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Re: Eckankar Renews, Revitalizes, Revamps, Repeats, and Regurgitates

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  • Sharon
    Ha, I bet the new study program is the same old, same old - maybe they ve just rearranged the order in which they send them out again? When I first joined, I
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 24 10:02 AM
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      Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just rearranged the order in which they send them out again?

      When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were allowed to peek at them!

      Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post them in the files here and at eckankartruth.

      Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis - except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few non-eckists who've needed new ones.

      Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!! Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>

      Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO happy you woke up & got out!

      Think Snow, everyone!!

      Hugs,

      Sharon



      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello Janice and All,
      > Yes, Klemp states that:
      > "Eckankar is taking a vital
      > step to bring a new spiritual
      > opportunity to you, your
      > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
      > seekers around the world."
      >
      > The New ECK Study Program
      > (2013) is based upon a 1970
      > quote from PT's first Shariyat
      > and the borrowed dogma from
      > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
      > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
      > as well as the Book of Mormon,
      > et al.:
      >
      > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
      > Audible Life Stream. The time
      > is coming that will bring ECK
      > to the world as a universal
      > spiritual belief. Mankind will
      > accept it. ECK will serve all
      > races of people and all countries."
      >
      > Harold is "updating the presentation"
      > of the ECK discourses and the
      > ECK study program with a "greater
      > current" of the Light and Sound
      > of God. Really! I don't know how
      > he's doing it... more words(?) or
      > why he's waited so long but that's
      > the talk.
      >
      > Here's more from Klemp's business
      > partner and the President of Eckankar,
      > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
      > bodies are buried):
      >
      > "All available resources of time,
      > energy, creativity, and finances
      > are being put forth to support
      > Sri Harold's vision for the future
      > of the ECK teachings on earth."
      >
      > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
      >
      > "The costs are substantial, yet
      > the spiritual benefits to mankind
      > are beyond measure."
      >
      > That sound familiar too!
      >
      > I wonder if Peter and Harold
      > will supply a financial report
      > in order to show where all of
      > these "costs" are going? LOL!
      >
      > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
      > Eckankar has set an initial
      > fund-raising goal for 2013
      > of $3,000,000 to help support
      > this program.
      >
      > Peter continues:
      > "Will you lend your heart and
      > hands to this great effort? Your
      > gifts, in whatever amount, are
      > truly appreciated. It will take
      > each and every one of us to
      > make it happen. You are the
      > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
      > You are a Co-worker with the
      > Mahanta."
      >
      > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
      > because we were never "Co-workers"
      > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
      > We were always "Underlings" versus
      > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
      > no equality! You work "For" the higher
      > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
      > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
      > therefore, you are not peer to them.
      > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
      > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
      > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
      >
      > Here's more:
      > "Your gifts of love and service will
      > help many others find their way home
      > to God. I thank you from the bottom
      > of my heart for your help with this
      > great mission."
      >
      > From the bottom of your heart?
      > Can't you be more original than that?
      >
      > "PS If you want information on including
      > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
      > check the designated box on the donation
      > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
      >
      > Also, if you would like to make a donation
      > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
      > Donate to make a secure donation via the
      > Internet."
      >
      > "Learn to give, without ever
      > thinking of a reward. That's
      > how to find the treasures of
      > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
      >
      > Of course there are several problems
      > with the above quote. First, it's a
      > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
      > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
      > That's the way it's been set-up,
      > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
      > to follow the established rules.
      > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
      > which is promised and is dangled
      > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
      > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
      > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
      > It doesn't exist but if it did......
      > Klemp would be the last one to
      > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
      > designed for the masses will
      > never get you there (heaven) if
      > there is even such a "place" or
      > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
      > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Yes, more redundancy! After
      > almost twenty years of promising
      > "change" Klemp has finally
      > decided how he is going to
      > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
      > HK's not stepping down, but
      > there's always the hope that
      > he will... only to be dashed to
      > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
      > any case, here are some of the
      > incredible "program" changes
      > ready to take place to revitalize
      > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
      > and inherited religious scam:
      >
      > * New discourse format with audio
      > CD and dynamic workbook activities
      >
      > * Revitalized study program with
      > updated discourses in sequence for
      > chelas who have completed the first
      > seventeen years of ECK study
      >
      > * Family membership to include two
      > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
      > World
      >
      > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
      > be included with each membership
      > with children under 18
      >
      > * Easy membership donation options.
      > You may give as you are able. You can
      > now make monthly donations using a
      > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
      >
      > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
      > Whatever!!!
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Sharon and All, Glad you are doing well as are most of us who have left the cult and the lies, delusions, and codependency. Correct! These are the same
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 24 9:08 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello Sharon and All,
        Glad you are doing well as
        are most of us who have left
        the cult and the lies, delusions,
        and codependency.

