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Re: A Repost from A.R.E.: How to keep 'em wanting more, and more, and still more

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  • ctecvie
    Hello Mish, ... *** How true ... it s an excellent promotion of Eckankar. The higher the initiations become the higher the individual rises. Or so they think
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 6, 2005
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      Hello Mish,

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
      <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
      >
      > This post by Leaf explains very well how eckists become hooked on
      > the initiations! It is the big feature in eckankar that draws the
      > masses in!

      *** How true ... it's an excellent promotion of Eckankar. The higher
      the initiations become the higher the individual rises. Or so they
      think and act ... :-)

      >The initiations are the yardstick that shows an
      > individual and others just where he stands in regards to spiritual
      > enlightenment! This is the belief and that is why the intiations
      >are
      > so much discussed among eckists and why they wear their ID tags
      > (some very proudly) at major seminars which let people know what
      > their status is--A, B, or C! LOL!

      *** In fact, it is said that initiations don't play any role and
      that they are NOT discussed. But of course they are! I was very
      surprised when I found out that one could actually see the
      initiation level on the name tags! The day my husband first wore the
      C on his name tag, a fellow eckist came up and nearly fainted from
      admiration. :-))

      >Eckists, and I was one once, allow
      > themselves to be designated one of the three at such events and
      >they
      > are in essence segregated. Some workshops and talks are only for
      >the
      > exulted "C" eckists, so a "B" or an "A" is excluded.

      I have heard a story about the HI who went to an HI meeting and when
      she came out, some "A's" and "B's" were standing waiting for her,
      and her friend asked her how it was? And then she said "as always!"
      in a way that suggested that she was bored. :-)) She has left the
      cult as well - had had serious doubts for quite some time. I always
      thought that she was such a good eckist and was very surprised to
      hear that she had left. So, you never know who is harboring doubts -
      it could be the devotest little cult borg! :-)

      >But even in >non-
      > segrated events, eckists are still in their mind segregating
      > themselves and others according to the level of initiation that is
      > denoted on that name tag. For instance, if one is in a round table
      > discussion, and a "B" person speaks, but then a "C" person gives a
      > different spin or contradicts what the "B" person said, well, who
      > will the majority of participants agree with? Well, yes, it has to
      > be that better/more enlightened "C" person!! LOL! As for an "A"
      > person, well, an "A" person might as well keep his/her mouth shut,
      > because obviously that person is not advanced far enough to share
      >an
      > opinion/experience/or belief!

      ***I have seen a very good post from "Alli" on huchat about
      initiations. She is a C person as well! LOL! But it seems not
      everybody agrees, so I think it does make a difference what the "C"
      says! If a "C" person addresses sensible issues, then A's and B's
      might not necessarily agree! LOL!

      > Also, in many round table discussions
      > the facilator (ESA)will be condenscending to those wearing "A"
      > and "B" on their badges while allowing the high initiates (the
      >ones
      > wearing the "C"s) to correct, add to, and discount comments made
      >by
      > those wearing an "A" or "B" on their badges. This is really
      >abusive
      > behavior brought on by the arrogance and delusional value of the
      > initiations.

      ***I knew an Eckist who had wonderful experiences before he even
      joined Eckankar. And he continued to have them before he was even a
      2nd initiate! When he talked about them, C's would say don't talk
      about that, it could upset others who haven't gotten so far right
      now. And sometimes, when he said something full of wisdom, C's would
      say you can't know that, you are still a 2nd, so don't even talk
      about it. Of course, had he arrived at the enlightened status of a C
      already, reactions would have been much different! :-)) I think it's
      needless to say that he isn't with the cult anymore!


