is the key to keeping eckists in the org.
            Everything is kept mysterious and secret which creates the
            confusion. The confusion is justified and deemed okay because it is
            just part of the teachings. When the chela advances, he will
            understand better. Yada, yada! The confusion is just an indication
            that the chela has not advanced enough to "know." So, this validates
            the quite "normal" confusion which in turn makes the chela feel that
            all is right with the teachings in eckankar. The confusion helps to
            control those who question. As to Twitchell's books disappearing,
            well, truly eckists should wonder why they are not available now. It
            would seem that Twitchell's total writings would be of great
            interest and important to the present day teachings in eckankar.
            Certainly something is "rotten in Denmark!"

            Mish
          • ctecvie
            Hello Prometheus, ... *** Little Harry wanted the temple to last till eternity - so maybe he thought some gold couldn t hurt! Perhaps he wanted to set a
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 17, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Prometheus,

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Mish,
              >
              > It does seem strange that the founder of Eckankar (and modern day
              > prophet/savior), Paul Twitchell, doesn't have all of his books
              > available for sale from the religion that he created! Paul must be
              > spinnibg in his grave, or was he cremated? How disappointed he
              >must
              > be in little Harry Klemp! All of that Eck donation money for
              >guilted
              > staircases and such, but none left to reprint the historical
              > beginnings and wisdom of such an advanced spiritual path! <sigh>

              *** Little Harry wanted the temple to last till eternity - so maybe
              he thought some gold couldn't hurt! Perhaps he wanted to set a
              monument for himself, in stone, marble, gold and the like! This is
              better as books because books can get lost quite easily -
              discontinue them, burn them, discredit them ... whatever.

              >
              > What could be the reasons for Not offering these books? Is it true
              > that some of the Paul's early writings might Not "fit" perfectly
              > with today's consciousness? But wouldn't Christians want to read
              > every word that Jesus had spoken?! Then again, maybe some
              >Christian
              > leaders wouldn't want every thought and word of Jesus's shared
              >with
              > the world. What would these leaders fear? That the wisdom wouldn't
              > apply to the modern world or that people would just be confused by
              > unfiltered and unedited wisdom. Maybe the thought would be, Why
              > create more confusion for people? Maybe little Harry is thinking,
              > Why create more confusion for Eckists? Actually, Klemp is saving
              > Eckists from the truth about Twitchell, and the scam of Eckankar.
              > For Eckists, ignorance really is bliss! Besides, little Harry
              >would
              > be out of a high paying job with great perks if Eckists figured it
              > all out too soon!

              Yeah - I think PT said things that would not be consistent with the
              course Eckankar is steering today - and this could be embarrassing
              for the leaders (by the way is it Little Harry Himself or rather
              Peter Skelskey who is steering the Eckankar boat?). And imagine how
              embarrassing it would be if suddenly the original version
              of "Letters to Gail" came up! LOL!

              Ingrid
            • l2eigh
              Hi Mish: Oh, I certainly agree that confusing and confusion make up the heart of Eckankar. The dangerous thing is to settle down (accept this), to become
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 17, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Mish:
                Oh, I certainly agree that "confusing" and "confusion" make
                up the heart of Eckankar. The dangerous thing is to "settle down"
                (accept this), to become peaceful and content, carrying this nest of
                emptines and meaninglessness inside you.
                Incidentally, happy holidays to you and everyone on this
                list.

                Leigh



                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi, Leigh!
                >
                > The word "confusing" is the key to keeping eckists in the org.
                > Everything is kept mysterious and secret which creates the
                > confusion. The confusion is justified and deemed okay because it
                is
                > just part of the teachings. When the chela advances, he will
                > understand better. Yada, yada! The confusion is just an indication
                > that the chela has not advanced enough to "know." So, this
                validates
                > the quite "normal" confusion which in turn makes the chela feel
                that
                > all is right with the teachings in eckankar. The confusion helps
                to
                > control those who question. As to Twitchell's books disappearing,
                > well, truly eckists should wonder why they are not available now.
                It
                > would seem that Twitchell's total writings would be of great
                > interest and important to the present day teachings in eckankar.
                > Certainly something is "rotten in Denmark!"
                >
                > Mish
              • prometheus_973
                Hi Ingrid and All, It seems Klemp can do and say anything without having it questioned by Eckists. But, that s what has always made Eckankar a cult! Klemp
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 17, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Ingrid and All,
                  It seems Klemp can do and say anything without having it questioned
                  by Eckists. But, that's what has always made Eckankar a cult! Klemp
                  eliminates and edits Twitchell's original material while only
                  sharing shallow, common place, embellished, or contradicting
                  accounts of perceived "spiritual" wisdom.

