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A Repost from A.R.E.: How to keep 'em wanting more, and more, and still more

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  • mishmisha9
    This is a repost from A.R.E. by Leaf, How to keep em wanting more and more, and still more. It is also reposted on Eck Chains. It is quite good and well
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 5, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      This is a repost from A.R.E. by Leaf, "How to keep 'em wanting more
      and more, and still more. It is also reposted on Eck Chains. It is
      quite good and well worth reading!


      Religion > Eckankar > How to keep 'em...


      How to keep 'em wanting more, and more, and still more
      by "leaf" <kentaddleman@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Nov 4, 2005 at 07:22 PM


      Pseudo identity: an identity or persona one takes on that is not
      genuine or is not reflective of one's true nature or character.

      Do members of Eckankar take on pseudo-identities? I think much of
      thisdepends on whether one believes that the Eckankar initiations
      are validlink-ups with the spiritual force or not. Since, in my
      opinion based on years of experience as a member, the initiations
      are pseudo, then it follows that those who receive them, and believe
      as a result that they have attained the vast understanding and all
      encompassing awareness of a savior, have deluded themselves, and
      have taken on a pseudo persona which is intended to reflect the
      super-conscious state of Spiritual Mastership. The rational is as
      follows: I have received the fifth initation, which links me up to
      spirit on the level of the corresponding fifth plane, the first
      world of pure Spirit and truth. This plane is beyond the world's
      philosophies and religions, and one generally needs the link-up from
      the Mahanta to arrive at the shores of this world. The Living Eck
      Master has honored me with this initiation, so therefore I must have
      earned it, and I must be ready, or it wouldn't have been given.
      There are no accidents or coincidences, therefore, I am a Mahdis,
      initiate of the Soul plane of awareness, the plane of true Self-
      Realization.

      Now, since the initiation is actually nothing more than a ceremony,
      and- does not - in fact, turn the initiatee into an Enlightened One,
      a Self-Realized being, then we have an interesting situation that
      results from the conflict between reality and delusion. An
      individual having received the fifth initiation begins to take on
      the persona of an Enlightened Mahdis, a person from whom others can
      receive wise counsel, spiritual blessings or nourishment. Because
      the initiatee has not genuinely reached the exalted state, an inner
      conflict may develop in which a person tries to artificially present
      himself as a being free from humanity's frailties and faults, so the
      divine qualities which differentiate the enlightened from the
      unenlightened need to be maximized in the new persona, while any
      negative qualities (in all the forms in which these may subtly
      manifest), need to be minimized.

      Therefore, the individual takes on an all-knowing persona of an
      individual without fear or troubles; someone who is free of most, if
      not all, karma; the consumate, contented wise one who sees all of the
      inner workings of life; someone who is in league with galaxy-romping
      inner masters; a healer of sorts who can give aid, advice, teachings,
      divine insights, and is above the trappings and mental ratiocination
      (Twitchell's word) of mere hidebound mortals, while simultaneously
      suppressing and dissavowing unwanted and revealing persona-busting
      emotions such as anger, frustration, dissapointment, disillusionment,
      impatience, attachment, worry, irritability, fear, apprehension,
      anxiety, lust, vanity, pride, selfishness, greed, insecurity,
      insatiation, dissatisfaction, etc..

      What results can vary from person to person, it seems. Some become
      stiff and lacking in spontaneous emotional expression, since the
      emotions are being carefully monitored for "negativity" and
      substantial editing is taking place. Some, in accentuating the
      positive spiritual traits, become intolerably sanctimonious and
      preachy, the all too familiar 'holier than thou' Eckist who has let
      the image of sainthood consume him or her. Some, I think, may become
      a little schizoid, vaccilating between two personas, one which is
      holy and pure while with other org members at Eckankar events, and
      one which expresses the human side at home with family. To say the
      least, the development of such artificial pseudo personalities or
      identities is not at all a healthy thing to foster, and can lead to
      a host of conflicts, all of which become subject to further
      suppression and denial. Such a state can be the source of very real
      hindrances or blockages in one's personal life. And I agree that
      having experienced any of these conflicts does make it easy to spot
      them in others, once one has dropped the need for the persona.

      Also, I think the development of the persona begins the moment a
      person becomes a member, for one is given the promise of these
      attainments from the outset, and with each initiation, the illusion
      of Mastership draws nearer and nearer, gradually accustomizing the
      devotee to the notion that s/he is becoming an Enlightened One. The
      second initiation is said by Twitchell to have been the highest
      initiation attained by Jesus Christ, and the fourth initiation is
      said to be the highest level attained by the founders of the worlds
      major religions and philosophies. With these 'lower' initiations,
      Eckankar followers believe they are well on their way to the
      extroardinary status of perfect Self-Realization. They are
      the 'Chosen Ones,' gathered together by the Mahanta to take their
      places in Heaven, having earned the priviledge in a multitude of
      previous incarnations.

