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The Fraud of Eckankar's Inner & Outer Initiations

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  • mishmisha9
    ... don t know where to step. Mexican beetles are around his [Harold s] home and they breed like crazy. Joan will carefully carry them outside, but some don t
    Message 1 of 6 , Nov 3, 2005
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      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, ewickings@a...
      wrote:
      >
      > "Worrying about stepping on ants you get so bound up that you
      don't know where to step. Mexican beetles are around his [Harold's]
      home and they breed like crazy. Joan will carefully carry them
      outside, but some don't know better and come back in and Harold will
      help them to the homelands. He calls them westerners."
      >
      >
      > Wanted to comment on this part of Klump's talk but forgot! Does
      anyone else see the "Postal Clerk" consciousness in Klump's comment
      about helping the Mexican Beetles to their homeland? Why on Earth
      would a few beetles cause Klump to have to assist them to their
      maker? Does he get that upset he needs to assist [kill] them...
      isn't he their maker? <snicker> shouldn't all of God's creation
      follow their own natural time line of translation? ;-)

      ******Yeah, but obviously he doesn't like all of his creations! : )
      >
      > BTW was wondering if anyone here can post to HU-chat? Seems Dar
      needs some important info on how initiations are really handed out!
      > Liz
      >

      ******REGARDING THE FRAUD OF ECKANKAR'S INNER & OUTER INITIATIONS:

      Liz, I just took a look over there at those posts about inner and
      outer initiations! LOL! Seems that some H.I.s (probably many)
      believe that their inner initiations are much higher than their
      outer initiations. Initiations are what they live for! If they can't
      advance enough on the outer because the way the computer
      programing/lists of chelas and the RESA system decide when one will
      be elevated on the outer, well, these delusional individuals settle
      for imagining those inner intiations come much quicker. Kind of
      reminds me of school kids who put more value in the grades they
      received than what they learned! In spiritual quests, like other,
      goals, there is that strong need to look important and all knowing
      to others, rather than be satisfied and happy with who you are
      without the false pretences! Really sad--especially, when there are
      no such things as initiations and that Eckankar is just a bundle of
      false teachings--much ado about nothing. People really waste their
      lives in there, when they don't see through the lies and deceptions
      and/or are too afraid to question.

      I think it is also a sorry state to see some others who left the eck
      teachings still seeking to keep themselves elevated above the
      general masses. They left eckankar, but they did not shed the "ego"
      of the initiations that made them feel spiritually superior to
      others. I don't think until you come down off of your high horse,
      whether you are an eckist, former eckist, or any other ego driven
      individual, that one will ever be able to attain the spiritual
      awareness one thinks he/she has earned.

      Also, if Eckists are using initiations as yardsticks of spiritual
      growth, they need to look around at others who hold that same
      initiation level, and by doing so, they will truly know deep down
      inside themselves that these initiations have no value as yardsticks
      of spiritual growth. That's the key that Dar (HuChat) really needs
      to find.

      On another note, just look at how Darwin Gross was given his fifth
      initiation by the eckankar board of trustees so he could be given
      the position of LEM/Mahanta. Darwin, a second initiate, was given
      the fifth by way of a "dream" that Gail Twitcell claimed to have.
      Then, after being made a fifth initiate by the Board, he then
      received at least a 12th initiation soon afterwards on Oct. 22,
      1971. DG was the savior that Klemp decided to be with rather than
      with his mother at the time of Klemp's father's funeral. Klemp
      received all his higher initiations under Darwin Gross--by the way,
      what initiation is DG at now? Therefore, how valid are Klemp's
      initiations?? The truth is these eck initiations have no value at
      all, they are all fraud--the only value they have are in eckists'
      minds and in Klemp's bank account! : )

      Incidentally, I don't post on eckist chat sites, because I don't
      care to intrude there as their mindset is what it is, but I don't
      mind pondering and discussing some of the nutty way they view their
      religious teachings! They really serve as good examples of what is
      wrong with Eckankar. LOL!

