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Re: The Fraud of Eckankar's Inner & Outer Initiations

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  • Elizabeth
    ... eck ... *** You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say Mish, you
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 4, 2005
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      Mish Wrote:

      > ******REGARDING THE FRAUD OF ECKANKAR'S INNER & OUTER INITIATIONS:
      > I think it is also a sorry state to see some others who left the
      eck
      > teachings still seeking to keep themselves elevated above the
      > general masses. They left eckankar, but they did not shed the "ego"
      > of the initiations that made them feel spiritually superior to
      > others. I don't think until you come down off of your high horse,
      > whether you are an eckist, former eckist, or any other ego driven
      > individual, that one will ever be able to attain the spiritual
      > awareness one thinks he/she has earned.


      *** You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave
      the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say
      Mish, you don't post to the eckists groups because they have their
      mind set. For me I guess even posting on the ex-eck groups has
      become sort of a similar experience. There is so much more to living
      life outside of eck / ex-eck that my feeling the need to wake eckists
      up has maybe become an ego thing too! And that is not what I think I
      am about.

      Prometheus I hope it won't upset you, but I did delete a few of my
      post from the past week or so. I shared a little too much about
      myself and have had second thoughts. Yes I know some of my comments
      were also in the bodies of others that commented. Guess I'll just
      have to live with that! :-)

      Thanks for the chance to hash things over with you all. Those that
      are posting over on a.r.e. keep keepin on! You all are doing a great
      service in my book!
      Warm Hugs
      Liz
    • mishmisha9
      Liz, My comment about ego driven minds was not directed toward anyone posting the informative insights and knowledge about eckankar. My comments were intended
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 4, 2005
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        Liz,

        My comment about ego driven minds was not directed toward anyone
        posting the informative insights and knowledge about eckankar. My
        comments were intended toward those who are still thinking eckankar
        was a stepping stone for them in spiritual awareness which actually
        misleads newbies into thinking they won't lose anything by
        experiencing e-cult! Your posts have been invaluable for present
        eckists and newly ex-eckists who are still clinging to the
        teachings.

        There are many eckists who are reading these posts. I think the hard
        core ones will be delighted if you stop posting. Keeping silent is
        exactly what Harold and company would like the most for former
        eckists to do! So, I hope you will reconsider and realize that my
        comments were not in anyway directed toward you or anyone else
        posting here, or even on eckankar sites like a.r.e. for example.

        I'm not sure what you removed, but perhaps you might consider
        reposting some of it. I do understand that there might be things
        that you would rather not have, but still . . . your stuff is so
        good!

        Mish


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
        <ewickings@a...> wrote:
        >
        > Mish Wrote:
        >
        > > ******REGARDING THE FRAUD OF ECKANKAR'S INNER & OUTER
        INITIATIONS:
        > > I think it is also a sorry state to see some others who left the
        > eck
        > > teachings still seeking to keep themselves elevated above the
        > > general masses. They left eckankar, but they did not shed
        the "ego"
        > > of the initiations that made them feel spiritually superior to
        > > others. I don't think until you come down off of your high
        horse,
        > > whether you are an eckist, former eckist, or any other ego
        driven
        > > individual, that one will ever be able to attain the spiritual
        > > awareness one thinks he/she has earned.
        >
        >
        > *** You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave
        > the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say
        > Mish, you don't post to the eckists groups because they have their
        > mind set. For me I guess even posting on the ex-eck groups has
        > become sort of a similar experience. There is so much more to
        living
        > life outside of eck / ex-eck that my feeling the need to wake
        eckists
        > up has maybe become an ego thing too! And that is not what I
        think I
        > am about.
        >
        > Prometheus I hope it won't upset you, but I did delete a few of my
        > post from the past week or so. I shared a little too much about
        > myself and have had second thoughts. Yes I know some of my
        comments
        > were also in the bodies of others that commented. Guess I'll just
        > have to live with that! :-)
        >
        > Thanks for the chance to hash things over with you all. Those that
        > are posting over on a.r.e. keep keepin on! You all are doing a
        great
        > service in my book!
        > Warm Hugs
        > Liz
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Liz, When I read this post by Mish I thought of former H.I.s B&M, over on TS/HCS, as those who still believe that those initiations had some spiritual value
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 4, 2005
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          Hi Liz,