        Correct! These are the same
        17 discourses, except, they've
        been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
        and include a workbook and
        a CD. Klemp can't come up
        with anything better worth
        saying which, obviously, proves
        he's not what he claims.

        And, if one reads comments
        and perspectives from the Dali
        Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
        masters you will see that Klemp
        does not even come close to
        these higher levels of intellect
        or of consciousness.

        This is a problem for ECKists
        since Klemp claims, as the
        Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
        Consciousness" on earth and
        of all other Planes.

        Therefore, ECKists have to put
        their blinders on and not read
        other authors. Except, most
        EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
        and enjoy his perspectives of
        god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
        express himself more cleverly
        and with more inspiration and
        spirituality than Rumi had? This
        is why EKists are in denial. They
        have no choice, unless, they begin
        to question why that huge elephant
        is standing in the corner of the room.

        Really, Klemp can't even expand
        upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
        initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
        since HK is incapable of being more
        than his and PT's redundant and
        borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
        hindsights don't expect much from
        these discourses. What ever happened
        to prophecy? HK claims to be a
        Modern Prophet but he never proves
        it. This is one more thing that EKists
        are in denial about.

        There's actually a long list of topics
        that each ECkist must come to deny
        and never question (out loud). After
        awhile one simply accepts more and
        more lies, distortions, promises,
        assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
        on "faith."

        The belief or faith is reinforced via
        self-hypnotic suggestions and from
        the talks and discourses which result
        in "special" dreams. This self-
        hypnosis via desires has EKists look
        for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
        Others experience what seems to
        be paranormal activities as proof
        of faith and see this as Higher
        Consciousness expectation and
        promise. Little do they understand
        that Klemp had nothing to do with
        their subjective awareness of their
        mental inner/outer surroundings.

        Prometheus

        Sharon wrote:
        Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
        rearranged the order in which they send them out again?

        When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
        forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
        the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
        "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
        material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
        warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
        allowed to peek at them!

        Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
        them in the files here and at eckankartruth.

        Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
        about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
        more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
        except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
        non-eckists who've needed new ones.

        Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
        Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>

        Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
        newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
        takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
        happy you woke up & got out!

        Think Snow, everyone!!

        Hugs,

        Sharon




        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello Janice and All,
        > Yes, Klemp states that:
        > "Eckankar is taking a vital
        > step to bring a new spiritual
        > opportunity to you, your
        > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
        > seekers around the world."
        >
        > The New ECK Study Program
        > (2013) is based upon a 1970
        > quote from PT's first Shariyat
        > and the borrowed dogma from
        > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
        > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
        > as well as the Book of Mormon,
        > et al.:
        >
        > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
        > Audible Life Stream. The time
        > is coming that will bring ECK
        > to the world as a universal
        > spiritual belief. Mankind will
        > accept it. ECK will serve all
        > races of people and all countries."
        >
        > Harold is "updating the presentation"
        > of the ECK discourses and the
        > ECK study program with a "greater
        > current" of the Light and Sound
        > of God. Really! I don't know how
        > he's doing it... more words(?) or
        > why he's waited so long but that's
        > the talk.
        >
        > Here's more from Klemp's business
        > partner and the President of Eckankar,
        > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
        > bodies are buried):
        >
        > "All available resources of time,
        > energy, creativity, and finances
        > are being put forth to support
        > Sri Harold's vision for the future
        > of the ECK teachings on earth."
        >
        > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
        >
        > "The costs are substantial, yet
        > the spiritual benefits to mankind
        > are beyond measure."
        >
        > That sound familiar too!
        >
        > I wonder if Peter and Harold
        > will supply a financial report
        > in order to show where all of
        > these "costs" are going? LOL!
        >
        > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
        > Eckankar has set an initial
        > fund-raising goal for 2013
        > of $3,000,000 to help support
        > this program.
        >
        > Peter continues:
        > "Will you lend your heart and
        > hands to this great effort? Your
        > gifts, in whatever amount, are
        > truly appreciated. It will take
        > each and every one of us to
        > make it happen. You are the
        > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
        > You are a Co-worker with the
        > Mahanta."
        >
        > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
        > because we were never "Co-workers"
        > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
        > We were always "Underlings" versus
        > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
        > no equality! You work "For" the higher
        > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
        > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
        > therefore, you are not peer to them.
        > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
        > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
        > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
        >
        > Here's more:
        > "Your gifts of love and service will
        > help many others find their way home
        > to God. I thank you from the bottom
        > of my heart for your help with this
        > great mission."
        >
        > From the bottom of your heart?
        > Can't you be more original than that?
        >
        > "PS If you want information on including
        > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
        > check the designated box on the donation
        > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
        >
        > Also, if you would like to make a donation
        > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
        > Donate to make a secure donation via the
        > Internet."
        >
        > "Learn to give, without ever
        > thinking of a reward. That's
        > how to find the treasures of
        > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
        >
        > Of course there are several problems
        > with the above quote. First, it's a
        > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
        > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
        > That's the way it's been set-up,
        > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
        > to follow the established rules.
        > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
        > which is promised and is dangled
        > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
        > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
        > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
        > It doesn't exist but if it did......
        > Klemp would be the last one to
        > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
        > designed for the masses will
        > never get you there (heaven) if
        > there is even such a "place" or
        > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
        > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
        trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
        the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
        suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
        >
        > prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Yes, more redundancy! After
        > almost twenty years of promising
        > "change" Klemp has finally
        > decided how he is going to
        > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
        > HK's not stepping down, but
        > there's always the hope that
        > he will... only to be dashed to
        > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
        > any case, here are some of the
        > incredible "program" changes
        > ready to take place to revitalize
        > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
        > and inherited religious scam:
        >
        > * New discourse format with audio
        > CD and dynamic workbook activities
        >
        > * Revitalized study program with
        > updated discourses in sequence for
        > chelas who have completed the first
        > seventeen years of ECK study
        >
        > * Family membership to include two
        > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
        > World
        >
        > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
        > be included with each membership
        > with children under 18
        >
        > * Easy membership donation options.
        > You may give as you are able. You can
        > now make monthly donations using a
        > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
        >
        > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
        > Whatever!!!
        >
        > Prometheus
      • noneckchains
        To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 25 10:32 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is considered some kind of golden wisdom. The eckist may actually believe that he is being a shifty Godman that is showing proof of no ego or some other absurd rationalization.

