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ZOHAR AND SEPHER more Eck fiction by Twitchell

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  • prometheus_973
    The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell s scam. . . if only Eckists would really read it and do the research! In The Path of the Masters (Twitchell s
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 30, 2005
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      The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell's scam. . . if only
      Eckists would really read it and do the research!

      In "The Path of the Masters" (Twitchell's primary resource book) on
      pages 161-168 is a very interesting discussion of the Kabbalah. "The
      En Soph, therefore, was compelled to create the world in an indirect
      manner by ten emanations from the infinite light which he was, and
      in which he dwelt. These ten emanations are the ten Sephiroth, or
      Splendors of the Infinite One... each of these Sephiroth was
      represented by a Divine name and by an Angelic name... During the
      middle ages exiled Jewry kept itself alive by various mystical
      interpretations of its mission and destiny as expressed in a vast
      Kabbalistic literature, which ultimately found its most unified,
      most perfect expression in the Zohar, called the 'Book of Splendor.'
      This book did something which even the Bible and Talmud had ignored.
      It discovered for the materialistic Jew a new and hitherto unknown
      Kingdom: the Kingdom of the soul."

      Notice the words "Zohar" and "Sephiroth." Now let's look at the
      Eckankar Lexicon.

      "Zohar, the. ZOH-hahr A future ROOT RACE who will come from a far
      distant planet to colonize the world after the destruction in the
      twenty-first and twenty-second centuries, but they will fail and
      after several centuries will withdraw. See also Sepher."[pg. 243]

      "Sepher. SEHP-hehr The ECK Master who will be responsible for the
      spiritual welfare of the Zohar, the ROOT RACE who will colonize ..."
      [pg. 187]

      So, I think that we can all see how Twitch created another "Eck
      Master" Seph(er) and a new root race (Zohar) to go with him.

      Prometheus
    • l2eigh
      Hi Prometheus: In your post to Mish you indicate how the mind produces views for us out of stuff we ve crammed into it. Don t you think J.P.T. was falling for
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 30, 2005
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        Hi Prometheus:
        In your post to Mish you indicate how the mind produces
        views for us out of stuff we've crammed into it. Don't you think
        J.P.T. was falling for this as well? This Zohar/Sephiroth,
        Zohar/Sepher thing seems to be a perfect example. So often in the
        past six years I've seen people expressing the view that a lot of the
        junk was consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're
        talking about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more
        often (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a case
        of someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at them to
        experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First they cram
        their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as best it
        can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical review !

        Leigh

        -- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
        <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
        >
        > The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell's scam. . . if only
        > Eckists would really read it and do the research!
        >
        > In "The Path of the Masters" (Twitchell's primary resource book) on
        > pages 161-168 is a very interesting discussion of the
        Kabbalah. "The
        > En Soph, therefore, was compelled to create the world in an
        indirect
        > manner by ten emanations from the infinite light which he was, and
        > in which he dwelt. These ten emanations are the ten Sephiroth, or
        > Splendors of the Infinite One... each of these Sephiroth was
        > represented by a Divine name and by an Angelic name... During the
        > middle ages exiled Jewry kept itself alive by various mystical
        > interpretations of its mission and destiny as expressed in a vast
        > Kabbalistic literature, which ultimately found its most unified,
        > most perfect expression in the Zohar, called the 'Book of
        Splendor.'
        > This book did something which even the Bible and Talmud had
        ignored.
        > It discovered for the materialistic Jew a new and hitherto unknown
        > Kingdom: the Kingdom of the soul."
        >
        > Notice the words "Zohar" and "Sephiroth." Now let's look at the
        > Eckankar Lexicon.
        >
        > "Zohar, the. ZOH-hahr A future ROOT RACE who will come from a far
        > distant planet to colonize the world after the destruction in the
        > twenty-first and twenty-second centuries, but they will fail and
        > after several centuries will withdraw. See also Sepher."[pg. 243]
        >
        > "Sepher. SEHP-hehr The ECK Master who will be responsible for the
        > spiritual welfare of the Zohar, the ROOT RACE who will colonize ..."
        > [pg. 187]
        >
        > So, I think that we can all see how Twitch created another "Eck
        > Master" Seph(er) and a new root race (Zohar) to go with him.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi L2eigh, I have to agree that this could be a factor at times. On these Zohar and Sepher examples, however, I m thinking that Twitch was in a rush to create
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 30, 2005
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          Hi L2eigh,

          I have to agree that this could be a factor at times. On these Zohar
          and Sepher examples, however, I'm thinking that Twitch was in a rush
          to create new material for his scam and used the same source
          material for both. This is why we can see a relationship to the two
          fabrications.

          On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with us and did
          this as a game of sorts. Twitch was clever and egotistical, and this
          might have been his way of having the last laugh on those followers
          and critics who were more educated (Ph.Ds).