                  In Klemp's 2005 EWWS talk he states, "Enthusiasm is infectious.
                  People respond. Missionary work is fun." Yet this is from a person
                  who has been employed by Eckankar for 35 years! It's been part of
                  his paid job to do missionary work. So once again... talk is a cheap
                  commodity for Little Harry. Besides, aren't Eckists supposed to be
                  neither for or against anything? Does "enthusiasm" depict detachment
                  or contentment? Or, do Eckists just demonstrate or act "as if" they
                  have enthusiasm, as well as, love in their hearts?!

                  It's funny that Klemp found out that some people at the local Unity
                  Church referred to him as "Big" Harry, and he in turn flipped that
                  to compare himself to the mythological coal mining hero of "Big"
                  John. But I see him more as the mythological thief of "Little" John
                  who helped Robin Hood to rob the rich and give to the poor. Instead,
                  however, the irony is that Klemp is not a physically large or strong
                  man as Little John was, and that Klemp steals from the poor Eckists
                  to make himself rich! Therefore, I have thus crowned Shree Klemp as
                  Little Harry!



                  Ingrid wrote:

                  Hello Prometheus,

                  Prometheus wrote:
                  It does seem strange that the founder of Eckankar (and modern day
                  prophet/savior), Paul Twitchell, doesn't have all of his books
                  available for sale from the religion that he created! Paul must be
                  spinnibg in his grave, or was he cremated? How disappointed he must
                  be in little Harry Klemp! All of that Eck donation money for guilted
                  staircases and such, but none left to reprint the historical
                  beginnings and wisdom of such an advanced spiritual path! <sigh>

                  Ingrid: Little Harry wanted the temple to last till eternity - so
                  maybe he thought some gold couldn't hurt! Perhaps he wanted to set a
                  monument for himself, in stone, marble, gold and the like! This is
                  better as books because books can get lost quite easily -
                  discontinue them, burn them, discredit them ... whatever.



                  *****I think your're correct! Klemp built a monument to himself! How
                  could any future LEM/Mahanta deny, edit, or delete this? Hmmmmm.
                  Actually, in time Klemp's material, reputation, and works could be
                  seen in its true light and easily be reduced to nothing of substance.




                  Prometheus: What could be the reasons for Not offering these books?
                  Is it true that some of the Paul's early writings might Not "fit"
                  perfectly with today's consciousness? But wouldn't Christians want
                  to read every word that Jesus had spoken?! Then again, maybe some
                  Christian leaders wouldn't want every thought and word of Jesus's
                  shared with the world. What would these leaders fear? That the
                  wisdom wouldn't apply to the modern world or that people would just
                  be confused by unfiltered and unedited wisdom. Maybe the thought
                  would be, Why create more confusion for people? Maybe little Harry
                  is thinking, Why create more confusion for Eckists? Actually, Klemp
                  is saving Eckists from the truth about Twitchell, and the scam of
                  Eckankar. For Eckists, ignorance really is bliss! Besides, little
                  Harry would be out of a high paying job with great perks if Eckists
                  figured it all out too soon!

                  Ingrid: Yeah - I think PT said things that would not be consistent
                  with the course Eckankar is steering today - and this could be
                  embarrassing for the leaders (by the way is it Little Harry Himself
                  or rather Peter Skelskey who is steering the Eckankar boat?). And
                  imagine how embarrassing it would be if suddenly the original
                  version of "Letters to Gail" came up! LOL!


                  *****It could be that Joan is doing more steering than Peter! Peter
                  is just waiting in the wings and being a yes man and lap dog for
                  now. The question for Little Harry and Joan is, Who can be trusted
                  Not to do to Klemp that Klemp did to Gross?!

