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Re: ZOHAR AND SEPHER more Eck fiction by Twitchell

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  • Freefrom
    Hello Misha, (Hello all) I see what you mean about how honesty is really the easier road in that you just feel better. It takes a lot of effort really to be
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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      Hello Misha, (Hello all)

      I see what you mean about how honesty is really the easier road in
      that you just feel better. It takes a lot of effort really to be
      dishonest, IMO. That is why down through history the tyrants and
      psychopaths usually end up crashing and burning. In some cases they
      may just get tired of the false facade and it is such a relief to
      finally just admit to their lies. Many just become grossly insane.
      (how punny! LOL) Some do change and choose a path of honesty, although
      it is sometimes easier said than done. A lot of it depends on our life
      experiences and how we have been conditioned to behave or believe. I
      read somewhere that a true spirituality or just living the good life,
      involves a series of unmasking or openning to our true self as we are
      in process. Unfortunately, IMO, there are external cultural
      circumstances that can make the way of honesty more difficult. That is
      part of why we choose to be anonymous in this group, but this also
      allows us to be more honest. Well, now I'm starting to feel like I'm
      rambling.

      This group is really turning out well. I really am grateful for all
      the insightful posts from everyone, and the research and discussion.
      This kind of exchange of ideas etc. is so helpful.

      Freefrom
      ***************


      Freefrom: "It takes guts and courage to be honest."

      Mish: You know I think we BELIEVE "it takes guts and courage to be
      honest." But in truth, it is the much easier road to take! 1.
      Standing up and admitting a mistake often surprises people and they
      appreciate the honesty, so it is the best way to diffuse a
      misunderstanding or an error in behavior, etc. 2. For myself, I feel
      much better being honest than trying to live a lie!

      Freefrom: "Those who stay with eckankar are still stuck in the herd
      mentality, like sheep. It's a kind of self-deception and false
      security."

      Mish: Looking for security in our beliefs or even trying to find a
      base for our spiritual beliefs, yes, we can end up with the "herd
      mentality." And in eckankar, if you weren't a sheep to begin with,
      you become exactly that with all the fears and controls that keep
      chelas manipulated and trapped in the org! One gets in so deep that
      one fears leaving, and will fight to the bitter end to hold onto the
      brass ring! : )


      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi, Freefrom and All!
      >
      > Good posts on this topic. Freefrom, you have really stated it
      > succinctly and zoned in on the key reasons people are drawn into
      > such deceptions as in Eckankar!
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
      > <eckchains@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > LOL Yes, I agree. It's the old, it's too absurd to be true, so
      > > therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this
      > > stuff up? No one would be so dishonest as to just make all of this
      > > stuff up, right? Wrong. Let's face it, the ability to lie and
      > act "as if" is a very human trait.
      >
      > Mish: It's called being creative and imaginative! LOL! Dreams are
      > real, etc. Dreams can be real, but yet we must discern and
      > discriminate in figuring out what is garbage and what is not.
      > Eckists seem to want to "live" their dreams, and will make decisions
      > solely based on what they "perceive" on the inner. Well, one must be
      > careful here . . .
      > The problem with falling for dishonest people's spills is that we
      > want to believe that people are truthful and honest at heart and
      > would not be out to take advantage of us or cause us harm. A person
      > like PT probably thought that his lies would not be that harmful
      > (criminal) to those he duped, so why not? Big lie vs. little lie;
      > big harm vs. little harm--and of course, if people are dumb/foolish
      > enough to believe this crap, well why not--it is the listener's
      > responsibility to not be deceived, etc.
      >
      >snip
    • prometheus_973
      Garbage in garbage out... should be the motto for Eckists! When one has lied and stretched the truth since childhood, as Twitchell had, there is little
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 2, 2005
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        Garbage in garbage out... should be the motto for Eckists! When one
        has lied and "stretched the truth" since childhood, as Twitchell
        had, there is little chance or hope for a change or improvement in
        either the deviant behaviour or lack of ethics. Lying becomes both a
        game (to bolster ego) and an addiction. Eckists should ask
        themselves if some of Twitchell's distortions and embellishments of
        truth have (unknowingly to them) polluted the base foundation of
        their Eck belief system. This is probably why Eckists (even some
        former Eckists) are having difficulties and conflicts within and
        without the Eckankar hierarchy. The subconscious mind, as well as
        Soul, recognize the contradictions, distortions, and the control
        methods used in the Eck literature and by Klemp. This is why Eckists
        have to force themselves, through the fear, guilt, and uneasy
        thoughts and feelings to act and speak as they're told.

