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Re: Eckankar and Black Magic (revised)

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Moringstara and All, It always made me wonder how some people were suckered into Eckankar. All are pretty much NEW AGE types, but what else do they have
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 24, 2013
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      Hello Moringstara and All,
      It always made me wonder
      how some people were suckered
      into Eckankar. All are pretty
      much NEW AGE types, but
      what else do they have in
      common?

      Of course the African chelas
      have a totally different take
      on this and are more superstitious
      and look to natural elements,
      signs, and remedies. They mix
      Eckankar with local superstitions,
      voo-doo, Black Magic and a
      hodge-podge of things to make
      their special elixir work for them.

      ECKists are very disenfranchised
      with their parents' religion because
      faith and belief were emphasized
      versus a Gnostic (esoteric mystical
      knowledge) experience. However,
      Eckists have come full circle. Klemp
      has returned them to their parents'
      religion and the need to have faith
      and belief. The promises haven't
      materialized. EKists can only imagine
      and pretend to a certain degree
      and for a limited time until they
      are forced to see the Truth. But
      even then it's difficult to get beyond
      the years of habitual delusion.

      What else could have suckered
      people into Eckankar?

      What types seek New Age Religions,
      what are the factors: gullibility;
      innocence; being too trusting;
      naivety; eagerness to expand
      awareness; an innate spiritual
      hunger; inexperience with religious
      beliefs; distrust of orthodox
      religions; association to metaphysics;
      contact with Eastern thought;
      curiosity about the spiritual;
      wholistic and natural or nature
      based thought and diet; a need
      to be non-conformists!

      It's fun to be different and somewhat
      private with your (inner) beliefs,
      until, you're forced (intimidated)
      to become missionaries (vahanas)
      and a member of a free sales staff.
      One sells and promotes Eckankar
      by leaving out important information
      because peoples' consciousness
      can't handle it! The Truth is that
      people are taken back, defensive,
      and even offended when suddenly
      shown the full view of the EK scam.

      But, Intros and Talks need to be
      done, and done well, in order to
      get you noticed and recommended
      for more Outer initiations these lead
      to a higher status with more work
      and responsibility and to a greater
      but imagined spiritual awareness.
      It's an Ego trap. It has nothing to
      do with inner spirituality. It's all
      an outer, subjective, and ego
      driven show taking place. It's
      a pyramid scheme except you're
      only left holding an empty bag.

      EK, also, fits well with the artsy-fartsy
      types and the rebels of society, but
      what about those business professionals
      and science or analytically minded
      ECKists? I always wondered why those
      with such a clever and knowledgable
      mind allowed themselves to be suckered
      by the Mahanta dribble.

      BTW, Morningstara, I'm sometimes
      in contact with David Lane and
      if Harold said that David supports
      Eckankar he did lie. David does
      support those involved with the
      'Sound Current' per se, as does
      Sant Mat which David is involved
      with, but he does Not support
      Klemp's/Twitchell's adulterated
      version of Sant Mat via the Mahanta
      scam. Thus, Lane doesn't support
      Eckankar since the 14th Initiate
      Mahanta and Inner Master belief/
      fantasy is the foundation of
      Eckankar's religious system.

      No! Klemp is Not loving or naive.
      He has no Empathy! Just read his
      books and look for it... it's missing!
      No, if Klemp loves God it's because
      he sees himself as God. HK's delusional,
      is mean-spirited, petty, and holds
      grudges. These are not the indicators
      of a 'spiritual' man nor of someone
      'advanced.' Plus, he's a chauvinist
      as was Paul and Darwin! Let the
      women do the heavy lifting and
      give the men the credit. Sure, throw
      out a few crumbs (7th, 8th and 9th
      initiations) but don't make anyone
      else an EK Master even if women
      can't become the LEM/Mahanta.
      Why's that? It's because Klemp wants
      to be far above the heads of anyone
      else in the org and enjoys being
      worshipped. Don't fool yourself
      into believing that Klemp isn't in
      charge.

