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Klemp states: Love, except for relationships, is not needed much

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  • prometheus_973
    Hi All, The 2005 Eckankar World Wide Seminar (5EWWS) gave the LEM/Mahanta (Harold Klemp) another opportunity to stick his foot in his mouth. And, once again,
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 31, 2005
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      Hi All,

      The 2005 Eckankar World Wide Seminar (5EWWS) gave the LEM/Mahanta
      (Harold Klemp) another opportunity to stick his foot in his mouth.
      And, once again, HK didn't disappoint us!

      The following Klemp quote was taken from HU-Chat, an "unofficial"
      Eckankar Yahoo Group Site and was posted by a Peter Anton (message
      50809). According to Peter, who took notes, this is from Klemp's
      evening talk on Saturday, October 29, 2005, 8:29 pm.

      "You never really know your spouse. Love is for relationships.
      Otherwise you don't need it much. Relationships between people and
      between people and animals. Ancient beings who care for each other a
      lot. Many people belittle affections people have for their pets. But
      that doesn't fly for those who understand."

      I find the comment "You never really know your spouse" to be rather
      shallow and sad. If one's mate is their Soul Mate, or if they are
      Twin Souls (both concepts are disavowed by Eckankar) then one does
      come to "really know" their spouse. Thereby is a Love experienced
      that takes one beyond normal limits of expectation and
      understanding. It is somewhat of a rarity for two to find each
      other, but it does happen when one is receptive to the guidance and
      flow of SPIRIT. However, one has to be open and receptive to all
      possibilities when working with the flow of SPIRIT. Unfortunately,
      for Klemp, he does not recognize this factor and, therefore, passes
      his ignorance on to those who follow his words.

      I also find Klemp's comments about love, "you don't need it much" to
      be of great concern for Eckists. Except for relationships, with
      people and animals, why don't you need love... much?

      Here's some quotes from Klemp that contradict what he has just
      stated. "love. Feeling that imparts vitality to thought; feeling is
      desire and desire is love; the adhesive force that holds everything
      together; the doctrine of universal unity; the oneness of the
      SUGMAD; a dichotomy whose opposite is hate in the lower worlds; the
      ECK; the universal law of laws; the divine essence which unites all
      reality and brings together all SOULS; the bond which holds the
      worlds together." (pgs. 126-127, Eckankar Lexicon) "Love, Law of.
      The principle which gives THOUGHT the dynamic power to correlate
      with its object and, therefore, to master every adverse human
      experience; feeling that imparts vitality to thought; feeling is
      DESIRE, and desire is LOVE." (pg. 127)

      The problem with Klemp contradicting himself is because these
      Eckankar Lexicon quotes are Not really Klemp's! Klemp took these
      from the Eckankar Dictionary by Paul Twitchell and Twitchell took
      these definitions from other sources. Therefore, it is no wonder
      that Klemp does Not remember, much less understand, the words and
      concepts that he claims to have written in the Lexicon. Even the
      Shariyats contain concepts that Klemp only mimics due to his lack of
      higher consciousness! <sigh>

      I almost feel sorry for "Big Harry" except for his arrogance and his
      cruelty to those he continues to mislead.

      Prometheus
    • Freefrom
      Love means never having to say you re sorry. ;) Harri Happy Halloween! Freefrom
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 31, 2005
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        Love means never having to say you're sorry.
                                     Harri

        Happy Halloween!

