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Three Invisible Guys at EK Temple for a Past Worldwide

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  • prometheus_973
    Yes, Klemp shared this delusional and imaginary daydream in the 09/2013 H.I. Letter. This isolated event/story is being used to, once again, validate PT s/HK s
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 13, 2013
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      Yes, Klemp shared this delusional

      and imaginary daydream in the 09/2013 
      H.I. Letter. This isolated event/story 
      is being used to, once again, validate 
      PT's/HK's claims that there is an ancient 
      lineage of ECK Masters. The ancient
      lineage story/myth/lie gives Klemp 
      his authority as it did Twitchell. And, 
      it give Hope that people (EKists) can 
      have experiences with them in this 
      Here and Now Outer Reality! 

      Does this make the experiencer 
      of a visit from Three ECK Masters 
      (simultaneously) a Prophet and the 
      Spiritual equal to Klemp? It could 
      when one looks at Biblical history.
      Not really. You see, the ECKist
      was a woman. Therefore, there's
      no threat to Klemp since women
      in the Bible and in Eckankar cannot
      become Prophets!

      Furthermore, it's interesting to note
      that Klemp states this woman's
      'ekperience' occurred 'Some years 
      ago.' What? Nothing new to share?

      Thus, is Klemp planting a seed 
      for more delusion to sprout, grow, 
      and bloom for this year's EK World 
      Wide? Most assuredly! And, it's 
      another way to get people volunteer 
      at the Temple and make a Donation.

      Okay, here's the story in a nutshell.

      'Celine' volunteered to 'serve' at the
      EK Temple and arrived so early that
      the doors were still locked, although, 
      the staff was inside. She sat down
      outside on a bench to wait for the 
      doors to be unlocked. 'Three' men
      in strange garb approached her and
      'insisted' on sharing her bench and
      she needed to slide over to make 
      room for them. 

      Okay, does this sound strange?
      But that's how the lies start. 
      This is how the scammers 
      get their foot into the door to 
      your mind by getting you to 
      accept something implausible 
      from the start. Now it's time 
      to take the next step to see 
      just how gullible and desperate
      the EK member/believer is.

      The one man was tall and wore
      a Turquoise Turban and was
      usually the spokesman for the
      three. The other two wore darkish
      business suits. Apparently it was
      a cold day and none of the men
      wore overcoats. Since they were
      impervious to the cold this is one
      indication that they might be EK
      Masters... other than their rudeness
      to squeeze in on her while she was
      sitting on the bench.

      They asked her a lot of questions,
      although, my guess is that 
      she doesn't remember them 
      (like with dreams) since Klemp
      is not sharing what the questions 
      were. However, the questions
      and the men made her nervous
      since she checked the locked
      door after each time she answered.

      "BUT she had questions too."
      She asked the men how long
      they had been ECKists? Of
      course that never got a response.
      Instead, the turbaned guy said 
      something that was dated, didn't 
      make sense, and was a lie, 
      especially, if one knows 'EK 
      History.' 

      The guy in the turban said, 'How 
      lucky Paul Twitchell was to have 
      been trained by Sudar Singh.'

      For one thing 'Sudar' Singh was
      actually Kirpal Singh. Plus, if
      one believes the Sudar Singh
      story it's that Sudar was the 
      970th LEM and that he only
      gave Twitchell the 1st & 2nd 
      Initiations circa 1923 when PT 
      was age of 15 and after meeting 
      Sudar in Paris with Paul's sister 
      Kay-Dee. They both followed 
      him to India and stayed for about 
      10 months.

      After this, Sudar supposedly 
      handed PT over to Rebazar for 
      two additional trips to India in 
      the early 1950s where the conman/
      liar Twitchell claims he finally 
      completed his 12 Initiations.

      Okay, back to the EK Master story-

      Next, the guy in the turban turned
      to his companions and said, 'Can
      you sing HU within?' They nodded
      yes and the four of them 'sang' 
      this holy name of 'God' each in
      their own way. After awhile 'number
      one' said to Celine, 'You may go
      now.' The Temple doors clicked 
      open and Three 'hostesses' stood
      at the doors.

