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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Eckankar Renews, Revitalizes, Revamps, Repeats, and Regurgitates

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  • Janice Pfeiffer
    Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 22, 2013
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      Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more suckers.  Hey, somebody has got to pay!

      From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 11:29 PM
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Eckankar Renews, Revitalizes, Revamps, Repeats, and Regurgitates
       
      Yes, more redundancy! After
      almost twenty years of promising
      "change" Klemp has finally
      decided how he is going to
      accomplish this. Unfortunately,
      HK's not stepping down, but
      there's always the hope that
      he will... only to be dashed to
      pieces after every Oct. 22. In
      any case, here are some of the
      incredible "program" changes
      ready to take place to revitalize
      a dying, stagnant, insignificant
      and inherited religious scam:

      * New discourse format with audio
      CD and dynamic workbook activities

      * Revitalized study program with
      updated discourses in sequence for
      chelas who have completed the first
      seventeen years of ECK study

      * Family membership to include two
      discourses and two copies of the Mystic
      World

      * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
      be included with each membership
      with children under 18

      * Easy membership donation options.
      You may give as you are able. You can
      now make monthly donations using a
      credit card in the amount of your choosing.

      See! What a change! What a revitalization!
      Whatever!!!

      Prometheus

    • prometheus_973
      Hello Janice and All, Yes, Klemp states that: Eckankar is taking a vital step to bring a new spiritual opportunity to you, your fellow Eckists, and spiritual
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 23, 2013
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        Hello Janice and All,
        Yes, Klemp states that:
        "Eckankar is taking a vital
        step to bring a new spiritual
        opportunity to you, your
        fellow Eckists, and spiritual
        seekers around the world."

        The New ECK Study Program
        (2013) is based upon a 1970
        quote from PT's first Shariyat
        and the borrowed dogma from
        Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
        from the Judeo-Christian Bible
        as well as the Book of Mormon,
        et al.:

        "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
        Audible Life Stream. The time
        is coming that will bring ECK
        to the world as a universal
        spiritual belief. Mankind will
        accept it. ECK will serve all
        races of people and all countries."

        Harold is "updating the presentation"
        of the ECK discourses and the
        ECK study program with a "greater
        current" of the Light and Sound
        of God. Really! I don't know how
        he's doing it... more words(?) or
        why he's waited so long but that's
        the talk.

        Here's more from Klemp's business
        partner and the President of Eckankar,
        Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
        bodies are buried):

        "All available resources of time,
        energy, creativity, and finances
        are being put forth to support
        Sri Harold's vision for the future
        of the ECK teachings on earth."

        Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.

        "The costs are substantial, yet
        the spiritual benefits to mankind
        are beyond measure."

        That sound familiar too!

        I wonder if Peter and Harold
        will supply a financial report
        in order to show where all of
        these "costs" are going? LOL!

        ECK Mission Fund Goal -
        Eckankar has set an initial
        fund-raising goal for 2013
        of $3,000,000 to help support
        this program.

        Peter continues:
        "Will you lend your heart and
        hands to this great effort? Your
        gifts, in whatever amount, are
        truly appreciated. It will take
        each and every one of us to
        make it happen. You are the
        heart and soul of the ECK mission.
        You are a Co-worker with the
        Mahanta."

        See, now we all know that's Bullshit
        because we were never "Co-workers"
        "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
        We were always "Underlings" versus
        Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
        no equality! You work "For" the higher
        ups and not "with" the higher ups.
        You are evaluated by the higher ups,
        therefore, you are not peer to them.
        There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
        and of being a "Co-worker." It's
        double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.

        Here's more:
        "Your gifts of love and service will
        help many others find their way home
        to God. I thank you from the bottom
        of my heart for your help with this
        great mission."

        From the bottom of your heart?
        Can't you be more original than that?

        "PS If you want information on including
        Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
        check the designated box on the donation
        form and return it in the enclosed envelope.

        Also, if you would like to make a donation
        via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
        Donate to make a secure donation via the
        Internet."

        "Learn to give, without ever
        thinking of a reward. That's
        how to find the treasures of
        heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul

        Of course there are several problems
        with the above quote. First, it's a
        lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
        owed rewards via outer Initiations.
        That's the way it's been set-up,
        except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
        to follow the established rules.
        And, let's talk about this "heaven"
        which is promised and is dangled
        like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
        Define this "heaven?" Where or what
        is it? What "level?" It's just words!
        It doesn't exist but if it did......
        Klemp would be the last one to
        know! Plus, Religious Dogma
        designed for the masses will
        never get you there (heaven) if
        there is even such a "place" or
        state. Isn't this obvious by now?!

        Prometheus

        Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
        Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!

        prometheus wrote:

        Yes, more redundancy! After
        almost twenty years of promising
        "change" Klemp has finally
        decided how he is going to
        accomplish this. Unfortunately,
        HK's not stepping down, but
        there's always the hope that
        he will... only to be dashed to
        pieces after every Oct. 22. In
        any case, here are some of the
        incredible "program" changes
        ready to take place to revitalize
        a dying, stagnant, insignificant
        and inherited religious scam:

        * New discourse format with audio
        CD and dynamic workbook activities

        * Revitalized study program with
        updated discourses in sequence for
        chelas who have completed the first
        seventeen years of ECK study

        * Family membership to include two
        discourses and two copies of the Mystic
        World

        * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
        be included with each membership
        with children under 18

        * Easy membership donation options.
        You may give as you are able. You can
        now make monthly donations using a
        credit card in the amount of your choosing.

        See! What a change! What a revitalization!
        Whatever!!!