      Mish
    • Elizabeth
      ... eck ... *** You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say Mish, you
      Message 2 of 6 , Nov 4, 2005
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        Mish Wrote:

        > ******REGARDING THE FRAUD OF ECKANKAR'S INNER & OUTER INITIATIONS:
        > I think it is also a sorry state to see some others who left the
        eck
        > teachings still seeking to keep themselves elevated above the
        > general masses. They left eckankar, but they did not shed the "ego"
        > of the initiations that made them feel spiritually superior to
        > others. I don't think until you come down off of your high horse,
        > whether you are an eckist, former eckist, or any other ego driven
        > individual, that one will ever be able to attain the spiritual
        > awareness one thinks he/she has earned.


        *** You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave
        the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say
        Mish, you don't post to the eckists groups because they have their
        mind set. For me I guess even posting on the ex-eck groups has
        become sort of a similar experience. There is so much more to living
        life outside of eck / ex-eck that my feeling the need to wake eckists
        up has maybe become an ego thing too! And that is not what I think I
        am about.

        Prometheus I hope it won't upset you, but I did delete a few of my
        post from the past week or so. I shared a little too much about
        myself and have had second thoughts. Yes I know some of my comments
        were also in the bodies of others that commented. Guess I'll just
        have to live with that! :-)

        Thanks for the chance to hash things over with you all. Those that
        are posting over on a.r.e. keep keepin on! You all are doing a great
        service in my book!
        Warm Hugs
        Liz
      • mishmisha9
        Liz, My comment about ego driven minds was not directed toward anyone posting the informative insights and knowledge about eckankar. My comments were intended
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 4, 2005
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          Liz,

          My comment about ego driven minds was not directed toward anyone
          posting the informative insights and knowledge about eckankar. My
          comments were intended toward those who are still thinking eckankar
          was a stepping stone for them in spiritual awareness which actually
          misleads newbies into thinking they won't lose anything by
          experiencing e-cult! Your posts have been invaluable for present
          eckists and newly ex-eckists who are still clinging to the
          teachings.

          There are many eckists who are reading these posts. I think the hard
          core ones will be delighted if you stop posting. Keeping silent is
          exactly what Harold and company would like the most for former
          eckists to do! So, I hope you will reconsider and realize that my
          comments were not in anyway directed toward you or anyone else
          posting here, or even on eckankar sites like a.r.e. for example.

          I'm not sure what you removed, but perhaps you might consider
          reposting some of it. I do understand that there might be things
          that you would rather not have, but still . . . your stuff is so
          good!

          Mish


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
          <ewickings@a...> wrote:
          >
          > Mish Wrote:
          >
          > > ******REGARDING THE FRAUD OF ECKANKAR'S INNER & OUTER
          INITIATIONS:
          > > I think it is also a sorry state to see some others who left the
          > eck
          > > teachings still seeking to keep themselves elevated above the
          > > general masses. They left eckankar, but they did not shed
          the "ego"
          > > of the initiations that made them feel spiritually superior to
          > > others. I don't think until you come down off of your high
          horse,
          > > whether you are an eckist, former eckist, or any other ego
          driven
          > > individual, that one will ever be able to attain the spiritual
          > > awareness one thinks he/she has earned.
          >
          >
          > *** You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave
          > the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say
          > Mish, you don't post to the eckists groups because they have their
          > mind set. For me I guess even posting on the ex-eck groups has
          > become sort of a similar experience. There is so much more to
          living
          > life outside of eck / ex-eck that my feeling the need to wake
          eckists
          > up has maybe become an ego thing too! And that is not what I
          think I
          > am about.
          >
          > Prometheus I hope it won't upset you, but I did delete a few of my
          > post from the past week or so. I shared a little too much about
          > myself and have had second thoughts. Yes I know some of my
          comments
          > were also in the bodies of others that commented. Guess I'll just
          > have to live with that! :-)
          >
          > Thanks for the chance to hash things over with you all. Those that
          > are posting over on a.r.e. keep keepin on! You all are doing a
          great
          > service in my book!
          > Warm Hugs
          > Liz
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hi Liz, When I read this post by Mish I thought of former H.I.s B&M, over on TS/HCS, as those who still believe that those initiations had some spiritual value
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 4, 2005
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            Hi Liz,