          Also, Twitch might have assumed that no one else would have done the
          research that he had done and would never find his source material
          or see the correlation.

          Another factor is, Why would anyone Not beleive him? Why would
          Twitch lie about Rebazar Tarzs or the rest of it? Hmmmmmm. So, maybe
          Twitch did consciously use obscure parts of anything and everything
          and redefined it to suit his purpose at the time.

          And, it does seem like Twitch was a compulsive liar as well! After
          awhile his mind became so deluded that he probably couldn't even
          decipher any real truth for himself. It seems like the double dupe
          was doubled with delusion! It's no wonder that Eckists find most of
          this confusing and complex and decide to just surrender their minds
          and wills to the Klempster.

          Prometheus


          "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:

          Hi Prometheus:
          In your post to Mish you indicate how the mind produces views for us
          out of stuff we've crammed into it. Don't you think J.P.T. was
          falling for this as well? This Zohar/Sephiroth, Zohar/Sepher thing
          seems to be a perfect example. So often in the past six years I've
          seen people expressing the view that a lot of the junk was
          consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're talking
          about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more often
          (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a case of
          someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at them to
          experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First they cram
          their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as best it
          can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical review !

          Leigh

          Prometheus wrote:

          The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell's scam. . . if only
          Eckists would really read it and do the research! In "The Path of
          the Masters" (Twitchell's primary resource book) on pages 161-168 is
          a very interesting discussion of the Kabbalah. "The En Soph,
          therefore, was compelled to create the world in an indirect manner
          by ten emanations from the infinite light which he was, and in which
          he dwelt. These ten emanations are the ten Sephiroth, or Splendors
          of the Infinite One... each of these Sephiroth was represented by a
          Divine name and by an Angelic name... During the middle ages exiled
          Jewry kept itself alive by various mystical interpretations of its
          mission and destiny as expressed in a vast Kabbalistic literature,
          which ultimately found its most unified, most perfect expression in
          the Zohar, called the 'Book of Splendor.' This book did something
          which even the Bible and Talmud had ignored. It discovered for the
          materialistic Jew a new and hitherto unknown Kingdom: the Kingdom of
          the soul."

          Notice the words "Zohar" and "Sephiroth." Now let's look at the
          Eckankar Lexicon.

          "Zohar, the. ZOH-hahr A future ROOT RACE who will come from a far
          distant planet to colonize the world after the destruction in the
          twenty-first and twenty-second centuries, but they will fail and
          after several centuries will withdraw. See also Sepher."[pg. 243]

          "Sepher. SEHP-hehr The ECK Master who will be responsible for the
          spiritual welfare of the Zohar, the ROOT RACE who will colonize ..."
          [pg. 187]

          So, I think that we can all see how Twitch created another "Eck
          Master" Seph(er) and a new root race (Zohar) to go with him.

          Prometheus
        • Freefrom
          LOL Yes, I agree. It s the old, it s too absurd to be true, so therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this stuff up? No one would be so
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 30, 2005
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            LOL Yes, I agree. It's the old, it's too absurd to be true, so
            therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this
            stuff up? No one would be so dishonest as to just make all of this
            stuff up, right? Wrong. Let's face it, the ability to lie and act "as
            if" is a very human trait. It takes guts and courage to be honest.
            Lots of people lie all the time and lots of people try to live a
            mostly honest life. Those who stay with eckankar are still stuck in
            the herd mentality, like sheep. It's a kind of self-deception and
            false security.

            I think the whole cult/religion thing can be a bit like an addiction.
            The Kult addict doesn't want to admit to the addiction. Delusion and
            denial can be very powerful forces in the human psyche, IMO. I admit
            it myself. I was in a way drawn to the weird complex absurdity of
            eckankult as being true because I also believed that people are
            basically honest and good. I was also very naive, but not anymore.
            Spirituality doesn't mean that we have to give up having a brain. Even
            a child knows when the emperor is not wearing any clothes. It's a
            great story, because the emperor also believed that he was wearing
            clothes, when in fact he was walking around naked in pretense,
            believing what his handlers had told him.

