Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: ZOHAR AND SEPHER more Eck fiction by Twitchell

Expand Messages
  • Freefrom
    LOL Yes, I agree. It s the old, it s too absurd to be true, so therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this stuff up? No one would be so
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 30, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      LOL Yes, I agree. It's the old, it's too absurd to be true, so
      therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this
      stuff up? No one would be so dishonest as to just make all of this
      stuff up, right? Wrong. Let's face it, the ability to lie and act "as
      if" is a very human trait. It takes guts and courage to be honest.
      Lots of people lie all the time and lots of people try to live a
      mostly honest life. Those who stay with eckankar are still stuck in
      the herd mentality, like sheep. It's a kind of self-deception and
      false security.

      I think the whole cult/religion thing can be a bit like an addiction.
      The Kult addict doesn't want to admit to the addiction. Delusion and
      denial can be very powerful forces in the human psyche, IMO. I admit
      it myself. I was in a way drawn to the weird complex absurdity of
      eckankult as being true because I also believed that people are
      basically honest and good. I was also very naive, but not anymore.
      Spirituality doesn't mean that we have to give up having a brain. Even
      a child knows when the emperor is not wearing any clothes. It's a
      great story, because the emperor also believed that he was wearing
      clothes, when in fact he was walking around naked in pretense,
      believing what his handlers had told him.

      Hmmm. Didn't Klemp do something like that. LOL

      Freefrom

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
      <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi L2eigh,
      >
      > I have to agree that this could be a factor at times. On these Zohar
      > and Sepher examples, however, I'm thinking that Twitch was in a rush
      > to create new material for his scam and used the same source
      > material for both. This is why we can see a relationship to the two
      > fabrications.
      >
      > On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with us and did
      > this as a game of sorts. Twitch was clever and egotistical, and this
      > might have been his way of having the last laugh on those followers
      > and critics who were more educated (Ph.Ds).
      >
      > Also, Twitch might have assumed that no one else would have done the
      > research that he had done and would never find his source material
      > or see the correlation.
      >
      > Another factor is, Why would anyone Not beleive him? Why would
      > Twitch lie about Rebazar Tarzs or the rest of it? Hmmmmmm. So, maybe
      > Twitch did consciously use obscure parts of anything and everything
      > and redefined it to suit his purpose at the time.
      >
      > And, it does seem like Twitch was a compulsive liar as well! After
      > awhile his mind became so deluded that he probably couldn't even
      > decipher any real truth for himself. It seems like the double dupe
      > was doubled with delusion! It's no wonder that Eckists find most of
      > this confusing and complex and decide to just surrender their minds
      > and wills to the Klempster.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      >
      > "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:
      >
      > Hi Prometheus:
      > In your post to Mish you indicate how the mind produces views for us
      > out of stuff we've crammed into it. Don't you think J.P.T. was
      > falling for this as well? This Zohar/Sephiroth, Zohar/Sepher thing
      > seems to be a perfect example. So often in the past six years I've
      > seen people expressing the view that a lot of the junk was
      > consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're talking
      > about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more often
      > (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a case of
      > someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at them to
      > experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First they cram
      > their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as best it
      > can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical review !
      >
      > Leigh
      >
      > Prometheus wrote:
      >
      > The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell's scam. . . if only
      > Eckists would really read it and do the research! In "The Path of
      > the Masters" (Twitchell's primary resource book) on pages 161-168 is
      > a very interesting discussion of the Kabbalah. "The En Soph,
      > therefore, was compelled to create the world in an indirect manner
      > by ten emanations from the infinite light which he was, and in which
      > he dwelt. These ten emanations are the ten Sephiroth, or Splendors
      > of the Infinite One... each of these Sephiroth was represented by a
      > Divine name and by an Angelic name... During the middle ages exiled
      > Jewry kept itself alive by various mystical interpretations of its
      > mission and destiny as expressed in a vast Kabbalistic literature,
      > which ultimately found its most unified, most perfect expression in
      > the Zohar, called the 'Book of Splendor.' This book did something
      > which even the Bible and Talmud had ignored. It discovered for the
      > materialistic Jew a new and hitherto unknown Kingdom: the Kingdom of
      > the soul."
      >
      > Notice the words "Zohar" and "Sephiroth." Now let's look at the
      > Eckankar Lexicon.
      >
      > "Zohar, the. ZOH-hahr A future ROOT RACE who will come from a far
      > distant planet to colonize the world after the destruction in the
      > twenty-first and twenty-second centuries, but they will fail and
      > after several centuries will withdraw. See also Sepher."[pg. 243]
      >
      > "Sepher. SEHP-hehr The ECK Master who will be responsible for the
      > spiritual welfare of the Zohar, the ROOT RACE who will colonize ..."
      > [pg. 187]
      >
      > So, I think that we can all see how Twitch created another "Eck
      > Master" Seph(er) and a new root race (Zohar) to go with him.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • mishmisha9
      Hi, Freefrom and All! Good posts on this topic. Freefrom, you have really stated it succinctly and zoned in on the key reasons people are drawn into such
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi, Freefrom and All!