            When I read this post by Mish I thought of former H.I.s B&M, over on
            TS/HCS, as those who still believe that those initiations had some
            spiritual value as stepping stones to higher consciousness. Some
            people just can't admit that they were dupped because their egos are
            so fragile. Therefore, the delusion of "growth" (via the Eck
            teachings) needs to be maintained at any cost. I will say that I
            learned a lot of things while in Eckankar, and that some of it was
            good. But, the good that I really learned was about my Self and was
            Not due to the Eck teachings. I was fooled by Twitchell's, Gross's
            and Klemp's scam... I admit this! However, it turned out that even
            the negative things that I learned through those Eckperiences turned
            out to be the most benefical when all were finally tallied. It seems
            that the reality of Eckankar is that it's really just a Kal bootcamp
            of sorts. If one can begin to see beyond the "Eck" dogma, the fraud
            of the "High" initiations, and the other distortions then one can
            start to take on the responsibility and awareness of Self Mastery
            and seeing beyond and through illusions of all sorts. This new found
            awareness gives the individual a chance to not only survive but to
            also graduate from this Kal (Eckankar) bootcamp as well as others!
            By seeing through the trickery and fraud that is created for Soul's
            purification then one comes to a new perspective of Self.

            I have to admit that if I were to list all of the positions that I
            held and all of the things that I did for the "Eck" that I would
            sound like I was tooting my horn. But, that really wouldn't be the
            case because I would just be letting others know that I was a true
            blue Eckist that finally woke up! This is also why I know so much
            about what's going on within the hierarchy... I can relate to those
            on HU-Chat because I bought into it all as well.

            I really enjoyed reading about your eckperiences because you came
            into Eckankar at such a young and innocent age. You were being
            groomed to be a RESA from the very beginning, and yet you saw
            through the illusions and lies. This awareness is real and shows a
            spiritual advancement that far exceeds any initiation that Eckankar
            could ever bestow upon anyone because the Eck teachings are Not
            real. Those who can finally see through the smoke and mirrors are
            now ready to go on to new adventures. I'll hang around here for a
            bit longer (while also exploring) because I know that Eckists are
            coming here due to conflicts with and misgivings about the outer
            Eckankar hierarchy. Actually, the conflicts and doubts, due to
            Eckankar, go deeper within one's Being than they are able to deal
            with by simply HUing it away. Part of the Kal trap of Eckankar (and
            Klemp) is to take credit for the good, and put blame for the bad on
            the chela. Klemp takes credit for every "Inner" visitation and
            anything positive, but blames Eckists when they can't realize
            their "Mahanta protection" because of their short comings. It's
            win/win for Klemp personally, but a lose/lose for the Eckist who
            doesn't wake up to the Truth!

            Would you reconsider and do a repost of your story? But, if not I
            understand. Please feel free to return whenever you care to. Take
            care.

            Prometheus



            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
            <ewickings@a...> wrote:

            > Mish Wrote:

            ******REGARDING THE FRAUD OF ECKANKAR'S INNER & OUTER INITIATIONS:
            I think it is also a sorry state to see some others who left the
            eck teachings still seeking to keep themselves elevated above the
            general masses. They left eckankar, but they did not shed the "ego"
            of the initiations that made them feel spiritually superior to
            others. I don't think until you come down off of your high horse,
            whether you are an eckist, former eckist, or any other ego driven
            individual, that one will ever be able to attain the spiritual
            awareness one thinks he/she has earned.


            *** You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave
            the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say
            Mish, you don't post to the eckists groups because they have their
            mind set. For me I guess even posting on the ex-eck groups has
            become sort of a similar experience. There is so much more to
            living life outside of eck / ex-eck that my feeling the need to wake
            eckists up has maybe become an ego thing too! And that is not what
            I think I am about.