            Hmmm. Didn't Klemp do something like that. LOL

            Freefrom

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi L2eigh,
            >
            > I have to agree that this could be a factor at times. On these Zohar
            > and Sepher examples, however, I'm thinking that Twitch was in a rush
            > to create new material for his scam and used the same source
            > material for both. This is why we can see a relationship to the two
            > fabrications.
            >
            > On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with us and did
            > this as a game of sorts. Twitch was clever and egotistical, and this
            > might have been his way of having the last laugh on those followers
            > and critics who were more educated (Ph.Ds).
            >
            > Also, Twitch might have assumed that no one else would have done the
            > research that he had done and would never find his source material
            > or see the correlation.
            >
            > Another factor is, Why would anyone Not beleive him? Why would
            > Twitch lie about Rebazar Tarzs or the rest of it? Hmmmmmm. So, maybe
            > Twitch did consciously use obscure parts of anything and everything
            > and redefined it to suit his purpose at the time.
            >
            > And, it does seem like Twitch was a compulsive liar as well! After
            > awhile his mind became so deluded that he probably couldn't even
            > decipher any real truth for himself. It seems like the double dupe
            > was doubled with delusion! It's no wonder that Eckists find most of
            > this confusing and complex and decide to just surrender their minds
            > and wills to the Klempster.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            > "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:
            >
            > Hi Prometheus:
            > In your post to Mish you indicate how the mind produces views for us
            > out of stuff we've crammed into it. Don't you think J.P.T. was
            > falling for this as well? This Zohar/Sephiroth, Zohar/Sepher thing
            > seems to be a perfect example. So often in the past six years I've
            > seen people expressing the view that a lot of the junk was
            > consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're talking
            > about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more often
            > (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a case of
            > someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at them to
            > experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First they cram
            > their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as best it
            > can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical review !
            >
            > Leigh
            >
            > Prometheus wrote:
            >
            > The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell's scam. . . if only
            > Eckists would really read it and do the research! In "The Path of
            > the Masters" (Twitchell's primary resource book) on pages 161-168 is
            > a very interesting discussion of the Kabbalah. "The En Soph,
            > therefore, was compelled to create the world in an indirect manner
            > by ten emanations from the infinite light which he was, and in which
            > he dwelt. These ten emanations are the ten Sephiroth, or Splendors
            > of the Infinite One... each of these Sephiroth was represented by a
            > Divine name and by an Angelic name... During the middle ages exiled
            > Jewry kept itself alive by various mystical interpretations of its
            > mission and destiny as expressed in a vast Kabbalistic literature,
            > which ultimately found its most unified, most perfect expression in
            > the Zohar, called the 'Book of Splendor.' This book did something
            > which even the Bible and Talmud had ignored. It discovered for the
            > materialistic Jew a new and hitherto unknown Kingdom: the Kingdom of
            > the soul."
            >
            > Notice the words "Zohar" and "Sephiroth." Now let's look at the
            > Eckankar Lexicon.
            >
            > "Zohar, the. ZOH-hahr A future ROOT RACE who will come from a far
            > distant planet to colonize the world after the destruction in the
            > twenty-first and twenty-second centuries, but they will fail and
            > after several centuries will withdraw. See also Sepher."[pg. 243]
            >
            > "Sepher. SEHP-hehr The ECK Master who will be responsible for the
            > spiritual welfare of the Zohar, the ROOT RACE who will colonize ..."
            > [pg. 187]
            >
            > So, I think that we can all see how Twitch created another "Eck
            > Master" Seph(er) and a new root race (Zohar) to go with him.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
          • mishmisha9
            Hi, Freefrom and All! Good posts on this topic. Freefrom, you have really stated it succinctly and zoned in on the key reasons people are drawn into such
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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              Hi, Freefrom and All!

              Good posts on this topic. Freefrom, you have really stated it
              succinctly and zoned in on the key reasons people are drawn into
              such deceptions as in Eckankar!

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
              <eckchains@y...> wrote:
              >
              > LOL Yes, I agree. It's the old, it's too absurd to be true, so
              > therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this
              > stuff up? No one would be so dishonest as to just make all of this
              > stuff up, right? Wrong. Let's face it, the ability to lie and
              act "as if" is a very human trait.

              Mish: It's called being creative and imaginative! LOL! Dreams are
              real, etc. Dreams can be real, but yet we must discern and
              discriminate in figuring out what is garbage and what is not.
              Eckists seem to want to "live" their dreams, and will make decisions
              solely based on what they "perceive" on the inner. Well, one must be
              careful here . . .
              The problem with falling for dishonest people's spills is that we
              want to believe that people are truthful and honest at heart and
              would not be out to take advantage of us or cause us harm. A person
              like PT probably thought that his lies would not be that harmful
              (criminal) to those he duped, so why not? Big lie vs. little lie;
              big harm vs. little harm--and of course, if people are dumb/foolish
              enough to believe this crap, well why not--it is the listener's
              responsibility to not be deceived, etc.

              Many eckists justify continuing with the false teachings of eckankar
              because they feel that they are benefiting from the teachings,
              regardless of the lies and deceptions. How often do we hear that a
              person learned so many valuable things while in eckankar; therefore,
              it is just fine to continue misleading individuals? the end
              justifies the means--but isn't this exactly the way people are
              manipulated and controlled? This is what keeps eckists in the org!
              They settle for imperfection while searching for spiritual truths
              and enlightenment--but the imperfections actually doom attaining the
              goal! How can one find spiritual truth when one is basing it on lies?