      Twitchell, and now his successor, Klemp, spin a mighty captivating
      web, shrewdly handing out the delectable goodies a little at a time
      at every step of the way, so that when the ultimate is achieved at
      the fifth initiation, the initiate is not at all in doubt that true
      attaiment has been realized. And thus do the games begin.

      Leaf
    • mishmisha9
      This post by Leaf explains very well how eckists become hooked on the initiations! It is the big feature in eckankar that draws the masses in! The initiations
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 6, 2005
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        This post by Leaf explains very well how eckists become hooked on
        the initiations! It is the big feature in eckankar that draws the
        masses in! The initiations are the yardstick that shows an
        individual and others just where he stands in regards to spiritual
        enlightenment! This is the belief and that is why the intiations are
        so much discussed among eckists and why they wear their ID tags
        (some very proudly) at major seminars which let people know what
        their status is--A, B, or C! LOL! Eckists, and I was one once, allow
        themselves to be designated one of the three at such events and they
        are in essence segregated. Some workshops and talks are only for the
        exulted "C" eckists, so a "B" or an "A" is excluded. But even in non-
        segrated events, eckists are still in their mind segregating
        themselves and others according to the level of initiation that is
        denoted on that name tag. For instance, if one is in a round table
        discussion, and a "B" person speaks, but then a "C" person gives a
        different spin or contradicts what the "B" person said, well, who
        will the majority of participants agree with? Well, yes, it has to
        be that better/more enlightened "C" person!! LOL! As for an "A"
        person, well, an "A" person might as well keep his/her mouth shut,
        because obviously that person is not advanced far enough to share an
        opinion/experience/or belief! Also, in many round table discussions
        the facilator (ESA)will be condenscending to those wearing "A"
        and "B" on their badges while allowing the high initiates (the ones
        wearing the "C"s) to correct, add to, and discount comments made by
        those wearing an "A" or "B" on their badges. This is really abusive
        behavior brought on by the arrogance and delusional value of the
        initiations.

        And yet so many, including myself at one time, buy the ticket for
        this train trip. With any luck, the train derails in our minds (the
        truly enlightening experience of this particular journey) and we
        scramble off! But still there are those who continue to sleep during
        the derailments which are the revelations of truth about the
        eckankar cult and its fake initiations and these individuals
        continue on the eck journey, which leads them nowhere! It is very
        comfortable while in the process of seeking those initiations when
        one imagines that another(mahanta) is taking care of all of his/her
        fears and troubles now and in the future and by taking credit(in
        essence robbing the chela) for those inner and outer Soul
        experiences that are experienced regardless of "religious" belief.


        Some "C" eckists will not associate with anyone lower than "C"
        level, because they fear that they will be pulled down in their
        state of consciousness. They only acknowledge a lower leveled eckist
        and move on in their glorified state of consciousness. They will
        snub lower initiates, especially the "A"s, and will also shun them
        if those lower initiates dare to challenge or question what a "C"
        does or says! It is a big no-no to question these levels of
        initiations really--very sensitive topic if one deviates from the
        standard spin on the eck initiations. Thus, very early on new
        eckists learns to trend lightly on such a topic.

        Initiations are truly the carrot that the mahanta dangles on the
        stick for the chelas. It is all too tempting and teasing for the
        chase! It is what eckists strive for, because without such
        symbolizing levels of initiations, how else can an eckist measure
        his own spiritual enlightenment or that of others? Heaven forbid if
        one could figure this out for oneself!

        So, what Leaf says in this post is all so very true! Eckists do take
        on pseudo identities--that are not "genuine" and not "reflective" of
        their "true nature and character." It's all about those
        bogus/fraudulent initiations! The crime is the amount of time
        eckists devote to chasing that carrot on a stick--and yes, of
        course, the money they spend in participating in that chase for
        initiation levels! : )

