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Eckankar Renews, Revitalizes, Revamps, Repeats, and Regurgitates

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  • prometheus_973
    Yes, more redundancy! After almost twenty years of promising change Klemp has finally decided how he is going to accomplish this. Unfortunately, HK s not
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 22, 2013
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      Yes, more redundancy! After
      almost twenty years of promising
      "change" Klemp has finally
      decided how he is going to
      accomplish this. Unfortunately,
      HK's not stepping down, but
      there's always the hope that
      he will... only to be dashed to
      pieces after every Oct. 22. In
      any case, here are some of the
      incredible "program" changes
      ready to take place to revitalize
      a dying, stagnant, insignificant
      and inherited religious scam:

      * New discourse format with audio
      CD and dynamic workbook activities

      * Revitalized study program with
      updated discourses in sequence for
      chelas who have completed the first
      seventeen years of ECK study

      * Family membership to include two
      discourses and two copies of the Mystic
      World

      * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
      be included with each membership
      with children under 18

      * Easy membership donation options.
      You may give as you are able. You can
      now make monthly donations using a
      credit card in the amount of your choosing.


      See! What a change! What a revitalization!
      Whatever!!!

      Prometheus
    • Janice Pfeiffer
      Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 22, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more suckers.  Hey, somebody has got to pay!

        From: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 11:29 PM
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Eckankar Renews, Revitalizes, Revamps, Repeats, and Regurgitates
         
        Yes, more redundancy! After
        almost twenty years of promising
        "change" Klemp has finally
        decided how he is going to
        accomplish this. Unfortunately,
        HK's not stepping down, but
        there's always the hope that
        he will... only to be dashed to
        pieces after every Oct. 22. In
        any case, here are some of the
        incredible "program" changes
        ready to take place to revitalize
        a dying, stagnant, insignificant
        and inherited religious scam:

        * New discourse format with audio
        CD and dynamic workbook activities

        * Revitalized study program with
        updated discourses in sequence for
        chelas who have completed the first
        seventeen years of ECK study

        * Family membership to include two
        discourses and two copies of the Mystic
        World

        * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
        be included with each membership
        with children under 18

        * Easy membership donation options.
        You may give as you are able. You can
        now make monthly donations using a
        credit card in the amount of your choosing.

        See! What a change! What a revitalization!
        Whatever!!!

        Prometheus

      • prometheus_973
        Hello Janice and All, Yes, Klemp states that: Eckankar is taking a vital step to bring a new spiritual opportunity to you, your fellow Eckists, and spiritual
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 23, 2013
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          Hello Janice and All,
          Yes, Klemp states that:
          "Eckankar is taking a vital
          step to bring a new spiritual
          opportunity to you, your
          fellow Eckists, and spiritual
          seekers around the world."

          The New ECK Study Program
          (2013) is based upon a 1970
          quote from PT's first Shariyat
          and the borrowed dogma from
          Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
          from the Judeo-Christian Bible
          as well as the Book of Mormon,
          et al.:

          "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
          Audible Life Stream. The time
          is coming that will bring ECK
          to the world as a universal
          spiritual belief. Mankind will
          accept it. ECK will serve all
          races of people and all countries."

          Harold is "updating the presentation"
          of the ECK discourses and the
          ECK study program with a "greater
          current" of the Light and Sound
          of God. Really! I don't know how
          he's doing it... more words(?) or
          why he's waited so long but that's
          the talk.

          Here's more from Klemp's business
          partner and the President of Eckankar,
          Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
          bodies are buried):

          "All available resources of time,
          energy, creativity, and finances
          are being put forth to support
          Sri Harold's vision for the future
          of the ECK teachings on earth."

          Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.

          "The costs are substantial, yet
          the spiritual benefits to mankind
          are beyond measure."

          That sound familiar too!

          I wonder if Peter and Harold
          will supply a financial report
          in order to show where all of
          these "costs" are going? LOL!

          ECK Mission Fund Goal -
          Eckankar has set an initial
          fund-raising goal for 2013
          of $3,000,000 to help support
          this program.

          Peter continues:
          "Will you lend your heart and
          hands to this great effort? Your
          gifts, in whatever amount, are
          truly appreciated. It will take
          each and every one of us to
          make it happen. You are the
          heart and soul of the ECK mission.
          You are a Co-worker with the
          Mahanta."

          See, now we all know that's Bullshit
          because we were never "Co-workers"
          "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
          We were always "Underlings" versus
          Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
          no equality! You work "For" the higher
          ups and not "with" the higher ups.
          You are evaluated by the higher ups,
          therefore, you are not peer to them.
          There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
          and of being a "Co-worker." It's
          double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.