            Prometheus I hope it won't upset you, but I did delete a few of my
            post from the past week or so. I shared a little too much about
            myself and have had second thoughts. Yes I know some of my comments
            were also in the bodies of others that commented. Guess I'll just
            have to live with that! :-)

            Thanks for the chance to hash things over with you all. Those that
            are posting over on a.r.e. keep keepin on! You all are doing a
            great service in my book! Warm Hugs

            Liz
          • Freefrom
            Dear Liz, I have enjoyed many if not all of your posts and your personal story. This kind of sharing of our experiences is very helpful to others. I can
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 4, 2005
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              Dear Liz,

              I have enjoyed many if not all of your posts and your
              personal story. This kind of sharing of our experiences is very
              helpful to others. I can understand your reluctance and your need to
              post on sites like this. Afterall we are dealing with a Kult. They
              want former members to be afraid to speak out and tell the truth. I
              guess ultimately it is yours to decide. It is healing, to read others
              accounts and their catharsis, expressions of the facts as they know
              it. I am reminded of Rosa Parks and people like her that chose to go
              against what was wrong and stand up or sit down for their human
              rights. THere is only honor in that. I too hope you will reconsider. I
              don't post as much as I would like to. Maybe you just need a little
              break and just post when you feel like it. I notice that there has
              been quite a bit of posting on memories etc.. Sometimes this can bring
              up feelings that are hard to deal with, and they have to be processed
              somehow, at least in my experience.

              Anyway, I wish you the best and thank you.

              Freefrom

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Liz,
              >
              > When I read this post by Mish I thought of former H.I.s B&M, over on
              > TS/HCS, as those who still believe that those initiations had some
              > spiritual value as stepping stones to higher consciousness. Some
              > people just can't admit that they were dupped because their egos are
              > so fragile. Therefore, the delusion of "growth" (via the Eck
              > teachings) needs to be maintained at any cost. I will say that I
              > learned a lot of things while in Eckankar, and that some of it was
              > good. But, the good that I really learned was about my Self and was
              > Not due to the Eck teachings. I was fooled by Twitchell's, Gross's
              > and Klemp's scam... I admit this! However, it turned out that even
              > the negative things that I learned through those Eckperiences turned
              > out to be the most benefical when all were finally tallied. It seems
              > that the reality of Eckankar is that it's really just a Kal bootcamp
              > of sorts. If one can begin to see beyond the "Eck" dogma, the fraud
              > of the "High" initiations, and the other distortions then one can
              > start to take on the responsibility and awareness of Self Mastery
              > and seeing beyond and through illusions of all sorts. This new found
              > awareness gives the individual a chance to not only survive but to
              > also graduate from this Kal (Eckankar) bootcamp as well as others!
              > By seeing through the trickery and fraud that is created for Soul's
              > purification then one comes to a new perspective of Self.
              >
              > I have to admit that if I were to list all of the positions that I
              > held and all of the things that I did for the "Eck" that I would
              > sound like I was tooting my horn. But, that really wouldn't be the
              > case because I would just be letting others know that I was a true
              > blue Eckist that finally woke up! This is also why I know so much
              > about what's going on within the hierarchy... I can relate to those
              > on HU-Chat because I bought into it all as well.
              >
              > I really enjoyed reading about your eckperiences because you came
              > into Eckankar at such a young and innocent age. You were being
              > groomed to be a RESA from the very beginning, and yet you saw
              > through the illusions and lies. This awareness is real and shows a
              > spiritual advancement that far exceeds any initiation that Eckankar
              > could ever bestow upon anyone because the Eck teachings are Not
              > real. Those who can finally see through the smoke and mirrors are
              > now ready to go on to new adventures. I'll hang around here for a
              > bit longer (while also exploring) because I know that Eckists are
              > coming here due to conflicts with and misgivings about the outer
              > Eckankar hierarchy. Actually, the conflicts and doubts, due to
              > Eckankar, go deeper within one's Being than they are able to deal
              > with by simply HUing it away. Part of the Kal trap of Eckankar (and
              > Klemp) is to take credit for the good, and put blame for the bad on
              > the chela. Klemp takes credit for every "Inner" visitation and
              > anything positive, but blames Eckists when they can't realize
              > their "Mahanta protection" because of their short comings. It's
              > win/win for Klemp personally, but a lose/lose for the Eckist who
              > doesn't wake up to the Truth!
              >
              > Would you reconsider and do a repost of your story? But, if not I
              > understand. Please feel free to return whenever you care to. Take
              > care.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
              > <ewickings@a...> wrote:
              >
              > > Mish Wrote:
              >
              > ******REGARDING THE FRAUD OF ECKANKAR'S INNER & OUTER INITIATIONS:
              > I think it is also a sorry state to see some others who left the
              > eck teachings still seeking to keep themselves elevated above the
              > general masses. They left eckankar, but they did not shed the "ego"
              > of the initiations that made them feel spiritually superior to
              > others. I don't think until you come down off of your high horse,
              > whether you are an eckist, former eckist, or any other ego driven
              > individual, that one will ever be able to attain the spiritual
              > awareness one thinks he/she has earned.
              >
              >
              > *** You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave
              > the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say
              > Mish, you don't post to the eckists groups because they have their
              > mind set. For me I guess even posting on the ex-eck groups has
              > become sort of a similar experience. There is so much more to
              > living life outside of eck / ex-eck that my feeling the need to wake
              > eckists up has maybe become an ego thing too! And that is not what
              > I think I am about.
              >
              > Prometheus I hope it won't upset you, but I did delete a few of my
              > post from the past week or so. I shared a little too much about
              > myself and have had second thoughts. Yes I know some of my comments
              > were also in the bodies of others that commented. Guess I'll just
              > have to live with that! :-)
              >
              > Thanks for the chance to hash things over with you all. Those that
              > are posting over on a.r.e. keep keepin on! You all are doing a
              > great service in my book! Warm Hugs
              >
              > Liz
              >
            • ctecvie
              Hello Liz, ... Just want to add that I m sorry to see you leave ... and I will miss you for sure, just as all the others who have said so. Your stories were so
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 5, 2005
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                Hello Liz,