        Prometheus
      • Sharon
        Ha, I bet the new study program is the same old, same old - maybe they ve just rearranged the order in which they send them out again? When I first joined, I
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 24, 2013
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          Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just rearranged the order in which they send them out again?

          When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were allowed to peek at them!

          Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post them in the files here and at eckankartruth.

          Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis - except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few non-eckists who've needed new ones.

          Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!! Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>

          Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO happy you woke up & got out!

          Think Snow, everyone!!

          Hugs,

          Sharon



          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello Janice and All,
          > Yes, Klemp states that:
          > "Eckankar is taking a vital
          > step to bring a new spiritual
          > opportunity to you, your
          > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
          > seekers around the world."
          >
          > The New ECK Study Program
          > (2013) is based upon a 1970
          > quote from PT's first Shariyat
          > and the borrowed dogma from
          > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
          > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
          > as well as the Book of Mormon,
          > et al.:
          >
          > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
          > Audible Life Stream. The time
          > is coming that will bring ECK
          > to the world as a universal
          > spiritual belief. Mankind will
          > accept it. ECK will serve all
          > races of people and all countries."
          >
          > Harold is "updating the presentation"
          > of the ECK discourses and the
          > ECK study program with a "greater
          > current" of the Light and Sound
          > of God. Really! I don't know how
          > he's doing it... more words(?) or
          > why he's waited so long but that's
          > the talk.
          >
          > Here's more from Klemp's business
          > partner and the President of Eckankar,
          > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
          > bodies are buried):
          >
          > "All available resources of time,
          > energy, creativity, and finances
          > are being put forth to support
          > Sri Harold's vision for the future
          > of the ECK teachings on earth."
          >
          > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
          >
          > "The costs are substantial, yet
          > the spiritual benefits to mankind
          > are beyond measure."
          >
          > That sound familiar too!
          >
          > I wonder if Peter and Harold
          > will supply a financial report
          > in order to show where all of
          > these "costs" are going? LOL!
          >
          > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
          > Eckankar has set an initial
          > fund-raising goal for 2013
          > of $3,000,000 to help support
          > this program.
          >
          > Peter continues:
          > "Will you lend your heart and
          > hands to this great effort? Your
          > gifts, in whatever amount, are
          > truly appreciated. It will take
          > each and every one of us to
          > make it happen. You are the
          > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
          > You are a Co-worker with the
          > Mahanta."
          >
          > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
          > because we were never "Co-workers"
          > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
          > We were always "Underlings" versus
          > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
          > no equality! You work "For" the higher
          > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
          > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
          > therefore, you are not peer to them.
          > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
          > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
          > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
          >
          > Here's more:
          > "Your gifts of love and service will
          > help many others find their way home
          > to God. I thank you from the bottom
          > of my heart for your help with this
          > great mission."
          >
          > From the bottom of your heart?
          > Can't you be more original than that?
          >
          > "PS If you want information on including
          > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
          > check the designated box on the donation
          > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
          >
          > Also, if you would like to make a donation
          > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
          > Donate to make a secure donation via the
          > Internet."
          >
          > "Learn to give, without ever
          > thinking of a reward. That's
          > how to find the treasures of
          > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
          >
          > Of course there are several problems
          > with the above quote. First, it's a
          > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
          > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
          > That's the way it's been set-up,
          > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
          > to follow the established rules.
          > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
          > which is promised and is dangled
          > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
          > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
          > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
          > It doesn't exist but if it did......
          > Klemp would be the last one to
          > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
          > designed for the masses will
          > never get you there (heaven) if
          > there is even such a "place" or
          > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
          > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          >
          > Yes, more redundancy! After
          > almost twenty years of promising
          > "change" Klemp has finally
          > decided how he is going to
          > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
          > HK's not stepping down, but
          > there's always the hope that
          > he will... only to be dashed to
          > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
          > any case, here are some of the
          > incredible "program" changes
          > ready to take place to revitalize
          > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
          > and inherited religious scam:
          >
          > * New discourse format with audio
          > CD and dynamic workbook activities
          >
          > * Revitalized study program with
          > updated discourses in sequence for
          > chelas who have completed the first
          > seventeen years of ECK study
          >
          > * Family membership to include two
          > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
          > World
          >
          > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
          > be included with each membership
          > with children under 18
          >
          > * Easy membership donation options.
          > You may give as you are able. You can
          > now make monthly donations using a
          > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
          >
          > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
          > Whatever!!!
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Sharon and All, Glad you are doing well as are most of us who have left the cult and the lies, delusions, and codependency. Correct! These are the same
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 24, 2013
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            Hello Sharon and All,
            Glad you are doing well as
            are most of us who have left
            the cult and the lies, delusions,
            and codependency.

            Correct! These are the same
            17 discourses, except, they've
            been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
            and include a workbook and
            a CD. Klemp can't come up
            with anything better worth
            saying which, obviously, proves
            he's not what he claims.

            And, if one reads comments
            and perspectives from the Dali
            Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
            masters you will see that Klemp
            does not even come close to
            these higher levels of intellect
            or of consciousness.

            This is a problem for ECKists
            since Klemp claims, as the
            Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
            Consciousness" on earth and
            of all other Planes.

            Therefore, ECKists have to put
            their blinders on and not read
            other authors. Except, most
            EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
            and enjoy his perspectives of
            god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
            express himself more cleverly
            and with more inspiration and
            spirituality than Rumi had? This
            is why EKists are in denial. They
            have no choice, unless, they begin
            to question why that huge elephant
            is standing in the corner of the room.