      Klemp has the ability to hire
      and fire without Board approval.

      Klemp feigns humility by saying
      he's not to be worshipped while
      doing everything possible To Be
      Worshipped. This keeps ECKists
      off-balanced and confused as
      does his other double-speak
      and contradictory actions. It's
      all a part of playing-the-game,
      pretending (As If), and acting
      in a role expected of him.

      Klemp learned How To Play-The-
      Game (his own words) in order
      to trick the psychiatrist and be
      released early from the mental
      institution he was committed to
      back in the early '70s.

      The less contact with the public
      the better. This helps Klemp to
      hide behind the curtain or facade
      he has built. Why doesn't a
      'Modern Prophet' give prophesy?

      This fraud is, also, why Klemp
      doesn't promote Eckankar via
      a radio program... it's a double
      standard where he gets to be
      a recluse and 'write' his books,
      using other peoples stories and/
      or editorializing, while expecting
      EKists to do the dirty/hard work.

      The accolades and "awards" HK's
      books receive are from the same
      local organization that publishers
      pay to belong to. Klemp, also,
      paid a fee to be listed in the
      International Who's Who of
      Intellectuals, although, Klemp's
      I.Q., education, and intellectual
      achievements are subpar to
      that of any true intellectual.

      I'm still waiting to see when
      Klemp/ the ESC will share
      their financial information.
      Usually the local Satsangs
      will show their funds and
      expenditures but the ESC
      doesn't! As Below, So Above?
      No, but the ESC approves
      of the Satsang Societies
      and RESAs showing their
      funds while they don't!

      The RESAs seem to
      accept this generalized
      one dimensional view
      of ESC expenditures that
      Peter sometimes shares
      with them and the membership.

      Yet, the EK Board and
      the RESAs know nothing
      about payroll and salaries
      or of property, cash and
      stocks owned by the Klemp's
      or Peter Skelsky. The EK
      Board probably knows about
      business assets and certain
      expenditures, staff health
      care costs and retirement
      plans, rental cars, donations,
      maintenance costs, utilities,
      etc. but I doubt they see
      the additional perks, investment
      properties, and vacation costs
      that Klemp hides from them.

      After all, Klemp, as the Sole
      (legal) Member of Eckankar,
      isn't required, by law, to reveal
      much of anything.

      Prometheus

      From: morningstara
      >
      > Hi everyone,
      > I have visited these 'anti-Eck' sites for a while seeing what's out there. I'm
      still a member but never bought into the Mahanta stuff as the one and only in
      all the universes...the ONLY one. And NONE of the HI's I talk with think that
      either--in private. So--I think we all come to what we can 'digest' thru
      whatever experiences we have with this path. I have had AMAZING experiences,
      life saving ones. BUT none of those experiences except one had ANYTHING to do
      with the Master and dogma of Eckankar. As a member, I attributed these
      experiences to the Mahanta. UNTIL 2004 when I had an inner experience where I
      asked the LEM a question. His reply? "See you next lifetime, U ask too many
      questions." He turned and drove away (uphill) after sending me into a black PIT
      where I awoke SCREAMING for the ONE and ONLY time in my life.
      >
      > This is when I realized things are NOT as they appear and there is a darkness
      in Eckankar that I never wanted to look at. Devastation. It took me years to
      find my way out of that blackness.
      >
      > I heard Harold say at a seminar 2 years ago that "David Lane now quietly
      supports us." Well, I've emailed Mr. Lane so did asap to confirm--of course he
      said HUH? So either Harold knowingly LIED or is being spoon fed. My take is that
      the UPPER STAFF is corrupt to the core, power hungry and DARK now. Didn't used
      to be! Harold vainly tries to bend the Eck to 90 degrees, changing it to a
      'religion'--as in his dream before he became Master--but the eck ALWAYS flows
      straight, as it had for eons before him in HIS dream.