        Good posts on this topic. Freefrom, you have really stated it
        succinctly and zoned in on the key reasons people are drawn into
        such deceptions as in Eckankar!

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
        <eckchains@y...> wrote:
        >
        > LOL Yes, I agree. It's the old, it's too absurd to be true, so
        > therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this
        > stuff up? No one would be so dishonest as to just make all of this
        > stuff up, right? Wrong. Let's face it, the ability to lie and
        act "as if" is a very human trait.

        Mish: It's called being creative and imaginative! LOL! Dreams are
        real, etc. Dreams can be real, but yet we must discern and
        discriminate in figuring out what is garbage and what is not.
        Eckists seem to want to "live" their dreams, and will make decisions
        solely based on what they "perceive" on the inner. Well, one must be
        careful here . . .
        The problem with falling for dishonest people's spills is that we
        want to believe that people are truthful and honest at heart and
        would not be out to take advantage of us or cause us harm. A person
        like PT probably thought that his lies would not be that harmful
        (criminal) to those he duped, so why not? Big lie vs. little lie;
        big harm vs. little harm--and of course, if people are dumb/foolish
        enough to believe this crap, well why not--it is the listener's
        responsibility to not be deceived, etc.

        Many eckists justify continuing with the false teachings of eckankar
        because they feel that they are benefiting from the teachings,
        regardless of the lies and deceptions. How often do we hear that a
        person learned so many valuable things while in eckankar; therefore,
        it is just fine to continue misleading individuals? the end
        justifies the means--but isn't this exactly the way people are
        manipulated and controlled? This is what keeps eckists in the org!
        They settle for imperfection while searching for spiritual truths
        and enlightenment--but the imperfections actually doom attaining the
        goal! How can one find spiritual truth when one is basing it on lies?

        I think Harold Klemp uses all of the above to continue the lies and
        deceptions. And many eckists believe that Harold lives a humble
        life, and fail to realize that he is reaping the wealth with a very
        nicely secured bank account and investments, and I'm sure he does
        live much better than he suggests in his talks. Why does he do this?
        To deceive and to encourage his chelas to live solely for the
        mahanta in order to continue to give and give! Some individuals
        believe that possessing the material or living too comfortably gets
        in the way of spiritual growth--this seems to be taught in eckankar.
        The poorer you are, the more evolved you are?? This is still another
        lie aimed at duping individuals to stay on the path. Picture Harold
        as a Clark Kent type who turns into Superman. Underneath those
        polyester suits and cheap ties, there is a different animal in
        different clothes. Of course, I don't mean that he is a "good"
        superman! : )


        Freefrom: "It takes guts and courage to be honest."

        Mish: You know I think we BELIEVE "it takes guts and courage to be
        honest." But in truth, it is the much easier road to take! 1.
        Standing up and admitting a mistake often surprises people and they
        appreciate the honesty, so it is the best way to diffuse a
        misunderstanding or an error in behavior, etc. 2. For myself, I feel
        much better being honest than trying to live a lie!

        Freefrom: "Those who stay with eckankar are still stuck in the herd
        mentality, like sheep. It's a kind of self-deception and false
        security."