            Really, Klemp can't even expand
            upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
            initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
            since HK is incapable of being more
            than his and PT's redundant and
            borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
            hindsights don't expect much from
            these discourses. What ever happened
            to prophecy? HK claims to be a
            Modern Prophet but he never proves
            it. This is one more thing that EKists
            are in denial about.

            There's actually a long list of topics
            that each ECkist must come to deny
            and never question (out loud). After
            awhile one simply accepts more and
            more lies, distortions, promises,
            assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
            on "faith."

            The belief or faith is reinforced via
            self-hypnotic suggestions and from
            the talks and discourses which result
            in "special" dreams. This self-
            hypnosis via desires has EKists look
            for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
            Others experience what seems to
            be paranormal activities as proof
            of faith and see this as Higher
            Consciousness expectation and
            promise. Little do they understand
            that Klemp had nothing to do with
            their subjective awareness of their
            mental inner/outer surroundings.

            Prometheus

            Sharon wrote:
            Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
            rearranged the order in which they send them out again?

            When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
            forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
            the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
            "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
            material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
            warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
            allowed to peek at them!

            Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
            them in the files here and at eckankartruth.

            Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
            about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
            more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
            except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
            non-eckists who've needed new ones.

            Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
            Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>

            Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
            newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
            takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
            happy you woke up & got out!

            Think Snow, everyone!!

            Hugs,

            Sharon




            prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Hello Janice and All,
            > Yes, Klemp states that:
            > "Eckankar is taking a vital
            > step to bring a new spiritual
            > opportunity to you, your
            > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
            > seekers around the world."
            >
            > The New ECK Study Program
            > (2013) is based upon a 1970
            > quote from PT's first Shariyat
            > and the borrowed dogma from
            > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
            > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
            > as well as the Book of Mormon,
            > et al.:
            >
            > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
            > Audible Life Stream. The time
            > is coming that will bring ECK
            > to the world as a universal
            > spiritual belief. Mankind will
            > accept it. ECK will serve all
            > races of people and all countries."
            >
            > Harold is "updating the presentation"
            > of the ECK discourses and the
            > ECK study program with a "greater
            > current" of the Light and Sound
            > of God. Really! I don't know how
            > he's doing it... more words(?) or
            > why he's waited so long but that's
            > the talk.
            >
            > Here's more from Klemp's business
            > partner and the President of Eckankar,
            > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
            > bodies are buried):
            >
            > "All available resources of time,
            > energy, creativity, and finances
            > are being put forth to support
            > Sri Harold's vision for the future
            > of the ECK teachings on earth."
            >
            > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
            >
            > "The costs are substantial, yet
            > the spiritual benefits to mankind
            > are beyond measure."
            >
            > That sound familiar too!
            >
            > I wonder if Peter and Harold
            > will supply a financial report
            > in order to show where all of
            > these "costs" are going? LOL!
            >
            > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
            > Eckankar has set an initial
            > fund-raising goal for 2013
            > of $3,000,000 to help support
            > this program.
            >
            > Peter continues:
            > "Will you lend your heart and
            > hands to this great effort? Your
            > gifts, in whatever amount, are
            > truly appreciated. It will take
            > each and every one of us to
            > make it happen. You are the
            > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
            > You are a Co-worker with the
            > Mahanta."
            >
            > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
            > because we were never "Co-workers"
            > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
            > We were always "Underlings" versus
            > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
            > no equality! You work "For" the higher
            > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
            > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
            > therefore, you are not peer to them.
            > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
            > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
            > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
            >
            > Here's more:
            > "Your gifts of love and service will
            > help many others find their way home
            > to God. I thank you from the bottom
            > of my heart for your help with this
            > great mission."
            >
            > From the bottom of your heart?
            > Can't you be more original than that?
            >
            > "PS If you want information on including
            > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
            > check the designated box on the donation
            > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
            >
            > Also, if you would like to make a donation
            > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
            > Donate to make a secure donation via the
            > Internet."
            >
            > "Learn to give, without ever
            > thinking of a reward. That's
            > how to find the treasures of
            > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
            >
            > Of course there are several problems
            > with the above quote. First, it's a
            > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
            > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
            > That's the way it's been set-up,
            > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
            > to follow the established rules.
            > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
            > which is promised and is dangled
            > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
            > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
            > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
            > It doesn't exist but if it did......
            > Klemp would be the last one to
            > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
            > designed for the masses will
            > never get you there (heaven) if
            > there is even such a "place" or
            > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
            > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
            trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
            the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
            suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Yes, more redundancy! After
            > almost twenty years of promising
            > "change" Klemp has finally
            > decided how he is going to
            > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
            > HK's not stepping down, but
            > there's always the hope that
            > he will... only to be dashed to
            > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
            > any case, here are some of the
            > incredible "program" changes
            > ready to take place to revitalize
            > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
            > and inherited religious scam:
            >
            > * New discourse format with audio
            > CD and dynamic workbook activities
            >
            > * Revitalized study program with
            > updated discourses in sequence for
            > chelas who have completed the first
            > seventeen years of ECK study
            >
            > * Family membership to include two
            > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
            > World
            >
            > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
            > be included with each membership
            > with children under 18
            >
            > * Easy membership donation options.
            > You may give as you are able. You can
            > now make monthly donations using a
            > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
            >
            > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
            > Whatever!!!
            >
            > Prometheus
          • noneckchains
            To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 25, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is considered some kind of golden wisdom. The eckist may actually believe that he is being a shifty Godman that is showing proof of no ego or some other absurd rationalization.