        Freefrom



        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi All,
        >
        > The 2005 Eckankar World Wide Seminar (5EWWS) gave the LEM/Mahanta
        > (Harold Klemp) another opportunity to stick his foot in his mouth.
        > And, once again, HK didn't disappoint us!
        >
        > The following Klemp quote was taken from HU-Chat, an "unofficial"
        > Eckankar Yahoo Group Site and was posted by a Peter Anton (message
        > 50809). According to Peter, who took notes, this is from Klemp's
        > evening talk on Saturday, October 29, 2005, 8:29 pm.
        >
        > "You never really know your spouse. Love is for relationships.
        > Otherwise you don't need it much. Relationships between people and
        > between people and animals. Ancient beings who care for each other a
        > lot. Many people belittle affections people have for their pets. But
        > that doesn't fly for those who understand."
        >
        > I find the comment "You never really know your spouse" to be rather
        > shallow and sad. If one's mate is their Soul Mate, or if they are
        > Twin Souls (both concepts are disavowed by Eckankar) then one does
        > come to "really know" their spouse. Thereby is a Love experienced
        > that takes one beyond normal limits of expectation and
        > understanding. It is somewhat of a rarity for two to find each
        > other, but it does happen when one is receptive to the guidance and
        > flow of SPIRIT. However, one has to be open and receptive to all
        > possibilities when working with the flow of SPIRIT. Unfortunately,
        > for Klemp, he does not recognize this factor and, therefore, passes
        > his ignorance on to those who follow his words.
        >
        > I also find Klemp's comments about love, "you don't need it much" to
        > be of great concern for Eckists. Except for relationships, with
        > people and animals, why don't you need love... much?
        >
        > Here's some quotes from Klemp that contradict what he has just
        > stated. "love. Feeling that imparts vitality to thought; feeling is
        > desire and desire is love; the adhesive force that holds everything
        > together; the doctrine of universal unity; the oneness of the
        > SUGMAD; a dichotomy whose opposite is hate in the lower worlds; the
        > ECK; the universal law of laws; the divine essence which unites all
        > reality and brings together all SOULS; the bond which holds the
        > worlds together." (pgs. 126-127, Eckankar Lexicon) "Love, Law of.
        > The principle which gives THOUGHT the dynamic power to correlate
        > with its object and, therefore, to master every adverse human
        > experience; feeling that imparts vitality to thought; feeling is
        > DESIRE, and desire is LOVE." (pg. 127)
        >
        > The problem with Klemp contradicting himself is because these
        > Eckankar Lexicon quotes are Not really Klemp's! Klemp took these
        > from the Eckankar Dictionary by Paul Twitchell and Twitchell took
        > these definitions from other sources. Therefore, it is no wonder
        > that Klemp does Not remember, much less understand, the words and
        > concepts that he claims to have written in the Lexicon. Even the
        > Shariyats contain concepts that Klemp only mimics due to his lack of
        > higher consciousness! <sigh>
        >
        > I almost feel sorry for "Big Harry" except for his arrogance and his
        > cruelty to those he continues to mislead.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hi Liz, Eckankar sees God and Allah (at best) as 4th Plane dieties! Both God and Allah are on the same level of consciousness as is a Fourth Initiate in
        Message 3 of 6 , Nov 1, 2005
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          Hi Liz,

          Eckankar sees God and Allah (at best) as 4th Plane dieties! Both God
          and Allah are on the same level of consciousness as is a Fourth
          Initiate in Eckankar! Therefore, Darrell Johnson's comments about
          Klemp seeing himself as the "Son of God" is rather understated.
          Klemp uses "common language" as a means to decieve the public. When
          Klemp uses the term "God" he is actually referring to SUGMAD. And
          Klemp defines the Mahanta as being the incarnation of SUGMAD
          (pg.130, Eckankar Lexicon). In Eckankar the Higher Initiations begin
          with the Fifth Plane Initiations. An Eckist with the Fifth
          Initiation is Higher than God and Allah! Therefore Jesus and
          Mohammed (and all others) are seen as even lower in consciousness
          than those Eckists on the Fourth Plane! Yet, Klemp even quotes from
          the Christian Bible to further decieve the public of the real dogma
          and beliefs of Eckankar. If any Eckist would deny this they are
          either a newer Eckist, don't read much or lack awareness, or they
          are lying!