                  Prometheus
                • mishmisha9
                  Hi, Leigh! Proof of this confusion is readily seen in the posts by eckists on the non-official eck chat sites--if you care to check out Chela Chat and Hu Chat.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 17, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi, Leigh!

                    Proof of this confusion is readily seen in the posts by eckists on
                    the non-official eck chat sites--if you care to check out Chela Chat
                    and Hu Chat. They seem to have a problem agreeing about what is
                    meant in the teachings! As for karma, eckists, instead of getting
                    rid of it, seem to rope more and more of it in, because they feel
                    they have to deal with certain situations/relationships instead of
                    saying "I pass." LOL! Many struggle hanging in unhealthy
                    relationships because they are looking for the higher meaning of it
                    all--and try to make something work that is too badly broken to
                    begin with. I believe that eckists are taught to be delusional more
                    than any other thing and this is what they are "learning from the
                    teachings!" LOL! Too bad they won't read Ford Johnson's
                    book "Confessions of a God Seeker" so that a light bulb might be
                    turned on in their muddled minds. It's really sad. This also applies
                    to those former eckists who continue to cling to the "truths" they
                    learned in eckankar--they still want to believe that they evolved
                    because of those special eck teachings! The truth is (IMO) that they
                    will not evolve until they let go of this delusional eck thinking--
                    and until they accept the fact they were duped by the
                    false/deceptive teachings in eckankar, these individuals will also
                    continue to operate in a delusional state of consciousness
                    and remain stuck, much like the eckists who remain trapped in
                    eckankar right now.

                    Happy Holidays to you too, and of course to everyone else who
                    participates by posting and/or reading here!

                    Mish

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "l2eigh"
                    <lgrif@m...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Mish:
                    > Oh, I certainly agree that "confusing" and "confusion"
                    make
                    > up the heart of Eckankar. The dangerous thing is to "settle down"
                    > (accept this), to become peaceful and content, carrying this nest
                    of
                    > emptines and meaninglessness inside you.
                    > Incidentally, happy holidays to you and everyone on this
                    > list.
                    >
                    > Leigh
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                    > <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi, Leigh!
                    > >
                    > > The word "confusing" is the key to keeping eckists in the org.
                    > > Everything is kept mysterious and secret which creates the
                    > > confusion. The confusion is justified and deemed okay because it
                    > is
                    > > just part of the teachings. When the chela advances, he will
                    > > understand better. Yada, yada! The confusion is just an
                    indication
                    > > that the chela has not advanced enough to "know." So, this
                    > validates
                    > > the quite "normal" confusion which in turn makes the chela feel
                    > that
                    > > all is right with the teachings in eckankar. The confusion helps
                    > to
                    > > control those who question. As to Twitchell's books
                    disappearing,
                    > > well, truly eckists should wonder why they are not available
                    now.
                    > It
                    > > would seem that Twitchell's total writings would be of great
                    > > interest and important to the present day teachings in eckankar.
                    > > Certainly something is "rotten in Denmark!"
                    > >
                    > > Mish
                    >
                  • ctecvie
                    Hello Mish, ... *** Today, we met an eckist who has brought quite some members to Eckankar. He is confused, too, because he has been a member for 24 years now
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 18, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hello Mish,

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                      <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi, Leigh!
                      >
                      > Proof of this confusion is readily seen in the posts by eckists on
                      > the non-official eck chat sites--if you care to check out Chela
                      >Chat
                      > and Hu Chat.

                      *** Today, we met an eckist who has brought quite some members to
                      Eckankar. He is confused, too, because he has been a member for 24
                      years now and really has done more than his share - but still no 5th
                      initiation. The thing is that he isn't very complying to the
                      guidelines, has never sent in any initiation reports and such. He
                      knows that he doesn't fit and that this is why. He was excluded from
                      vahana work by the resas. He said that some months ago, he had seen
                      that a postering workshop was planned and asked himself why he was
                      not asked because that was what he had been doing for 20 years or
                      so. Well, he is still very much into the "higher/lower/master"
                      stuff, but we have given him the website address for background
                      information about Eckankar.