              Non ;)

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello Sharon and All,
              > Glad you are doing well as
              > are most of us who have left
              > the cult and the lies, delusions,
              > and codependency.
              >
              > Correct! These are the same
              > 17 discourses, except, they've
              > been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
              > and include a workbook and
              > a CD. Klemp can't come up
              > with anything better worth
              > saying which, obviously, proves
              > he's not what he claims.
              >
              > And, if one reads comments
              > and perspectives from the Dali
              > Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
              > masters you will see that Klemp
              > does not even come close to
              > these higher levels of intellect
              > or of consciousness.
              >
              > This is a problem for ECKists
              > since Klemp claims, as the
              > Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
              > Consciousness" on earth and
              > of all other Planes.
              >
              > Therefore, ECKists have to put
              > their blinders on and not read
              > other authors. Except, most
              > EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
              > and enjoy his perspectives of
              > god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
              > express himself more cleverly
              > and with more inspiration and
              > spirituality than Rumi had? This
              > is why EKists are in denial. They
              > have no choice, unless, they begin
              > to question why that huge elephant
              > is standing in the corner of the room.
              >
              > Really, Klemp can't even expand
              > upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
              > initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
              > since HK is incapable of being more
              > than his and PT's redundant and
              > borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
              > hindsights don't expect much from
              > these discourses. What ever happened
              > to prophecy? HK claims to be a
              > Modern Prophet but he never proves
              > it. This is one more thing that EKists
              > are in denial about.
              >
              > There's actually a long list of topics
              > that each ECkist must come to deny
              > and never question (out loud). After
              > awhile one simply accepts more and
              > more lies, distortions, promises,
              > assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
              > on "faith."
              >
              > The belief or faith is reinforced via
              > self-hypnotic suggestions and from
              > the talks and discourses which result
              > in "special" dreams. This self-
              > hypnosis via desires has EKists look
              > for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
              > Others experience what seems to
              > be paranormal activities as proof
              > of faith and see this as Higher
              > Consciousness expectation and
              > promise. Little do they understand
              > that Klemp had nothing to do with
              > their subjective awareness of their
              > mental inner/outer surroundings.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > Sharon wrote:
              > Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
              > rearranged the order in which they send them out again?
              >
              > When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
              > forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
              > the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
              > "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
              > material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
              > warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
              > allowed to peek at them!
              >
              > Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
              > them in the files here and at eckankartruth.
              >
              > Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
              > about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
              > more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
              > except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
              > non-eckists who've needed new ones.
              >
              > Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
              > Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>
              >
              > Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
              > newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
              > takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
              > happy you woke up & got out!
              >
              > Think Snow, everyone!!
              >
              > Hugs,
              >
              > Sharon
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Hello Janice and All,
              > > Yes, Klemp states that:
              > > "Eckankar is taking a vital
              > > step to bring a new spiritual
              > > opportunity to you, your
              > > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
              > > seekers around the world."
              > >
              > > The New ECK Study Program
              > > (2013) is based upon a 1970
              > > quote from PT's first Shariyat
              > > and the borrowed dogma from
              > > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
              > > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
              > > as well as the Book of Mormon,
              > > et al.:
              > >
              > > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
              > > Audible Life Stream. The time
              > > is coming that will bring ECK
              > > to the world as a universal
              > > spiritual belief. Mankind will
              > > accept it. ECK will serve all
              > > races of people and all countries."
              > >
              > > Harold is "updating the presentation"
              > > of the ECK discourses and the
              > > ECK study program with a "greater
              > > current" of the Light and Sound
              > > of God. Really! I don't know how
              > > he's doing it... more words(?) or
              > > why he's waited so long but that's
              > > the talk.
              > >
              > > Here's more from Klemp's business
              > > partner and the President of Eckankar,
              > > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
              > > bodies are buried):
              > >
              > > "All available resources of time,
              > > energy, creativity, and finances
              > > are being put forth to support
              > > Sri Harold's vision for the future
              > > of the ECK teachings on earth."
              > >
              > > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
              > >
              > > "The costs are substantial, yet
              > > the spiritual benefits to mankind
              > > are beyond measure."
              > >
              > > That sound familiar too!
              > >
              > > I wonder if Peter and Harold
              > > will supply a financial report
              > > in order to show where all of