        Prometheus
        p.s. I found both your posts very interesting and informative.



        eckchains wrote:

        Hello Misha, (Hello all)

        I see what you mean about how honesty is really the easier road in
        that you just feel better. It takes a lot of effort really to be
        dishonest, IMO. That is why down through history the tyrants and
        psychopaths usually end up crashing and burning. In some cases they
        may just get tired of the false facade and it is such a relief to
        finally just admit to their lies. Many just become grossly insane.
        (how punny! LOL) Some do change and choose a path of honesty,
        although it is sometimes easier said than done. A lot of it depends
        on our life experiences and how we have been conditioned to behave
        or believe. I read somewhere that a true spirituality or just living
        the good life, involves a series of unmasking or openning to our
        true self as we are in process. Unfortunately, IMO, there are
        external cultural circumstances that can make the way of honesty
        more difficult. That is part of why we choose to be anonymous in
        this group, but this also allows us to be more honest. Well, now I'm
        starting to feel like I'm rambling.

        This group is really turning out well. I really am grateful for all
        the insightful posts from everyone, and the research and discussion.
        This kind of exchange of ideas etc. is so helpful.

        Freefrom
        ***************


        Freefrom: "It takes guts and courage to be honest."

        Mish: You know I think we BELIEVE "it takes guts and courage to be
        honest." But in truth, it is the much easier road to take! 1.
        Standing up and admitting a mistake often surprises people and they
        appreciate the honesty, so it is the best way to diffuse a
        misunderstanding or an error in behavior, etc. 2. For myself, I feel
        much better being honest than trying to live a lie!

        Freefrom: "Those who stay with eckankar are still stuck in the herd
        mentality, like sheep. It's a kind of self-deception and false
        security."

        Mish: Looking for security in our beliefs or even trying to find a
        base for our spiritual beliefs, yes, we can end up with the "herd
        mentality." And in eckankar, if you weren't a sheep to begin with,
        you become exactly that with all the fears and controls that keep
        chelas manipulated and trapped in the org! One gets in so deep that
        one fears leaving, and will fight to the bitter end to hold onto the
        brass ring! : )


        mishmisha wrote:

        Hi, Freefrom and All!

        Good posts on this topic. Freefrom, you have really stated it
        succinctly and zoned in on the key reasons people are drawn into
        such deceptions as in Eckankar!

        "Freefrom" eckchains wrote:

        LOL Yes, I agree. It's the old, it's too absurd to be true, so
        therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this
        stuff up? No one would be so dishonest as to just make all of this
        stuff up, right? Wrong. Let's face it, the ability to lie and
        act "as if" is a very human trait.

        Mish: It's called being creative and imaginative! LOL! Dreams are
        real, etc. Dreams can be real, but yet we must discern and
        discriminate in figuring out what is garbage and what is not.
        Eckists seem to want to "live" their dreams, and will make decisions
        solely based on what they "perceive" on the inner. Well, one must be
        careful here . . . The problem with falling for dishonest people's
        spills is that we want to believe that people are truthful and
        honest at heart and would not be out to take advantage of us or
        cause us harm. A person like PT probably thought that his lies would
        not be that harmful (criminal) to those he duped, so why not? Big
        lie vs. little lie; big harm vs. little harm--and of course, if
        people are dumb/foolish enough to believe this crap, well why not--
        it is the listener's responsibility to not be deceived, etc.