        Mish: Looking for security in our beliefs or even trying to find a
        base for our spiritual beliefs, yes, we can end up with the "herd
        mentality." And in eckankar, if you weren't a sheep to begin with,
        you become exactly that with all the fears and controls that keep
        chelas manipulated and trapped in the org! One gets in so deep that
        one fears leaving, and will fight to the bitter end to hold onto the
        brass ring! : )




        Prometheus: "On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with
        us and did this as a game of sorts. Twitch was clever and
        egotistical, and this might have been his way of having the last
        laugh on those followers and critics who were more educated
        (Ph.Ds)."


        Mish: Yes, I agree that PT was having good sport with people and
        that fooling people fed his ego! He found a dishonest way to dupe
        people and make a living, while pretending to be a great spiritual
        leader! I suppose he did believe some of it, because in the
        beginning he was a seeker himself, however, he evolved into a
        monster when he realized what he could do with his made up religion.
        He chose the dark side of the force, so to speak! : )


        Leigh wrote: "So often in the past six years
        I've seen people expressing the view that a lot of the junk was
        consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're
        talking about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more
        often (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a
        case of someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at
        them to experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First
        they cram their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as
        best it can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical
        review !"

        Mish: I agree with Leigh here as well. I believe that many
        individuals are using various resources such as self-publising
        books, setting up websites, doing workshops and seminars to "sell"
        junk to the public. It's all around us more than ever today with the
        fast speed of communications! Many people are buying into all kinds
        of stuff, conspiracy theories, mind control, healings, etc. Cram
        enough into your mind as Leigh states and critical thinking goes out
        the door. We lose our talent to discriminate truth from fiction.

        Anyway, very good discussions and comments. Thanks everyone!

        Mish
      • Freefrom
        Hello Misha, (Hello all) I see what you mean about how honesty is really the easier road in that you just feel better. It takes a lot of effort really to be
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Misha, (Hello all)

          I see what you mean about how honesty is really the easier road in
          that you just feel better. It takes a lot of effort really to be
          dishonest, IMO. That is why down through history the tyrants and
          psychopaths usually end up crashing and burning. In some cases they
          may just get tired of the false facade and it is such a relief to
          finally just admit to their lies. Many just become grossly insane.
          (how punny! LOL) Some do change and choose a path of honesty, although
          it is sometimes easier said than done. A lot of it depends on our life
          experiences and how we have been conditioned to behave or believe. I
          read somewhere that a true spirituality or just living the good life,
          involves a series of unmasking or openning to our true self as we are
          in process. Unfortunately, IMO, there are external cultural
          circumstances that can make the way of honesty more difficult. That is
          part of why we choose to be anonymous in this group, but this also
          allows us to be more honest. Well, now I'm starting to feel like I'm
          rambling.

          This group is really turning out well. I really am grateful for all
          the insightful posts from everyone, and the research and discussion.
          This kind of exchange of ideas etc. is so helpful.

          Freefrom
          ***************


          Freefrom: "It takes guts and courage to be honest."

          Mish: You know I think we BELIEVE "it takes guts and courage to be
          honest." But in truth, it is the much easier road to take! 1.
          Standing up and admitting a mistake often surprises people and they
          appreciate the honesty, so it is the best way to diffuse a
          misunderstanding or an error in behavior, etc. 2. For myself, I feel
          much better being honest than trying to live a lie!

          Freefrom: "Those who stay with eckankar are still stuck in the herd
          mentality, like sheep. It's a kind of self-deception and false
          security."

          Mish: Looking for security in our beliefs or even trying to find a
          base for our spiritual beliefs, yes, we can end up with the "herd
          mentality." And in eckankar, if you weren't a sheep to begin with,
          you become exactly that with all the fears and controls that keep
          chelas manipulated and trapped in the org! One gets in so deep that
          one fears leaving, and will fight to the bitter end to hold onto the
          brass ring! : )