              > > these "costs" are going? LOL!
              > >
              > > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
              > > Eckankar has set an initial
              > > fund-raising goal for 2013
              > > of $3,000,000 to help support
              > > this program.
              > >
              > > Peter continues:
              > > "Will you lend your heart and
              > > hands to this great effort? Your
              > > gifts, in whatever amount, are
              > > truly appreciated. It will take
              > > each and every one of us to
              > > make it happen. You are the
              > > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
              > > You are a Co-worker with the
              > > Mahanta."
              > >
              > > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
              > > because we were never "Co-workers"
              > > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
              > > We were always "Underlings" versus
              > > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
              > > no equality! You work "For" the higher
              > > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
              > > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
              > > therefore, you are not peer to them.
              > > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
              > > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
              > > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
              > >
              > > Here's more:
              > > "Your gifts of love and service will
              > > help many others find their way home
              > > to God. I thank you from the bottom
              > > of my heart for your help with this
              > > great mission."
              > >
              > > From the bottom of your heart?
              > > Can't you be more original than that?
              > >
              > > "PS If you want information on including
              > > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
              > > check the designated box on the donation
              > > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
              > >
              > > Also, if you would like to make a donation
              > > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
              > > Donate to make a secure donation via the
              > > Internet."
              > >
              > > "Learn to give, without ever
              > > thinking of a reward. That's
              > > how to find the treasures of
              > > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
              > >
              > > Of course there are several problems
              > > with the above quote. First, it's a
              > > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
              > > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
              > > That's the way it's been set-up,
              > > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
              > > to follow the established rules.
              > > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
              > > which is promised and is dangled
              > > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
              > > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
              > > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
              > > It doesn't exist but if it did......
              > > Klemp would be the last one to
              > > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
              > > designed for the masses will
              > > never get you there (heaven) if
              > > there is even such a "place" or
              > > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
              > > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
              > trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
              > the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
              > suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
              > >
              > > prometheus wrote:
              > >
              > > Yes, more redundancy! After
              > > almost twenty years of promising
              > > "change" Klemp has finally
              > > decided how he is going to
              > > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
              > > HK's not stepping down, but
              > > there's always the hope that
              > > he will... only to be dashed to
              > > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
              > > any case, here are some of the
              > > incredible "program" changes
              > > ready to take place to revitalize
              > > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
              > > and inherited religious scam:
              > >
              > > * New discourse format with audio
              > > CD and dynamic workbook activities
              > >
              > > * Revitalized study program with
              > > updated discourses in sequence for
              > > chelas who have completed the first
              > > seventeen years of ECK study
              > >
              > > * Family membership to include two
              > > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
              > > World
              > >
              > > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
              > > be included with each membership
              > > with children under 18
              > >
              > > * Easy membership donation options.
              > > You may give as you are able. You can
              > > now make monthly donations using a
              > > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
              > >
              > > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
              > > Whatever!!!
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              >
            • Janice Pfeiffer
              While I was in the org, whenever I heard HK speak, I felt like I had to slow down my hearing. my thinking and my feelings because he was so incredibly slow,
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 26, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                While I was in the org, whenever I heard HK speak, I felt like I had to slow down my hearing. my thinking and my feelings because he was so incredibly slow, bland and unimaginative and every fiber of my being was aware of it.  I made continued pitiful attempts to say that my attitude was to blame and I needed to learn respect and appreciation for the LEM.  In fact, I beat myself up a lot because try though I might, I couldn't get past those ideas about HKs deficiencies.  I didn't talk about him at all while I tried to reconcile myself about the LEM. There was some pretty good stuff in all the books I read and so I just tried to stop myself from thinking about the obvious idiot who no one would dare call an idiot and who was touted as the most developed, the most powerful and the most remarkable individual living in physical form.  Today, I am proud to say that I have forgotten all about that ridiculous self denial and I am pleased to be able to say that I believe HK to border on being mentally challenged and most definitely, I feel his talks show blatant lack of inspiration and creativity.  I say these things with out malice but state I do have a need to express what I tried to deny as a good eckist.  I just couldn't get to the point of total disillusion as other good eckist and I could not get mesmerized by the power that this man was touted as having since it wasn't evidenced by his thoughts, words or deeds.   In fact, he showed blatant immaturity and so did a lot of the H.Is..  So I will simple say it now like I SEE it is.  Him who look and act like idiot, most likely is idiot. 