      Klemp likes to use the EK Principle
      of the Threes, but seems to overlook
      the fact that referring to the three
      female volunteers as 'hostesses' is 
      a sexist term.

      However, the Three wise guys 
      approached Celine again, 'Repeat 
      your name three times and spell it.' 
      She did. The spokesman then asked 
      the directions to the men's room 
      and all left. BUT they never came 
      out (circle jerk?).

      Interesting, that Celine knew the
      directions to the men's room. And
      we find out later that none of the
      other 'hostesses' ever saw these 
      men when the doors were initially
      opened. Only Celine had seen them.

      Does this mean that EK Masters
      are everywhere but only choose
      certain people and always private
      isolated situations to reveal themselves? 
      That's convenient! 

      Why don't they reveal themselves
      or appear at the private H.I. Meetings 
      during Seminars? See, this is more
      proof that it's all a religious lie that 
      requires faith and belief and a good
      imagination.

      Months later Celine got the answer 
      to who one of these ECK Masters 
      was when ECKankar released a 
      'picture' of Rami Nuri (from Venus).
      I wonder why she didn't realize who
      he was since the Letter 'M' appears
      on his forehead and this information
      is listed in Klemp's older EK Lexicon?

      BTW- Does anyone really believe
      that this guy came from Venus?
      Nobody can live on Venus! Really!
      This is science! Why are EKists 
      that stupid and gullible? Actually,
      when there's a conflict with common
      sense and belief a good EKist will
      put it out of their mind and not think
      about it... conflict resolved!

      Here's a really stupid finish to 
      this story-

      Strangers at the ECK Temple 
      approached Celine and said,
      'You've had a change in consciousness.'
      Klemp is claiming it was due to
      her 'chance encounter' with the
      ECK Masters. So, ECKists
      approached Celine at the Temple
      and, basically, told her she experienced
      'a miracle' (a change in consciousness).
      Apparently she couldn't keep silent
      and told them of her daydream/delusion.

      I only have one question. Were 
      these ECKists, including 'Celine' 
      and Klemp, off their meds again?

      Prometheus 


        



       
    • Janice Pfeiffer
      I often wondered if having a mental tag of some kind was an advantage as an eckist.  We had a few in our group and no one seemed to bother them at all with
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 16, 2013
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        I often wondered if having a mental tag of some kind was an advantage as an eckist.  We had a few in our group and no one seemed to bother them at all with their rude arrogant attitudes.  Actually, these people were tended to in recognition of their conditions.  They were talked about in whispers but allowed to do as they pleased for the most part.  To cut it short, can anyone tell me what attitudes the lem and other higher ups have on those who supposedly suffer with a mental illness?  Are they special as eckist or just a burden willingly carried by the group?  I wonder because the present lem talked about his off his rockers time which seem to be important for his growth.  Feed back anyone? Please.  Thanks

        From: "prometheus_973@..." <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 4:39 PM
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Three Invisible Guys at EK Temple for a Past Worldwide
         
        Yes, Klemp shared this delusional
        and imaginary daydream in the 09/2013 
        H.I. Letter. This isolated event/story 
        is being used to, once again, validate 
        PT's/HK's claims that there is an ancient 
        lineage of ECK Masters. The ancient
        lineage story/myth/lie gives Klemp 
        his authority as it did Twitchell. And, 
        it give Hope that people (EKists) can 
        have experiences with them in this 
        Here and Now Outer Reality! 

        Does this make the experiencer 
        of a visit from Three ECK Masters 
        (simultaneously) a Prophet and the 
        Spiritual equal to Klemp? It could 
        when one looks at Biblical history.
        Not really. You see, the ECKist
        was a woman. Therefore, there's
        no threat to Klemp since women
        in the Bible and in Eckankar cannot
        become Prophets!

        Furthermore, it's interesting to note
        that Klemp states this woman's
        'ekperience' occurred 'Some years 
        ago.' What? Nothing new to share?

        Thus, is Klemp planting a seed 
        for more delusion to sprout, grow, 
        and bloom for this year's EK World 
        Wide? Most assuredly! And, it's 
        another way to get people volunteer 
        at the Temple and make a Donation.