          Prometheus


          Elizabeth wrote:

          Prometheus wrote:

          The following Klemp quote was taken from HU-Chat, an "unofficial"
          Eckankar Yahoo Group Site

          <snipped>

          Harold's quote:
          "You never really know your spouse. Love is for relationships.
          Otherwise you don't need it much. Relationships between people and
          between people and animals.

          <snipped>

          *** My comments:
          While reading from a.r.e. this morning I came across a recent repost
          by leaf. I snipped a paragraph below that stood out for me.

          I find it interesting that Harold spoke at the recent WW; "You never
          really know your spouse. Love is for relationships. Otherwise you
          don't need it much." I wonder if Harold has read the below repost,
          which was originally posted by Darrell Johnson, Ford Johnson's
          brother on April 22nd 2004 titled "Eckankar Spiritual Leader Claims
          Title of Son of God" located at

          http://environment.news.prweb.com/releases/2004/4/prweb120175.htm



          Does Eckankar Still Work For The Eckist?

          <snipped>

          Do you know the truth about that religion or path?

          Much like a personal relationship filled with love and devotion,
          it "works" for both partners when it is based on trust 3/4 truth 3/4
          and love. However, if one partner is unfaithful or has been
          dishonest about fundamental issues, a relationship that may appear
          to pass all the tests cannot do so without fundamental compromises
          once the deception, the lies and the dishonesty is finally revealed.
          So, the questions that comprise this test presuppose that an
          affirmative response is based on knowing the real history of the
          religion and what it represents.


          *** So Harold's comment seems clear now.... Create that question
          of doubt and suspicion in the members minds about their loved one,
          in turn create a stronger reliance on the LEM / Mahanta. You can
          only trust the Mahanta..... so I wonder how many fanatical eckies
          went home with this quote playing over and over in their minds?
          Returning home they have been implanted with another brainwashing
          techneque, complete love and reliance on that Mythical God Man....

          Love is for relationships, otherwise you don't need it ["LOVE"]
          much? Seems BIG Harry has been the unfaithful one in his
          relationships.... and who really needs him? ;-) NOT ME

          Liz
        • mishmisha9
          Hi, Freefrom, Prometheus & All! I don t really remember reading Harri saying, Love means never having to say you re sorry, but, hey, perhaps, he has--he s no
          Message 4 of 6 , Nov 1, 2005
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            Hi, Freefrom, Prometheus & All!

            I don't really remember reading Harri saying, "Love means never
            having to say you're sorry," but, hey, perhaps, he has--he's no more
            original than PT! LOL!

            It is interesting,indeed, the comments or lack of comments that HK
            has made concerning love--"You never really know your spouse. Love
            is for relationships. Otherwise you don't need it much." What about
            Divine Love?

            Then HK goes on: "Relationships between people and between people
            and animals. Ancient beings who care for each other a lot. Many
            people belittle affections people have for their pets. But that
            doesn't fly for those who understand." Such ramblings! : ) The thing
            is most of us, IMO, have had or presently have relationships with
            animals, and so news to HK, I don't think that "many people
            belittle" people with pets. Just read the stories about the rescuing
            of stranded pets in the aftermath of the destruction from the recent
            hurricanes along the Gulf Coast? There were many reports about that.
            Also, specific animal rescue groups help coordinate efforts to save
            those animals and re-unite them with their owners. Donations were
            sent to animal orgs. for that specific usage--so, frankly, I don't
            know why HK would think that many people do not understand the
            relationship that people have with animals. This is delusional
            thinking really.

            Well, anyway, reading these remarks that Harold made in his seminar
            talk had me reflecting back on his autobiography stories, and I
            realized what was missing! LOVE! Think about it! Do any of you
            recall HK talking about the love he has for family and friends? I
            don't remember any of his stories revealing that. But what I do
            remember is the anger he expresses in having to deal with people,
            and of course, all of his criticisms of others. Lots of negativity
            really--so how did HK ever become a happy human being? Well, my
            guess is that he hasn't!