              I think Harold Klemp uses all of the above to continue the lies and
              deceptions. And many eckists believe that Harold lives a humble
              life, and fail to realize that he is reaping the wealth with a very
              nicely secured bank account and investments, and I'm sure he does
              live much better than he suggests in his talks. Why does he do this?
              To deceive and to encourage his chelas to live solely for the
              mahanta in order to continue to give and give! Some individuals
              believe that possessing the material or living too comfortably gets
              in the way of spiritual growth--this seems to be taught in eckankar.
              The poorer you are, the more evolved you are?? This is still another
              lie aimed at duping individuals to stay on the path. Picture Harold
              as a Clark Kent type who turns into Superman. Underneath those
              polyester suits and cheap ties, there is a different animal in
              different clothes. Of course, I don't mean that he is a "good"
              superman! : )


              Freefrom: "It takes guts and courage to be honest."

              Mish: You know I think we BELIEVE "it takes guts and courage to be
              honest." But in truth, it is the much easier road to take! 1.
              Standing up and admitting a mistake often surprises people and they
              appreciate the honesty, so it is the best way to diffuse a
              misunderstanding or an error in behavior, etc. 2. For myself, I feel
              much better being honest than trying to live a lie!

              Freefrom: "Those who stay with eckankar are still stuck in the herd
              mentality, like sheep. It's a kind of self-deception and false
              security."

              Mish: Looking for security in our beliefs or even trying to find a
              base for our spiritual beliefs, yes, we can end up with the "herd
              mentality." And in eckankar, if you weren't a sheep to begin with,
              you become exactly that with all the fears and controls that keep
              chelas manipulated and trapped in the org! One gets in so deep that
              one fears leaving, and will fight to the bitter end to hold onto the
              brass ring! : )




              Prometheus: "On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with
              us and did this as a game of sorts. Twitch was clever and
              egotistical, and this might have been his way of having the last
              laugh on those followers and critics who were more educated
              (Ph.Ds)."


              Mish: Yes, I agree that PT was having good sport with people and
              that fooling people fed his ego! He found a dishonest way to dupe
              people and make a living, while pretending to be a great spiritual
              leader! I suppose he did believe some of it, because in the
              beginning he was a seeker himself, however, he evolved into a
              monster when he realized what he could do with his made up religion.
              He chose the dark side of the force, so to speak! : )


              Leigh wrote: "So often in the past six years
              I've seen people expressing the view that a lot of the junk was
              consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're
              talking about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more
              often (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a
              case of someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at
              them to experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First
              they cram their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as
              best it can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical
              review !"

              Mish: I agree with Leigh here as well. I believe that many
              individuals are using various resources such as self-publising
              books, setting up websites, doing workshops and seminars to "sell"
              junk to the public. It's all around us more than ever today with the
              fast speed of communications! Many people are buying into all kinds
              of stuff, conspiracy theories, mind control, healings, etc. Cram
              enough into your mind as Leigh states and critical thinking goes out
              the door. We lose our talent to discriminate truth from fiction.

              Anyway, very good discussions and comments. Thanks everyone!

              Mish
            • Freefrom
              Hello Misha, (Hello all) I see what you mean about how honesty is really the easier road in that you just feel better. It takes a lot of effort really to be
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 1, 2005
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                Hello Misha, (Hello all)

                I see what you mean about how honesty is really the easier road in
                that you just feel better. It takes a lot of effort really to be
                dishonest, IMO. That is why down through history the tyrants and
                psychopaths usually end up crashing and burning. In some cases they
                may just get tired of the false facade and it is such a relief to
                finally just admit to their lies. Many just become grossly insane.
                (how punny! LOL) Some do change and choose a path of honesty, although
                it is sometimes easier said than done. A lot of it depends on our life
                experiences and how we have been conditioned to behave or believe. I
                read somewhere that a true spirituality or just living the good life,
                involves a series of unmasking or openning to our true self as we are
                in process. Unfortunately, IMO, there are external cultural
                circumstances that can make the way of honesty more difficult. That is
                part of why we choose to be anonymous in this group, but this also
                allows us to be more honest. Well, now I'm starting to feel like I'm
                rambling.

                This group is really turning out well. I really am grateful for all
                the insightful posts from everyone, and the research and discussion.
                This kind of exchange of ideas etc. is so helpful.

                Freefrom
                ***************


                Freefrom: "It takes guts and courage to be honest."

                Mish: You know I think we BELIEVE "it takes guts and courage to be
                honest." But in truth, it is the much easier road to take! 1.
                Standing up and admitting a mistake often surprises people and they
                appreciate the honesty, so it is the best way to diffuse a
                misunderstanding or an error in behavior, etc. 2. For myself, I feel
                much better being honest than trying to live a lie!