        snip
      • l2eigh
        Hi Prometheus: That s a good piece of detective work. The Sepher/Zohar People, Sephiroth/Zohar (Spendor) one. But we re also looking at a couple of individual
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 2, 2005
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          Hi Prometheus:
          That's a good piece of detective work. The Sepher/Zohar
          People, Sephiroth/Zohar (Spendor) one. But we're also looking at a
          couple of individual trees and missing the forest, here. Sepher,
          Sephiroth, are cognates from the same root - sep, or sept - where our
          word "seven" comes from also. Thr larger issue is that this is all
          astral plane b.s. from the classical formula. That is, the astral
          plane has seven levels, planes, or divisions in it. This goes WAY
          back (originally) to sun worship (sunlight, when it's broken down in
          the atmosphere by water (rain in the distance) or through the
          convention of a prism, breaks down into the seven wavelengths that
          compose it. Red, orange, yellow, green, indigo, blue, violet). The
          cabala is pure astral plane b.s. used in the conventional way to try
          to make of something of "God" or explain flux. This gets even more
          involved when you go beyond the conventional delusion of "jivatma"
          to "atma", "paramatma", and "adiatma". The "golden wisdom" Eckankar
          uses and is keyed into is pure imagination. The "gold" color always
          indicates imagination.
          The thing is, it's all nonsense. All of this kind of
          stuff but has been used over time by mankind to give itself a
          collective purpose, develop cultures, and so on.

          Leigh


          - In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
          <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi L2eigh,
          >
          > I have to agree that this could be a factor at times. On these
          Zohar
          > and Sepher examples, however, I'm thinking that Twitch was in a
          rush
          > to create new material for his scam and used the same source
          > material for both. This is why we can see a relationship to the two
          > fabrications.
          >
          > On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with us and did
          > this as a game of sorts. Twitch was clever and egotistical, and
          this
          > might have been his way of having the last laugh on those followers
          > and critics who were more educated (Ph.Ds).
          >
          > Also, Twitch might have assumed that no one else would have done
          the
          > research that he had done and would never find his source material
          > or see the correlation.
          >
          > Another factor is, Why would anyone Not beleive him? Why would
          > Twitch lie about Rebazar Tarzs or the rest of it? Hmmmmmm. So,
          maybe
          > Twitch did consciously use obscure parts of anything and everything
          > and redefined it to suit his purpose at the time.
          >
          > And, it does seem like Twitch was a compulsive liar as well! After
          > awhile his mind became so deluded that he probably couldn't even
          > decipher any real truth for himself. It seems like the double dupe
          > was doubled with delusion! It's no wonder that Eckists find most of
          > this confusing and complex and decide to just surrender their minds
          > and wills to the Klempster.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          >
          > "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:
          >
          > Hi Prometheus:
          > In your post to Mish you indicate how the mind produces views for
          us
          > out of stuff we've crammed into it. Don't you think J.P.T. was
          > falling for this as well? This Zohar/Sephiroth, Zohar/Sepher thing
          > seems to be a perfect example. So often in the past six years I've
          > seen people expressing the view that a lot of the junk was
          > consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're talking
          > about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more often
          > (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a case of
          > someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at them to
          > experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First they cram
          > their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as best it
          > can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical review !
          >
          > Leigh
          >
          > Prometheus wrote:
          >
          > The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell's scam. . . if only
          > Eckists would really read it and do the research! In "The Path of
          > the Masters" (Twitchell's primary resource book) on pages 161-168
          is
          > a very interesting discussion of the Kabbalah. "The En Soph,
          > therefore, was compelled to create the world in an indirect manner
          > by ten emanations from the infinite light which he was, and in
          which
          > he dwelt. These ten emanations are the ten Sephiroth, or Splendors
          > of the Infinite One... each of these Sephiroth was represented by a
          > Divine name and by an Angelic name... During the middle ages exiled
          > Jewry kept itself alive by various mystical interpretations of its
          > mission and destiny as expressed in a vast Kabbalistic literature,
          > which ultimately found its most unified, most perfect expression in
          > the Zohar, called the 'Book of Splendor.' This book did something
          > which even the Bible and Talmud had ignored. It discovered for the
          > materialistic Jew a new and hitherto unknown Kingdom: the Kingdom
          of
          > the soul."
          >
          > Notice the words "Zohar" and "Sephiroth." Now let's look at the
          > Eckankar Lexicon.
          >
          > "Zohar, the. ZOH-hahr A future ROOT RACE who will come from a far
          > distant planet to colonize the world after the destruction in the
          > twenty-first and twenty-second centuries, but they will fail and
          > after several centuries will withdraw. See also Sepher."[pg. 243]
          >
          > "Sepher. SEHP-hehr The ECK Master who will be responsible for the
          > spiritual welfare of the Zohar, the ROOT RACE who will colonize ..."
          > [pg. 187]
          >
          > So, I think that we can all see how Twitch created another "Eck
          > Master" Seph(er) and a new root race (Zohar) to go with him.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Leigh, Eckankar s take on the Tisra Til and the whole chakra thing is Astral too! I was looking at another part of The Path of the Masters and saw where
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 3, 2005
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            Hi Leigh,