      He was WARNED and didn't get it I think! Manipulation of the Eck is BLACK MAGIC
      in a nutshell. Telling it where to go -we as Eckists are TOLD never to
      manipulate the Eck to do our
      bidding, but ISN'T THAT EXACTLY WHAT HAROLD IS DOING, since he actually 'saw'
      his mission as a bend?

      Perhaps that is why he has been so ill, so weak?

      Does he even realize what has happened? I don't think so. I think Harold is a
      loving,
      naive man who loves God and is in the grips of the dark black magic power hungry
      staff. Whatchatink?

      As for Africa, I saw a picture of the Eck temple theree with its roof caved in
      from poor construction a friend who visited took, tried to get Eckankar staff to
      SEE that is is a SCAM, and Many African Eckists are MIXING black magic with the
      HU etc to get what they want...he was rejected. Hmmm. (Africa brings in $?) I
      actually saw a doctored pic of an African temple where if you looked CLOSELY,
      the parking lot lights were actually tree trunks photoshopped. They were asking
      for temple funding! When I pointed it out in an answering email--NEVER got a
      reply! Hmmmmm
    • Janice Pfeiffer
      It is interesting to know what draws people in.  I think for me, I was at a point where I had explored so many kinds of spiritual concepts and had become
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 30, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        It is interesting to know what draws people in.  I think for me, I was at a point where I had explored so many kinds of spiritual concepts and had become disenchanted with all of them and I grew tired of looking.  And Christianity which I had been made aware o first of course, just didn't give the answers to life's greatest questions at all.  It can be uncomfortable when you get to the point that you can't relate to any particular spiritual path.  The feeling of aloneness was the biggest motivator to join the org.  In the early days I remember hoping very much that I had found my place and my people.  That is the reason I held on so long and kept trying to make sense of the lack of spiritual things I saw in the org.  I am glad to say that whereas before the org, I was uncomfortable with being different,  getting an up close look at a group which claimed to be the elite in spirituality and seeing the fakery, has caused me to get more comfortable with being me on my own.  I no longer feel the need to be part of something because I made a valiant attempt in the org and the whole thing got really ridiculous.  I got what I needed however.  Now I am okay with out any group except that being here in this group has shown me there are others like me in that respect who just can't buy the bull being dished out by the so called elite of spirituality. I think it may have been entirely different for me if I had read abut the org before coming into contact with it.  But even though I don't actively look for spiritual likeness any more from others, I have found that experiences have create more of feeling of connectivity to humanity in general with out needing to have absolute agreement.  The amazing part for me is that even though my org experience was negative because of it's people, I am easier and more accepting of others in general now because I am not desperately looking for self confirmation.  So I am grateful to the org for the growth I feel I got but not for the binding reasons they would have preferred.  I am more free than ever because I saw a true example of what it is like to be in a spiritually and emotionally controlling group who has no  purpose but to enrich the finances of it's leaders by enslaving people through brain washing to serve it.  I am grateful to the org for showing me the worst and the most conniving habits of man kind.  Now I am free from the fear of finding something worse.   It's like being able to say no to the devil I was taught to fear as a kid. 

        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 1:39 PM
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar and Black Magic (revised)
         
        Hello Moringstara and All,
        It always made me wonder
        how some people were suckered
        into Eckankar. All are pretty
        much NEW AGE types, but
        what else do they have in
        common?

        Of course the African chelas
        have a totally different take
        on this and are more superstitious
        and look to natural elements,
        signs, and remedies. They mix
        Eckankar with local superstitions,
        voo-doo, Black Magic and a
        hodge-podge of things to make
        their special elixir work for them.

        ECKists are very disenfranchised
        with their parents' religion because
        faith and belief were emphasized
        versus a Gnostic (esoteric mystical
        knowledge) experience. However,
        Eckists have come full circle. Klemp
        has returned them to their parents'
        religion and the need to have faith
        and belief. The promises haven't
        materialized. EKists can only imagine
        and pretend to a certain degree
        and for a limited time until they
        are forced to see the Truth. But
        even then it's difficult to get beyond
        the years of habitual delusion.