                Freefrom: "Those who stay with eckankar are still stuck in the herd
                mentality, like sheep. It's a kind of self-deception and false
                security."

                Mish: Looking for security in our beliefs or even trying to find a
                base for our spiritual beliefs, yes, we can end up with the "herd
                mentality." And in eckankar, if you weren't a sheep to begin with,
                you become exactly that with all the fears and controls that keep
                chelas manipulated and trapped in the org! One gets in so deep that
                one fears leaving, and will fight to the bitter end to hold onto the
                brass ring! : )


                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
                <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi, Freefrom and All!
                >
                > Good posts on this topic. Freefrom, you have really stated it
                > succinctly and zoned in on the key reasons people are drawn into
                > such deceptions as in Eckankar!
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
                > <eckchains@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > LOL Yes, I agree. It's the old, it's too absurd to be true, so
                > > therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this
                > > stuff up? No one would be so dishonest as to just make all of this
                > > stuff up, right? Wrong. Let's face it, the ability to lie and
                > act "as if" is a very human trait.
                >
                > Mish: It's called being creative and imaginative! LOL! Dreams are
                > real, etc. Dreams can be real, but yet we must discern and
                > discriminate in figuring out what is garbage and what is not.
                > Eckists seem to want to "live" their dreams, and will make decisions
                > solely based on what they "perceive" on the inner. Well, one must be
                > careful here . . .
                > The problem with falling for dishonest people's spills is that we
                > want to believe that people are truthful and honest at heart and
                > would not be out to take advantage of us or cause us harm. A person
                > like PT probably thought that his lies would not be that harmful
                > (criminal) to those he duped, so why not? Big lie vs. little lie;
                > big harm vs. little harm--and of course, if people are dumb/foolish
                > enough to believe this crap, well why not--it is the listener's
                > responsibility to not be deceived, etc.
                >
                >snip
              • prometheus_973
                Garbage in garbage out... should be the motto for Eckists! When one has lied and stretched the truth since childhood, as Twitchell had, there is little
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 2, 2005
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                  Garbage in garbage out... should be the motto for Eckists! When one
                  has lied and "stretched the truth" since childhood, as Twitchell
                  had, there is little chance or hope for a change or improvement in
                  either the deviant behaviour or lack of ethics. Lying becomes both a
                  game (to bolster ego) and an addiction. Eckists should ask
                  themselves if some of Twitchell's distortions and embellishments of
                  truth have (unknowingly to them) polluted the base foundation of
                  their Eck belief system. This is probably why Eckists (even some
                  former Eckists) are having difficulties and conflicts within and
                  without the Eckankar hierarchy. The subconscious mind, as well as
                  Soul, recognize the contradictions, distortions, and the control
                  methods used in the Eck literature and by Klemp. This is why Eckists
                  have to force themselves, through the fear, guilt, and uneasy
                  thoughts and feelings to act and speak as they're told.

                  Prometheus
                  p.s. I found both your posts very interesting and informative.



                  eckchains wrote:

                  Hello Misha, (Hello all)

                  I see what you mean about how honesty is really the easier road in
                  that you just feel better. It takes a lot of effort really to be
                  dishonest, IMO. That is why down through history the tyrants and
                  psychopaths usually end up crashing and burning. In some cases they
                  may just get tired of the false facade and it is such a relief to
                  finally just admit to their lies. Many just become grossly insane.
                  (how punny! LOL) Some do change and choose a path of honesty,
                  although it is sometimes easier said than done. A lot of it depends
                  on our life experiences and how we have been conditioned to behave
                  or believe. I read somewhere that a true spirituality or just living
                  the good life, involves a series of unmasking or openning to our
                  true self as we are in process. Unfortunately, IMO, there are
                  external cultural circumstances that can make the way of honesty
                  more difficult. That is part of why we choose to be anonymous in
                  this group, but this also allows us to be more honest. Well, now I'm
                  starting to feel like I'm rambling.

                  This group is really turning out well. I really am grateful for all
                  the insightful posts from everyone, and the research and discussion.
                  This kind of exchange of ideas etc. is so helpful.

                  Freefrom
                  ***************


                  Freefrom: "It takes guts and courage to be honest."

                  Mish: You know I think we BELIEVE "it takes guts and courage to be
                  honest." But in truth, it is the much easier road to take! 1.
                  Standing up and admitting a mistake often surprises people and they
                  appreciate the honesty, so it is the best way to diffuse a
                  misunderstanding or an error in behavior, etc. 2. For myself, I feel
                  much better being honest than trying to live a lie!

                  Freefrom: "Those who stay with eckankar are still stuck in the herd
                  mentality, like sheep. It's a kind of self-deception and false
                  security."