            Eckankar's take on the Tisra Til and the whole chakra thing is
            Astral too! I was looking at another part of "The Path of the
            Masters" and saw where (pgs. 443-446) the Tisra Til is "the seat of
            mind and soul." The (Radhasoami) Masters "begin their concentration
            at Tisra Til, and from there they go on up. If one begins there, the
            next station above Tisra Til is Ashta-dal-Kanwal, the lotus of eight
            pedals, and the next above that is the true center of all the Astral
            worlds. Its name is Sahasra-dal-Kanwal, and this is the first of the
            great regions traversed by the Masters on their upward journey."

            The spiritual exercise technique used most often in Eckankar, and
            which is listed in "The Master 4 Discourses," is to use the Tisra
            Til [a.k.a. The Third Eye; Spiritual Eye; Mind's Eye; Seat of Soul;
            Shivanetra, the eye of Shiva; Nukta-i-saveda; the Tenth Door].

            However, do Eckists realize that using the TISRA TIL is an ASTRAL
            PLANE technique? I never realized it before!

            "Sahasra-dal-Kanwal. sah-HAHS-rah-dahl-KAHN-wahl The CROWN CHAKRA,
            the thousand-pedaled lotus; the capital city of the ASTRAL PLANE,
            and the Mountain of Light at the top of the Astral; the powerhouse
            of lights. Also Astral City, City of Lights." [Eckankar Lexicon,
            pg.179]

            Amazing! All of those years we were told that the focus on the Tisra
            Til would get us to the Soul Plane and beyond! However, even
            focusing on the Crown Chakra (higher than the Tisra Til) only gets
            Soul to the top of the ASTRAL PLANE! All of those colored lights
            (including blue) that many Eckists see... are probably from
            the "Astral City, City of Lights!"

            I (like most chelas) just accepted and trusted that what "they" were
            saying was true! I never really bothered to check! Why would someone
            lie about "Spiritual" matters, especially, when knowing about Karma!
            Fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, shame on you... Mr. Klemp!

            Prometheus


            Leigh wrote:

            Hi Prometheus:
            That's a good piece of detective work. The Sepher/Zohar People,
            Sephiroth/Zohar (Spendor) one. But we're also looking at a couple of
            individual trees and missing the forest, here. Sepher, Sephiroth,
            are cognates from the same root - sep, or sept - where our
            word "seven" comes from also. Thr larger issue is that this is all
            astral plane b.s. from the classical formula. That is, the astral
            plane has seven levels, planes, or divisions in it. This goes WAY
            back (originally) to sun worship (sunlight, when it's broken down in
            the atmosphere by water (rain in the distance) or through the
            convention of a prism, breaks down into the seven wavelengths that
            compose it. Red, orange, yellow, green, indigo, blue, violet). The
            cabala is pure astral plane b.s. used in the conventional way to try
            to make of something of "God" or explain flux. This gets even more
            involved when you go beyond the conventional delusion of "jivatma"
            to "atma", "paramatma", and "adiatma". The "golden wisdom" Eckankar
            uses and is keyed into is pure imagination. The "gold" color always
            indicates imagination.