        What else could have suckered
        people into Eckankar?

        What types seek New Age Religions,
        what are the factors: gullibility;
        innocence; being too trusting;
        naivety; eagerness to expand
        awareness; an innate spiritual
        hunger; inexperience with religious
        beliefs; distrust of orthodox
        religions; association to metaphysics;
        contact with Eastern thought;
        curiosity about the spiritual;
        wholistic and natural or nature
        based thought and diet; a need
        to be non-conformists!

        It's fun to be different and somewhat
        private with your (inner) beliefs,
        until, you're forced (intimidated)
        to become missionaries (vahanas)
        and a member of a free sales staff.
        One sells and promotes Eckankar
        by leaving out important information
        because peoples' consciousness
        can't handle it! The Truth is that
        people are taken back, defensive,
        and even offended when suddenly
        shown the full view of the EK scam.

        But, Intros and Talks need to be
        done, and done well, in order to
        get you noticed and recommended
        for more Outer initiations these lead
        to a higher status with more work
        and responsibility and to a greater
        but imagined spiritual awareness.
        It's an Ego trap. It has nothing to
        do with inner spirituality. It's all
        an outer, subjective, and ego
        driven show taking place. It's
        a pyramid scheme except you're
        only left holding an empty bag.

        EK, also, fits well with the artsy-fartsy
        types and the rebels of society, but
        what about those business professionals
        and science or analytically minded
        ECKists? I always wondered why those
        with such a clever and knowledgable
        mind allowed themselves to be suckered
        by the Mahanta dribble.

        BTW, Morningstara, I'm sometimes
        in contact with David Lane and
        if Harold said that David supports
        Eckankar he did lie. David does
        support those involved with the
        'Sound Current' per se, as does
        Sant Mat which David is involved
        with, but he does Not support
        Klemp's/Twitchell's adulterated
        version of Sant Mat via the Mahanta
        scam. Thus, Lane doesn't support
        Eckankar since the 14th Initiate
        Mahanta and Inner Master belief/
        fantasy is the foundation of
        Eckankar's religious system.

        No! Klemp is Not loving or naive.
        He has no Empathy! Just read his
        books and look for it... it's missing!
        No, if Klemp loves God it's because
        he sees himself as God. HK's delusional,
        is mean-spirited, petty, and holds
        grudges. These are not the indicators
        of a 'spiritual' man nor of someone
        'advanced.' Plus, he's a chauvinist
        as was Paul and Darwin! Let the
        women do the heavy lifting and
        give the men the credit. Sure, throw
        out a few crumbs (7th, 8th and 9th
        initiations) but don't make anyone
        else an EK Master even if women
        can't become the LEM/Mahanta.
        Why's that? It's because Klemp wants
        to be far above the heads of anyone
        else in the org and enjoys being
        worshipped. Don't fool yourself
        into believing that Klemp isn't in
        charge.

        Klemp has the ability to hire
        and fire without Board approval.

        Klemp feigns humility by saying
        he's not to be worshipped while
        doing everything possible To Be
        Worshipped. This keeps ECKists
        off-balanced and confused as
        does his other double-speak
        and contradictory actions. It's
        all a part of playing-the-game,
        pretending (As If), and acting
        in a role expected of him.

        Klemp learned How To Play-The-
        Game (his own words) in order
        to trick the psychiatrist and be
        released early from the mental
        institution he was committed to
        back in the early '70s.

        The less contact with the public
        the better. This helps Klemp to
        hide behind the curtain or facade
        he has built. Why doesn't a
        'Modern Prophet' give prophesy?

        This fraud is, also, why Klemp
        doesn't promote Eckankar via
        a radio program... it's a double
        standard where he gets to be
        a recluse and 'write' his books,
        using other peoples stories and/
        or editorializing, while expecting
        EKists to do the dirty/hard work.