        Okay, here's the story in a nutshell.

        'Celine' volunteered to 'serve' at the
        EK Temple and arrived so early that
        the doors were still locked, although, 
        the staff was inside. She sat down
        outside on a bench to wait for the 
        doors to be unlocked. 'Three' men
        in strange garb approached her and
        'insisted' on sharing her bench and
        she needed to slide over to make 
        room for them. 

        Okay, does this sound strange?
        But that's how the lies start. 
        This is how the scammers 
        get their foot into the door to 
        your mind by getting you to 
        accept something implausible 
        from the start. Now it's time 
        to take the next step to see 
        just how gullible and desperate
        the EK member/believer is.

        The one man was tall and wore
        a Turquoise Turban and was
        usually the spokesman for the
        three. The other two wore darkish
        business suits. Apparently it was
        a cold day and none of the men
        wore overcoats. Since they were
        impervious to the cold this is one
        indication that they might be EK
        Masters... other than their rudeness
        to squeeze in on her while she was
        sitting on the bench.

        They asked her a lot of questions,
        although, my guess is that 
        she doesn't remember them 
        (like with dreams) since Klemp
        is not sharing what the questions 
        were. However, the questions
        and the men made her nervous
        since she checked the locked
        door after each time she answered.

        "BUT she had questions too."
        She asked the men how long
        they had been ECKists? Of
        course that never got a response.
        Instead, the turbaned guy said 
        something that was dated, didn't 
        make sense, and was a lie, 
        especially, if one knows 'EK 
        History.' 

        The guy in the turban said, 'How 
        lucky Paul Twitchell was to have 
        been trained by Sudar Singh.'

        For one thing 'Sudar' Singh was
        actually Kirpal Singh. Plus, if
        one believes the Sudar Singh
        story it's that Sudar was the 
        970th LEM and that he only
        gave Twitchell the 1st & 2nd 
        Initiations circa 1923 when PT 
        was age of 15 and after meeting 
        Sudar in Paris with Paul's sister 
        Kay-Dee. They both followed 
        him to India and stayed for about 
        10 months.

        After this, Sudar supposedly 
        handed PT over to Rebazar for 
        two additional trips to India in 
        the early 1950s where the conman/
        liar Twitchell claims he finally 
        completed his 12 Initiations.

        Okay, back to the EK Master story-

        Next, the guy in the turban turned
        to his companions and said, 'Can
        you sing HU within?' They nodded
        yes and the four of them 'sang' 
        this holy name of 'God' each in
        their own way. After awhile 'number
        one' said to Celine, 'You may go
        now.' The Temple doors clicked 
        open and Three 'hostesses' stood
        at the doors.

        Klemp likes to use the EK Principle
        of the Threes, but seems to overlook
        the fact that referring to the three
        female volunteers as 'hostesses' is 
        a sexist term.

        However, the Three wise guys 
        approached Celine again, 'Repeat 
        your name three times and spell it.' 
        She did. The spokesman then asked 
        the directions to the men's room 
        and all left. BUT they never came 
        out (circle jerk?).

        Interesting, that Celine knew the
        directions to the men's room. And
        we find out later that none of the
        other 'hostesses' ever saw these 
        men when the doors were initially
        opened. Only Celine had seen them.

        Does this mean that EK Masters
        are everywhere but only choose
        certain people and always private
        isolated situations to reveal themselves? 
        That's convenient! 

        Why don't they reveal themselves
        or appear at the private H.I. Meetings 
        during Seminars? See, this is more
        proof that it's all a religious lie that 
        requires faith and belief and a good
        imagination.

        Months later Celine got the answer 
        to who one of these ECK Masters 
        was when ECKankar released a 
        'picture' of Rami Nuri (from Venus).
        I wonder why she didn't realize who
        he was since the Letter 'M' appears
        on his forehead and this information
        is listed in Klemp's older EK Lexicon?

        BTW- Does anyone really believe
        that this guy came from Venus?
        Nobody can live on Venus! Really!
        This is science! Why are EKists 
        that stupid and gullible? Actually,
        when there's a conflict with common
        sense and belief a good EKist will
        put it out of their mind and not think
        about it... conflict resolved!