          When I read this post by Mish I thought of former H.I.s B&M, over on
          TS/HCS, as those who still believe that those initiations had some
          spiritual value as stepping stones to higher consciousness. Some
          people just can't admit that they were dupped because their egos are
          so fragile. Therefore, the delusion of "growth" (via the Eck
          teachings) needs to be maintained at any cost. I will say that I
          learned a lot of things while in Eckankar, and that some of it was
          good. But, the good that I really learned was about my Self and was
          Not due to the Eck teachings. I was fooled by Twitchell's, Gross's
          and Klemp's scam... I admit this! However, it turned out that even
          the negative things that I learned through those Eckperiences turned
          out to be the most benefical when all were finally tallied. It seems
          that the reality of Eckankar is that it's really just a Kal bootcamp
          of sorts. If one can begin to see beyond the "Eck" dogma, the fraud
          of the "High" initiations, and the other distortions then one can
          start to take on the responsibility and awareness of Self Mastery
          and seeing beyond and through illusions of all sorts. This new found
          awareness gives the individual a chance to not only survive but to
          also graduate from this Kal (Eckankar) bootcamp as well as others!
          By seeing through the trickery and fraud that is created for Soul's
          purification then one comes to a new perspective of Self.

          I have to admit that if I were to list all of the positions that I
          held and all of the things that I did for the "Eck" that I would
          sound like I was tooting my horn. But, that really wouldn't be the
          case because I would just be letting others know that I was a true
          blue Eckist that finally woke up! This is also why I know so much
          about what's going on within the hierarchy... I can relate to those
          on HU-Chat because I bought into it all as well.

          I really enjoyed reading about your eckperiences because you came
          into Eckankar at such a young and innocent age. You were being
          groomed to be a RESA from the very beginning, and yet you saw
          through the illusions and lies. This awareness is real and shows a
          spiritual advancement that far exceeds any initiation that Eckankar
          could ever bestow upon anyone because the Eck teachings are Not
          real. Those who can finally see through the smoke and mirrors are
          now ready to go on to new adventures. I'll hang around here for a
          bit longer (while also exploring) because I know that Eckists are
          coming here due to conflicts with and misgivings about the outer
          Eckankar hierarchy. Actually, the conflicts and doubts, due to
          Eckankar, go deeper within one's Being than they are able to deal
          with by simply HUing it away. Part of the Kal trap of Eckankar (and
          Klemp) is to take credit for the good, and put blame for the bad on
          the chela. Klemp takes credit for every "Inner" visitation and
          anything positive, but blames Eckists when they can't realize
          their "Mahanta protection" because of their short comings. It's
          win/win for Klemp personally, but a lose/lose for the Eckist who
          doesn't wake up to the Truth!

          Would you reconsider and do a repost of your story? But, if not I
          understand. Please feel free to return whenever you care to. Take
          care.

          Prometheus



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
          <ewickings@a...> wrote:

          > Mish Wrote:

          ******REGARDING THE FRAUD OF ECKANKAR'S INNER & OUTER INITIATIONS:
          I think it is also a sorry state to see some others who left the
          eck teachings still seeking to keep themselves elevated above the
          general masses. They left eckankar, but they did not shed the "ego"
          of the initiations that made them feel spiritually superior to
          others. I don't think until you come down off of your high horse,
          whether you are an eckist, former eckist, or any other ego driven
          individual, that one will ever be able to attain the spiritual
          awareness one thinks he/she has earned.


          *** You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave
          the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say
          Mish, you don't post to the eckists groups because they have their
          mind set. For me I guess even posting on the ex-eck groups has
          become sort of a similar experience. There is so much more to
          living life outside of eck / ex-eck that my feeling the need to wake
          eckists up has maybe become an ego thing too! And that is not what
          I think I am about.

