Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: Re: HK: Look For Signs via "Chance Encounters"

Expand Messages
  • prometheus_973
    Hello Robokidnx, I was funny? Thanks! Sometimes I can t tell how it s coming across... too close to the subject at times I would guess. I enjoyed reading your
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 26, 2013
    • 0 Attachment

      Hello Robokidnx,

      I was funny? Thanks!

      Sometimes I can't tell

      how it's coming across...

      too close to the subject

      at times I would guess.


      I enjoyed reading your

      comments and would

      like to hear more.


      True, the Internet provides

      enough information for

      anyone, except a long-

      time brainwashed EKist, 

      to become a cult buster. 

      Then, again, not every 

      newbie can see past the 

      personal contact from 

      those kind hearted and

      smiling faces of ECK

      missionary/vahanas... 

      and almost every H.I. 

      is one.


      BTW- I've noticed that

      Eckankar is now on Twitter!


      Prometheus 



      ---In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, <eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Prometheus,

      Your post had me laughing.

      Usually you're pretty serious, but I got a kick out of this:

      "This is her proof (and Klemp's proof to all ECKists) that ECKankar is real. Klemo 
      actually fulfills His promises and claims via JUNK MAIL!"

      Don't forget bro, eckankar advertises on the back pages of TV guide. They're still going after the kind of poor late-night suckers who remain vulnerable to their new-age version of old time religion.

      If I believed in twisted evil shit (which I don't), I'd say eckankar, in the hands of the psychotic godman Harold Klemp, has spiraled down into some twisted evil shit. >:-}

      With the help of (once otherwise competent and well-meaning) soldiers and an army of indoctrinated new age fanboys and fangirls, Klemp has constructed from the raw material of his own personal psychosis, a metaphysical cult that challenges the range and power of earlier cults such as Joseph Smith's Mormonism, L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology and Charles Taze Russel's Jehovah's Witnesses.

      Let's be honest. Eckankar could have done some good along the way. Open hearted, intelligent people who sought information and methods to deepen their innate wisdom and capacity for exploring the unknown within themselves could have been empowered on that journey.

      Instead, they got Harold Klemp's psychological obsessions - doctrines rising from his constricted Lutheran upbringing on a Wisconsin farm. From this, Klemp harvested his repertoire of spiritual metaphors. Klemp - the cult godman who frames humanity in terms of his farm boy experience of exploited farm animals - his simple minded metaphysics woven through with the trauma of his protestant christian education written large as eckankar's dogma of the "Lower World Academy."

      Is it any wonder? Eckankar members' view other human beings (and unenlightened run-of-the-mill eckankar members) as farm animals and psycho-mechanical automatons?

      May I?

      Here's what the eckies don't get and why they would be laughing stocks if they weren't so pathetic:

      I've spent the last five weeks intentionally exploring the online demimonde of new age "alternative media." What an eye opener.

      Here's only a speck of what's out there.

      1.

      Fact: Many "advanced level" eckies believe they are skilled remote viewers.

      On-line Internet:
      Sure enough. There are thousands of multiverse alternate time-line remote viewers out there who can see everything clairvoyantly. Only problem is, the time line changes every second and nothing is for sure.

      Back to normal.

      Bottom line:
      Remote viewing is awesome except for the fact that it predicts nothing at all with any accuracy. Advanced level eckies are full of shit.

      Deal with it eckie HI wannabes.

      2.

      Fact: Many eckies know eckankar is real because they have subjective experiences of trademarked eck masters and other eckankar products.

      On-line Internet:
      Have you ever read a conspiracy theory (no matter how wack) that didn't have enough evidence to convince the poor people who wanted to experience it?

      3.

      Tulpas; The occult concept of thought focused creations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa

      Eckankar: Prolong the lie and defend it long enough to produce endurable tulpas.

      There is no truth greater than the lie. ~ Paul Twitchell, The Tiger's Fang.

      Shit, dude. I've got at least a dozen more points to make about what a new age joke eckankar has become. But all in good time.

      It's late here. I'm tired. I'm turning in.

      I'll close with this. Maybe ten years ago or more, eckankar had some cutting edge bullshit based on neuro-science, NLP, game theory and fantasy "quantum" physics. Unfortunately for the cult, now days they got nothing. Regular people like you and me can go online and laugh at all their narrow fundy crap. It's the 21st century. Information is everywhere. The general population is now conceptually light years ahead of eckankar.