        Here's a really stupid finish to 
        this story-

        Strangers at the ECK Temple 
        approached Celine and said,
        'You've had a change in consciousness.'
        Klemp is claiming it was due to
        her 'chance encounter' with the
        ECK Masters. So, ECKists
        approached Celine at the Temple
        and, basically, told her she experienced
        'a miracle' (a change in consciousness).
        Apparently she couldn't keep silent
        and told them of her daydream/delusion.

        I only have one question. Were 
        these ECKists, including 'Celine' 
        and Klemp, off their meds again?

        Prometheus 


          



         
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Janice, All I can say is that those EKists in my local area who were diagnosed with mental health issues and under treatment for schizophrenia and
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 16, 2013
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          Hello Janice,

          All I can say is that those

          EKists in my local area

          who were diagnosed with 

          mental health issues and 

          under treatment for schizophrenia

          and bi-polar disorder were 

          handled more gently but 

          weren't given special

          treatment if they acted

          improperly and caused

          disruptions. Even when

          they were on their meds

          they had to be watched

          and it was recommended

          to one that she probably

          shouldn't do the HU silently. 


          Only a few of us were privy

          to their health issues.


          The two that I had dealings 

          with were nice people but

          were very fragile. They 

          didn't continue to come 

          to the center and might 

          have dropped out of ECK.

          From what I heard I'm 

          thinking that the other 

          ECKists were a little rough

          on them, at times, during

          small group discussions

          and in Satsang classes.


          However, I had more problems

          with the whiners and those

          who played the victim. Some

          people can't handle responsibility

          nor criticism when they don't

          do as they've agreed. They liked

          their job title and elevated status

          but didn't like doing the work.

          I had more problems with this

          type of EKist than any with 

          diagnosed mental issues.


          Prometheus



          Janice wrote:

          I often wondered if having a mental tag of some kind was an advantage as an eckist.  We had a few in our group and no one seemed to bother them at all with their rude arrogant attitudes.  Actually, these people were tended to in recognition of their conditions.  They were talked about in whispers but allowed to do as they pleased for the most part.  To cut it short, can anyone tell me what attitudes the lem and other higher ups have on those who supposedly suffer with a mental illness?  Are they special as eckist or just a burden willingly carried by the group?  I wonder because the present lem talked about his off his rockers time which seem to be important for his growth.  Feed back anyone? Please.  Thanks 



          ---In eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com, <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:

          I often wondered if having a mental tag of some kind was an advantage as an eckist.  We had a few in our group and no one seemed to bother them at all with their rude arrogant attitudes.  Actually, these people were tended to in recognition of their conditions.  They were talked about in whispers but allowed to do as they pleased for the most part.  To cut it short, can anyone tell me what attitudes the lem and other higher ups have on those who supposedly suffer with a mental illness?  Are they special as eckist or just a burden willingly carried by the group?  I wonder because the present lem talked about his off his rockers time which seem to be important for his growth.  Feed back anyone? Please.  Thanks

          From: "prometheus_973@..." <prometheus_973@...>
          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 4:39 PM
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Three Invisible Guys at EK Temple for a Past Worldwide
           
          Yes, Klemp shared this delusional
          and imaginary daydream in the 09/2013 
          H.I. Letter. This isolated event/story 
          is being used to, once again, validate 
          PT's/HK's claims that there is an ancient 
          lineage of ECK Masters. The ancient
          lineage story/myth/lie gives Klemp 
          his authority as it did Twitchell. And, 
          it give Hope that people (EKists) can 
          have experiences with them in this 
          Here and Now Outer Reality! 

          Does this make the experiencer 
          of a visit from Three ECK Masters 
          (simultaneously) a Prophet and the 
          Spiritual equal to Klemp? It could 
          when one looks at Biblical history.
          Not really. You see, the ECKist
          was a woman. Therefore, there's
          no threat to Klemp since women
          in the Bible and in Eckankar cannot
          become Prophets!

          Furthermore, it's interesting to note
          that Klemp states this woman's
          'ekperience' occurred 'Some years 
          ago.' What? Nothing new to share?