        Mish


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
        <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
        >
        > This is a repost from A.R.E. by Leaf, "How to keep 'em wanting
        more
        > and more, and still more. It is also reposted on Eck Chains. It is
        > quite good and well worth reading!
        >
        >
        > Religion > Eckankar > How to keep 'em...
        >
        >
        > How to keep 'em wanting more, and more, and still more
        > by "leaf" <kentaddleman@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Nov 4, 2005 at 07:22 PM
        >
        >
        > Pseudo identity: an identity or persona one takes on that is not
        > genuine or is not reflective of one's true nature or character.
        >
        > Do members of Eckankar take on pseudo-identities? I think much of
        > thisdepends on whether one believes that the Eckankar initiations
        > are validlink-ups with the spiritual force or not. Since, in my
        > opinion based on years of experience as a member, the initiations
        > are pseudo, then it follows that those who receive them, and
        believe
        > as a result that they have attained the vast understanding and all
        > encompassing awareness of a savior, have deluded themselves, and
        > have taken on a pseudo persona which is intended to reflect the
        > super-conscious state of Spiritual Mastership. The rational is as
        > follows: I have received the fifth initation, which links me up to
        > spirit on the level of the corresponding fifth plane, the first
        > world of pure Spirit and truth. This plane is beyond the world's
        > philosophies and religions, and one generally needs the link-up
        from
        > the Mahanta to arrive at the shores of this world. The Living Eck
        > Master has honored me with this initiation, so therefore I must
        have
        > earned it, and I must be ready, or it wouldn't have been given.
        > There are no accidents or coincidences, therefore, I am a Mahdis,
        > initiate of the Soul plane of awareness, the plane of true Self-
        > Realization.
        >
        > Now, since the initiation is actually nothing more than a
        ceremony,
        > and- does not - in fact, turn the initiatee into an Enlightened
        One,
        > a Self-Realized being, then we have an interesting situation that
        > results from the conflict between reality and delusion. An
        > individual having received the fifth initiation begins to take on
        > the persona of an Enlightened Mahdis, a person from whom others
        can
        > receive wise counsel, spiritual blessings or nourishment. Because
        > the initiatee has not genuinely reached the exalted state, an
        inner
        > conflict may develop in which a person tries to artificially
        present
        > himself as a being free from humanity's frailties and faults, so
        the
        > divine qualities which differentiate the enlightened from the
        > unenlightened need to be maximized in the new persona, while any
        > negative qualities (in all the forms in which these may subtly
        > manifest), need to be minimized.
        >
        > Therefore, the individual takes on an all-knowing persona of an
        > individual without fear or troubles; someone who is free of most,
        if
        > not all, karma; the consumate, contented wise one who sees all of
        the
        > inner workings of life; someone who is in league with galaxy-
        romping
        > inner masters; a healer of sorts who can give aid, advice,
        teachings,
        > divine insights, and is above the trappings and mental
        ratiocination
        > (Twitchell's word) of mere hidebound mortals, while simultaneously
        > suppressing and dissavowing unwanted and revealing persona-busting
        > emotions such as anger, frustration, dissapointment,
        disillusionment,
        > impatience, attachment, worry, irritability, fear, apprehension,
        > anxiety, lust, vanity, pride, selfishness, greed, insecurity,
        > insatiation, dissatisfaction, etc..
        >
        > What results can vary from person to person, it seems. Some become
        > stiff and lacking in spontaneous emotional expression, since the
        > emotions are being carefully monitored for "negativity" and
        > substantial editing is taking place. Some, in accentuating the
        > positive spiritual traits, become intolerably sanctimonious and
        > preachy, the all too familiar 'holier than thou' Eckist who has
        let
        > the image of sainthood consume him or her. Some, I think, may
        become
        > a little schizoid, vaccilating between two personas, one which is
        > holy and pure while with other org members at Eckankar events, and
        > one which expresses the human side at home with family. To say the
        > least, the development of such artificial pseudo personalities or
        > identities is not at all a healthy thing to foster, and can lead
        to
        > a host of conflicts, all of which become subject to further
        > suppression and denial. Such a state can be the source of very
        real
        > hindrances or blockages in one's personal life. And I agree that
        > having experienced any of these conflicts does make it easy to
        spot
        > them in others, once one has dropped the need for the persona.
        >
        > Also, I think the development of the persona begins the moment a
        > person becomes a member, for one is given the promise of these
        > attainments from the outset, and with each initiation, the
        illusion
        > of Mastership draws nearer and nearer, gradually accustomizing the
        > devotee to the notion that s/he is becoming an Enlightened One.
        The
        > second initiation is said by Twitchell to have been the highest
        > initiation attained by Jesus Christ, and the fourth initiation is
        > said to be the highest level attained by the founders of the
        worlds
        > major religions and philosophies. With these 'lower' initiations,
        > Eckankar followers believe they are well on their way to the
        > extroardinary status of perfect Self-Realization. They are
        > the 'Chosen Ones,' gathered together by the Mahanta to take their
        > places in Heaven, having earned the priviledge in a multitude of
        > previous incarnations.
        >
        > Twitchell, and now his successor, Klemp, spin a mighty captivating
        > web, shrewdly handing out the delectable goodies a little at a
        time
        > at every step of the way, so that when the ultimate is achieved at
        > the fifth initiation, the initiate is not at all in doubt that
        true
        > attaiment has been realized. And thus do the games begin.
        >
        > Leaf
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi All, I found this to be an excellent post by Leaf, and wanted to share some thoughts that I jotted down as I read through it. It seems that the Eck
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 6, 2005
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          Hi All,

          I found this to be an excellent post by Leaf, and wanted to share
          some thoughts that I jotted down as I read through it.