      Soon the poor bastards will be knocking on our doors trying to sell the gospel of klempian eck masters and walking away baffled at the ridicule they so richly deserve.

      The more things change, the more they stay the same.

      Poor dumb suckers.
    • robokidnx
      Hi Prometheus, You wrote: Then, again, not every newbie can see past the personal contact from those kind hearted and smiling faces of ECK
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 26, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Prometheus,

        You wrote:
        Then, again, not every
        newbie can see past the
        personal contact from
        those kind hearted and
        smiling faces of ECK
        missionary/vahanas...
        and almost every H.I.
        is one.

        My response:
        Wow. Do you mean to say that the high initiates have actually resorted to love bombing new members now? That's hilarious!

        It's typical though when you think about it. A manipulative mind control cult like eckankar doesn't have the spiritual resources to create an actual environment of love and acceptance. Few religions do.

        Eckankar has never really given weight to the value of love anyway. The best they can do is mumble the word "love" and attach it to other content-free nominalizations like "eck" and "mahanta."

        What eckankar does offer, on the other hand, is a menu of simulacra and models of behavior that are engineered to bring desired results - whatever they happen to be at the time.

        Love? Not so much.
      • noneckchains
        They do a lot of attempts at love , but it is more connected to a how to book like How to Make Friends and Influence People. A relative of mine did develop
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 26, 2013
        • 0 Attachment

          They do a lot of attempts at "love", but it is more connected to a how to book like How to Make Friends and Influence People. A relative of mine did develop the smiley face of the sales pitch. It is a sales technique used by many to gain your trust and disarm you. I've been taken too many times by trusting smiling faces of people I didn't know that well or like my eckie friend, once they realize that you won't play along they aren't very friendly anymore, and can become quite nasty or shun you. Suddenly you have become an agent of kal, and those signs become dark messages that contact with the one who questions will derail them from the path of eck, blaming you, the non believer, for bad karma in their lives, especially if that eckist is a family member. The Shunning HI is a reality and can cause a lot of harm when they have some economic power or status. Manipulation and pretense is the name of the game, acting "as If", but being in reality a the opposite of anything Nice.


          Non (-:



          ---In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, <eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Hi Prometheus,

          You wrote:
          Then, again, not every
          newbie can see past the
          personal contact from
          those kind hearted and
          smiling faces of ECK
          missionary/vahanas...
          and almost every H.I.
          is one.

          My response:
          Wow. Do you mean to say that the high initiates have actually resorted to love bombing new members now? That's hilarious!

          It's typical though when you think about it. A manipulative mind control cult like eckankar doesn't have the spiritual resources to create an actual environment of love and acceptance. Few religions do.

          Eckankar has never really given weight to the value of love anyway. The best they can do is mumble the word "love" and attach it to other content-free nominalizations like "eck" and "mahanta."

          What eckankar does offer, on the other hand, is a menu of simulacra and models of behavior that are engineered to bring desired results - whatever they happen to be at the time.

          Love? Not so much.
        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, The love bombing is a conundrum with Klemp s H.I. Vahana Teams because some H.I.s are emotionally damaged and depict similar arrested development
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 29, 2013
          • 0 Attachment

            Hello All,

            The 'love bombing' is a

            conundrum with Klemp's

            H.I. Vahana Teams because 

            some H.I.s are emotionally 

            damaged and depict similar

            arrested development and

            maladies as Klemp. They

            withhold love and empathy. 


            BTW- Eckankar is 

            And, EKists tend to emulate 

            and model HK or other EK 

            H.I. Authors/Icons and this 

            adds to their psychological

            short-comings. 


            Many H.I.s are numb to

            outside stimuli stimulating

            change and simply attempt 

            to go through the motions 

            of what is expected/required 

            of them by their RESA (ESC)

            in order to work with and be 

            civil to other ECKists. Those

            who can't play the game as 

            well as others don't get promoted 

            to local Satsang (business) 

            positions or to "spiritual" positions 

            (cleric, initiator, ESA, RESA) 

            which will qualify members for

            and lead them to, eventually,

            the 7th Initiation. 


            The 'special' RESA business

            position or the EK Seminar talk

            circuit can get one noticed 

            for the 8th Initiation but there

            are always strings attached

            to anything Klemp hands out

            and loyalty to him and him alone

            must be beyond reproach.

            Klemp's paranoria prevents

            more EKists from receiving

            7th, 8th, 9th or 12th Initiations. 