                  Mish: Looking for security in our beliefs or even trying to find a
                  base for our spiritual beliefs, yes, we can end up with the "herd
                  mentality." And in eckankar, if you weren't a sheep to begin with,
                  you become exactly that with all the fears and controls that keep
                  chelas manipulated and trapped in the org! One gets in so deep that
                  one fears leaving, and will fight to the bitter end to hold onto the
                  brass ring! : )


                  mishmisha wrote:

                  Hi, Freefrom and All!

                  Good posts on this topic. Freefrom, you have really stated it
                  succinctly and zoned in on the key reasons people are drawn into
                  such deceptions as in Eckankar!

                  "Freefrom" eckchains wrote:

                  LOL Yes, I agree. It's the old, it's too absurd to be true, so
                  therefore it must be true! How could someone have made all of this
                  stuff up? No one would be so dishonest as to just make all of this
                  stuff up, right? Wrong. Let's face it, the ability to lie and
                  act "as if" is a very human trait.

                  Mish: It's called being creative and imaginative! LOL! Dreams are
                  real, etc. Dreams can be real, but yet we must discern and
                  discriminate in figuring out what is garbage and what is not.
                  Eckists seem to want to "live" their dreams, and will make decisions
                  solely based on what they "perceive" on the inner. Well, one must be
                  careful here . . . The problem with falling for dishonest people's
                  spills is that we want to believe that people are truthful and
                  honest at heart and would not be out to take advantage of us or
                  cause us harm. A person like PT probably thought that his lies would
                  not be that harmful (criminal) to those he duped, so why not? Big
                  lie vs. little lie; big harm vs. little harm--and of course, if
                  people are dumb/foolish enough to believe this crap, well why not--
                  it is the listener's responsibility to not be deceived, etc.

                  snip
                • l2eigh
                  Hi Prometheus: That s a good piece of detective work. The Sepher/Zohar People, Sephiroth/Zohar (Spendor) one. But we re also looking at a couple of individual
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 2, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Prometheus:
                    That's a good piece of detective work. The Sepher/Zohar
                    People, Sephiroth/Zohar (Spendor) one. But we're also looking at a
                    couple of individual trees and missing the forest, here. Sepher,
                    Sephiroth, are cognates from the same root - sep, or sept - where our
                    word "seven" comes from also. Thr larger issue is that this is all
                    astral plane b.s. from the classical formula. That is, the astral
                    plane has seven levels, planes, or divisions in it. This goes WAY
                    back (originally) to sun worship (sunlight, when it's broken down in
                    the atmosphere by water (rain in the distance) or through the
                    convention of a prism, breaks down into the seven wavelengths that
                    compose it. Red, orange, yellow, green, indigo, blue, violet). The
                    cabala is pure astral plane b.s. used in the conventional way to try
                    to make of something of "God" or explain flux. This gets even more
                    involved when you go beyond the conventional delusion of "jivatma"
                    to "atma", "paramatma", and "adiatma". The "golden wisdom" Eckankar
                    uses and is keyed into is pure imagination. The "gold" color always
                    indicates imagination.
                    The thing is, it's all nonsense. All of this kind of
                    stuff but has been used over time by mankind to give itself a
                    collective purpose, develop cultures, and so on.