          It seems that the Eck Initiations are more of Wishful Thinking and
          Acting "AS IF" than anything else. Eckists are encouraged to use and
          live in their imaginations while viewing Klemp as their own private
          Saviour. But, in reality Klemp is only a psedo master likened to the
          Wizard of Oz. This acting AS IF is to create self-fulfilling
          prophecies which is all mental energy (imagination) and is Not based
          upon true spiritual consciousness. One is only playing out the role
          within the Eckankar hierarchy and in one's own mind as any actor
          would.

          Promised Mastership (in Eckankar) is illusion. All religions make
          promises to their followers and Eckankar is no exception to this
          fact... this is the norm! Religions require the believers to
          surrender and to disassociate with reality in order to invent a
          better reality (multiple new heavens and promised lands). Just look
          around and see the factors that all religions have in common! It's
          really a no brainer!

          Eckists strive to become whole and "complete" by fitting in, and
          living up to Klemp's expectations of them. It's always more and more
          busy work to keep those minds from being too idle and giving too
          much thought to Klemp's comments or to the words and behavior of
          other H.I.s. If only the Eckist did those Spiritual Exercises on a
          daily basis would they see the promises fulfilled! But then again,
          look at James Davis! Look at his experiences with what he thought
          was the Mahanta!

          Here's a quote from Peter Anton's notes of Klemp's 2005 Eckankar
          World Wide Seminar talk: "I think if anyone has doubts about the Eck
          Masters, they haven't been doing their spiritual exercises. Now I'm
          speaking of Eckists, you know... Sometimes people come up to me and
          say, It isn't working!... and I said, Then neither are you."
          However, James Davis did his Spiritual Exercises and finally
          realized that what he thought was the Mahanta was in reality his own
          Soul and that of SPIRIT communicating with his human consciousness!
          There is no Mahanta unless we want to believe that there is!

          Eckankar dogma does widen the gap between personas and exacerbates
          delusional schizoid thought and behaviors. The CoWorker concept, law
          unto one's self, surrendering, acting 'as if' and total reliance
          upon the Mahanta for all decisions just bring one to a state of
          denial, delusion, and dependence that is as addicting and habit
          forming as are drugs. It is no wonder then that religion has been
          called the "opiate of the people."

          Really though, Eckankar is not a unique religion! It is modeled
          after all religions, and Klemp has given it even more of a
          fundamentalist (King James version) Christian twist since Twitchell
          created it. The reason Eckists think that they have the most "direct
          path" to God-Realization is because they want to believe it, and
          because Klemp takes credit (as the Mahanta) for every "spiritual"
          dream and "spiritual" experience the chela has. The mind can do a
          lot of things and is extremely powerful, but is also subject to the
          suggestions and impressions of others and what it wants to accept as
          real and truthful. These mental impressions and feelings are what
          people like Twitchell and Klemp and those of other religions count
          on when distorting the truth when religious dogma is first created.
          The truth is that people can find their own way through Self
          discovery. And there is some truth found everywhere, but be
          cautious... that is also what makes the lies so believable.

          Prometheus




          Mish wrote:
          This is a repost from A.R.E. by Leaf, "How to keep 'em wanting more
          and more, and still more. It is also reposted on Eck Chains. It is
          quite good and well worth reading!


          Religion > Eckankar > How to keep 'em...


          How to keep 'em wanting more, and more, and still more
          by "leaf" <kentaddleman@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Nov 4, 2005 at 07:22 PM


          Pseudo identity: an identity or persona one takes on that is not
          genuine or is not reflective of one's true nature or character.

          Do members of Eckankar take on pseudo-identities? I think much of
          this depends on whether one believes that the Eckankar initiations
          are valid link-ups with the spiritual force or not. Since, in my
          opinion based on years of experience as a member, the initiations
          are pseudo, then it follows that those who receive them, and believe
          as a result that they have attained the vast understanding and all
          encompassing awareness of a savior, have deluded themselves, and
          have taken on a pseudo persona which is intended to reflect the
          super-conscious state of Spiritual Mastership. The rational is as
          follows: I have received the fifth initation, which links me up to
          spirit on the level of the corresponding fifth plane, the first
          world of pure Spirit and truth. This plane is beyond the world's
          philosophies and religions, and one generally needs the link-up from
          the Mahanta to arrive at the shores of this world. The Living Eck
          Master has honored me with this initiation, so therefore I must have
          earned it, and I must be ready, or it wouldn't have been given.
          There are no accidents or coincidences, therefore, I am a Mahdis,
          initiate of the Soul plane of awareness, the plane of true Self-
          Realization.