            BTW- Eckankar is on FaceBook

            and Twitter!


            Yes, Dale Carnegie's book

            "How to Win Friends and Influence

            People" is used as an instructional

            guide for EK Vahanas. 


            In truth, Klemp is no more

            a 'Prophet' than is Bill O'Reilly!

            And, they view religious 'history' 

            in a similar way... they make it

            up by using half-truths, omissions,

            rewrites, additions, and outright

            lies all created by men! 


            Prometheus

             



            ---In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, <eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            They do a lot of attempts at "love", but it is more connected to a how to book like How to Make Friends and Influence People. A relative of mine did develop the smiley face of the sales pitch. It is a sales technique used by many to gain your trust and disarm you. I've been taken too many times by trusting smiling faces of people I didn't know that well or like my eckie friend, once they realize that you won't play along they aren't very friendly anymore, and can become quite nasty or shun you. Suddenly you have become an agent of kal, and those signs become dark messages that contact with the one who questions will derail them from the path of eck, blaming you, the non believer, for bad karma in their lives, especially if that eckist is a family member. The Shunning HI is a reality and can cause a lot of harm when they have some economic power or status. Manipulation and pretense is the name of the game, acting "as If", but being in reality a the opposite of anything Nice.


            Non (-:



            ---In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, <eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            Hi Prometheus,

            You wrote:
            Then, again, not every
            newbie can see past the
            personal contact from
            those kind hearted and
            smiling faces of ECK
            missionary/vahanas...
            and almost every H.I.
            is one.

            My response:
            Wow. Do you mean to say that the high initiates have actually resorted to love bombing new members now? That's hilarious!

            It's typical though when you think about it. A manipulative mind control cult like eckankar doesn't have the spiritual resources to create an actual environment of love and acceptance. Few religions do.

            Eckankar has never really given weight to the value of love anyway. The best they can do is mumble the word "love" and attach it to other content-free nominalizations like "eck" and "mahanta."

            What eckankar does offer, on the other hand, is a menu of simulacra and models of behavior that are engineered to bring desired results - whatever they happen to be at the time.

            Love? Not so much.
          • le_anne_thompson
            are there any teachings ofpaul twitchell that are worth readingat all? I know harolds is fabricated.
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 6, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              are there any teachings ofpaul twitchell that are worth readingat all? I know harolds is fabricated.


            • prometheus_973
              IMO the only book of Twitchell s that is worth a read is: Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master. This book was published by Eckankar in 1980 and
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 15, 2013
              • 0 Attachment

                IMO the only book of 

                Twitchell's that is worth 

                a read is: 

                "Difficulties Of Becoming 

                The Living ECK Master." 


                This book was published

                by Eckankar in 1980 and 

                compiled by Bernadine

                Burlin from Paul's early

                tapes donated by Patti 

                Simpson and Anya Foos-

                Graber. Three of the tapes

                were from interviews in

                June 1971.


                There are additional

                articles from "The Mystic

                World by Sri Paul Twitchell"

                (from Jan-Feb-March 1969 

                until his translation, death).


                Plus, "Some Chela Letters

                to Paulji."


                Additionally, Anya Foos-Garber

                made available the tapes of

                the last meeting Paul held

                with several devoted Initiates

                just hours before his translation.

                "The Last Words Of Sri Paul 

                Twitchell In Cincinnati" comprise

                excerpts of these tape transcripts. 


                It's an interesting book

                because Darwin Gross

                and company reported

                it as it was without doing

                the edits that Klemp is

                known for. One can catch

                Twitchell in a number of

                lies and in the interviews 

                he lets his guard down

                and is honest, at times,

                and this gives us some

                insight into his deceptiveness

                and narcissism. 


                Paul's account of his WWII 

                service where he brags

                about how he created

                chaos in order to get

                out of duty during wartime

                was a real eye opener

                and showed the extent 

                of Twitchell's megalomania.


                On page 48 we read about

                Twitchell's first meeting with

                970th LEM Sudar Singh (in

                Paris) at the age of "about 16"

                and of, supposedly, his first 

                trip to India. This would make 

                the date 1924 since even 

                Klemp has confirmed that 

                Twitchell was born in 1908. 


                It should be noted that even

                Klemp, on Eckankar's Internet

                site, pointed out that Twitchell

                was lying about having traveled

                anywhere far from home in 1935

                at age 27 when he was trying

                to get into "Who's Who in Kentucky."