                    Leigh


                    - In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                    <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi L2eigh,
                    >
                    > I have to agree that this could be a factor at times. On these
                    Zohar
                    > and Sepher examples, however, I'm thinking that Twitch was in a
                    rush
                    > to create new material for his scam and used the same source
                    > material for both. This is why we can see a relationship to the two
                    > fabrications.
                    >
                    > On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with us and did
                    > this as a game of sorts. Twitch was clever and egotistical, and
                    this
                    > might have been his way of having the last laugh on those followers
                    > and critics who were more educated (Ph.Ds).
                    >
                    > Also, Twitch might have assumed that no one else would have done
                    the
                    > research that he had done and would never find his source material
                    > or see the correlation.
                    >
                    > Another factor is, Why would anyone Not beleive him? Why would
                    > Twitch lie about Rebazar Tarzs or the rest of it? Hmmmmmm. So,
                    maybe
                    > Twitch did consciously use obscure parts of anything and everything
                    > and redefined it to suit his purpose at the time.
                    >
                    > And, it does seem like Twitch was a compulsive liar as well! After
                    > awhile his mind became so deluded that he probably couldn't even
                    > decipher any real truth for himself. It seems like the double dupe
                    > was doubled with delusion! It's no wonder that Eckists find most of
                    > this confusing and complex and decide to just surrender their minds
                    > and wills to the Klempster.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    >
                    > "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Prometheus:
                    > In your post to Mish you indicate how the mind produces views for
                    us
                    > out of stuff we've crammed into it. Don't you think J.P.T. was
                    > falling for this as well? This Zohar/Sephiroth, Zohar/Sepher thing
                    > seems to be a perfect example. So often in the past six years I've
                    > seen people expressing the view that a lot of the junk was
                    > consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're talking
                    > about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more often
                    > (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a case of
                    > someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at them to
                    > experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First they cram
                    > their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as best it
                    > can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical review !
                    >
                    > Leigh
                    >
                    > Prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    > The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell's scam. . . if only
                    > Eckists would really read it and do the research! In "The Path of
                    > the Masters" (Twitchell's primary resource book) on pages 161-168
                    is
                    > a very interesting discussion of the Kabbalah. "The En Soph,
                    > therefore, was compelled to create the world in an indirect manner
                    > by ten emanations from the infinite light which he was, and in
                    which
                    > he dwelt. These ten emanations are the ten Sephiroth, or Splendors
                    > of the Infinite One... each of these Sephiroth was represented by a
                    > Divine name and by an Angelic name... During the middle ages exiled
                    > Jewry kept itself alive by various mystical interpretations of its
                    > mission and destiny as expressed in a vast Kabbalistic literature,
                    > which ultimately found its most unified, most perfect expression in
                    > the Zohar, called the 'Book of Splendor.' This book did something
                    > which even the Bible and Talmud had ignored. It discovered for the
                    > materialistic Jew a new and hitherto unknown Kingdom: the Kingdom
                    of
                    > the soul."
                    >
                    > Notice the words "Zohar" and "Sephiroth." Now let's look at the
                    > Eckankar Lexicon.
                    >
                    > "Zohar, the. ZOH-hahr A future ROOT RACE who will come from a far
                    > distant planet to colonize the world after the destruction in the
                    > twenty-first and twenty-second centuries, but they will fail and
                    > after several centuries will withdraw. See also Sepher."[pg. 243]
                    >
                    > "Sepher. SEHP-hehr The ECK Master who will be responsible for the
                    > spiritual welfare of the Zohar, the ROOT RACE who will colonize ..."
                    > [pg. 187]
                    >
                    > So, I think that we can all see how Twitch created another "Eck
                    > Master" Seph(er) and a new root race (Zohar) to go with him.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                  • prometheus_973
                    Hi Leigh, Eckankar s take on the Tisra Til and the whole chakra thing is Astral too! I was looking at another part of The Path of the Masters and saw where
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 3, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Leigh,

                      Eckankar's take on the Tisra Til and the whole chakra thing is
                      Astral too! I was looking at another part of "The Path of the
                      Masters" and saw where (pgs. 443-446) the Tisra Til is "the seat of
                      mind and soul." The (Radhasoami) Masters "begin their concentration
                      at Tisra Til, and from there they go on up. If one begins there, the
                      next station above Tisra Til is Ashta-dal-Kanwal, the lotus of eight
                      pedals, and the next above that is the true center of all the Astral
                      worlds. Its name is Sahasra-dal-Kanwal, and this is the first of the
                      great regions traversed by the Masters on their upward journey."

                      The spiritual exercise technique used most often in Eckankar, and
                      which is listed in "The Master 4 Discourses," is to use the Tisra
                      Til [a.k.a. The Third Eye; Spiritual Eye; Mind's Eye; Seat of Soul;
                      Shivanetra, the eye of Shiva; Nukta-i-saveda; the Tenth Door].

                      However, do Eckists realize that using the TISRA TIL is an ASTRAL
                      PLANE technique? I never realized it before!

                      "Sahasra-dal-Kanwal. sah-HAHS-rah-dahl-KAHN-wahl The CROWN CHAKRA,
                      the thousand-pedaled lotus; the capital city of the ASTRAL PLANE,
                      and the Mountain of Light at the top of the Astral; the powerhouse
                      of lights. Also Astral City, City of Lights." [Eckankar Lexicon,
                      pg.179]

                      Amazing! All of those years we were told that the focus on the Tisra
                      Til would get us to the Soul Plane and beyond! However, even
                      focusing on the Crown Chakra (higher than the Tisra Til) only gets
                      Soul to the top of the ASTRAL PLANE! All of those colored lights
                      (including blue) that many Eckists see... are probably from
                      the "Astral City, City of Lights!"

                      I (like most chelas) just accepted and trusted that what "they" were
                      saying was true! I never really bothered to check! Why would someone
                      lie about "Spiritual" matters, especially, when knowing about Karma!
                      Fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, shame on you... Mr. Klemp!