          Non ;)

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Sharon and All,
          > Glad you are doing well as
          > are most of us who have left
          > the cult and the lies, delusions,
          > and codependency.
          >
          > Correct! These are the same
          > 17 discourses, except, they've
          > been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
          > and include a workbook and
          > a CD. Klemp can't come up
          > with anything better worth
          > saying which, obviously, proves
          > he's not what he claims.
          >
          > And, if one reads comments
          > and perspectives from the Dali
          > Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
          > masters you will see that Klemp
          > does not even come close to
          > these higher levels of intellect
          > or of consciousness.
          >
          > This is a problem for ECKists
          > since Klemp claims, as the
          > Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
          > Consciousness" on earth and
          > of all other Planes.
          >
          > Therefore, ECKists have to put
          > their blinders on and not read
          > other authors. Except, most
          > EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
          > and enjoy his perspectives of
          > god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
          > express himself more cleverly
          > and with more inspiration and
          > spirituality than Rumi had? This
          > is why EKists are in denial. They
          > have no choice, unless, they begin
          > to question why that huge elephant
          > is standing in the corner of the room.
          >
          > Really, Klemp can't even expand
          > upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
          > initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
          > since HK is incapable of being more
          > than his and PT's redundant and
          > borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
          > hindsights don't expect much from
          > these discourses. What ever happened
          > to prophecy? HK claims to be a
          > Modern Prophet but he never proves
          > it. This is one more thing that EKists
          > are in denial about.
          >
          > There's actually a long list of topics
          > that each ECkist must come to deny
          > and never question (out loud). After
          > awhile one simply accepts more and
          > more lies, distortions, promises,
          > assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
          > on "faith."
          >
          > The belief or faith is reinforced via
          > self-hypnotic suggestions and from
          > the talks and discourses which result
          > in "special" dreams. This self-
          > hypnosis via desires has EKists look
          > for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
          > Others experience what seems to
          > be paranormal activities as proof
          > of faith and see this as Higher
          > Consciousness expectation and
          > promise. Little do they understand
          > that Klemp had nothing to do with
          > their subjective awareness of their
          > mental inner/outer surroundings.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > Sharon wrote:
          > Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
          > rearranged the order in which they send them out again?
          >
          > When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
          > forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
          > the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
          > "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
          > material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
          > warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
          > allowed to peek at them!
          >
          > Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
          > them in the files here and at eckankartruth.
          >
          > Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
          > about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
          > more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
          > except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
          > non-eckists who've needed new ones.
          >
          > Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
          > Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>
          >
          > Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
          > newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
          > takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
          > happy you woke up & got out!
          >
          > Think Snow, everyone!!
          >
          > Hugs,
          >
          > Sharon
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello Janice and All,
          > > Yes, Klemp states that:
          > > "Eckankar is taking a vital
          > > step to bring a new spiritual
          > > opportunity to you, your
          > > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
          > > seekers around the world."
          > >
          > > The New ECK Study Program
          > > (2013) is based upon a 1970
          > > quote from PT's first Shariyat
          > > and the borrowed dogma from
          > > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
          > > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
          > > as well as the Book of Mormon,
          > > et al.:
          > >
          > > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
          > > Audible Life Stream. The time
          > > is coming that will bring ECK
          > > to the world as a universal
          > > spiritual belief. Mankind will
          > > accept it. ECK will serve all
          > > races of people and all countries."
          > >
          > > Harold is "updating the presentation"
          > > of the ECK discourses and the
          > > ECK study program with a "greater
          > > current" of the Light and Sound
          > > of God. Really! I don't know how
          > > he's doing it... more words(?) or
          > > why he's waited so long but that's
          > > the talk.
          > >
          > > Here's more from Klemp's business
          > > partner and the President of Eckankar,
          > > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
          > > bodies are buried):
          > >
          > > "All available resources of time,
          > > energy, creativity, and finances
          > > are being put forth to support
          > > Sri Harold's vision for the future
          > > of the ECK teachings on earth."
          > >
          > > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
          > >
          > > "The costs are substantial, yet
          > > the spiritual benefits to mankind
          > > are beyond measure."
          > >
          > > That sound familiar too!
          > >
          > > I wonder if Peter and Harold
          > > will supply a financial report
          > > in order to show where all of
          > > these "costs" are going? LOL!
          > >
          > > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