                      > They seem to have a problem agreeing about what is
                      > meant in the teachings! As for karma, eckists, instead of getting
                      > rid of it, seem to rope more and more of it in, because they feel
                      > they have to deal with certain situations/relationships instead of
                      > saying "I pass." LOL! Many struggle hanging in unhealthy
                      > relationships because they are looking for the higher meaning of
                      >it
                      > all--and try to make something work that is too badly broken to
                      > begin with.

                      *** That's the point - they think that they are resolving karma but
                      instead are staying in unhealthy situations because they think it
                      has to be that way. The power we have is to decide whether we want
                      to stay or leave to look for other, better circumstances to learn
                      what we have to learn. Of course we "run away" - but I firmly
                      believe that this "running away" is very often very helpful. For me
                      anyway, as this enabled me to eventually see that what I ran from
                      was in fact the same problem every time. Had I stayed where I was, I
                      never would have been able to realize this.

                      >I believe that eckists are taught to be delusional more
                      > than any other thing and this is what they are "learning from the
                      > teachings!" LOL! Too bad they won't read Ford Johnson's
                      > book "Confessions of a God Seeker" so that a light bulb might be
                      > turned on in their muddled minds. It's really sad.

                      *** The Eckist I spoke of wanted to know in one sentence what Ford's
                      book was all about. No way to tell him in one sentence! It's even
                      not possible to describe Eckankar in one sentence. I finally broke
                      it down to "I can have all the love and protection I need without
                      the mahanta".

                      >This also applies
                      > to those former eckists who continue to cling to the "truths" they
                      > learned in eckankar--they still want to believe that they evolved
                      > because of those special eck teachings! The truth is (IMO) that
                      >they
                      > will not evolve until they let go of this delusional eck thinking--
                      > and until they accept the fact they were duped by the
                      > false/deceptive teachings in eckankar, these individuals will also
                      > continue to operate in a delusional state of consciousness
                      > and remain stuck, much like the eckists who remain trapped in
                      > eckankar right now.

                      ***They are still stuck in that higher/lower thinking. Just as this
                      Eckist said that a certain tincture he is making comes from
                      the "highest and purest" source. I told him that it was highest and
                      purest because his heart was in it. So weird, at least for me, to
                      think that there is a "highest" out there whereas we can find it in
                      our own heart if we are pure and honest!
                      >
                      > Happy Holidays to you too, and of course to everyone else who
                      > participates by posting and/or reading here!

                      *** Happy Holidays to all, too!
                      Ingrid
                    • prometheus_973
                      Hi Mish, The problem that many Eckists have, with reading Ford s book Confessions, is that they are fearful of the book and believe that words which
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 18, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Mish,

                        The problem that many Eckists have, with reading Ford's
                        book "Confessions," is that they are fearful of the book and believe
                        that words which criticize Eckankar are negative. Therefore, why
                        would someone, an Eckist, that is so pure, positive, and spiritual
                        <smile> want to expose theirself to negativity? They forget,
                        however, that negativity surrounds them and all of us, and that one
                        should not deny it exists. Negativity (conflict) is a means to
                        personal and spiritual growth... is it not?

                        Many current Eckists who have "read" Confessions of a God Seeker
                        actually did a speed read because of their fear. They feared that
                        doubt would enter their minds and that Eckankar would not be able to
                        withstand the scruntiny of truth which they have denied seeing and
                        questioning over the years. Therefore, these Eckists (and some
                        former Eckists) did a "Paul Twitchell" and skimmed Confessions, but
                        did so with a closed or semi-closed mind. People, in general, are
                        fearful of change and of having comfortable delusions and
                        rationalizations shattered. Eckankar, and religion in general, is
                        like having your own private and indestructible "spiritual" security
                        blanket. Yours keeps you safe, it's always better than the next
                        person's, you are always farther along with a personal relationship
                        with the Inner (Whatever), or can see from a higher perspective...
                        right?! This is simply how our minds (and egos) work and there are
                        those who take advantage of this.

                        Paul Twitchell was not unique when we look at history. There are
                        thousands and thousands of con men and women doing their own unique
                        scam at any given moment! This has always been the case! Some of
                        these people even have good intentions, at times, but what they sell
                        is what they can see we all want and need. Is it any wonder that
                        both financial and spiritual security (peace of mind) is such big
                        business!