                      Prometheus


                      Leigh wrote:

                      Hi Prometheus:
                      That's a good piece of detective work. The Sepher/Zohar People,
                      Sephiroth/Zohar (Spendor) one. But we're also looking at a couple of
                      individual trees and missing the forest, here. Sepher, Sephiroth,
                      are cognates from the same root - sep, or sept - where our
                      word "seven" comes from also. Thr larger issue is that this is all
                      astral plane b.s. from the classical formula. That is, the astral
                      plane has seven levels, planes, or divisions in it. This goes WAY
                      back (originally) to sun worship (sunlight, when it's broken down in
                      the atmosphere by water (rain in the distance) or through the
                      convention of a prism, breaks down into the seven wavelengths that
                      compose it. Red, orange, yellow, green, indigo, blue, violet). The
                      cabala is pure astral plane b.s. used in the conventional way to try
                      to make of something of "God" or explain flux. This gets even more
                      involved when you go beyond the conventional delusion of "jivatma"
                      to "atma", "paramatma", and "adiatma". The "golden wisdom" Eckankar
                      uses and is keyed into is pure imagination. The "gold" color always
                      indicates imagination.

                      The thing is, it's all nonsense. All of this kind of stuff but has
                      been used over time by mankind to give itself a collective purpose,
                      develop cultures, and so on.

                      Leigh



                      Prometheus wrote:

                      Hi L2eigh,

                      I have to agree that this could be a factor at times. On these Zohar
                      and Sepher examples, however, I'm thinking that Twitch was in a rush
                      to create new material for his scam and used the same source
                      material for both. This is why we can see a relationship to the two
                      fabrications.

                      On the other hand, Twitch could have been playing with us and did
                      this as a game of sorts. Twitch was somewhat clever and egotistical,
                      and this might have been his way of having the last laugh on those
                      followers and critics who were more educated (Ph.Ds).

                      Also, Twitch might have assumed that no one else would have done the
                      research that he had done and would never find his source material
                      or see the correlation.

                      Another factor is, Why would anyone Not beleive him? Why would
                      Twitch lie about Rebazar Tarzs or the rest of it? Hmmmmmm. So, it
                      seems Twitch did consciously use obscure parts of anything and
                      everything and redefined it to suit his purpose at the time.

                      And, it does seem like Twitch was a compulsive liar as well! After
                      awhile his mind became so deluded that he probably couldn't even
                      decipher any real truth for himself. It seems like the double dupe
                      was doubled with delusion! It's no wonder that Eckists find most of
                      this confusing and complex and decide to just surrender their minds
                      and wills to the Klempster.

                      Prometheus

                      "l2eigh" lgrif wrote:

                      Hi Prometheus:
                      In your post to Mish you indicate how the mind produces views for us
                      out of stuff we've crammed into it. Don't you think J.P.T. was
                      falling for this as well? This Zohar/Sephiroth, Zohar/Sepher thing
                      seems to be a perfect example. So often in the past six years I've
                      seen people expressing the view that a lot of the junk was
                      consciously engineered. I think this gives the people we're talking
                      about WAY too much credit for being clever. I think far more often
                      (particularly when you look at the volume of stuff) it's a case of
                      someone spitting out something their mind had thrown up at them to
                      experience. This makes them a double dupe, really. First they cram
                      their mind full of stuff, then it kicks it back to them as best it
                      can, and THEN they believe it, as is, without any critical review !

                      Leigh

                      Prometheus wrote:
                      The Eckankar Lexicon has proof of Twitchell's scam. . . if only
                      Eckists would really read it and do the research! In "The Path of
                      the Masters" (Twitchell's primary resource book) on pages 161-168
                      is a very interesting discussion of the Kabbalah. "The En Soph,
                      therefore, was compelled to create the world in an indirect manner
                      by ten emanations from the infinite light which he was, and in which
                      he dwelt. These ten emanations are the ten Sephiroth, or Splendors
                      of the Infinite One... each of these Sephiroth was represented by a
                      Divine name and by an Angelic name... During the middle ages exiled
                      Jewry kept itself alive by various mystical interpretations of its
                      mission and destiny as expressed in a vast Kabbalistic literature,
                      which ultimately found its most unified, most perfect expression in
                      the Zohar, called the 'Book of Splendor.' This book did something
                      which even the Bible and Talmud had ignored. It discovered for the
                      materialistic Jew a new and hitherto unknown Kingdom: the Kingdom
                      of the soul."

                      Notice the words "Zohar" and "Sephiroth." Now let's look at the
                      Eckankar Lexicon.

                      "Zohar, the. ZOH-hahr A future ROOT RACE who will come from a far
                      distant planet to colonize the world after the destruction in the
                      twenty-first and twenty-second centuries, but they will fail and
                      after several centuries will withdraw. See also Sepher."[pg. 243]

                      "Sepher. SEHP-hehr The ECK Master who will be responsible for the
                      spiritual welfare of the Zohar, the ROOT RACE who will colonize ..."
                      [pg. 187]

                      So, I think that we can all see how Twitch created another "Eck
                      Master" Seph(er) and a new root race (Zohar) to go with him.
                      [Zohar/Sephiroth vs. Zohar/Sepher] Is it no wonder that the
                      existance of Rebazar Tarzs is in question as well!

                      Prometheus
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