          Thus, is Klemp planting a seed 
          for more delusion to sprout, grow, 
          and bloom for this year's EK World 
          Wide? Most assuredly! And, it's 
          another way to get people volunteer 
          at the Temple and make a Donation.

          Okay, here's the story in a nutshell.

          'Celine' volunteered to 'serve' at the
          EK Temple and arrived so early that
          the doors were still locked, although, 
          the staff was inside. She sat down
          outside on a bench to wait for the 
          doors to be unlocked. 'Three' men
          in strange garb approached her and
          'insisted' on sharing her bench and
          she needed to slide over to make 
          room for them. 

          Okay, does this sound strange?
          But that's how the lies start. 
          This is how the scammers 
          get their foot into the door to 
          your mind by getting you to 
          accept something implausible 
          from the start. Now it's time 
          to take the next step to see 
          just how gullible and desperate
          the EK member/believer is.

          The one man was tall and wore
          a Turquoise Turban and was
          usually the spokesman for the
          three. The other two wore darkish
          business suits. Apparently it was
          a cold day and none of the men
          wore overcoats. Since they were
          impervious to the cold this is one
          indication that they might be EK
          Masters... other than their rudeness
          to squeeze in on her while she was
          sitting on the bench.

          They asked her a lot of questions,
          although, my guess is that 
          she doesn't remember them 
          (like with dreams) since Klemp
          is not sharing what the questions 
          were. However, the questions
          and the men made her nervous
          since she checked the locked
          door after each time she answered.

          "BUT she had questions too."
          She asked the men how long
          they had been ECKists? Of
          course that never got a response.
          Instead, the turbaned guy said 
          something that was dated, didn't 
          make sense, and was a lie, 
          especially, if one knows 'EK 
          History.' 

          The guy in the turban said, 'How 
          lucky Paul Twitchell was to have 
          been trained by Sudar Singh.'

          For one thing 'Sudar' Singh was
          actually Kirpal Singh. Plus, if
          one believes the Sudar Singh
          story it's that Sudar was the 
          970th LEM and that he only
          gave Twitchell the 1st & 2nd 
          Initiations circa 1923 when PT 
          was age of 15 and after meeting 
          Sudar in Paris with Paul's sister 
          Kay-Dee. They both followed 
          him to India and stayed for about 
          10 months.

          After this, Sudar supposedly 
          handed PT over to Rebazar for 
          two additional trips to India in 
          the early 1950s where the conman/
          liar Twitchell claims he finally 
          completed his 12 Initiations.

          Okay, back to the EK Master story-

          Next, the guy in the turban turned
          to his companions and said, 'Can
          you sing HU within?' They nodded
          yes and the four of them 'sang' 
          this holy name of 'God' each in
          their own way. After awhile 'number
          one' said to Celine, 'You may go
          now.' The Temple doors clicked 
          open and Three 'hostesses' stood
          at the doors.

          Klemp likes to use the EK Principle
          of the Threes, but seems to overlook
          the fact that referring to the three
          female volunteers as 'hostesses' is 
          a sexist term.

          However, the Three wise guys 
          approached Celine again, 'Repeat 
          your name three times and spell it.' 
          She did. The spokesman then asked 
          the directions to the men's room 
          and all left. BUT they never came 
          out (circle jerk?).

          Interesting, that Celine knew the
          directions to the men's room. And
          we find out later that none of the
          other 'hostesses' ever saw these 
          men when the doors were initially
          opened. Only Celine had seen them.

          Does this mean that EK Masters
          are everywhere but only choose
          certain people and always private
          isolated situations to reveal themselves? 
          That's convenient! 

          Why don't they reveal themselves
          or appear at the private H.I. Meetings 
          during Seminars? See, this is more
          proof that it's all a religious lie that 
          requires faith and belief and a good
          imagination.

          Months later Celine got the answer 
          to who one of these ECK Masters 
          was when ECKankar released a 
          'picture' of Rami Nuri (from Venus).
          I wonder why she didn't realize who
          he was since the Letter 'M' appears
          on his forehead and this information
          is listed in Klemp's older EK Lexicon?