          > > Eckankar has set an initial
          > > fund-raising goal for 2013
          > > of $3,000,000 to help support
          > > this program.
          > >
          > > Peter continues:
          > > "Will you lend your heart and
          > > hands to this great effort? Your
          > > gifts, in whatever amount, are
          > > truly appreciated. It will take
          > > each and every one of us to
          > > make it happen. You are the
          > > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
          > > You are a Co-worker with the
          > > Mahanta."
          > >
          > > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
          > > because we were never "Co-workers"
          > > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
          > > We were always "Underlings" versus
          > > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
          > > no equality! You work "For" the higher
          > > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
          > > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
          > > therefore, you are not peer to them.
          > > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
          > > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
          > > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
          > >
          > > Here's more:
          > > "Your gifts of love and service will
          > > help many others find their way home
          > > to God. I thank you from the bottom
          > > of my heart for your help with this
          > > great mission."
          > >
          > > From the bottom of your heart?
          > > Can't you be more original than that?
          > >
          > > "PS If you want information on including
          > > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
          > > check the designated box on the donation
          > > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
          > >
          > > Also, if you would like to make a donation
          > > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
          > > Donate to make a secure donation via the
          > > Internet."
          > >
          > > "Learn to give, without ever
          > > thinking of a reward. That's
          > > how to find the treasures of
          > > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
          > >
          > > Of course there are several problems
          > > with the above quote. First, it's a
          > > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
          > > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
          > > That's the way it's been set-up,
          > > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
          > > to follow the established rules.
          > > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
          > > which is promised and is dangled
          > > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
          > > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
          > > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
          > > It doesn't exist but if it did......
          > > Klemp would be the last one to
          > > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
          > > designed for the masses will
          > > never get you there (heaven) if
          > > there is even such a "place" or
          > > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          > >
          > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
          > > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
          > trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
          > the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
          > suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
          > >
          > > prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > Yes, more redundancy! After
          > > almost twenty years of promising
          > > "change" Klemp has finally
          > > decided how he is going to
          > > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
          > > HK's not stepping down, but
          > > there's always the hope that
          > > he will... only to be dashed to
          > > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
          > > any case, here are some of the
          > > incredible "program" changes
          > > ready to take place to revitalize
          > > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
          > > and inherited religious scam:
          > >
          > > * New discourse format with audio
          > > CD and dynamic workbook activities
          > >
          > > * Revitalized study program with
          > > updated discourses in sequence for
          > > chelas who have completed the first
          > > seventeen years of ECK study
          > >
          > > * Family membership to include two
          > > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
          > > World
          > >
          > > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
          > > be included with each membership
          > > with children under 18
          > >
          > > * Easy membership donation options.
          > > You may give as you are able. You can
          > > now make monthly donations using a
          > > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
          > >
          > > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
          > > Whatever!!!
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          >
        • Janice Pfeiffer
          While I was in the org, whenever I heard HK speak, I felt like I had to slow down my hearing. my thinking and my feelings because he was so incredibly slow,
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 26 7:44 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            While I was in the org, whenever I heard HK speak, I felt like I had to slow down my hearing. my thinking and my feelings because he was so incredibly slow, bland and unimaginative and every fiber of my being was aware of it.  I made continued pitiful attempts to say that my attitude was to blame and I needed to learn respect and appreciation for the LEM.  In fact, I beat myself up a lot because try though I might, I couldn't get past those ideas about HKs deficiencies.  I didn't talk about him at all while I tried to reconcile myself about the LEM. There was some pretty good stuff in all the books I read and so I just tried to stop myself from thinking about the obvious idiot who no one would dare call an idiot and who was touted as the most developed, the most powerful and the most remarkable individual living in physical form.  Today, I am proud to say that I have forgotten all about that ridiculous self denial and I am pleased to be able to say that I believe HK to border on being mentally challenged and most definitely, I feel his talks show blatant lack of inspiration and creativity.  I say these things with out malice but state I do have a need to express what I tried to deny as a good eckist.  I just couldn't get to the point of total disillusion as other good eckist and I could not get mesmerized by the power that this man was touted as having since it wasn't evidenced by his thoughts, words or deeds.   In fact, he showed blatant immaturity and so did a lot of the H.Is..  So I will simple say it now like I SEE it is.  Him who look and act like idiot, most likely is idiot. 