        The accolades and "awards" HK's
        books receive are from the same
        local organization that publishers
        pay to belong to. Klemp, also,
        paid a fee to be listed in the
        International Who's Who of
        Intellectuals, although, Klemp's
        I.Q., education, and intellectual
        achievements are subpar to
        that of any true intellectual.

        I'm still waiting to see when
        Klemp/ the ESC will share
        their financial information.
        Usually the local Satsangs
        will show their funds and
        expenditures but the ESC
        doesn't! As Below, So Above?
        No, but the ESC approves
        of the Satsang Societies
        and RESAs showing their
        funds while they don't!

        The RESAs seem to
        accept this generalized
        one dimensional view
        of ESC expenditures that
        Peter sometimes shares
        with them and the membership.

        Yet, the EK Board and
        the RESAs know nothing
        about payroll and salaries
        or of property, cash and
        stocks owned by the Klemp's
        or Peter Skelsky. The EK
        Board probably knows about
        business assets and certain
        expenditures, staff health
        care costs and retirement
        plans, rental cars, donations,
        maintenance costs, utilities,
        etc. but I doubt they see
        the additional perks, investment
        properties, and vacation costs
        that Klemp hides from them.

        After all, Klemp, as the Sole
        (legal) Member of Eckankar,
        isn't required, by law, to reveal
        much of anything.

        Prometheus

        From: morningstara
        >
        > Hi everyone,
        > I have visited these 'anti-Eck' sites for a while seeing what's out there. I'm
        still a member but never bought into the Mahanta stuff as the one and only in
        all the universes...the ONLY one. And NONE of the HI's I talk with think that
        either--in private. So--I think we all come to what we can 'digest' thru
        whatever experiences we have with this path. I have had AMAZING experiences,
        life saving ones. BUT none of those experiences except one had ANYTHING to do
        with the Master and dogma of Eckankar. As a member, I attributed these
        experiences to the Mahanta. UNTIL 2004 when I had an inner experience where I
        asked the LEM a question. His reply? "See you next lifetime, U ask too many
        questions." He turned and drove away (uphill) after sending me into a black PIT
        where I awoke SCREAMING for the ONE and ONLY time in my life.
        >
        > This is when I realized things are NOT as they appear and there is a darkness
        in Eckankar that I never wanted to look at. Devastation. It took me years to
        find my way out of that blackness.
        >
        > I heard Harold say at a seminar 2 years ago that "David Lane now quietly
        supports us." Well, I've emailed Mr. Lane so did asap to confirm--of course he
        said HUH? So either Harold knowingly LIED or is being spoon fed. My take is that
        the UPPER STAFF is corrupt to the core, power hungry and DARK now. Didn't used
        to be! Harold vainly tries to bend the Eck to 90 degrees, changing it to a
        'religion'--as in his dream before he became Master--but the eck ALWAYS flows
        straight, as it had for eons before him in HIS dream.

        He was WARNED and didn't get it I think! Manipulation of the Eck is BLACK MAGIC
        in a nutshell. Telling it where to go -we as Eckists are TOLD never to
        manipulate the Eck to do our
        bidding, but ISN'T THAT EXACTLY WHAT HAROLD IS DOING, since he actually 'saw'
        his mission as a bend?

        Perhaps that is why he has been so ill, so weak?

        Does he even realize what has happened? I don't think so. I think Harold is a
        loving,
        naive man who loves God and is in the grips of the dark black magic power hungry
        staff. Whatchatink?

        As for Africa, I saw a picture of the Eck temple theree with its roof caved in
        from poor construction a friend who visited took, tried to get Eckankar staff to
        SEE that is is a SCAM, and Many African Eckists are MIXING black magic with the
        HU etc to get what they want...he was rejected. Hmmm. (Africa brings in $?) I
        actually saw a doctored pic of an African temple where if you looked CLOSELY,
        the parking lot lights were actually tree trunks photoshopped. They were asking
        for temple funding! When I pointed it out in an answering email--NEVER got a
        reply! Hmmmmm

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