                From: noneckchains <eckchains@...>
                To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 1:32 AM
                Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar Renews, Revitalizes, Revamps, Repeats, and Regurgitates
                 
                To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is considered some kind of golden wisdom. The eckist may actually believe that he is being a shifty Godman that is showing proof of no ego or some other absurd rationalization.

                Non ;)

                --- In mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Sharon and All,
                > Glad you are doing well as
                > are most of us who have left
                > the cult and the lies, delusions,
                > and codependency.
                >
                > Correct! These are the same
                > 17 discourses, except, they've
                > been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
                > and include a workbook and
                > a CD. Klemp can't come up
                > with anything better worth
                > saying which, obviously, proves
                > he's not what he claims.
                >
                > And, if one reads comments
                > and perspectives from the Dali
                > Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
                > masters you will see that Klemp
                > does not even come close to
                > these higher levels of intellect
                > or of consciousness.
                >
                > This is a problem for ECKists
                > since Klemp claims, as the
                > Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
                > Consciousness" on earth and
                > of all other Planes.
                >
                > Therefore, ECKists have to put
                > their blinders on and not read
                > other authors. Except, most
                > EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
                > and enjoy his perspectives of
                > god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
                > express himself more cleverly
                > and with more inspiration and
                > spirituality than Rumi had? This
                > is why EKists are in denial. They
                > have no choice, unless, they begin
                > to question why that huge elephant
                > is standing in the corner of the room.
                >
                > Really, Klemp can't even expand
                > upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
                > initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
                > since HK is incapable of being more
                > than his and PT's redundant and
                > borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
                > hindsights don't expect much from
                > these discourses. What ever happened
                > to prophecy? HK claims to be a
                > Modern Prophet but he never proves
                > it. This is one more thing that EKists
                > are in denial about.
                >
                > There's actually a long list of topics
                > that each ECkist must come to deny
                > and never question (out loud). After
                > awhile one simply accepts more and
                > more lies, distortions, promises,
                > assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
                > on "faith."
                >
                > The belief or faith is reinforced via
                > self-hypnotic suggestions and from
                > the talks and discourses which result
                > in "special" dreams. This self-
                > hypnosis via desires has EKists look
                > for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
                > Others experience what seems to
                > be paranormal activities as proof
                > of faith and see this as Higher
                > Consciousness expectation and
                > promise. Little do they understand
                > that Klemp had nothing to do with
                > their subjective awareness of their
                > mental inner/outer surroundings.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > Sharon wrote:
                > Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
                > rearranged the order in which they send them out again?
                >
                > When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
                > forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
                > the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
                > "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
                > material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
                > warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
                > allowed to peek at them!
                >
                > Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
                > them in the files here and at eckankartruth.
                >
                > Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
                > about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
                > more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
                > except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
                > non-eckists who've needed new ones.
                >
                > Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
                > Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>
                >
                > Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
                > newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
                > takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
                > happy you woke up & got out!
                >
                > Think Snow, everyone!!
                >
                > Hugs,
                >
                > Sharon
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello Janice and All,
                > > Yes, Klemp states that:
                > > "Eckankar is taking a vital
                > > step to bring a new spiritual
                > > opportunity to you, your
                > > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
                > > seekers around the world."
                > >
                > > The New ECK Study Program
                > > (2013) is based upon a 1970
                > > quote from PT's first Shariyat
                > > and the borrowed dogma from
                > > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
                > > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
                > > as well as the Book of Mormon,
                > > et al.:
                > >
                > > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
                > > Audible Life Stream. The time
                > > is coming that will bring ECK
                > > to the world as a universal
                > > spiritual belief. Mankind will
                > > accept it. ECK will serve all
                > > races of people and all countries."
                > >
                > > Harold is "updating the presentation"
                > > of the ECK discourses and the
                > > ECK study program with a "greater
                > > current" of the Light and Sound
                > > of God. Really! I don't know how
                > > he's doing it... more words(?) or
                > > why he's waited so long but that's
                > > the talk.
                > >
                > > Here's more from Klemp's business
                > > partner and the President of Eckankar,
                > > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
                > > bodies are buried):
                > >
                > > "All available resources of time,
                > > energy, creativity, and finances
                > > are being put forth to support
                > > Sri Harold's vision for the future
                > > of the ECK teachings on earth."
                > >
                > > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
                > >
                > > "The costs are substantial, yet
                > > the spiritual benefits to mankind
                > > are beyond measure."
                > >
                > > That sound familiar too!
                > >
                > > I wonder if Peter and Harold
                > > will supply a financial report
                > > in order to show where all of
                > > these "costs" are going? LOL!
                > >
                > > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
                > > Eckankar has set an initial
                > > fund-raising goal for 2013
                > > of $3,000,000 to help support
                > > this program.
                > >
                > > Peter continues:
                > > "Will you lend your heart and
                > > hands to this great effort? Your
                > > gifts, in whatever amount, are
                > > truly appreciated. It will take
                > > each and every one of us to
                > > make it happen. You are the
                > > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
                > > You are a Co-worker with the
                > > Mahanta."
                > >
                > > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
                > > because we were never "Co-workers"
                > > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
                > > We were always "Underlings" versus
                > > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
                > > no equality! You work "For" the higher
                > > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
                > > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
                > > therefore, you are not peer to them.
                > > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
                > > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
                > > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
                > >
                > > Here's more:
                > > "Your gifts of love and service will
                > > help many others find their way home
                > > to God. I thank you from the bottom
                > > of my heart for your help with this
                > > great mission."
                > >
                > > From the bottom of your heart?
                > > Can't you be more original than that?
                > >
                > > "PS If you want information on including
                > > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
                > > check the designated box on the donation
                > > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
                > >
                > > Also, if you would like to make a donation
                > > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
                > > Donate to make a secure donation via the
                > > Internet."
                > >
                > > "Learn to give, without ever
                > > thinking of a reward. That's
                > > how to find the treasures of
                > > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
                > >
                > > Of course there are several problems
                > > with the above quote. First, it's a
                > > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
                > > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
                > > That's the way it's been set-up,
                > > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
                > > to follow the established rules.
                > > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
                > > which is promised and is dangled
                > > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
                > > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
                > > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
                > > It doesn't exist but if it did......
                > > Klemp would be the last one to
                > > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
                > > designed for the masses will
                > > never get you there (heaven) if
                > > there is even such a "place" or
                > > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                > > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
                > trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
                > the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
                > suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Yes, more redundancy! After
                > > almost twenty years of promising
                > > "change" Klemp has finally
                > > decided how he is going to
                > > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
                > > HK's not stepping down, but
                > > there's always the hope that
                > > he will... only to be dashed to
                > > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
                > > any case, here are some of the
                > > incredible "program" changes
                > > ready to take place to revitalize
                > > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
                > > and inherited religious scam:
                > >
                > > * New discourse format with audio
                > > CD and dynamic workbook activities
                > >
                > > * Revitalized study program with
                > > updated discourses in sequence for
                > > chelas who have completed the first
                > > seventeen years of ECK study
                > >
                > > * Family membership to include two
                > > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
                > > World
                > >
                > > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
                > > be included with each membership
                > > with children under 18
                > >
                > > * Easy membership donation options.
                > > You may give as you are able. You can
                > > now make monthly donations using a
                > > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
                > >
                > > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
                > > Whatever!!!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                >

              • prometheus_973
                Hello Janice, Thanks for sharing your insights. I can relate to what you ve experienced. I always tried, like others, to buy into the whole spiel, about the
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 27, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Janice,
                  Thanks for sharing your
                  insights. I can relate to
                  what you've experienced.

                  I always tried, like others,
                  to buy into the whole spiel,
                  about the Mahanta, but there
                  were just too many holes in
                  the logic. I really tried and
                  at one time thought it was
                  me who was the problem.

                  However, I was an observer
                  and I looked and listened
                  closely to what the H.I.s
                  were doing and saying
                  (behind closed doors too).
                  It was schizophrenic and
                  hypocritical at best. Still,
                  they were 6ths and 7ths.
                  Why was that? To violate
                  the Four Zoas and yet the
                  Mahanta knew nothing
                  about it and would promote
                  them! The whole goal was
                  that next initiation, more
                  and more were needed
                  to reach that ultimate goal.