      >
      > And yet so many, including myself at one time, buy the ticket for
      > this train trip. With any luck, the train derails in our minds >
      (the
      > truly enlightening experience of this particular journey) and we
      > scramble off! But still there are those who continue to sleep
      >during
      > the derailments which are the revelations of truth about the
      > eckankar cult and its fake initiations and these individuals
      > continue on the eck journey, which leads them nowhere! It is very
      > comfortable while in the process of seeking those initiations when
      > one imagines that another(mahanta) is taking care of all of
      >his/her
      > fears and troubles now and in the future and by taking credit(in
      > essence robbing the chela) for those inner and outer Soul
      > experiences that are experienced regardless of "religious"
      >belief.

      *** Yes, here it is again - the same old saviour principle that is
      so common among religions! But no, Eckankar doesn't have that
      principle of course, and of course HK isn't worshipped ... it's just
      this high consciousness ...!! So Eckists continue to lie to
      themselves, with sometimes severe consequences. ...
      >
      >
      > Some "C" eckists will not associate with anyone lower than "C"
      > level, because they fear that they will be pulled down in their
      > state of consciousness. They only acknowledge a lower leveled
      >eckist
      > and move on in their glorified state of consciousness. They will
      > snub lower initiates, especially the "A"s, and will also shun them
      > if those lower initiates dare to challenge or question what a "C"
      > does or says! It is a big no-no to question these levels of
      > initiations really--very sensitive topic if one deviates from the
      > standard spin on the eck initiations. Thus, very early on new
      > eckists learns to trend lightly on such a topic.
      >
      > Initiations are truly the carrot that the mahanta dangles on the
      > stick for the chelas. It is all too tempting and teasing for the
      > chase! It is what eckists strive for, because without such
      > symbolizing levels of initiations, how else can an eckist measure
      > his own spiritual enlightenment or that of others? Heaven forbid
      >if
      > one could figure this out for oneself!

      ***Why all those initiations if they don't show? It's as with
      titles, people love titles in my region, and like to show their BAs,
      MBAs, PhDs for which they have worked so hard! So, why not Eckists,
      too, who have worked so hard to reach this high level as well? Of
      course, real great humans don't need this kind of insignia, but many
      do!

      ***And then ... of course ... there's the membership number that has
      to be held stable or increased! Better increased! :-)) So they make
      eckists run after the carrot of initiations dangling in front of
      their noses, and when they have finally made it to the 5th, they
      become aware that it's no different to all the other initiations and
      that there's no real wisdom behind. Yes, you can gain a bit of
      wisdom if you wisen up in the process and just recognize Eckankar as
      what it is - a fraud and a scam, and just leave! That's a real
      realization then, and a successful initiation! :-))

      Ingrid
    • mishmisha9
      ... on ... the ... higher ... spiritual ... the ... ####### Very difficult to not look at the letter on the name badges-- so if they are not discussed, why is
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 7, 2005
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        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
        <ctecvie@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello Mish,
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        > <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
        > >
        > > This post by Leaf explains very well how eckists become hooked
        on
        > > the initiations! It is the big feature in eckankar that draws
        the
        > > masses in!
        >
        > *** How true ... it's an excellent promotion of Eckankar. The
        higher
        > the initiations become the higher the individual rises. Or so they
        > think and act ... :-)
        >
        > >The initiations are the yardstick that shows an
        > > individual and others just where he stands in regards to
        spiritual
        > > enlightenment! This is the belief and that is why the intiations
        > >are
        > > so much discussed among eckists and why they wear their ID tags
        > > (some very proudly) at major seminars which let people know what
        > > their status is--A, B, or C! LOL!
        >
        > *** In fact, it is said that initiations don't play any role and
        > that they are NOT discussed. But of course they are! I was very
        > surprised when I found out that one could actually see the
        > initiation level on the name tags! The day my husband first wore
        the
        > C on his name tag, a fellow eckist came up and nearly fainted from
        > admiration. :-))