          Prometheus I hope it won't upset you, but I did delete a few of my
          post from the past week or so. I shared a little too much about
          myself and have had second thoughts. Yes I know some of my comments
          were also in the bodies of others that commented. Guess I'll just
          have to live with that! :-)

          Thanks for the chance to hash things over with you all. Those that
          are posting over on a.r.e. keep keepin on! You all are doing a
          great service in my book! Warm Hugs

          Liz
        • Freefrom
          Dear Liz, I have enjoyed many if not all of your posts and your personal story. This kind of sharing of our experiences is very helpful to others. I can
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 4, 2005
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            Dear Liz,

            I have enjoyed many if not all of your posts and your
            personal story. This kind of sharing of our experiences is very
            helpful to others. I can understand your reluctance and your need to
            post on sites like this. Afterall we are dealing with a Kult. They
            want former members to be afraid to speak out and tell the truth. I
            guess ultimately it is yours to decide. It is healing, to read others
            accounts and their catharsis, expressions of the facts as they know
            it. I am reminded of Rosa Parks and people like her that chose to go
            against what was wrong and stand up or sit down for their human
            rights. THere is only honor in that. I too hope you will reconsider. I
            don't post as much as I would like to. Maybe you just need a little
            break and just post when you feel like it. I notice that there has
            been quite a bit of posting on memories etc.. Sometimes this can bring
            up feelings that are hard to deal with, and they have to be processed
            somehow, at least in my experience.

            Anyway, I wish you the best and thank you.

            Freefrom

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Liz,
            >
            > When I read this post by Mish I thought of former H.I.s B&M, over on
            > TS/HCS, as those who still believe that those initiations had some
            > spiritual value as stepping stones to higher consciousness. Some
            > people just can't admit that they were dupped because their egos are
            > so fragile. Therefore, the delusion of "growth" (via the Eck
            > teachings) needs to be maintained at any cost. I will say that I
            > learned a lot of things while in Eckankar, and that some of it was
            > good. But, the good that I really learned was about my Self and was
            > Not due to the Eck teachings. I was fooled by Twitchell's, Gross's
            > and Klemp's scam... I admit this! However, it turned out that even
            > the negative things that I learned through those Eckperiences turned
            > out to be the most benefical when all were finally tallied. It seems
            > that the reality of Eckankar is that it's really just a Kal bootcamp
            > of sorts. If one can begin to see beyond the "Eck" dogma, the fraud
            > of the "High" initiations, and the other distortions then one can
            > start to take on the responsibility and awareness of Self Mastery
            > and seeing beyond and through illusions of all sorts. This new found
            > awareness gives the individual a chance to not only survive but to
            > also graduate from this Kal (Eckankar) bootcamp as well as others!
            > By seeing through the trickery and fraud that is created for Soul's
            > purification then one comes to a new perspective of Self.
            >
            > I have to admit that if I were to list all of the positions that I
            > held and all of the things that I did for the "Eck" that I would
            > sound like I was tooting my horn. But, that really wouldn't be the
            > case because I would just be letting others know that I was a true
            > blue Eckist that finally woke up! This is also why I know so much
            > about what's going on within the hierarchy... I can relate to those
            > on HU-Chat because I bought into it all as well.
            >
            > I really enjoyed reading about your eckperiences because you came
            > into Eckankar at such a young and innocent age. You were being
            > groomed to be a RESA from the very beginning, and yet you saw
            > through the illusions and lies. This awareness is real and shows a
            > spiritual advancement that far exceeds any initiation that Eckankar
            > could ever bestow upon anyone because the Eck teachings are Not
            > real. Those who can finally see through the smoke and mirrors are
            > now ready to go on to new adventures. I'll hang around here for a
            > bit longer (while also exploring) because I know that Eckists are
            > coming here due to conflicts with and misgivings about the outer
            > Eckankar hierarchy. Actually, the conflicts and doubts, due to
            > Eckankar, go deeper within one's Being than they are able to deal
            > with by simply HUing it away. Part of the Kal trap of Eckankar (and
            > Klemp) is to take credit for the good, and put blame for the bad on
            > the chela. Klemp takes credit for every "Inner" visitation and
            > anything positive, but blames Eckists when they can't realize
            > their "Mahanta protection" because of their short comings. It's
            > win/win for Klemp personally, but a lose/lose for the Eckist who
            > doesn't wake up to the Truth!
            >
            > Would you reconsider and do a repost of your story? But, if not I
            > understand. Please feel free to return whenever you care to. Take
            > care.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
            > <ewickings@a...> wrote:
            >
            > > Mish Wrote:
            >
            > ******REGARDING THE FRAUD OF ECKANKAR'S INNER & OUTER INITIATIONS:
            > I think it is also a sorry state to see some others who left the
            > eck teachings still seeking to keep themselves elevated above the
            > general masses. They left eckankar, but they did not shed the "ego"
            > of the initiations that made them feel spiritually superior to
            > others. I don't think until you come down off of your high horse,
            > whether you are an eckist, former eckist, or any other ego driven
            > individual, that one will ever be able to attain the spiritual
            > awareness one thinks he/she has earned.
            >
            >
            > *** You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave
            > the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say
            > Mish, you don't post to the eckists groups because they have their
            > mind set. For me I guess even posting on the ex-eck groups has
            > become sort of a similar experience. There is so much more to
            > living life outside of eck / ex-eck that my feeling the need to wake
            > eckists up has maybe become an ego thing too! And that is not what
            > I think I am about.
            >
            > Prometheus I hope it won't upset you, but I did delete a few of my
            > post from the past week or so. I shared a little too much about
            > myself and have had second thoughts. Yes I know some of my comments
            > were also in the bodies of others that commented. Guess I'll just
            > have to live with that! :-)
            >
            > Thanks for the chance to hash things over with you all. Those that
            > are posting over on a.r.e. keep keepin on! You all are doing a
            > great service in my book! Warm Hugs
            >
            > Liz
            >
          • ctecvie
            Hello Liz, ... Just want to add that I m sorry to see you leave ... and I will miss you for sure, just as all the others who have said so. Your stories were so
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 5, 2005
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              Hello Liz,