                        Happy Holidays Everyone!

                        Prometheus




                        mishmisha wrote:
                        Hi Leigh,
                        Proof of this confusion is readily seen in the posts by eckists on
                        the non-official eck chat sites--if you care to check out Chela Chat
                        and Hu Chat. They seem to have a problem agreeing about what is
                        meant in the teachings! As for karma, eckists, instead of getting
                        rid of it, seem to rope more and more of it in, because they feel
                        they have to deal with certain situations/relationships instead of
                        saying "I pass." LOL!

                        Many struggle hanging in unhealthy relationships because they are
                        looking for the higher meaning of it all--and try to make something
                        work that is too badly broken to begin with. I believe that eckists
                        are taught to be delusional more than any other thing and this is
                        what they are "learning from the teachings!" LOL!

                        Too bad they won't read Ford Johnson's book "Confessions of a God
                        Seeker" so that a light bulb might be turned on in their muddled
                        minds. It's really sad. This also applies to those former eckists
                        who continue to cling to the "truths" they learned in eckankar--they
                        still want to believe that they evolved because of those special eck
                        teachings!

                        The truth is (IMO) that they will not evolve until they let go of
                        this delusional eck thinking--and until they accept the fact they
                        were duped by the false/deceptive teachings in eckankar, these
                        individuals will also continue to operate in a delusional state of
                        consciousness and remain stuck, much like the eckists who remain
                        trapped in eckankar right now.

                        Happy Holidays to you too, and of course to everyone else who
                        participates by posting and/or reading here!

                        Mish
                      • prometheus_973
                        Hi Ingrid, It seems that this Eckist doesn t understand his place in the hierarchy. Under the RESA structure one must be a team member and follow the rules
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 18, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Ingrid,
                          It seems that this Eckist doesn't understand his place in the
                          hierarchy. Under the RESA structure one must be a team member and
                          follow the rules (spoken and unspoken), know the Mahanta's mission,
                          but especially comply with the written guidelines. Does he know
                          there are even guidelines for postering? I was quite an enthusiastic
                          vahana at one time, but eventually mellowed when I continuously saw
                          the overwhelming flaws. How could such flaws exist in H.I. chelas
                          and the Eckankar org if this was the highest spiritual path in all
                          of the universes of Sugmad?! This was very confusing, didn't make
                          sense, and caused me a lot of conflict! This chela (a 4th?) will
                          never be trusted with a higher initiation if he cannot work within
                          or understand the RESA structure. The standards are much stricter
                          for today's Eckists than in the past. However, this is the big
                          problem with Eckankar... all of those old timer H.I.s that reject
                          the Guidelines! I don't blame them! Eckankar has become very
                          controlling, narrow of focus, and a top heavy business (religion)!
                          And, that glass ceiling of initiation (the 7th) is starting to show
                          more cracks! LOL!

                          Prometheus


                          Ingrid wrote:

                          Today, we met an eckist who has brought quite some members to
                          Eckankar. He is confused, too, because he has been a member for 24
                          years now and really has done more than his share - but still no 5th
                          initiation. The thing is that he isn't very complying to the
                          guidelines, has never sent in any initiation reports and such. He
                          knows that he doesn't fit and that this is why. He was excluded from
                          vahana work by the resas. He said that some months ago, he had seen
                          that a postering workshop was planned and asked himself why he was
                          not asked because that was what he had been doing for 20 years or
                          so. Well, he is still very much into the "higher/lower/master"
                          stuff, but we have given him the website address for background
                          information about Eckankar.

                          The Eckist I spoke of wanted to know in one sentence what Ford's
                          book was all about. No way to tell him in one sentence! It's even
                          not possible to describe Eckankar in one sentence. I finally broke
                          it down to "I can have all the love and protection I need without
                          the mahanta".

                          They are still stuck in that higher/lower thinking. Just as this
                          Eckist said that a certain tincture he is making comes from
                          the "highest and purest" source. I told him that it was highest and
                          purest because his heart was in it. So weird, at least for me, to
                          think that there is a "highest" out there whereas we can find it in
                          our own heart if we are pure and honest!

                          Happy Holidays to all, too!

                          Ingrid
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.