          BTW- Does anyone really believe
          that this guy came from Venus?
          Nobody can live on Venus! Really!
          This is science! Why are EKists 
          that stupid and gullible? Actually,
          when there's a conflict with common
          sense and belief a good EKist will
          put it out of their mind and not think
          about it... conflict resolved!

          Here's a really stupid finish to 
          this story-

          Strangers at the ECK Temple 
          approached Celine and said,
          'You've had a change in consciousness.'
          Klemp is claiming it was due to
          her 'chance encounter' with the
          ECK Masters. So, ECKists
          approached Celine at the Temple
          and, basically, told her she experienced
          'a miracle' (a change in consciousness).
          Apparently she couldn't keep silent
          and told them of her daydream/delusion.

          I only have one question. Were 
          these ECKists, including 'Celine' 
          and Klemp, off their meds again?

          Prometheus 


            



           
        • Janice Pfeiffer
          Thanks for your reply Prometheus, I actually was told about a rescue mission that was orchestrated in our local for one Schizophrenic.   The story was that
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 18, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Thanks for your reply Prometheus,
            I actually was told about a rescue mission that was orchestrated in our local for one Schizophrenic.   The story was that his girl friend had asked to be treated like a slave and he agreed to putting a collar and lease on her.  They went out in public like that and the police were called out of concern for the girl.  He was arrested and jailed.  Some of the HIs got him out and counseled him.  I did meet the guy on several occasions.  He may have been loonie but I doubt he was doing anything with out the girls permission.  He was baby sat a lot and those that did seem to think it was their duty.  I wish I had asked why.  I didn't have a problem with there being an eckist with mental issues and I just didn't pay attention at the time. 
             
            Your recent writings got me curious about how Minneapolis would counsel group leaders about what to do with or for them.   Did the main office of the org ever give any ideas of how it was believed the people with mental issues got that way.  Like was it a karma thing?  A learning thing?  An eck flow thing like with hk  or even if they are people set apart for some spiritual reason.  The teachings from hk, made out his episode of that kind had a  profound purpose. 
             
            Ya know, when I start remember some of the things I saw , I still feel stupid that I accepted the crap.  I was never a gullible person but I went into the org and listen and accepted at least on a conscious level.  I don't hate the eople but I would do what I could to prevent other people from being entranced by the empty truth less hype.
             
            Another guestion if I may please ask.  Did you ever feel that eckist lost parts of their personality as eckist?  I am wondering if you ever knew a person long term like as a beginner and after years of brain washing and did you note any real affects yourself in the persons persona?  What I thought I saw was on the surface was a need to fit into the group and an inner fear that they didn't.  I accepted it at the time that it was proberly there because everyone might have self doubts about their worthiness to receive the high teachings. I would say what higher teachings but that is another long involved issue.  I think the set up made people feel paranoid so that was the reason they need to back bite each other.  With out calling names, I did ask a female HI, why the need for bike biting exists.  She accused me of being judgmental.  I disagreed and pointed out that I didn't mention anyones name, I was simply asking why there was a need for it.  I got no answer and didn't get a notice for another initiation until it was known I was quitting. 
             
            Excuse me but people who are willing to get in my face and claim to be the elite in spirituality needed to conduct themselves in a way that at least causes them to appear less maladjusted as a lot of the general population.  What I was seeing was worse than the general population.  And what do you call it when people of higher rank in an org are judging you for your every word and sending their opinions in to Minneapolis to get or deny you an initiation?  I must say that they hide their real operation to the point that you have to invest time and money before seeing their real game.  That does irritate me even though I do admit I stayed willingly.  So I am more irritated with myself I guess. 
             
            It is a fault of mine that if I want to know something, I am relentless about persuing the answer.  And thus was my undoing in the world of eck. 
             
            Thanks for your valued insight.   

            From: "prometheus_973@..." <prometheus_973@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:47 AM
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] RE: Three Invisible Guys at EK Temple for a Past Worldwide
             
            Hello Janice,
            All I can say is that those
            EKists in my local area
            who were diagnosed with 
            mental health issues and 
            under treatment for schizophrenia
            and bi-polar disorder were 
            handled more gently but 
            weren't given special
            treatment if they acted
            improperly and caused
            disruptions. Even when
            they were on their meds
            they had to be watched
            and it was recommended
            to one that she probably
            shouldn't do the HU silently. 