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
              <ewickings@a...> wrote:

              > You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave
              > the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say
              > Mish, you don't post to the eckists groups because they have their
              > mind set. For me I guess even posting on the ex-eck groups has
              > become sort of a similar experience. There is so much more to
              >living
              > life outside of eck / ex-eck that my feeling the need to wake
              >eckists
              > up has maybe become an ego thing too! And that is not what I
              >think I
              > am about.

              Just want to add that I'm sorry to see you leave ... and I will miss
              you for sure, just as all the others who have said so. Your stories
              were so interesting and touching because you experienced them - it's
              not like HK's stories which basically consist of quoting other
              people's experiences and never his own.

              I don't think you are on an ego trip at all - and not one of those
              Mish wrote about, on the contrary. But I can understand your
              questioning of motives as this is the attribute of a responsible
              person.

              >
              > Prometheus I hope it won't upset you, but I did delete a few of my
              > post from the past week or so. I shared a little too much about
              > myself and have had second thoughts. Yes I know some of my
              >comments
              > were also in the bodies of others that commented. Guess I'll just
              > have to live with that! :-)

              I can understand that, as well - even if I regret this as these were
              really so good stories! It's another attribute of a responsible
              person to do their best not to hurt anybody. And, as I understand
              it, we are not here to deceive and hurt people we once liked, just
              because we have left the cult. This is an issue I am struggling with
              as well and I think it's one thing to speak out against the fraud of
              Eckankar and another one to attack people who believe in this fraud
              with all their heart. But of course I have no intention to spare HK
              or PT because they are responsible for the biggest spiritual crime
              in my view - deceiving people AND keeping them trapped in a scam!

              All the best to you, and, as others have said, should you want to
              reconsider your decision, I welcome you with open arms!
              Ingrid
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