            The thing is, it's all nonsense. All of this kind of stuff but has
            been used over time by mankind to give itself a collective purpose,
            develop cultures, and so on.

            Leigh



            Prometheus wrote:

            Hi L2eigh,

            I have to agree that this could be a factor at times. On these Zohar
            and Sepher examples, however, I'm thinking that Twitch was in a rush
            to create new material for his scam and used the same source
            material for both. This is why we can see a relationship to the two
            fabrications.

            On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with us and did
            this as a game of sorts. Twitch was somewhat clever and egotistical,
            and this might have been his way of having the last laugh on those
            followers and critics who were more educated (Ph.Ds).

            Also, Twitch might have assumed that no one else would have done the
            research that he had done and would never find his source material
            or see the correlation.

            Another factor is, Why would anyone Not beleive him? Why would
            Twitch lie about Rebazar Tarzs or the rest of it? Hmmmmmm. So, it
            seems Twitch did consciously use obscure parts of anything and
            everything and redefined it to suit his purpose at the time.

            And, it does seem like Twitch was a compulsive liar as well! After
            awhile his mind became so deluded that he probably couldn't even
            decipher any real truth for himself. It seems like the double dupe
            was doubled with delusion! It's no wonder that Eckists find most of
            this confusing and complex and decide to just surrender their minds
            and wills to the Klempster.

            Prometheus

            "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:

            Hi Prometheus:
            In your post to Mish you indicate how the mind produces views for us
            out of stuff we've crammed into it. Don't you think J.P.T. was
            falling for this as well? This Zohar/Sephiroth, Zohar/Sepher thing
            seems to be a perfect example. So often in the past six years I've
            seen people expressing the view that a lot of the junk was
            consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're talking
            about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more often
            (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a case of
            someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at them to
            experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First they cram
            their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as best it
            can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical review !

            Leigh

            Prometheus wrote:
            The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell's scam. . . if only
            Eckists would really read it and do the research! In "The Path of
            the Masters" (Twitchell's primary resource book) on pages 161-168
            is a very interesting discussion of the Kabbalah. "The En Soph,
            therefore, was compelled to create the world in an indirect manner
            by ten emanations from the infinite light which he was, and in which
            he dwelt. These ten emanations are the ten Sephiroth, or Splendors
            of the Infinite One... each of these Sephiroth was represented by a
            Divine name and by an Angelic name... During the middle ages exiled
            Jewry kept itself alive by various mystical interpretations of its
            mission and destiny as expressed in a vast Kabbalistic literature,
            which ultimately found its most unified, most perfect expression in
            the Zohar, called the 'Book of Splendor.' This book did something
            which even the Bible and Talmud had ignored. It discovered for the
            materialistic Jew a new and hitherto unknown Kingdom: the Kingdom
            of the soul."

            Notice the words "Zohar" and "Sephiroth." Now let's look at the
            Eckankar Lexicon.

            "Zohar, the. ZOH-hahr A future ROOT RACE who will come from a far
            distant planet to colonize the world after the destruction in the
            twenty-first and twenty-second centuries, but they will fail and
            after several centuries will withdraw. See also Sepher."[pg. 243]

            "Sepher. SEHP-hehr The ECK Master who will be responsible for the
            spiritual welfare of the Zohar, the ROOT RACE who will colonize ..."
            [pg. 187]

            So, I think that we can all see how Twitch created another "Eck
            Master" Seph(er) and a new root race (Zohar) to go with him.
            [Zohar/Sephiroth vs. Zohar/Sepher] Is it no wonder that the
            existance of Rebazar Tarzs is in question as well!

            Prometheus
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