            One of the reasons he says "You never really know your spouse" would
            be that he does not understand human relationships. He didn't know
            how to take jokes when he was young and harbored resentment--i.e.
            against an older farmer who was having fun with a group of farmers
            including little Harry. Little Harry was too young to understand the
            joke, so he has held on to the anger he felt about the joking
            centered around him. He didn't know to lighten up then and he still
            doesn't know to lighten up! Yes, as an adult, he still accuses this
            old farmer of doing something nasty to him and HK is still mad--
            sounds like arrested development at a very young age. A good
            therapist could have fun with this one. But the thing is HK shares
            in his autobio negative personal experiences--oh, poor, Harry, how
            difficult his childhood must have been, but heck look where all this
            martyrdom has gotten him! He's the delusional leader of a religious
            cult! : ) Isn't that special?

            I tried to recall anything that he wrote about being loved or in
            love or wanting to love in his autobiographies. I don't remember him
            sharing any stories in which he expressed how much he loved his
            parents, for instance. But I do remember that chapter where he
            references a biblical passage about letting the dead bury the dead.
            HK did not go home for his father's funeral. Not only did he not
            feel the need for himself to honor and respect his father, he
            demonstrated a lack of compassion and love by not being present to
            comfort and console his grieving mother and siblings. Interesting
            that he felt no need to go home.

            I think HK feels more comfortable with relationships with animals
            because animals can be controlled easier, animals do not disagree
            with you or point out your flaws, and animals are faithful
            regardless of your short-comings! Just so much easier to deal with
            animals than humans. Animal needs are not so demanding and also
            animals can be more easily replaced. People, on the other hand, are
            more difficult to understand, are not easily controlled (unless
            under the influence of some power, like a cult), have the ability to
            use critical thinking, there-by, can see through lies and
            deceptions, and people will shift loyalty when they smell something
            rotten in Denmark! : ) Animals just don't have the consciousness to
            be held to higher standards.

            So, can anyone really recall any personal stories that HK has shared
            about himself in which he demonstrates love or having been loved? He
            talks about love, but it seems he does not at all know what it is,
            and that is why he underplays the importance of human love in his
            talks and tries to make people feel guilty if they feel love too
            strongly towards others, especially those close to them. How is it
            regarded in Eckankar? Oh, yes, it is a lower consciousness--human
            love, and "you don't need it much." Yes, he does say love is for
            relationships--but he doesn't really define relationships, does he?
            Truly difficult for him, I guess.

            HK smiles out at his audiences but not because of the love he feels
            for them (he does not understand love); rather, HK smiles because he
            has his chelas right where he wants them--under his thumb! If HK
            loves anything, it's the power he has over others!

            Mish


            ********************************

            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "Freefrom"
            <eckchains@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Love means never having to say you're sorry.
            > ;) Harri
            >
            > Happy Halloween!
            >
            > Freefrom
            >
            >