          Now, since the initiation is actually nothing more than a ceremony,
          and- does not - in fact, turn the initiatee into an Enlightened One,
          a Self-Realized being, then we have an interesting situation that
          results from the conflict between reality and delusion. An
          individual having received the fifth initiation begins to take on
          the persona of an Enlightened Mahdis, a person from whom others can
          receive wise counsel, spiritual blessings or nourishment. Because
          the initiatee has not genuinely reached the exalted state, an inner
          conflict may develop in which a person tries to artificially present
          himself as a being free from humanity's frailties and faults, so the
          divine qualities which differentiate the enlightened from the
          unenlightened need to be maximized in the new persona, while any
          negative qualities (in all the forms in which these may subtly
          manifest), need to be minimized.

          Therefore, the individual takes on an all-knowing persona of an
          individual without fear or troubles; someone who is free of most, if
          not all, karma; the consumate, contented wise one who sees all of the
          inner workings of life; someone who is in league with galaxy-romping
          inner masters; a healer of sorts who can give aid, advice, teachings,
          divine insights, and is above the trappings and mental ratiocination
          (Twitchell's word) of mere hidebound mortals, while simultaneously
          suppressing and dissavowing unwanted and revealing persona-busting
          emotions such as anger, frustration, dissapointment, disillusionment,
          impatience, attachment, worry, irritability, fear, apprehension,
          anxiety, lust, vanity, pride, selfishness, greed, insecurity,
          insatiation, dissatisfaction, etc..

          What results can vary from person to person, it seems. Some become
          stiff and lacking in spontaneous emotional expression, since the
          emotions are being carefully monitored for "negativity" and
          substantial editing is taking place. Some, in accentuating the
          positive spiritual traits, become intolerably sanctimonious and
          preachy, the all too familiar 'holier than thou' Eckist who has let
          the image of sainthood consume him or her. Some, I think, may become
          a little schizoid, vaccilating between two personas, one which is
          holy and pure while with other org members at Eckankar events, and
          one which expresses the human side at home with family. To say the
          least, the development of such artificial pseudo personalities or
          identities is not at all a healthy thing to foster, and can lead to
          a host of conflicts, all of which become subject to further
          suppression and denial. Such a state can be the source of very real
          hindrances or blockages in one's personal life. And I agree that
          having experienced any of these conflicts does make it easy to spot
          them in others, once one has dropped the need for the persona.

          Also, I think the development of the persona begins the moment a
          person becomes a member, for one is given the promise of these
          attainments from the outset, and with each initiation, the illusion
          of Mastership draws nearer and nearer, gradually accustomizing the
          devotee to the notion that s/he is becoming an Enlightened One. The
          second initiation is said by Twitchell to have been the highest
          initiation attained by Jesus Christ, and the fourth initiation is
          said to be the highest level attained by the founders of the worlds
          major religions and philosophies. With these 'lower' initiations,
          Eckankar followers believe they are well on their way to the
          extroardinary status of perfect Self-Realization. They are
          the 'Chosen Ones,' gathered together by the Mahanta to take their
          places in Heaven, having earned the priviledge in a multitude of
          previous incarnations.

          Twitchell, and now his successor, Klemp, spin a mighty captivating
          web, shrewdly handing out the delectable goodies a little at a time
          at every step of the way, so that when the ultimate is achieved at
          the fifth initiation, the initiate is not at all in doubt that true
          attaiment has been realized. And thus do the games begin.

          Leaf
        • ctecvie
          Hello Mish, ... *** How true ... it s an excellent promotion of Eckankar. The higher the initiations become the higher the individual rises. Or so they think
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 6, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Mish,

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
            <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
            >
            > This post by Leaf explains very well how eckists become hooked on
            > the initiations! It is the big feature in eckankar that draws the
            > masses in!

            *** How true ... it's an excellent promotion of Eckankar. The higher
            the initiations become the higher the individual rises. Or so they
            think and act ... :-)

            >The initiations are the yardstick that shows an
            > individual and others just where he stands in regards to spiritual
            > enlightenment! This is the belief and that is why the intiations
            >are
            > so much discussed among eckists and why they wear their ID tags
            > (some very proudly) at major seminars which let people know what
            > their status is--A, B, or C! LOL!

            *** In fact, it is said that initiations don't play any role and
            that they are NOT discussed. But of course they are! I was very
            surprised when I found out that one could actually see the
            initiation level on the name tags! The day my husband first wore the
            C on his name tag, a fellow eckist came up and nearly fainted from
            admiration. :-))

            >Eckists, and I was one once, allow
            > themselves to be designated one of the three at such events and
            >they
            > are in essence segregated. Some workshops and talks are only for
            >the
            > exulted "C" eckists, so a "B" or an "A" is excluded.