        ####### Very difficult to not look at the letter on the name badges--
        so if they are not discussed, why is there the need to designate a
        level on a name badge anyway? An H.I. could show another form of
        I.D. to get into those secret H.I. meetings. I was told one isn't
        suppose to know what those letters mean--well, isn't that funny!
        This kind of reasoning is very stupid--to think that no one can
        figure it out in just a few seconds! LOL! And I can tell you for a
        fact that one of my initiations was announced after an eck worship
        service without my permission--by the local director, a 7th initiate
        who after announcing it, asked if I minded that it was announced to
        all! Obviously, announcing my level of initiation was important and
        a topic of discussion! : )

        >
        > >Eckists, and I was one once, allow
        > > themselves to be designated one of the three at such events and
        > >they
        > > are in essence segregated. Some workshops and talks are only for
        > >the
        > > exulted "C" eckists, so a "B" or an "A" is excluded.
        >
        > I have heard a story about the HI who went to an HI meeting and
        when
        > she came out, some "A's" and "B's" were standing waiting for her,
        > and her friend asked her how it was? And then she said "as
        always!"
        > in a way that suggested that she was bored. :-)) She has left the
        > cult as well - had had serious doubts for quite some time. I
        always
        > thought that she was such a good eckist and was very surprised to
        > hear that she had left. So, you never know who is harboring
        doubts -
        > it could be the devotest little cult borg! :-)
        >
        > >But even in >non-
        > > segrated events, eckists are still in their mind segregating
        > > themselves and others according to the level of initiation that
        is
        > > denoted on that name tag. For instance, if one is in a round
        table
        > > discussion, and a "B" person speaks, but then a "C" person gives
        a
        > > different spin or contradicts what the "B" person said, well,
        who
        > > will the majority of participants agree with? Well, yes, it has
        to
        > > be that better/more enlightened "C" person!! LOL! As for an "A"
        > > person, well, an "A" person might as well keep his/her mouth
        shut,
        > > because obviously that person is not advanced far enough to
        share
        > >an
        > > opinion/experience/or belief!
        >
        > ***I have seen a very good post from "Alli" on huchat about
        > initiations. She is a C person as well! LOL! But it seems not
        > everybody agrees, so I think it does make a difference what
        the "C"
        > says! If a "C" person addresses sensible issues, then A's and B's
        > might not necessarily agree! LOL!

        #### I've read some of those posts. I know those eckists on HuChat
        are not as ignorant as they sound but . . . . One person posted that
        he understood that there is the "touch technique" used in deciding
        who is ready for the next outer initiation. A chela's unopened
        initiate's report (letter) is scanned by somebody's hand, and the
        initiation is decided that way! Doesn't that sound psychic? And
        these people settle for such a non-sense explanation!

        However, it seems that the discussion of initiations is on
        everyone's mind and that there is confusion for sure on how it
        works. But it is really very simple to figure it out, just do like
        Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, look behind the curtain--it's as simple
        as that. There is nothing magical or vibrational about those bogus
        initiations--they are only an eckankar tool to keep people tied into
        the false teachings of eckankar!

        >
        > > Also, in many round table discussions
        > > the facilator (ESA)will be condenscending to those wearing "A"
        > > and "B" on their badges while allowing the high initiates (the
        > >ones
        > > wearing the "C"s) to correct, add to, and discount comments made
        > >by
        > > those wearing an "A" or "B" on their badges. This is really
        > >abusive
        > > behavior brought on by the arrogance and delusional value of the
        > > initiations.
        >
        > ***I knew an Eckist who had wonderful experiences before he even
        > joined Eckankar. And he continued to have them before he was even
        a
        > 2nd initiate! When he talked about them, C's would say don't talk
        > about that, it could upset others who haven't gotten so far right
        > now. And sometimes, when he said something full of wisdom, C's
        would
        > say you can't know that, you are still a 2nd, so don't even talk
        > about it. Of course, had he arrived at the enlightened status of a
        C
        > already, reactions would have been much different! :-)) I think
        it's
        > needless to say that he isn't with the cult anymore!
        >

        #### The higher initiates couldn't handle the reality that one did
        not have to reach a higher initiation level in order to have those
        spiritual experiences and knowledge. Such new comers to the eck
        teachings threatened the whole belief system--especially, if those
        higher initiates had not and were not having such experiences.