            *******************************
            > --- In
            EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
            <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
            > >Hi All,
            > >
            The 2005 Eckankar World Wide Seminar (5EWWS) gave the LEM/Mahanta
            (Harold Klemp) another opportunity to stick his foot in his mouth.
            And, once again, HK didn't disappoint us!
            > >
            > > The following Klemp quote was taken from HU-Chat,
            an "unofficial" Eckankar Yahoo Group Site and was posted by a Peter
            Anton (message 50809). According to Peter, who took notes, this is
            from Klemp's evening talk on Saturday, October 29, 2005, 8:29 pm.
            > >
            "You never really know your spouse. Love is for relationships.
            Otherwise you don't need it much. Relationships between people and
            between people and animals. Ancient beings who care for each other a
            lot. Many people belittle affections people have for their pets. But
            that doesn't fly for those who understand."
            > >
            > > I find the comment "You never really know your spouse" to be
            rather shallow and sad. If one's mate is their Soul Mate, or if they
            are Twin Souls (both concepts are disavowed by Eckankar) then one
            does come to "really know" their spouse. Thereby is a Love
            experienced that takes one beyond normal limits of expectation and
            understanding. It is somewhat of a rarity for two to find each
            other, but it does happen when one is receptive to the guidance and
            flow of SPIRIT. However, one has to be open and receptive to all
            possibilities when working with the flow of SPIRIT. Unfortunately,
            for Klemp, he does not recognize this factor and, therefore, passes
            his ignorance on to those who follow his words.
            > >
            > > I also find Klemp's comments about love, "you don't need it
            much" to be of great concern for Eckists. Except for relationships,
            with people and animals, why don't you need love... much?
            > >
            > > Here's some quotes from Klemp that contradict what he has just
            stated. "love. Feeling that imparts vitality to thought; feeling is
            desire and desire is love; the adhesive force that holds everything
            together; the doctrine of universal unity; the oneness of the
            SUGMAD; a dichotomy whose opposite is hate in the lower worlds; the
            ECK; the universal law of laws; the divine essence which unites all
            reality and brings together all SOULS; the bond which holds the
            worlds together." (pgs. 126-127, Eckankar Lexicon) "Love, Law of.
            > > The principle which gives THOUGHT the dynamic power to correlate
            with its object and, therefore, to master every adverse human
            experience; feeling that imparts vitality to thought; feeling is
            DESIRE, and desire is LOVE." (pg. 127)
            > >
            > > The problem with Klemp contradicting himself is because these
            Eckankar Lexicon quotes are Not really Klemp's! Klemp took these
            from the Eckankar Dictionary by Paul Twitchell and Twitchell took
            these definitions from other sources. Therefore, it is no wonder
            that Klemp does Not remember, much less understand, the words and
            concepts that he claims to have written in the Lexicon. Even the
            Shariyats contain concepts that Klemp only mimics due to his lack of
            higher consciousness! <sigh>
            > >
            > > I almost feel sorry for "Big Harry" except for his arrogance and
            his cruelty to those he continues to mislead.
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > >
            >
          • christel_heine2003
            ... hallo, Prometheus, where in Eckankar works is written, that God and Allah are only as Fourth Initiate s ? is t in Eckankar Lexicon too? thank you christel
            Message 5 of 6 , Nov 2, 2005
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              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
              hallo, Prometheus,
              where in Eckankar works is written, that "God and Allah are only as
              Fourth Initiate's"?
              is't in Eckankar Lexicon too?
              thank you christel