            I have heard a story about the HI who went to an HI meeting and when
            she came out, some "A's" and "B's" were standing waiting for her,
            and her friend asked her how it was? And then she said "as always!"
            in a way that suggested that she was bored. :-)) She has left the
            cult as well - had had serious doubts for quite some time. I always
            thought that she was such a good eckist and was very surprised to
            hear that she had left. So, you never know who is harboring doubts -
            it could be the devotest little cult borg! :-)

            >But even in >non-
            > segrated events, eckists are still in their mind segregating
            > themselves and others according to the level of initiation that is
            > denoted on that name tag. For instance, if one is in a round table
            > discussion, and a "B" person speaks, but then a "C" person gives a
            > different spin or contradicts what the "B" person said, well, who
            > will the majority of participants agree with? Well, yes, it has to
            > be that better/more enlightened "C" person!! LOL! As for an "A"
            > person, well, an "A" person might as well keep his/her mouth shut,
            > because obviously that person is not advanced far enough to share
            >an
            > opinion/experience/or belief!

            ***I have seen a very good post from "Alli" on huchat about
            initiations. She is a C person as well! LOL! But it seems not
            everybody agrees, so I think it does make a difference what the "C"
            says! If a "C" person addresses sensible issues, then A's and B's
            might not necessarily agree! LOL!

            > Also, in many round table discussions
            > the facilator (ESA)will be condenscending to those wearing "A"
            > and "B" on their badges while allowing the high initiates (the
            >ones
            > wearing the "C"s) to correct, add to, and discount comments made
            >by
            > those wearing an "A" or "B" on their badges. This is really
            >abusive
            > behavior brought on by the arrogance and delusional value of the
            > initiations.

            ***I knew an Eckist who had wonderful experiences before he even
            joined Eckankar. And he continued to have them before he was even a
            2nd initiate! When he talked about them, C's would say don't talk
            about that, it could upset others who haven't gotten so far right
            now. And sometimes, when he said something full of wisdom, C's would
            say you can't know that, you are still a 2nd, so don't even talk
            about it. Of course, had he arrived at the enlightened status of a C
            already, reactions would have been much different! :-)) I think it's
            needless to say that he isn't with the cult anymore!


            >
            > And yet so many, including myself at one time, buy the ticket for
            > this train trip. With any luck, the train derails in our minds >
            (the
            > truly enlightening experience of this particular journey) and we
            > scramble off! But still there are those who continue to sleep
            >during
            > the derailments which are the revelations of truth about the
            > eckankar cult and its fake initiations and these individuals
            > continue on the eck journey, which leads them nowhere! It is very
            > comfortable while in the process of seeking those initiations when
            > one imagines that another(mahanta) is taking care of all of
            >his/her
            > fears and troubles now and in the future and by taking credit(in
            > essence robbing the chela) for those inner and outer Soul
            > experiences that are experienced regardless of "religious"
            >belief.

            *** Yes, here it is again - the same old saviour principle that is
            so common among religions! But no, Eckankar doesn't have that
            principle of course, and of course HK isn't worshipped ... it's just
            this high consciousness ...!! So Eckists continue to lie to
            themselves, with sometimes severe consequences. ...
            >
            >
            > Some "C" eckists will not associate with anyone lower than "C"
            > level, because they fear that they will be pulled down in their
            > state of consciousness. They only acknowledge a lower leveled
            >eckist
            > and move on in their glorified state of consciousness. They will
            > snub lower initiates, especially the "A"s, and will also shun them
            > if those lower initiates dare to challenge or question what a "C"
            > does or says! It is a big no-no to question these levels of
            > initiations really--very sensitive topic if one deviates from the
            > standard spin on the eck initiations. Thus, very early on new
            > eckists learns to trend lightly on such a topic.
            >
            > Initiations are truly the carrot that the mahanta dangles on the
            > stick for the chelas. It is all too tempting and teasing for the
            > chase! It is what eckists strive for, because without such
            > symbolizing levels of initiations, how else can an eckist measure
            > his own spiritual enlightenment or that of others? Heaven forbid
            >if
            > one could figure this out for oneself!

            ***Why all those initiations if they don't show? It's as with
            titles, people love titles in my region, and like to show their BAs,
            MBAs, PhDs for which they have worked so hard! So, why not Eckists,
            too, who have worked so hard to reach this high level as well? Of
            course, real great humans don't need this kind of insignia, but many
            do!