            From: noneckchains <eckchains@...>
            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 1:32 AM
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar Renews, Revitalizes, Revamps, Repeats, and Regurgitates
             
            To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is considered some kind of golden wisdom. The eckist may actually believe that he is being a shifty Godman that is showing proof of no ego or some other absurd rationalization.

            Non ;)

            --- In mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Sharon and All,
            > Glad you are doing well as
            > are most of us who have left
            > the cult and the lies, delusions,
            > and codependency.
            >
            > Correct! These are the same
            > 17 discourses, except, they've
            > been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
            > and include a workbook and
            > a CD. Klemp can't come up
            > with anything better worth
            > saying which, obviously, proves
            > he's not what he claims.
            >
            > And, if one reads comments
            > and perspectives from the Dali
            > Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
            > masters you will see that Klemp
            > does not even come close to
            > these higher levels of intellect
            > or of consciousness.
            >
            > This is a problem for ECKists
            > since Klemp claims, as the
            > Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
            > Consciousness" on earth and
            > of all other Planes.
            >
            > Therefore, ECKists have to put
            > their blinders on and not read
            > other authors. Except, most
            > EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
            > and enjoy his perspectives of
            > god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
            > express himself more cleverly
            > and with more inspiration and
            > spirituality than Rumi had? This
            > is why EKists are in denial. They
            > have no choice, unless, they begin
            > to question why that huge elephant
            > is standing in the corner of the room.
            >
            > Really, Klemp can't even expand
            > upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
            > initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
            > since HK is incapable of being more
            > than his and PT's redundant and
            > borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
            > hindsights don't expect much from
            > these discourses. What ever happened
            > to prophecy? HK claims to be a
            > Modern Prophet but he never proves
            > it. This is one more thing that EKists
            > are in denial about.
            >
            > There's actually a long list of topics
            > that each ECkist must come to deny
            > and never question (out loud). After
            > awhile one simply accepts more and
            > more lies, distortions, promises,
            > assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
            > on "faith."
            >
            > The belief or faith is reinforced via
            > self-hypnotic suggestions and from
            > the talks and discourses which result
            > in "special" dreams. This self-
            > hypnosis via desires has EKists look
            > for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
            > Others experience what seems to
            > be paranormal activities as proof
            > of faith and see this as Higher
            > Consciousness expectation and
            > promise. Little do they understand
            > that Klemp had nothing to do with
            > their subjective awareness of their
            > mental inner/outer surroundings.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > Sharon wrote:
            > Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
            > rearranged the order in which they send them out again?
            >
            > When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
            > forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
            > the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
            > "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
            > material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
            > warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
            > allowed to peek at them!
            >
            > Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
            > them in the files here and at eckankartruth.
            >
            > Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
            > about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
            > more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
            > except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
            > non-eckists who've needed new ones.
            >
            > Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
            > Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>
            >
            > Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
            > newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
            > takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
            > happy you woke up & got out!
            >
            > Think Snow, everyone!!
            >
            > Hugs,
            >
            > Sharon
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello Janice and All,
            > > Yes, Klemp states that:
            > > "Eckankar is taking a vital
            > > step to bring a new spiritual
            > > opportunity to you, your
            > > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
            > > seekers around the world."
            > >
            > > The New ECK Study Program
            > > (2013) is based upon a 1970
            > > quote from PT's first Shariyat
            > > and the borrowed dogma from
            > > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
            > > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
            > > as well as the Book of Mormon,
            > > et al.:
            > >
            > > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
            > > Audible Life Stream. The time
            > > is coming that will bring ECK
            > > to the world as a universal
            > > spiritual belief. Mankind will
            > > accept it. ECK will serve all
            > > races of people and all countries."
            > >
            > > Harold is "updating the presentation"
            > > of the ECK discourses and the
            > > ECK study program with a "greater
            > > current" of the Light and Sound
            > > of God. Really! I don't know how
            > > he's doing it... more words(?) or
            > > why he's waited so long but that's
            > > the talk.
            > >
            > > Here's more from Klemp's business
            > > partner and the President of Eckankar,
            > > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
            > > bodies are buried):
            > >
            > > "All available resources of time,
            > > energy, creativity, and finances
            > > are being put forth to support
            > > Sri Harold's vision for the future
            > > of the ECK teachings on earth."
            > >
            > > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
            > >
            > > "The costs are substantial, yet
            > > the spiritual benefits to mankind
            > > are beyond measure."
            > >
            > > That sound familiar too!
            > >
            > > I wonder if Peter and Harold
            > > will supply a financial report
            > > in order to show where all of
            > > these "costs" are going? LOL!
            > >
            > > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
            > > Eckankar has set an initial
            > > fund-raising goal for 2013
            > > of $3,000,000 to help support
            > > this program.
            > >
            > > Peter continues:
            > > "Will you lend your heart and
            > > hands to this great effort? Your
            > > gifts, in whatever amount, are
            > > truly appreciated. It will take
            > > each and every one of us to
            > > make it happen. You are the
            > > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
            > > You are a Co-worker with the
            > > Mahanta."
            > >
            > > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
            > > because we were never "Co-workers"
            > > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
            > > We were always "Underlings" versus
            > > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
            > > no equality! You work "For" the higher
            > > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
            > > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
            > > therefore, you are not peer to them.
            > > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
            > > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
            > > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
            > >
            > > Here's more:
            > > "Your gifts of love and service will
            > > help many others find their way home
            > > to God. I thank you from the bottom
            > > of my heart for your help with this
            > > great mission."
            > >
            > > From the bottom of your heart?
            > > Can't you be more original than that?
            > >
            > > "PS If you want information on including
            > > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
            > > check the designated box on the donation
            > > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
            > >
            > > Also, if you would like to make a donation
            > > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
            > > Donate to make a secure donation via the
            > > Internet."
            > >
            > > "Learn to give, without ever
            > > thinking of a reward. That's
            > > how to find the treasures of
            > > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
            > >
            > > Of course there are several problems
            > > with the above quote. First, it's a
            > > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
            > > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
            > > That's the way it's been set-up,
            > > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
            > > to follow the established rules.
            > > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
            > > which is promised and is dangled
            > > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
            > > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
            > > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
            > > It doesn't exist but if it did......
            > > Klemp would be the last one to
            > > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
            > > designed for the masses will
            > > never get you there (heaven) if
            > > there is even such a "place" or
            > > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            > >
            > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
            > > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
            > trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
            > the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
            > suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
            > >
            > > prometheus wrote:
            > >
            > > Yes, more redundancy! After
            > > almost twenty years of promising
            > > "change" Klemp has finally
            > > decided how he is going to
            > > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
            > > HK's not stepping down, but
            > > there's always the hope that
            > > he will... only to be dashed to
            > > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
            > > any case, here are some of the
            > > incredible "program" changes
            > > ready to take place to revitalize
            > > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
            > > and inherited religious scam:
            > >
            > > * New discourse format with audio
            > > CD and dynamic workbook activities
            > >
            > > * Revitalized study program with
            > > updated discourses in sequence for
            > > chelas who have completed the first
            > > seventeen years of ECK study
            > >
            > > * Family membership to include two
            > > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
            > > World
            > >
            > > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
            > > be included with each membership
            > > with children under 18
            > >
            > > * Easy membership donation options.
            > > You may give as you are able. You can
            > > now make monthly donations using a
            > > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
            > >
            > > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
            > > Whatever!!!
            > >
            > > Prometheus
            >