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
          <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi, Freefrom and All!
          >
          > Good posts on this topic. Freefrom, you have really stated it
          > succinctly and zoned in on the key reasons people are drawn into
          > such deceptions as in Eckankar!
          >
          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
          > <eckchains@y...> wrote:
          > >
          > > LOL Yes, I agree. It's the old, it's too absurd to be true, so
          > > therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this
          > > stuff up? No one would be so dishonest as to just make all of this
          > > stuff up, right? Wrong. Let's face it, the ability to lie and
          > act "as if" is a very human trait.
          >
          > Mish: It's called being creative and imaginative! LOL! Dreams are
          > real, etc. Dreams can be real, but yet we must discern and
          > discriminate in figuring out what is garbage and what is not.
          > Eckists seem to want to "live" their dreams, and will make decisions
          > solely based on what they "perceive" on the inner. Well, one must be
          > careful here . . .
          > The problem with falling for dishonest people's spills is that we
          > want to believe that people are truthful and honest at heart and
          > would not be out to take advantage of us or cause us harm. A person
          > like PT probably thought that his lies would not be that harmful
          > (criminal) to those he duped, so why not? Big lie vs. little lie;
          > big harm vs. little harm--and of course, if people are dumb/foolish
          > enough to believe this crap, well why not--it is the listener's
          > responsibility to not be deceived, etc.
          >
          >snip
        • prometheus_973
          Garbage in garbage out... should be the motto for Eckists! When one has lied and stretched the truth since childhood, as Twitchell had, there is little
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 2, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Garbage in garbage out... should be the motto for Eckists! When one
            has lied and "stretched the truth" since childhood, as Twitchell
            had, there is little chance or hope for a change or improvement in
            either the deviant behaviour or lack of ethics. Lying becomes both a
            game (to bolster ego) and an addiction. Eckists should ask
            themselves if some of Twitchell's distortions and embellishments of
            truth have (unknowingly to them) polluted the base foundation of
            their Eck belief system. This is probably why Eckists (even some
            former Eckists) are having difficulties and conflicts within and
            without the Eckankar hierarchy. The subconscious mind, as well as
            Soul, recognize the contradictions, distortions, and the control
            methods used in the Eck literature and by Klemp. This is why Eckists
            have to force themselves, through the fear, guilt, and uneasy
            thoughts and feelings to act and speak as they're told.

            Prometheus
            p.s. I found both your posts very interesting and informative.



            eckchains wrote:

            Hello Misha, (Hello all)

            I see what you mean about how honesty is really the easier road in
            that you just feel better. It takes a lot of effort really to be
            dishonest, IMO. That is why down through history the tyrants and
            psychopaths usually end up crashing and burning. In some cases they
            may just get tired of the false facade and it is such a relief to
            finally just admit to their lies. Many just become grossly insane.
            (how punny! LOL) Some do change and choose a path of honesty,
            although it is sometimes easier said than done. A lot of it depends
            on our life experiences and how we have been conditioned to behave
            or believe. I read somewhere that a true spirituality or just living
            the good life, involves a series of unmasking or openning to our
            true self as we are in process. Unfortunately, IMO, there are
            external cultural circumstances that can make the way of honesty
            more difficult. That is part of why we choose to be anonymous in
            this group, but this also allows us to be more honest. Well, now I'm
            starting to feel like I'm rambling.

            This group is really turning out well. I really am grateful for all
            the insightful posts from everyone, and the research and discussion.
            This kind of exchange of ideas etc. is so helpful.

            Freefrom
            ***************


            Freefrom: "It takes guts and courage to be honest."

            Mish: You know I think we BELIEVE "it takes guts and courage to be
            honest." But in truth, it is the much easier road to take! 1.
            Standing up and admitting a mistake often surprises people and they
            appreciate the honesty, so it is the best way to diffuse a
            misunderstanding or an error in behavior, etc. 2. For myself, I feel
            much better being honest than trying to live a lie!

            Freefrom: "Those who stay with eckankar are still stuck in the herd
            mentality, like sheep. It's a kind of self-deception and false
            security."

            Mish: Looking for security in our beliefs or even trying to find a
            base for our spiritual beliefs, yes, we can end up with the "herd
            mentality." And in eckankar, if you weren't a sheep to begin with,
            you become exactly that with all the fears and controls that keep
            chelas manipulated and trapped in the org! One gets in so deep that
            one fears leaving, and will fight to the bitter end to hold onto the
            brass ring! : )


            mishmisha wrote:

            Hi, Freefrom and All!

            Good posts on this topic. Freefrom, you have really stated it
            succinctly and zoned in on the key reasons people are drawn into
            such deceptions as in Eckankar!

            "Freefrom" eckchains wrote:

            LOL Yes, I agree. It's the old, it's too absurd to be true, so
            therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this
            stuff up? No one would be so dishonest as to just make all of this
            stuff up, right? Wrong. Let's face it, the ability to lie and
            act "as if" is a very human trait.