            ***And then ... of course ... there's the membership number that has
            to be held stable or increased! Better increased! :-)) So they make
            eckists run after the carrot of initiations dangling in front of
            their noses, and when they have finally made it to the 5th, they
            become aware that it's no different to all the other initiations and
            that there's no real wisdom behind. Yes, you can gain a bit of
            wisdom if you wisen up in the process and just recognize Eckankar as
            what it is - a fraud and a scam, and just leave! That's a real
            realization then, and a successful initiation! :-))

            Ingrid
          • mishmisha9
            ... on ... the ... higher ... spiritual ... the ... ####### Very difficult to not look at the letter on the name badges-- so if they are not discussed, why is
            Message 5 of 5 , Nov 7, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "ctecvie"
              <ctecvie@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Mish,
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "mishmisha9"
              > <mishmisha9@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > This post by Leaf explains very well how eckists become hooked
              on
              > > the initiations! It is the big feature in eckankar that draws
              the
              > > masses in!
              >
              > *** How true ... it's an excellent promotion of Eckankar. The
              higher
              > the initiations become the higher the individual rises. Or so they
              > think and act ... :-)
              >
              > >The initiations are the yardstick that shows an
              > > individual and others just where he stands in regards to
              spiritual
              > > enlightenment! This is the belief and that is why the intiations
              > >are
              > > so much discussed among eckists and why they wear their ID tags
              > > (some very proudly) at major seminars which let people know what
              > > their status is--A, B, or C! LOL!
              >
              > *** In fact, it is said that initiations don't play any role and
              > that they are NOT discussed. But of course they are! I was very
              > surprised when I found out that one could actually see the
              > initiation level on the name tags! The day my husband first wore
              the
              > C on his name tag, a fellow eckist came up and nearly fainted from
              > admiration. :-))

              ####### Very difficult to not look at the letter on the name badges--
              so if they are not discussed, why is there the need to designate a
              level on a name badge anyway? An H.I. could show another form of
              I.D. to get into those secret H.I. meetings. I was told one isn't
              suppose to know what those letters mean--well, isn't that funny!
              This kind of reasoning is very stupid--to think that no one can
              figure it out in just a few seconds! LOL! And I can tell you for a
              fact that one of my initiations was announced after an eck worship
              service without my permission--by the local director, a 7th initiate
              who after announcing it, asked if I minded that it was announced to
              all! Obviously, announcing my level of initiation was important and
              a topic of discussion! : )

              >
              > >Eckists, and I was one once, allow
              > > themselves to be designated one of the three at such events and
              > >they
              > > are in essence segregated. Some workshops and talks are only for
              > >the
              > > exulted "C" eckists, so a "B" or an "A" is excluded.
              >
              > I have heard a story about the HI who went to an HI meeting and
              when
              > she came out, some "A's" and "B's" were standing waiting for her,
              > and her friend asked her how it was? And then she said "as
              always!"
              > in a way that suggested that she was bored. :-)) She has left the
              > cult as well - had had serious doubts for quite some time. I
              always
              > thought that she was such a good eckist and was very surprised to
              > hear that she had left. So, you never know who is harboring
              doubts -
              > it could be the devotest little cult borg! :-)
              >
              > >But even in >non-
              > > segrated events, eckists are still in their mind segregating
              > > themselves and others according to the level of initiation that
              is
              > > denoted on that name tag. For instance, if one is in a round
              table
              > > discussion, and a "B" person speaks, but then a "C" person gives
              a
              > > different spin or contradicts what the "B" person said, well,
              who
              > > will the majority of participants agree with? Well, yes, it has
              to
              > > be that better/more enlightened "C" person!! LOL! As for an "A"
              > > person, well, an "A" person might as well keep his/her mouth
              shut,
              > > because obviously that person is not advanced far enough to
              share
              > >an
              > > opinion/experience/or belief!
              >
              > ***I have seen a very good post from "Alli" on huchat about
              > initiations. She is a C person as well! LOL! But it seems not
              > everybody agrees, so I think it does make a difference what
              the "C"
              > says! If a "C" person addresses sensible issues, then A's and B's
              > might not necessarily agree! LOL!

              #### I've read some of those posts. I know those eckists on HuChat
              are not as ignorant as they sound but . . . . One person posted that
              he understood that there is the "touch technique" used in deciding
              who is ready for the next outer initiation. A chela's unopened
              initiate's report (letter) is scanned by somebody's hand, and the
              initiation is decided that way! Doesn't that sound psychic? And
              these people settle for such a non-sense explanation!

              However, it seems that the discussion of initiations is on
              everyone's mind and that there is confusion for sure on how it
              works. But it is really very simple to figure it out, just do like
              Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, look behind the curtain--it's as simple
              as that. There is nothing magical or vibrational about those bogus
              initiations--they are only an eckankar tool to keep people tied into
              the false teachings of eckankar!