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Elizabeth"
                <ewickings@a...> wrote:

                > You know this speaks volumes... and so I have decided to leave
                > the groups I belong to where I have been speaking out. As you say
                > Mish, you don't post to the eckists groups because they have their
                > mind set. For me I guess even posting on the ex-eck groups has
                > become sort of a similar experience. There is so much more to
                >living
                > life outside of eck / ex-eck that my feeling the need to wake
                >eckists
                > up has maybe become an ego thing too! And that is not what I
                >think I
                > am about.

                Just want to add that I'm sorry to see you leave ... and I will miss
                you for sure, just as all the others who have said so. Your stories
                were so interesting and touching because you experienced them - it's
                not like HK's stories which basically consist of quoting other
                people's experiences and never his own.

                I don't think you are on an ego trip at all - and not one of those
                Mish wrote about, on the contrary. But I can understand your
                questioning of motives as this is the attribute of a responsible
                person.

                >
                > Prometheus I hope it won't upset you, but I did delete a few of my
                > post from the past week or so. I shared a little too much about
                > myself and have had second thoughts. Yes I know some of my
                >comments
                > were also in the bodies of others that commented. Guess I'll just
                > have to live with that! :-)

                I can understand that, as well - even if I regret this as these were
                really so good stories! It's another attribute of a responsible
                person to do their best not to hurt anybody. And, as I understand
                it, we are not here to deceive and hurt people we once liked, just
                because we have left the cult. This is an issue I am struggling with
                as well and I think it's one thing to speak out against the fraud of
                Eckankar and another one to attack people who believe in this fraud
                with all their heart. But of course I have no intention to spare HK
                or PT because they are responsible for the biggest spiritual crime
                in my view - deceiving people AND keeping them trapped in a scam!

                All the best to you, and, as others have said, should you want to
                reconsider your decision, I welcome you with open arms!
                Ingrid
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