              <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Liz,
              > Eckankar sees God and Allah (at best) as 4th Plane dieties! Both
              God
              > and Allah are on the same level of consciousness as is a Fourth
              > Initiate in Eckankar! Therefore, Darrell Johnson's comments about
              > Klemp seeing himself as the "Son of God" is rather understated.
              > Klemp uses "common language" as a means to decieve the public. When
              > Klemp uses the term "God" he is actually referring to SUGMAD. And
              > Klemp defines the Mahanta as being the incarnation of SUGMAD
              > (pg.130, Eckankar Lexicon). In Eckankar the Higher Initiations
              begin
              > with the Fifth Plane Initiations. An Eckist with the Fifth
              > Initiation is Higher than God and Allah! Therefore Jesus and
              > Mohammed (and all others) are seen as even lower in consciousness
              > than those Eckists on the Fourth Plane! Yet, Klemp even quotes from
              > the Christian Bible to further decieve the public of the real dogma
              > and beliefs of Eckankar. If any Eckist would deny this they are
              > either a newer Eckist, don't read much or lack awareness, or they
              > are lying!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              >
              > Elizabeth wrote:
              >
              > Prometheus wrote:
              >
              > The following Klemp quote was taken from HU-Chat, an "unofficial"
              > Eckankar Yahoo Group Site
              >
              > <snipped>
              >
              > Harold's quote:
              > "You never really know your spouse. Love is for relationships.
              > Otherwise you don't need it much. Relationships between people and
              > between people and animals.
              >
              > <snipped>
              >
              > *** My comments:
              > While reading from a.r.e. this morning I came across a recent
              repost
              > by leaf. I snipped a paragraph below that stood out for me.
              >
              > I find it interesting that Harold spoke at the recent WW; "You
              never
              > really know your spouse. Love is for relationships. Otherwise you
              > don't need it much." I wonder if Harold has read the below repost,
              > which was originally posted by Darrell Johnson, Ford Johnson's
              > brother on April 22nd 2004 titled "Eckankar Spiritual Leader Claims
              > Title of Son of God" located at
              >
              > http://environment.news.prweb.com/releases/2004/4/prweb120175.htm
              >
              >
              >
              > Does Eckankar Still Work For The Eckist?
              >
              > <snipped>
              >
              > Do you know the truth about that religion or path?
              >
              > Much like a personal relationship filled with love and devotion,
              > it "works" for both partners when it is based on trust 3/4 truth
              3/4
              > and love. However, if one partner is unfaithful or has been
              > dishonest about fundamental issues, a relationship that may appear
              > to pass all the tests cannot do so without fundamental compromises
              > once the deception, the lies and the dishonesty is finally
              revealed.
              > So, the questions that comprise this test presuppose that an
              > affirmative response is based on knowing the real history of the
              > religion and what it represents.
              >
              >
              > *** So Harold's comment seems clear now.... Create that question
              > of doubt and suspicion in the members minds about their loved one,
              > in turn create a stronger reliance on the LEM / Mahanta. You can
              > only trust the Mahanta..... so I wonder how many fanatical eckies
              > went home with this quote playing over and over in their minds?
              > Returning home they have been implanted with another brainwashing
              > techneque, complete love and reliance on that Mythical God Man....
              >
              > Love is for relationships, otherwise you don't need it ["LOVE"]
              > much? Seems BIG Harry has been the unfaithful one in his
              > relationships.... and who really needs him? ;-) NOT ME
              >
              > Liz
              >
            • prometheus_973
              Hello Christel, Well, God and Allah are seen as Fourth Plane dieties by Eckankar, therefore, they would be the equivalent to 4th Initiates. The Christian God
              Message 6 of 6 , Nov 2, 2005
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                Hello Christel,

                Well, God and Allah are seen as Fourth Plane dieties by Eckankar,
                therefore, they would be the equivalent to 4th Initiates. The
                Christian God and the Moslem God (Allah) and others are seen by
                Eckankar as residing on the 4th or Mental Plane. The prophets and
                saviors of these world religions are usually seen as residing on
                even lower planes of consciousness. Also, any religion that is
                emotional (Astral) is seen as a 2nd Plane religion by Eckankar.

                The Mahanta is at least a 14th Plane diety and is the incarnation of
                the SUGMAD (Eckankar Lexicon). The SUGMAD ("God" of Eckankar)
                resides on a Plane of consciousness way beyond the 14th, but I'm not
                sure where this is stated in the Eck works. Anyway, this means that
                the Mahanta (14th Plane) is 10 times greater than Allah or the
                Christian God (4th Plane) or of any God of other world religions!
                And, the SUGMAD is even greater!

                I did find a quote, but you may need to look in the Shariyat to find
                a more complete explanation. The following quote is from a 1983
                printing of "The Spiritual Notebook" by Paul Twitchell (Ch.3, pg.37).

                "On closer examination, the fourth plane appears to be the heaven
                for all religions. The followers of Judaism, Islamism, Buddhism,
                Taoism, Bahaiism, Jainism, Shintoism, Sikkhism, and Mithraism, to
                name but a few, adopt this plane of existence after quitting their
                physical bodies."