            Only a few of us were privy
            to their health issues.

            The two that I had dealings 
            with were nice people but
            were very fragile. They 
            didn't continue to come 
            to the center and might 
            have dropped out of ECK.
            From what I heard I'm 
            thinking that the other 
            ECKists were a little rough
            on them, at times, during
            small group discussions
            and in Satsang classes.

            However, I had more problems
            with the whiners and those
            who played the victim. Some
            people can't handle responsibility
            nor criticism when they don't
            do as they've agreed. They liked
            their job title and elevated status
            but didn't like doing the work.
            I had more problems with this
            type of EKist than any with 
            diagnosed mental issues.

            Prometheus


            Janice wrote:
            I often wondered if having a mental tag of some kind was an advantage as an eckist.  We had a few in our group and no one seemed to bother them at all with their rude arrogant attitudes.  Actually, these people were tended to in recognition of their conditions.  They were talked about in whispers but allowed to do as they pleased for the most part.  To cut it short, can anyone tell me what attitudes the lem and other higher ups have on those who supposedly suffer with a mental illness?  Are they special as eckist or just a burden willingly carried by the group?  I wonder because the present lem talked about his off his rockers time which seem to be important for his growth.  Feed back anyone? Please.  Thanks 
            ---In eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com, <jepfeiffer@...> wrote:
            I often wondered if having a mental tag of some kind was an advantage as an eckist.  We had a few in our group and no one seemed to bother them at all with their rude arrogant attitudes.  Actually, these people were tended to in recognition of their conditions.  They were talked about in whispers but allowed to do as they pleased for the most part.  To cut it short, can anyone tell me what attitudes the lem and other higher ups have on those who supposedly suffer with a mental illness?  Are they special as eckist or just a burden willingly carried by the group?  I wonder because the present lem talked about his off his rockers time which seem to be important for his growth.  Feed back anyone? Please.  Thanks

            From: "prometheus_973@..." <prometheus_973@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 4:39 PM
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Three Invisible Guys at EK Temple for a Past Worldwide
             
            Yes, Klemp shared this delusional
            and imaginary daydream in the 09/2013 
            H.I. Letter. This isolated event/story 
            is being used to, once again, validate 
            PT's/HK's claims that there is an ancient 
            lineage of ECK Masters. The ancient
            lineage story/myth/lie gives Klemp 
            his authority as it did Twitchell. And, 
            it give Hope that people (EKists) can 
            have experiences with them in this 
            Here and Now Outer Reality! 

            Does this make the experiencer 
            of a visit from Three ECK Masters 
            (simultaneously) a Prophet and the 
            Spiritual equal to Klemp? It could 
            when one looks at Biblical history.
            Not really. You see, the ECKist
            was a woman. Therefore, there's
            no threat to Klemp since women
            in the Bible and in Eckankar cannot
            become Prophets!

            Furthermore, it's interesting to note
            that Klemp states this woman's
            'ekperience' occurred 'Some years 
            ago.' What? Nothing new to share?

            Thus, is Klemp planting a seed 
            for more delusion to sprout, grow, 
            and bloom for this year's EK World 
            Wide? Most assuredly! And, it's 
            another way to get people volunteer 
            at the Temple and make a Donation.

            Okay, here's the story in a nutshell.

            'Celine' volunteered to 'serve' at the
            EK Temple and arrived so early that
            the doors were still locked, although, 
            the staff was inside. She sat down
            outside on a bench to wait for the 
            doors to be unlocked. 'Three' men
            in strange garb approached her and
            'insisted' on sharing her bench and
            she needed to slide over to make 
            room for them. 

            Okay, does this sound strange?
            But that's how the lies start. 
            This is how the scammers 
            get their foot into the door to 
            your mind by getting you to 
            accept something implausible 
            from the start. Now it's time 
            to take the next step to see 
            just how gullible and desperate
            the EK member/believer is.