            Mish: It's called being creative and imaginative! LOL! Dreams are
            real, etc. Dreams can be real, but yet we must discern and
            discriminate in figuring out what is garbage and what is not.
            Eckists seem to want to "live" their dreams, and will make decisions
            solely based on what they "perceive" on the inner. Well, one must be
            careful here . . . The problem with falling for dishonest people's
            spills is that we want to believe that people are truthful and
            honest at heart and would not be out to take advantage of us or
            cause us harm. A person like PT probably thought that his lies would
            not be that harmful (criminal) to those he duped, so why not? Big
            lie vs. little lie; big harm vs. little harm--and of course, if
            people are dumb/foolish enough to believe this crap, well why not--
            it is the listener's responsibility to not be deceived, etc.

            snip
          • l2eigh
            Hi Prometheus: That s a good piece of detective work. The Sepher/Zohar People, Sephiroth/Zohar (Spendor) one. But we re also looking at a couple of individual
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 2, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Prometheus:
              That's a good piece of detective work. The Sepher/Zohar
              People, Sephiroth/Zohar (Spendor) one. But we're also looking at a
              couple of individual trees and missing the forest, here. Sepher,
              Sephiroth, are cognates from the same root - sep, or sept - where our
              word "seven" comes from also. Thr larger issue is that this is all
              astral plane b.s. from the classical formula. That is, the astral
              plane has seven levels, planes, or divisions in it. This goes WAY
              back (originally) to sun worship (sunlight, when it's broken down in
              the atmosphere by water (rain in the distance) or through the
              convention of a prism, breaks down into the seven wavelengths that
              compose it. Red, orange, yellow, green, indigo, blue, violet). The
              cabala is pure astral plane b.s. used in the conventional way to try
              to make of something of "God" or explain flux. This gets even more
              involved when you go beyond the conventional delusion of "jivatma"
              to "atma", "paramatma", and "adiatma". The "golden wisdom" Eckankar
              uses and is keyed into is pure imagination. The "gold" color always
              indicates imagination.
              The thing is, it's all nonsense. All of this kind of
              stuff but has been used over time by mankind to give itself a
              collective purpose, develop cultures, and so on.

              Leigh


              - In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi L2eigh,
              >
              > I have to agree that this could be a factor at times. On these
              Zohar
              > and Sepher examples, however, I'm thinking that Twitch was in a
              rush
              > to create new material for his scam and used the same source
              > material for both. This is why we can see a relationship to the two
              > fabrications.
              >
              > On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with us and did
              > this as a game of sorts. Twitch was clever and egotistical, and
              this
              > might have been his way of having the last laugh on those followers
              > and critics who were more educated (Ph.Ds).
              >
              > Also, Twitch might have assumed that no one else would have done
              the
              > research that he had done and would never find his source material
              > or see the correlation.
              >
              > Another factor is, Why would anyone Not beleive him? Why would
              > Twitch lie about Rebazar Tarzs or the rest of it? Hmmmmmm. So,
              maybe
              > Twitch did consciously use obscure parts of anything and everything
              > and redefined it to suit his purpose at the time.
              >
              > And, it does seem like Twitch was a compulsive liar as well! After
              > awhile his mind became so deluded that he probably couldn't even
              > decipher any real truth for himself. It seems like the double dupe
              > was doubled with delusion! It's no wonder that Eckists find most of
              > this confusing and complex and decide to just surrender their minds
              > and wills to the Klempster.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:
              >
              > Hi Prometheus:
              > In your post to Mish you indicate how the mind produces views for
              us
              > out of stuff we've crammed into it. Don't you think J.P.T. was
              > falling for this as well? This Zohar/Sephiroth, Zohar/Sepher thing
              > seems to be a perfect example. So often in the past six years I've
              > seen people expressing the view that a lot of the junk was
              > consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're talking
              > about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more often
              > (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a case of
              > someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at them to
              > experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First they cram
              > their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as best it
              > can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical review !
              >
              > Leigh
              >
              > Prometheus wrote:
              >
              > The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell's scam. . . if only
              > Eckists would really read it and do the research! In "The Path of
              > the Masters" (Twitchell's primary resource book) on pages 161-168
              is
              > a very interesting discussion of the Kabbalah. "The En Soph,
              > therefore, was compelled to create the world in an indirect manner
              > by ten emanations from the infinite light which he was, and in
              which
              > he dwelt. These ten emanations are the ten Sephiroth, or Splendors
              > of the Infinite One... each of these Sephiroth was represented by a
              > Divine name and by an Angelic name... During the middle ages exiled
              > Jewry kept itself alive by various mystical interpretations of its
              > mission and destiny as expressed in a vast Kabbalistic literature,
              > which ultimately found its most unified, most perfect expression in
              > the Zohar, called the 'Book of Splendor.' This book did something
              > which even the Bible and Talmud had ignored. It discovered for the
              > materialistic Jew a new and hitherto unknown Kingdom: the Kingdom
              of
              > the soul."
              >
              > Notice the words "Zohar" and "Sephiroth." Now let's look at the
              > Eckankar Lexicon.
              >
              > "Zohar, the. ZOH-hahr A future ROOT RACE who will come from a far
              > distant planet to colonize the world after the destruction in the
              > twenty-first and twenty-second centuries, but they will fail and
              > after several centuries will withdraw. See also Sepher."[pg. 243]
              >
              > "Sepher. SEHP-hehr The ECK Master who will be responsible for the
              > spiritual welfare of the Zohar, the ROOT RACE who will colonize ..."
              > [pg. 187]
              >
              > So, I think that we can all see how Twitch created another "Eck
              > Master" Seph(er) and a new root race (Zohar) to go with him.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hi Leigh, Eckankar s take on the Tisra Til and the whole chakra thing is Astral too! I was looking at another part of The Path of the Masters and saw where
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 3, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Leigh,