                  Eckankar became a second
                  job... in sales. And to be a
                  good salesman you have to
                  believe in the product.... or
                  at least make it sound like
                  you do. I could talk the talk
                  and I had plenty of phenomenal
                  experiences to walk the walk.

                  However, the real problem
                  was not sounding like every
                  one else in a New Age religion
                  or philosophy. One's described
                  "spiritual benefits" sounded
                  like every other religious
                  testimonial. This is why many
                  ECKists don't like reading
                  non-approved books, although,
                  many do. Most EKists don't
                  want to clutter their minds
                  with mental complexities.
                  Thus, simple minded books
                  on Animal Angels fulfills
                  their non-discourse needs.

                  Many H.I.s don't really buy
                  into Klemp's Guidelines or
                  his (and Twitchell's) exaggerated
                  description of the Mahanta's
                  abilities. After all, shouldn't
                  some of that "All Knowingness"
                  and Prophecy carryover into
                  the Physical? Klemp is a low
                  scale pretender who can only
                  get away with his act when
                  using it on those who have
                  already bought and drank
                  the kool-aid. They have
                  nothing else except for
                  Eckankar, their friends,
                  their hopes, everything
                  is illusion, especially, those
                  initiations. Thus, Eckankar
                  and it's dogma, ECK Masters,
                  etc. is all fictional.

                  I wonder how EKists justify
                  having a Garden of Eden
                  (see Polarians) with Adom
                  and Ede... another letter
                  switch around, addition
                  and omission used by PT.
                  ECKists have laughed at
                  Christians for believing
                  in a Garden of Eden when,
                  if they'd read and pay attention,
                  would see that Eckankar had
                  one as well.... the same one!

                  Prometheus







                  Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                  While I was in the org, whenever I heard HK speak, I felt like I had to slow down my hearing. my thinking and my feelings because he was so incredibly slow, bland and unimaginative and every fiber of my being was aware of it. I made continued pitiful attempts to say that my attitude was to blame and I needed to learn respect and appreciation for the LEM. In fact, I beat myself up a lot because try though I might, I couldn't get past those ideas about HKs deficiencies. I didn't talk about him at all while I tried to reconcile myself about the LEM. There was some pretty good stuff in all the books I read and so I just tried to stop myself from thinking about the obvious idiot who no one would dare call an idiot and who was touted as the most developed, the most powerful and the most remarkable individual living in physical form. Today, I am proud to say that I have forgotten all about that ridiculous self denial and I am pleased to be able to say that I believe HK to border on being mentally challenged and most definitely, I feel his talks show blatant lack of inspiration and creativity. I say these things with out malice but state I do have a need to express what I tried to deny as a good eckist. I just couldn't get to the point of total disillusion as other good eckist and I could not get mesmerized by the power that this man was touted as having since it wasn't evidenced by his thoughts, words or deeds. In fact, he showed blatant immaturity and so did a lot of the H.Is.. So I will simple say it now like I SEE it is. Him who look and act like idiot, most likely is idiot.

                  eckchains wrote:


                  To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is considered some kind of golden wisdom. The eckist may actually believe that he is being a shifty Godman that is showing proof of no ego or some other absurd rationalization.

                  Non ;)