          • prometheus_973
            Hello Janice, Thanks for sharing your insights. I can relate to what you ve experienced. I always tried, like others, to buy into the whole spiel, about the
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 27 10:58 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Hello Janice,
              Thanks for sharing your
              insights. I can relate to
              what you've experienced.

              I always tried, like others,
              to buy into the whole spiel,
              about the Mahanta, but there
              were just too many holes in
              the logic. I really tried and
              at one time thought it was
              me who was the problem.

              However, I was an observer
              and I looked and listened
              closely to what the H.I.s
              were doing and saying
              (behind closed doors too).
              It was schizophrenic and
              hypocritical at best. Still,
              they were 6ths and 7ths.
              Why was that? To violate
              the Four Zoas and yet the
              Mahanta knew nothing
              about it and would promote
              them! The whole goal was
              that next initiation, more
              and more were needed
              to reach that ultimate goal.

              Eckankar became a second
              job... in sales. And to be a
              good salesman you have to
              believe in the product.... or
              at least make it sound like
              you do. I could talk the talk
              and I had plenty of phenomenal
              experiences to walk the walk.

              However, the real problem
              was not sounding like every
              one else in a New Age religion
              or philosophy. One's described
              "spiritual benefits" sounded
              like every other religious
              testimonial. This is why many
              ECKists don't like reading
              non-approved books, although,
              many do. Most EKists don't
              want to clutter their minds
              with mental complexities.
              Thus, simple minded books
              on Animal Angels fulfills
              their non-discourse needs.