                Eckankar's take on the Tisra Til and the whole chakra thing is
                Astral too! I was looking at another part of "The Path of the
                Masters" and saw where (pgs. 443-446) the Tisra Til is "the seat of
                mind and soul." The (Radhasoami) Masters "begin their concentration
                at Tisra Til, and from there they go on up. If one begins there, the
                next station above Tisra Til is Ashta-dal-Kanwal, the lotus of eight
                pedals, and the next above that is the true center of all the Astral
                worlds. Its name is Sahasra-dal-Kanwal, and this is the first of the
                great regions traversed by the Masters on their upward journey."

                The spiritual exercise technique used most often in Eckankar, and
                which is listed in "The Master 4 Discourses," is to use the Tisra
                Til [a.k.a. The Third Eye; Spiritual Eye; Mind's Eye; Seat of Soul;
                Shivanetra, the eye of Shiva; Nukta-i-saveda; the Tenth Door].

                However, do Eckists realize that using the TISRA TIL is an ASTRAL
                PLANE technique? I never realized it before!

                "Sahasra-dal-Kanwal. sah-HAHS-rah-dahl-KAHN-wahl The CROWN CHAKRA,
                the thousand-pedaled lotus; the capital city of the ASTRAL PLANE,
                and the Mountain of Light at the top of the Astral; the powerhouse
                of lights. Also Astral City, City of Lights." [Eckankar Lexicon,
                pg.179]

                Amazing! All of those years we were told that the focus on the Tisra
                Til would get us to the Soul Plane and beyond! However, even
                focusing on the Crown Chakra (higher than the Tisra Til) only gets
                Soul to the top of the ASTRAL PLANE! All of those colored lights
                (including blue) that many Eckists see... are probably from
                the "Astral City, City of Lights!"

                I (like most chelas) just accepted and trusted that what "they" were
                saying was true! I never really bothered to check! Why would someone
                lie about "Spiritual" matters, especially, when knowing about Karma!
                Fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, shame on you... Mr. Klemp!