                  prometheus wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Sharon and All,
                  > Glad you are doing well as
                  > are most of us who have left
                  > the cult and the lies, delusions,
                  > and codependency.
                  >
                  > Correct! These are the same
                  > 17 discourses, except, they've
                  > been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
                  > and include a workbook and
                  > a CD. Klemp can't come up
                  > with anything better worth
                  > saying which, obviously, proves
                  > he's not what he claims.
                  >
                  > And, if one reads comments
                  > and perspectives from the Dali
                  > Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
                  > masters you will see that Klemp
                  > does not even come close to
                  > these higher levels of intellect
                  > or of consciousness.
                  >
                  > This is a problem for ECKists
                  > since Klemp claims, as the
                  > Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
                  > Consciousness" on earth and
                  > of all other Planes.
                  >
                  > Therefore, ECKists have to put
                  > their blinders on and not read
                  > other authors. Except, most
                  > EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
                  > and enjoy his perspectives of
                  > god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
                  > express himself more cleverly
                  > and with more inspiration and
                  > spirituality than Rumi had? This
                  > is why EKists are in denial. They
                  > have no choice, unless, they begin
                  > to question why that huge elephant
                  > is standing in the corner of the room.
                  >
                  > Really, Klemp can't even expand
                  > upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
                  > initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
                  > since HK is incapable of being more
                  > than his and PT's redundant and
                  > borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
                  > hindsights don't expect much from
                  > these discourses. What ever happened
                  > to prophecy? HK claims to be a
                  > Modern Prophet but he never proves
                  > it. This is one more thing that EKists
                  > are in denial about.
                  >
                  > There's actually a long list of topics
                  > that each ECkist must come to deny
                  > and never question (out loud). After
                  > awhile one simply accepts more and
                  > more lies, distortions, promises,
                  > assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
                  > on "faith."
                  >
                  > The belief or faith is reinforced via
                  > self-hypnotic suggestions and from
                  > the talks and discourses which result
                  > in "special" dreams. This self-
                  > hypnosis via desires has EKists look
                  > for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
                  > Others experience what seems to
                  > be paranormal activities as proof
                  > of faith and see this as Higher
                  > Consciousness expectation and
                  > promise. Little do they understand
                  > that Klemp had nothing to do with
                  > their subjective awareness of their
                  > mental inner/outer surroundings.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > Sharon wrote:
                  > Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
                  > rearranged the order in which they send them out again?
                  >
                  > When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
                  > forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
                  > the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
                  > "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
                  > material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
                  > warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
                  > allowed to peek at them!
                  >
                  > Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
                  > them in the files here and at eckankartruth.
                  >
                  > Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
                  > about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
                  > more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
                  > except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
                  > non-eckists who've needed new ones.
                  >
                  > Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
                  > Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>
                  >
                  > Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
                  > newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
                  > takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
                  > happy you woke up & got out!
                  >
                  > Think Snow, everyone!!
                  >
                  > Hugs,
                  >
                  > Sharon
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Janice and All,
                  > > Yes, Klemp states that:
                  > > "Eckankar is taking a vital
                  > > step to bring a new spiritual
                  > > opportunity to you, your
                  > > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
                  > > seekers around the world."
                  > >
                  > > The New ECK Study Program
                  > > (2013) is based upon a 1970
                  > > quote from PT's first Shariyat
                  > > and the borrowed dogma from
                  > > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
                  > > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
                  > > as well as the Book of Mormon,
                  > > et al.:
                  > >
                  > > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
                  > > Audible Life Stream. The time
                  > > is coming that will bring ECK
                  > > to the world as a universal
                  > > spiritual belief. Mankind will
                  > > accept it. ECK will serve all
                  > > races of people and all countries."
                  > >
                  > > Harold is "updating the presentation"
                  > > of the ECK discourses and the
                  > > ECK study program with a "greater
                  > > current" of the Light and Sound
                  > > of God. Really! I don't know how
                  > > he's doing it... more words(?) or
                  > > why he's waited so long but that's
                  > > the talk.
                  > >
                  > > Here's more from Klemp's business
                  > > partner and the President of Eckankar,
                  > > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
                  > > bodies are buried):
                  > >
                  > > "All available resources of time,
                  > > energy, creativity, and finances
                  > > are being put forth to support
                  > > Sri Harold's vision for the future
                  > > of the ECK teachings on earth."
                  > >
                  > > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
                  > >
                  > > "The costs are substantial, yet
                  > > the spiritual benefits to mankind
                  > > are beyond measure."
                  > >
                  > > That sound familiar too!
                  > >
                  > > I wonder if Peter and Harold
                  > > will supply a financial report
                  > > in order to show where all of
                  > > these "costs" are going? LOL!
                  > >
                  > > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
                  > > Eckankar has set an initial
                  > > fund-raising goal for 2013
                  > > of $3,000,000 to help support
                  > > this program.
                  > >
                  > > Peter continues:
                  > > "Will you lend your heart and
                  > > hands to this great effort? Your
                  > > gifts, in whatever amount, are
                  > > truly appreciated. It will take
                  > > each and every one of us to
                  > > make it happen. You are the
                  > > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
                  > > You are a Co-worker with the
                  > > Mahanta."
                  > >
                  > > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
                  > > because we were never "Co-workers"
                  > > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
                  > > We were always "Underlings" versus
                  > > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
                  > > no equality! You work "For" the higher
                  > > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
                  > > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
                  > > therefore, you are not peer to them.
                  > > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
                  > > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
                  > > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
                  > >
                  > > Here's more:
                  > > "Your gifts of love and service will
                  > > help many others find their way home
                  > > to God. I thank you from the bottom
                  > > of my heart for your help with this
                  > > great mission."
                  > >
                  > > From the bottom of your heart?
                  > > Can't you be more original than that?
                  > >
                  > > "PS If you want information on including
                  > > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
                  > > check the designated box on the donation
                  > > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
                  > >
                  > > Also, if you would like to make a donation
                  > > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
                  > > Donate to make a secure donation via the
                  > > Internet."
                  > >
                  > > "Learn to give, without ever
                  > > thinking of a reward. That's
                  > > how to find the treasures of
                  > > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
                  > >
                  > > Of course there are several problems
                  > > with the above quote. First, it's a
                  > > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
                  > > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
                  > > That's the way it's been set-up,
                  > > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
                  > > to follow the established rules.
                  > > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
                  > > which is promised and is dangled
                  > > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
                  > > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
                  > > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
                  > > It doesn't exist but if it did......
                  > > Klemp would be the last one to
                  > > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
                  > > designed for the masses will
                  > > never get you there (heaven) if
                  > > there is even such a "place" or
                  > > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                  > > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
                  > trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
                  > the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
                  > suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
                  > >
                  > > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Yes, more redundancy! After
                  > > almost twenty years of promising
                  > > "change" Klemp has finally
                  > > decided how he is going to
                  > > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
                  > > HK's not stepping down, but
                  > > there's always the hope that
                  > > he will... only to be dashed to
                  > > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
                  > > any case, here are some of the
                  > > incredible "program" changes
                  > > ready to take place to revitalize
                  > > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
                  > > and inherited religious scam:
                  > >
                  > > * New discourse format with audio
                  > > CD and dynamic workbook activities
                  > >
                  > > * Revitalized study program with
                  > > updated discourses in sequence for
                  > > chelas who have completed the first
                  > > seventeen years of ECK study
                  > >
                  > > * Family membership to include two
                  > > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
                  > > World
                  > >
                  > > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
                  > > be included with each membership
                  > > with children under 18
                  > >
                  > > * Easy membership donation options.
                  > > You may give as you are able. You can
                  > > now make monthly donations using a
                  > > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
                  > >
                  > > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
                  > > Whatever!!!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
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