                Thus, Twitchell being handed

                off to Rebazar for further training

                on two additional trips to India

                are lies as well. The trips to India

                and the Rebazar character are lies. 

                Therefore, the Initiations and the 

                Mastership which was handed to 

                Gross and to Klemp (by the fictitious 

                Rebazar) were/are lies too!  


                The lies of this trip with his 

                sister begin on page 38. Even

                ECKist Doug Marman has

                said that Twitchell deceived

                people about this trip since

                Paul's sister Katie (Kay-Dee)

                was studying art in Paris, KY.

                versus Paris, France. 

                Therefore, how could they

                have met Sudar (a.k.a. Kirpal)

                Singh and followed him

                to India for 10 months? 

                It's another lie and proves 

                that Eckankar is built upon 

                foundation of lies originating

                with Twitchell. 


                Anyway, lots of luck on 

                finding this book. Eckankar

                under Klemp bought up 

                and destroyed all available

                copies. I still have mine

                however!


                Prometheus







                ---In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, <eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                are there any teachings ofpaul twitchell that are worth readingat all? I know harolds is fabricated.


              • noneckchains
                Fascinating! Since the book is out of print, I wonder if it is possible to make it into a PDF book. I d like to read this book, now that I know what it is
                Message 7 of 10 , Oct 15, 2013
                • 0 Attachment

                  Fascinating! Since the book is out of print, I wonder if it is possible to make it into a PDF book. I'd like to read this book, now that I know what it is really about.


                  Non (-:\



                  ---In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, <eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  IMO the only book of 

                  Twitchell's that is worth 

                  a read is: 

                  "Difficulties Of Becoming 

                  The Living ECK Master." 


                  This book was published

                  by Eckankar in 1980 and 

                  compiled by Bernadine

                  Burlin from Paul's early

                  tapes donated by Patti 

                  Simpson and Anya Foos-

                  Graber. Three of the tapes

                  were from interviews in

                  June 1971.


                  There are additional

                  articles from "The Mystic

                  World by Sri Paul Twitchell"

                  (from Jan-Feb-March 1969 

                  until his translation, death).


                  Plus, "Some Chela Letters

                  to Paulji."


                  Additionally, Anya Foos-Garber

                  made available the tapes of

                  the last meeting Paul held

                  with several devoted Initiates

                  just hours before his translation.

                  "The Last Words Of Sri Paul 

                  Twitchell In Cincinnati" comprise

                  excerpts of these tape transcripts. 


                  It's an interesting book

                  because Darwin Gross

                  and company reported

                  it as it was without doing

                  the edits that Klemp is

                  known for. One can catch

                  Twitchell in a number of

                  lies and in the interviews 

                  he lets his guard down

                  and is honest, at times,

                  and this gives us some

                  insight into his deceptiveness

                  and narcissism. 


                  Paul's account of his WWII 

                  service where he brags

                  about how he created

                  chaos in order to get

                  out of duty during wartime

                  was a real eye opener

                  and showed the extent 

                  of Twitchell's megalomania.


                  On page 48 we read about

                  Twitchell's first meeting with

                  970th LEM Sudar Singh (in

                  Paris) at the age of "about 16"

                  and of, supposedly, his first 

                  trip to India. This would make 

                  the date 1924 since even 

                  Klemp has confirmed that 

                  Twitchell was born in 1908. 


                  It should be noted that even

                  Klemp, on Eckankar's Internet

                  site, pointed out that Twitchell

                  was lying about having traveled

                  anywhere far from home in 1935

                  at age 27 when he was trying

                  to get into "Who's Who in Kentucky."


                  Thus, Twitchell being handed

                  off to Rebazar for further training

                  on two additional trips to India

                  are lies as well. The trips to India

                  and the Rebazar character are lies. 

                  Therefore, the Initiations and the 

                  Mastership which was handed to 

                  Gross and to Klemp (by the fictitious 

                  Rebazar) were/are lies too!  


                  The lies of this trip with his 

                  sister begin on page 38. Even

                  ECKist Doug Marman has

                  said that Twitchell deceived

                  people about this trip since

                  Paul's sister Katie (Kay-Dee)

                  was studying art in Paris, KY.

                  versus Paris, France. 

                  Therefore, how could they

                  have met Sudar (a.k.a. Kirpal)

                  Singh and followed him

                  to India for 10 months? 