                Prometheus


                Leigh wrote:

                Hi Prometheus:
                That's a good piece of detective work. The Sepher/Zohar People,
                Sephiroth/Zohar (Spendor) one. But we're also looking at a couple of
                individual trees and missing the forest, here. Sepher, Sephiroth,
                are cognates from the same root - sep, or sept - where our
                word "seven" comes from also. Thr larger issue is that this is all
                astral plane b.s. from the classical formula. That is, the astral
                plane has seven levels, planes, or divisions in it. This goes WAY
                back (originally) to sun worship (sunlight, when it's broken down in
                the atmosphere by water (rain in the distance) or through the
                convention of a prism, breaks down into the seven wavelengths that
                compose it. Red, orange, yellow, green, indigo, blue, violet). The
                cabala is pure astral plane b.s. used in the conventional way to try
                to make of something of "God" or explain flux. This gets even more
                involved when you go beyond the conventional delusion of "jivatma"
                to "atma", "paramatma", and "adiatma". The "golden wisdom" Eckankar
                uses and is keyed into is pure imagination. The "gold" color always
                indicates imagination.

                The thing is, it's all nonsense. All of this kind of stuff but has
                been used over time by mankind to give itself a collective purpose,
                develop cultures, and so on.

                Leigh



                Prometheus wrote:

                Hi L2eigh,

                I have to agree that this could be a factor at times. On these Zohar
                and Sepher examples, however, I'm thinking that Twitch was in a rush
                to create new material for his scam and used the same source
                material for both. This is why we can see a relationship to the two
                fabrications.

                On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with us and did
                this as a game of sorts. Twitch was somewhat clever and egotistical,
                and this might have been his way of having the last laugh on those
                followers and critics who were more educated (Ph.Ds).

                Also, Twitch might have assumed that no one else would have done the
                research that he had done and would never find his source material
                or see the correlation.

                Another factor is, Why would anyone Not beleive him? Why would
                Twitch lie about Rebazar Tarzs or the rest of it? Hmmmmmm. So, it
                seems Twitch did consciously use obscure parts of anything and
                everything and redefined it to suit his purpose at the time.

                And, it does seem like Twitch was a compulsive liar as well! After
                awhile his mind became so deluded that he probably couldn't even
                decipher any real truth for himself. It seems like the double dupe
                was doubled with delusion! It's no wonder that Eckists find most of
                this confusing and complex and decide to just surrender their minds
                and wills to the Klempster.

                Prometheus

                "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:

                Hi Prometheus:
                In your post to Mish you indicate how the mind produces views for us
                out of stuff we've crammed into it. Don't you think J.P.T. was
                falling for this as well? This Zohar/Sephiroth, Zohar/Sepher thing
                seems to be a perfect example. So often in the past six years I've
                seen people expressing the view that a lot of the junk was
                consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're talking
                about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more often
                (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a case of
                someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at them to
                experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First they cram
                their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as best it
                can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical review !

                Leigh

                Prometheus wrote:
                The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell's scam. . . if only
                Eckists would really read it and do the research! In "The Path of
                the Masters" (Twitchell's primary resource book) on pages 161-168
                is a very interesting discussion of the Kabbalah. "The En Soph,
                therefore, was compelled to create the world in an indirect manner
                by ten emanations from the infinite light which he was, and in which
                he dwelt. These ten emanations are the ten Sephiroth, or Splendors
                of the Infinite One... each of these Sephiroth was represented by a
                Divine name and by an Angelic name... During the middle ages exiled
                Jewry kept itself alive by various mystical interpretations of its
                mission and destiny as expressed in a vast Kabbalistic literature,
                which ultimately found its most unified, most perfect expression in
                the Zohar, called the 'Book of Splendor.' This book did something
                which even the Bible and Talmud had ignored. It discovered for the
                materialistic Jew a new and hitherto unknown Kingdom: the Kingdom
                of the soul."

                Notice the words "Zohar" and "Sephiroth." Now let's look at the
                Eckankar Lexicon.

                "Zohar, the. ZOH-hahr A future ROOT RACE who will come from a far
                distant planet to colonize the world after the destruction in the
                twenty-first and twenty-second centuries, but they will fail and
                after several centuries will withdraw. See also Sepher."[pg. 243]

                "Sepher. SEHP-hehr The ECK Master who will be responsible for the
                spiritual welfare of the Zohar, the ROOT RACE who will colonize ..."
                [pg. 187]

                So, I think that we can all see how Twitch created another "Eck
                Master" Seph(er) and a new root race (Zohar) to go with him.
                [Zohar/Sephiroth vs. Zohar/Sepher] Is it no wonder that the
                existance of Rebazar Tarzs is in question as well!

                Prometheus
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.