                Prometheus


                Christel-Heine wrote:

                hallo, Prometheus,
                where in Eckankar works is written, that "God and Allah are only as
                Fourth Initiate's"? is't in Eckankar Lexicon too?

                thank you christel


                > <prometheus_973@y...> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hi Liz,
                > > Eckankar sees God and Allah (at best) as 4th Plane dieties!
                Both
                > God
                > > and Allah are on the same level of consciousness as is a Fourth
                > > Initiate in Eckankar! Therefore, Darrell Johnson's comments
                about
                > > Klemp seeing himself as the "Son of God" is rather understated.
                > > Klemp uses "common language" as a means to decieve the public.
                When
                > > Klemp uses the term "God" he is actually referring to SUGMAD.
                And
                > > Klemp defines the Mahanta as being the incarnation of SUGMAD
                > > (pg.130, Eckankar Lexicon). In Eckankar the Higher Initiations
                > begin
                > > with the Fifth Plane Initiations. An Eckist with the Fifth
                > > Initiation is Higher than God and Allah! Therefore Jesus and
                > > Mohammed (and all others) are seen as even lower in
                consciousness
                > > than those Eckists on the Fourth Plane! Yet, Klemp even quotes
                from
                > > the Christian Bible to further decieve the public of the real
                dogma
                > > and beliefs of Eckankar. If any Eckist would deny this they are
                > > either a newer Eckist, don't read much or lack awareness, or
                they
                > > are lying!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > >
                > > Elizabeth wrote:
                > >
                > > Prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > The following Klemp quote was taken from HU-Chat,
                an "unofficial"
                > > Eckankar Yahoo Group Site
                > >
                > > <snipped>
                > >
                > > Harold's quote:
                > > "You never really know your spouse. Love is for relationships.
                > > Otherwise you don't need it much. Relationships between people
                and
                > > between people and animals.
                > >
                > > <snipped>
                > >
                > > *** My comments:
                > > While reading from a.r.e. this morning I came across a recent
                > repost
                > > by leaf. I snipped a paragraph below that stood out for me.
                > >
                > > I find it interesting that Harold spoke at the recent WW; "You
                > never
                > > really know your spouse. Love is for relationships. Otherwise
                you
                > > don't need it much." I wonder if Harold has read the below
                repost,
                > > which was originally posted by Darrell Johnson, Ford Johnson's
                > > brother on April 22nd 2004 titled "Eckankar Spiritual Leader
                Claims
                > > Title of Son of God" located at
                > >
                > > http://environment.news.prweb.com/releases/2004/4/prweb120175.htm
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Does Eckankar Still Work For The Eckist?
                > >
                > > <snipped>
                > >
                > > Do you know the truth about that religion or path?
                > >
                > > Much like a personal relationship filled with love and devotion,
                > > it "works" for both partners when it is based on trust 3/4 truth
                > 3/4
                > > and love. However, if one partner is unfaithful or has been
                > > dishonest about fundamental issues, a relationship that may
                appear
                > > to pass all the tests cannot do so without fundamental
                compromises
                > > once the deception, the lies and the dishonesty is finally
                > revealed.
                > > So, the questions that comprise this test presuppose that an
                > > affirmative response is based on knowing the real history of the
                > > religion and what it represents.
                > >
                > >
                > > *** So Harold's comment seems clear now.... Create that
                question
                > > of doubt and suspicion in the members minds about their loved
                one,
                > > in turn create a stronger reliance on the LEM / Mahanta. You
                can
                > > only trust the Mahanta..... so I wonder how many fanatical
                eckies
                > > went home with this quote playing over and over in their minds?
                > > Returning home they have been implanted with another
                brainwashing
                > > techneque, complete love and reliance on that Mythical God
                Man....
                > >
                > > Love is for relationships, otherwise you don't need it ["LOVE"]
                > > much? Seems BIG Harry has been the unfaithful one in his
                > > relationships.... and who really needs him? ;-) NOT ME
                > >
                > > Liz
                > >
                >
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