              Many H.I.s don't really buy
              into Klemp's Guidelines or
              his (and Twitchell's) exaggerated
              description of the Mahanta's
              abilities. After all, shouldn't
              some of that "All Knowingness"
              and Prophecy carryover into
              the Physical? Klemp is a low
              scale pretender who can only
              get away with his act when
              using it on those who have
              already bought and drank
              the kool-aid. They have
              nothing else except for
              Eckankar, their friends,
              their hopes, everything
              is illusion, especially, those
              initiations. Thus, Eckankar
              and it's dogma, ECK Masters,
              etc. is all fictional.

              I wonder how EKists justify
              having a Garden of Eden
              (see Polarians) with Adom
              and Ede... another letter
              switch around, addition
              and omission used by PT.
              ECKists have laughed at
              Christians for believing
              in a Garden of Eden when,
              if they'd read and pay attention,
              would see that Eckankar had
              one as well.... the same one!

              Prometheus







              Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
              While I was in the org, whenever I heard HK speak, I felt like I had to slow down my hearing. my thinking and my feelings because he was so incredibly slow, bland and unimaginative and every fiber of my being was aware of it. I made continued pitiful attempts to say that my attitude was to blame and I needed to learn respect and appreciation for the LEM. In fact, I beat myself up a lot because try though I might, I couldn't get past those ideas about HKs deficiencies. I didn't talk about him at all while I tried to reconcile myself about the LEM. There was some pretty good stuff in all the books I read and so I just tried to stop myself from thinking about the obvious idiot who no one would dare call an idiot and who was touted as the most developed, the most powerful and the most remarkable individual living in physical form. Today, I am proud to say that I have forgotten all about that ridiculous self denial and I am pleased to be able to say that I believe HK to border on being mentally challenged and most definitely, I feel his talks show blatant lack of inspiration and creativity. I say these things with out malice but state I do have a need to express what I tried to deny as a good eckist. I just couldn't get to the point of total disillusion as other good eckist and I could not get mesmerized by the power that this man was touted as having since it wasn't evidenced by his thoughts, words or deeds. In fact, he showed blatant immaturity and so did a lot of the H.Is.. So I will simple say it now like I SEE it is. Him who look and act like idiot, most likely is idiot.

              eckchains wrote:


              To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is considered some kind of golden wisdom. The eckist may actually believe that he is being a shifty Godman that is showing proof of no ego or some other absurd rationalization.

              Non ;)