        Did you ever wonder why Klemp always tells such simple stories? My
        guess is that he also lacks true spiritual enlightening
        experiences. : )

        >
        > >
        > > And yet so many, including myself at one time, buy the ticket
        for
        > > this train trip. With any luck, the train derails in our minds >
        > (the
        > > truly enlightening experience of this particular journey) and we
        > > scramble off! But still there are those who continue to sleep
        > >during
        > > the derailments which are the revelations of truth about the
        > > eckankar cult and its fake initiations and these individuals
        > > continue on the eck journey, which leads them nowhere! It is
        very
        > > comfortable while in the process of seeking those initiations
        when
        > > one imagines that another(mahanta) is taking care of all of
        > >his/her
        > > fears and troubles now and in the future and by taking credit(in
        > > essence robbing the chela) for those inner and outer Soul
        > > experiences that are experienced regardless of "religious"
        > >belief.
        >
        > *** Yes, here it is again - the same old saviour principle that is
        > so common among religions! But no, Eckankar doesn't have that
        > principle of course, and of course HK isn't worshipped ... it's
        just
        > this high consciousness ...!! So Eckists continue to lie to
        > themselves, with sometimes severe consequences. ...
        > >
        > >
        > > Some "C" eckists will not associate with anyone lower than "C"
        > > level, because they fear that they will be pulled down in their
        > > state of consciousness. They only acknowledge a lower leveled
        > >eckist
        > > and move on in their glorified state of consciousness. They will
        > > snub lower initiates, especially the "A"s, and will also shun
        them
        > > if those lower initiates dare to challenge or question what
        a "C"
        > > does or says! It is a big no-no to question these levels of
        > > initiations really--very sensitive topic if one deviates from
        the
        > > standard spin on the eck initiations. Thus, very early on new
        > > eckists learns to trend lightly on such a topic.
        > >
        > > Initiations are truly the carrot that the mahanta dangles on the
        > > stick for the chelas. It is all too tempting and teasing for the
        > > chase! It is what eckists strive for, because without such
        > > symbolizing levels of initiations, how else can an eckist
        measure
        > > his own spiritual enlightenment or that of others? Heaven forbid
        > >if
        > > one could figure this out for oneself!
        >
        > ***Why all those initiations if they don't show? It's as with
        > titles, people love titles in my region, and like to show their
        BAs,
        > MBAs, PhDs for which they have worked so hard! So, why not
        Eckists,
        > too, who have worked so hard to reach this high level as well? Of
        > course, real great humans don't need this kind of insignia, but
        many
        > do!

        ### The initiations inflate the ego of these individuals who apply
        value to the initiation levels. And I think the initiation level one
        has attained while in eck is the hardest thing to give up after
        dropping out of the eckankar--well, that is if you have reached H.I.
        status! I believe this is why some people struggle with giving up
        some of the eck teachings--some former eckists just cannot let go of
        the sense that they are more spiritually enlightened than the
        general population! So much time and effort was spent to achieve
        that status, so it is quite difficult to let it go! But until you
        let go of all of it, including the initiation-think, a person will
        never be free--he/she will still be caught in the eck trap! IMO!

        >
        > ***And then ... of course ... there's the membership number that
        has
        > to be held stable or increased! Better increased! :-)) So they
        make
        > eckists run after the carrot of initiations dangling in front of
        > their noses, and when they have finally made it to the 5th, they
        > become aware that it's no different to all the other initiations
        and
        > that there's no real wisdom behind. Yes, you can gain a bit of
        > wisdom if you wisen up in the process and just recognize Eckankar
        as
        > what it is - a fraud and a scam, and just leave! That's a real
        > realization then, and a successful initiation! :-))
        >
        > Ingrid
        >

        #### Ingrid, I do like your definition of a successful initiation
        best! Realizing the faud and the scam that eckankar is! : )

        Mish
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