              >
              > > Also, in many round table discussions
              > > the facilator (ESA)will be condenscending to those wearing "A"
              > > and "B" on their badges while allowing the high initiates (the
              > >ones
              > > wearing the "C"s) to correct, add to, and discount comments made
              > >by
              > > those wearing an "A" or "B" on their badges. This is really
              > >abusive
              > > behavior brought on by the arrogance and delusional value of the
              > > initiations.
              >
              > ***I knew an Eckist who had wonderful experiences before he even
              > joined Eckankar. And he continued to have them before he was even
              a
              > 2nd initiate! When he talked about them, C's would say don't talk
              > about that, it could upset others who haven't gotten so far right
              > now. And sometimes, when he said something full of wisdom, C's
              would
              > say you can't know that, you are still a 2nd, so don't even talk
              > about it. Of course, had he arrived at the enlightened status of a
              C
              > already, reactions would have been much different! :-)) I think
              it's
              > needless to say that he isn't with the cult anymore!
              >

              #### The higher initiates couldn't handle the reality that one did
              not have to reach a higher initiation level in order to have those
              spiritual experiences and knowledge. Such new comers to the eck
              teachings threatened the whole belief system--especially, if those
              higher initiates had not and were not having such experiences.

              Did you ever wonder why Klemp always tells such simple stories? My
              guess is that he also lacks true spiritual enlightening
              experiences. : )

              >
              > >
              > > And yet so many, including myself at one time, buy the ticket
              for
              > > this train trip. With any luck, the train derails in our minds >
              > (the
              > > truly enlightening experience of this particular journey) and we
              > > scramble off! But still there are those who continue to sleep
              > >during
              > > the derailments which are the revelations of truth about the
              > > eckankar cult and its fake initiations and these individuals
              > > continue on the eck journey, which leads them nowhere! It is
              very
              > > comfortable while in the process of seeking those initiations
              when
              > > one imagines that another(mahanta) is taking care of all of
              > >his/her
              > > fears and troubles now and in the future and by taking credit(in
              > > essence robbing the chela) for those inner and outer Soul
              > > experiences that are experienced regardless of "religious"
              > >belief.
              >
              > *** Yes, here it is again - the same old saviour principle that is
              > so common among religions! But no, Eckankar doesn't have that
              > principle of course, and of course HK isn't worshipped ... it's
              just
              > this high consciousness ...!! So Eckists continue to lie to
              > themselves, with sometimes severe consequences. ...
              > >
              > >
              > > Some "C" eckists will not associate with anyone lower than "C"
              > > level, because they fear that they will be pulled down in their
              > > state of consciousness. They only acknowledge a lower leveled
              > >eckist
              > > and move on in their glorified state of consciousness. They will
              > > snub lower initiates, especially the "A"s, and will also shun
              them
              > > if those lower initiates dare to challenge or question what
              a "C"
              > > does or says! It is a big no-no to question these levels of
              > > initiations really--very sensitive topic if one deviates from
              the
              > > standard spin on the eck initiations. Thus, very early on new
              > > eckists learns to trend lightly on such a topic.
              > >
              > > Initiations are truly the carrot that the mahanta dangles on the
              > > stick for the chelas. It is all too tempting and teasing for the
              > > chase! It is what eckists strive for, because without such
              > > symbolizing levels of initiations, how else can an eckist
              measure
              > > his own spiritual enlightenment or that of others? Heaven forbid
              > >if
              > > one could figure this out for oneself!
              >
              > ***Why all those initiations if they don't show? It's as with
              > titles, people love titles in my region, and like to show their
              BAs,
              > MBAs, PhDs for which they have worked so hard! So, why not
              Eckists,
              > too, who have worked so hard to reach this high level as well? Of
              > course, real great humans don't need this kind of insignia, but
              many
              > do!

              ### The initiations inflate the ego of these individuals who apply
              value to the initiation levels. And I think the initiation level one
              has attained while in eck is the hardest thing to give up after
              dropping out of the eckankar--well, that is if you have reached H.I.
              status! I believe this is why some people struggle with giving up
              some of the eck teachings--some former eckists just cannot let go of
              the sense that they are more spiritually enlightened than the
              general population! So much time and effort was spent to achieve
              that status, so it is quite difficult to let it go! But until you
              let go of all of it, including the initiation-think, a person will
              never be free--he/she will still be caught in the eck trap! IMO!

              >
              > ***And then ... of course ... there's the membership number that
              has
              > to be held stable or increased! Better increased! :-)) So they
              make
              > eckists run after the carrot of initiations dangling in front of
              > their noses, and when they have finally made it to the 5th, they
              > become aware that it's no different to all the other initiations
              and
              > that there's no real wisdom behind. Yes, you can gain a bit of
              > wisdom if you wisen up in the process and just recognize Eckankar
              as
              > what it is - a fraud and a scam, and just leave! That's a real
              > realization then, and a successful initiation! :-))
              >
              > Ingrid
              >

              #### Ingrid, I do like your definition of a successful initiation
              best! Realizing the faud and the scam that eckankar is! : )

              Mish
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