                  It's another lie and proves 

                  that Eckankar is built upon 

                  foundation of lies originating

                  with Twitchell. 


                  Anyway, lots of luck on 

                  finding this book. Eckankar

                  under Klemp bought up 

                  and destroyed all available

                  copies. I still have mine

                  however!


                  Prometheus







                  ---In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, <eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  are there any teachings ofpaul twitchell that are worth readingat all? I know harolds is fabricated.


                • prometheus_973
                  I did have some info sent to me and was offered it in PDF format. Here s the site for Difficulties Of Becoming The Living ECK Master:
                  Message 8 of 10 , Oct 19, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment

                    I did have some info sent to me 

                    and was offered it in PDF format.

                    Here's the site for Difficulties Of

                    Becoming The Living ECK Master:

                    http://www.scribd.com/doc/176832424/DOBTLEM-Extracts-1971-09-16-Pub-1980 



                    ---In eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com, <eckchains@...> wrote:

                    Fascinating! Since the book is out of print, I wonder if it is possible to make it into a PDF book. I'd like to read this book, now that I know what it is really about.


                    Non (-:\



                    ---In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, <eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    IMO the only book of 

                    Twitchell's that is worth 

                    a read is: 

                    "Difficulties Of Becoming 

                    The Living ECK Master." 


                    This book was published

                    by Eckankar in 1980 and 

                    compiled by Bernadine

                    Burlin from Paul's early

                    tapes donated by Patti 

                    Simpson and Anya Foos-

                    Graber. Three of the tapes

                    were from interviews in

                    June 1971.


                    There are additional

                    articles from "The Mystic

                    World by Sri Paul Twitchell"

                    (from Jan-Feb-March 1969 

                    until his translation, death).


                    Plus, "Some Chela Letters

                    to Paulji."


                    Additionally, Anya Foos-Garber

                    made available the tapes of

                    the last meeting Paul held

                    with several devoted Initiates

                    just hours before his translation.

                    "The Last Words Of Sri Paul 

                    Twitchell In Cincinnati" comprise

                    excerpts of these tape transcripts. 


                    It's an interesting book

                    because Darwin Gross

                    and company reported

                    it as it was without doing

                    the edits that Klemp is

                    known for. One can catch

                    Twitchell in a number of

                    lies and in the interviews 

                    he lets his guard down

                    and is honest, at times,

                    and this gives us some

                    insight into his deceptiveness

                    and narcissism. 


                    Paul's account of his WWII 

                    service where he brags

                    about how he created

                    chaos in order to get

                    out of duty during wartime

                    was a real eye opener

                    and showed the extent 

                    of Twitchell's megalomania.


                    On page 48 we read about

                    Twitchell's first meeting with

                    970th LEM Sudar Singh (in

                    Paris) at the age of "about 16"

                    and of, supposedly, his first 

                    trip to India. This would make 

                    the date 1924 since even 

                    Klemp has confirmed that 

                    Twitchell was born in 1908. 


                    It should be noted that even

                    Klemp, on Eckankar's Internet

                    site, pointed out that Twitchell

                    was lying about having traveled

                    anywhere far from home in 1935

                    at age 27 when he was trying

                    to get into "Who's Who in Kentucky."


                    Thus, Twitchell being handed

                    off to Rebazar for further training

                    on two additional trips to India

                    are lies as well. The trips to India

                    and the Rebazar character are lies. 

                    Therefore, the Initiations and the 

                    Mastership which was handed to 

                    Gross and to Klemp (by the fictitious 

                    Rebazar) were/are lies too!  


                    The lies of this trip with his 

                    sister begin on page 38. Even

                    ECKist Doug Marman has

                    said that Twitchell deceived

                    people about this trip since

                    Paul's sister Katie (Kay-Dee)

                    was studying art in Paris, KY.

                    versus Paris, France. 

                    Therefore, how could they

                    have met Sudar (a.k.a. Kirpal)

                    Singh and followed him

                    to India for 10 months? 

                    It's another lie and proves 

                    that Eckankar is built upon 

                    foundation of lies originating

                    with Twitchell. 


                    Anyway, lots of luck on 

                    finding this book. Eckankar

                    under Klemp bought up 

                    and destroyed all available

                    copies. I still have mine

                    however!


                    Prometheus







                    ---In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, <eckankarsurvivorsanonymous@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    are there any teachings ofpaul twitchell that are worth readingat all? I know harolds is fabricated.


                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.