              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Sharon and All,
              > Glad you are doing well as
              > are most of us who have left
              > the cult and the lies, delusions,
              > and codependency.
              >
              > Correct! These are the same
              > 17 discourses, except, they've
              > been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
              > and include a workbook and
              > a CD. Klemp can't come up
              > with anything better worth
              > saying which, obviously, proves
              > he's not what he claims.
              >
              > And, if one reads comments
              > and perspectives from the Dali
              > Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
              > masters you will see that Klemp
              > does not even come close to
              > these higher levels of intellect
              > or of consciousness.
              >
              > This is a problem for ECKists
              > since Klemp claims, as the
              > Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
              > Consciousness" on earth and
              > of all other Planes.
              >
              > Therefore, ECKists have to put
              > their blinders on and not read
              > other authors. Except, most
              > EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
              > and enjoy his perspectives of
              > god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
              > express himself more cleverly
              > and with more inspiration and
              > spirituality than Rumi had? This
              > is why EKists are in denial. They
              > have no choice, unless, they begin
              > to question why that huge elephant
              > is standing in the corner of the room.
              >
              > Really, Klemp can't even expand
              > upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
              > initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
              > since HK is incapable of being more
              > than his and PT's redundant and
              > borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
              > hindsights don't expect much from
              > these discourses. What ever happened
              > to prophecy? HK claims to be a
              > Modern Prophet but he never proves
              > it. This is one more thing that EKists
              > are in denial about.
              >
              > There's actually a long list of topics
              > that each ECkist must come to deny
              > and never question (out loud). After
              > awhile one simply accepts more and
              > more lies, distortions, promises,
              > assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
              > on "faith."
              >
              > The belief or faith is reinforced via
              > self-hypnotic suggestions and from
              > the talks and discourses which result
              > in "special" dreams. This self-
              > hypnosis via desires has EKists look
              > for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
              > Others experience what seems to
              > be paranormal activities as proof
              > of faith and see this as Higher
              > Consciousness expectation and
              > promise. Little do they understand
              > that Klemp had nothing to do with
              > their subjective awareness of their
              > mental inner/outer surroundings.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > Sharon wrote:
              > Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
              > rearranged the order in which they send them out again?
              >
              > When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
              > forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
              > the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
              > "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
              > material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
              > warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
              > allowed to peek at them!
              >
              > Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
              > them in the files here and at eckankartruth.
              >
              > Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
              > about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
              > more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
              > except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
              > non-eckists who've needed new ones.
              >
              > Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
              > Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>
              >
              > Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
              > newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
              > takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
              > happy you woke up & got out!
              >
              > Think Snow, everyone!!
              >
              > Hugs,
              >
              > Sharon
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Janice and All,
              > > Yes, Klemp states that:
              > > "Eckankar is taking a vital
              > > step to bring a new spiritual
              > > opportunity to you, your
              > > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
              > > seekers around the world."
              > >
              > > The New ECK Study Program
              > > (2013) is based upon a 1970
              > > quote from PT's first Shariyat
              > > and the borrowed dogma from
              > > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
              > > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
              > > as well as the Book of Mormon,
              > > et al.:
              > >
              > > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
              > > Audible Life Stream. The time
              > > is coming that will bring ECK
              > > to the world as a universal
              > > spiritual belief. Mankind will
              > > accept it. ECK will serve all
              > > races of people and all countries."
              > >
              > > Harold is "updating the presentation"
              > > of the ECK discourses and the
              > > ECK study program with a "greater
              > > current" of the Light and Sound
              > > of God. Really! I don't know how
              > > he's doing it... more words(?) or
              > > why he's waited so long but that's
              > > the talk.
              > >
              > > Here's more from Klemp's business
              > > partner and the President of Eckankar,
              > > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
              > > bodies are buried):
              > >
              > > "All available resources of time,
              > > energy, creativity, and finances
              > > are being put forth to support
              > > Sri Harold's vision for the future
              > > of the ECK teachings on earth."
              > >
              > > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
              > >
              > > "The costs are substantial, yet
              > > the spiritual benefits to mankind
              > > are beyond measure."
              > >
              > > That sound familiar too!
              > >
              > > I wonder if Peter and Harold
              > > will supply a financial report
              > > in order to show where all of
              > > these "costs" are going? LOL!
              > >
              > > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
              > > Eckankar has set an initial
              > > fund-raising goal for 2013
              > > of $3,000,000 to help support
              > > this program.
              > >
              > > Peter continues:
              > > "Will you lend your heart and
              > > hands to this great effort? Your
              > > gifts, in whatever amount, are
              > > truly appreciated. It will take
              > > each and every one of us to
              > > make it happen. You are the
              > > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
              > > You are a Co-worker with the
              > > Mahanta."
              > >
              > > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
              > > because we were never "Co-workers"
              > > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
              > > We were always "Underlings" versus
              > > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
              > > no equality! You work "For" the higher
              > > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
              > > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
              > > therefore, you are not peer to them.
              > > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
              > > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
              > > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
              > >
              > > Here's more:
              > > "Your gifts of love and service will
              > > help many others find their way home
              > > to God. I thank you from the bottom
              > > of my heart for your help with this
              > > great mission."
              > >
              > > From the bottom of your heart?
              > > Can't you be more original than that?
              > >
              > > "PS If you want information on including
              > > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
              > > check the designated box on the donation
              > > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
              > >
              > > Also, if you would like to make a donation
              > > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
              > > Donate to make a secure donation via the
              > > Internet."
              > >
              > > "Learn to give, without ever
              > > thinking of a reward. That's
              > > how to find the treasures of
              > > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
              > >
              > > Of course there are several problems
              > > with the above quote. First, it's a
              > > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
              > > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
              > > That's the way it's been set-up,
              > > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
              > > to follow the established rules.
              > > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
              > > which is promised and is dangled
              > > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
              > > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
              > > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
              > > It doesn't exist but if it did......
              > > Klemp would be the last one to
              > > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
              > > designed for the masses will
              > > never get you there (heaven) if
              > > there is even such a "place" or
              > > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
              > > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
              > trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
              > the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
              > suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
              > >
              > > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Yes, more redundancy! After
              > > almost twenty years of promising
              > > "change" Klemp has finally
              > > decided how he is going to
              > > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
              > > HK's not stepping down, but
              > > there's always the hope that
              > > he will... only to be dashed to
              > > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
              > > any case, here are some of the
              > > incredible "program" changes
              > > ready to take place to revitalize
              > > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
              > > and inherited religious scam:
              > >
              > > * New discourse format with audio
              > > CD and dynamic workbook activities
              > >
              > > * Revitalized study program with
              > > updated discourses in sequence for
              > > chelas who have completed the first
              > > seventeen years of ECK study
              > >
              > > * Family membership to include two
              > > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
              > > World
              > >
              > > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
              > > be included with each membership
              > > with children under 18
              > >
              > > * Easy membership donation options.
              > > You may give as you are able. You can
              > > now make monthly donations using a
              > > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
              > >
              > > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
              > > Whatever!!!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
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