            The one man was tall and wore
            a Turquoise Turban and was
            usually the spokesman for the
            three. The other two wore darkish
            business suits. Apparently it was
            a cold day and none of the men
            wore overcoats. Since they were
            impervious to the cold this is one
            indication that they might be EK
            Masters... other than their rudeness
            to squeeze in on her while she was
            sitting on the bench.

            They asked her a lot of questions,
            although, my guess is that 
            she doesn't remember them 
            (like with dreams) since Klemp
            is not sharing what the questions 
            were. However, the questions
            and the men made her nervous
            since she checked the locked
            door after each time she answered.

            "BUT she had questions too."
            She asked the men how long
            they had been ECKists? Of
            course that never got a response.
            Instead, the turbaned guy said 
            something that was dated, didn't 
            make sense, and was a lie, 
            especially, if one knows 'EK 
            History.' 

            The guy in the turban said, 'How 
            lucky Paul Twitchell was to have 
            been trained by Sudar Singh.'

            For one thing 'Sudar' Singh was
            actually Kirpal Singh. Plus, if
            one believes the Sudar Singh
            story it's that Sudar was the 
            970th LEM and that he only
            gave Twitchell the 1st & 2nd 
            Initiations circa 1923 when PT 
            was age of 15 and after meeting 
            Sudar in Paris with Paul's sister 
            Kay-Dee. They both followed 
            him to India and stayed for about 
            10 months.

            After this, Sudar supposedly 
            handed PT over to Rebazar for 
            two additional trips to India in 
            the early 1950s where the conman/
            liar Twitchell claims he finally 
            completed his 12 Initiations.

            Okay, back to the EK Master story-

            Next, the guy in the turban turned
            to his companions and said, 'Can
            you sing HU within?' They nodded
            yes and the four of them 'sang' 
            this holy name of 'God' each in
            their own way. After awhile 'number
            one' said to Celine, 'You may go
            now.' The Temple doors clicked 
            open and Three 'hostesses' stood
            at the doors.

            Klemp likes to use the EK Principle
            of the Threes, but seems to overlook
            the fact that referring to the three
            female volunteers as 'hostesses' is 
            a sexist term.

            However, the Three wise guys 
            approached Celine again, 'Repeat 
            your name three times and spell it.' 
            She did. The spokesman then asked 
            the directions to the men's room 
            and all left. BUT they never came 
            out (circle jerk?).

            Interesting, that Celine knew the
            directions to the men's room. And
            we find out later that none of the
            other 'hostesses' ever saw these 
            men when the doors were initially
            opened. Only Celine had seen them.

            Does this mean that EK Masters
            are everywhere but only choose
            certain people and always private
            isolated situations to reveal themselves? 
            That's convenient! 

            Why don't they reveal themselves
            or appear at the private H.I. Meetings 
            during Seminars? See, this is more
            proof that it's all a religious lie that 
            requires faith and belief and a good
            imagination.

            Months later Celine got the answer 
            to who one of these ECK Masters 
            was when ECKankar released a 
            'picture' of Rami Nuri (from Venus).
            I wonder why she didn't realize who
            he was since the Letter 'M' appears
            on his forehead and this information
            is listed in Klemp's older EK Lexicon?

            BTW- Does anyone really believe
            that this guy came from Venus?
            Nobody can live on Venus! Really!
            This is science! Why are EKists 
            that stupid and gullible? Actually,
            when there's a conflict with common
            sense and belief a good EKist will
            put it out of their mind and not think
            about it... conflict resolved!

            Here's a really stupid finish to 
            this story-

            Strangers at the ECK Temple 
            approached Celine and said,
            'You've had a change in consciousness.'
            Klemp is claiming it was due to
            her 'chance encounter' with the
            ECK Masters. So, ECKists
            approached Celine at the Temple
            and, basically, told her she experienced
            'a miracle' (a change in consciousness).
            Apparently she couldn't keep silent
            and told them of her daydream/delusion.

            I only have one question. Were 
            these ECKists, including 'Celine' 
            and Klemp, off their meds again?

            Prometheus 


              



             
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