          Here's more:
          "Your gifts of love and service will
          help many others find their way home
          to God. I thank you from the bottom
          of my heart for your help with this
          great mission."

          From the bottom of your heart?
          Can't you be more original than that?

          "PS If you want information on including
          Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
          check the designated box on the donation
          form and return it in the enclosed envelope.

          Also, if you would like to make a donation
          via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
          Donate to make a secure donation via the
          Internet."

          "Learn to give, without ever
          thinking of a reward. That's
          how to find the treasures of
          heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul

          Of course there are several problems
          with the above quote. First, it's a
          lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
          owed rewards via outer Initiations.
          That's the way it's been set-up,
          except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
          to follow the established rules.
          And, let's talk about this "heaven"
          which is promised and is dangled
          like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
          Define this "heaven?" Where or what
          is it? What "level?" It's just words!
          It doesn't exist but if it did......
          Klemp would be the last one to
          know! Plus, Religious Dogma
          designed for the masses will
          never get you there (heaven) if
          there is even such a "place" or
          state. Isn't this obvious by now?!

          Prometheus

          Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
          Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!

          prometheus wrote:

          Yes, more redundancy! After
          almost twenty years of promising
          "change" Klemp has finally
          decided how he is going to
          accomplish this. Unfortunately,
          HK's not stepping down, but
          there's always the hope that
          he will... only to be dashed to
          pieces after every Oct. 22. In
          any case, here are some of the
          incredible "program" changes
          ready to take place to revitalize
          a dying, stagnant, insignificant
          and inherited religious scam:

          * New discourse format with audio
          CD and dynamic workbook activities

          * Revitalized study program with
          updated discourses in sequence for
          chelas who have completed the first
          seventeen years of ECK study

          * Family membership to include two
          discourses and two copies of the Mystic
          World

          * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
          be included with each membership
          with children under 18

          * Easy membership donation options.
          You may give as you are able. You can
          now make monthly donations using a
          credit card in the amount of your choosing.

          See! What a change! What a revitalization!
          Whatever!!!

          Prometheus
        • Sharon
          Ha, I bet the new study program is the same old, same old - maybe they ve just rearranged the order in which they send them out again? When I first joined, I
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 24, 2013
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            Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just rearranged the order in which they send them out again?

            When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were allowed to peek at them!

            Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post them in the files here and at eckankartruth.

            Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis - except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few non-eckists who've needed new ones.

            Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!! Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>

            Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO happy you woke up & got out!

            Think Snow, everyone!!

            Hugs,

            Sharon



            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello Janice and All,
            > Yes, Klemp states that:
            > "Eckankar is taking a vital
            > step to bring a new spiritual
            > opportunity to you, your
            > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
            > seekers around the world."
            >
            > The New ECK Study Program
            > (2013) is based upon a 1970
            > quote from PT's first Shariyat
            > and the borrowed dogma from
            > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
            > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
            > as well as the Book of Mormon,
            > et al.:
            >
            > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
            > Audible Life Stream. The time
            > is coming that will bring ECK
            > to the world as a universal
            > spiritual belief. Mankind will
            > accept it. ECK will serve all
            > races of people and all countries."
            >
            > Harold is "updating the presentation"
            > of the ECK discourses and the
            > ECK study program with a "greater
            > current" of the Light and Sound
            > of God. Really! I don't know how
            > he's doing it... more words(?) or
            > why he's waited so long but that's
            > the talk.
            >
            > Here's more from Klemp's business
            > partner and the President of Eckankar,
            > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
            > bodies are buried):
            >
            > "All available resources of time,
            > energy, creativity, and finances
            > are being put forth to support
            > Sri Harold's vision for the future
            > of the ECK teachings on earth."
            >
            > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
            >
            > "The costs are substantial, yet
            > the spiritual benefits to mankind
            > are beyond measure."
            >
            > That sound familiar too!
            >
            > I wonder if Peter and Harold
            > will supply a financial report
            > in order to show where all of
            > these "costs" are going? LOL!
            >
            > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
            > Eckankar has set an initial
            > fund-raising goal for 2013
            > of $3,000,000 to help support
            > this program.
            >
            > Peter continues:
            > "Will you lend your heart and
            > hands to this great effort? Your
            > gifts, in whatever amount, are
            > truly appreciated. It will take
            > each and every one of us to
            > make it happen. You are the
            > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
            > You are a Co-worker with the
            > Mahanta."
            >
            > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
            > because we were never "Co-workers"
            > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
            > We were always "Underlings" versus
            > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
            > no equality! You work "For" the higher
            > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
            > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
            > therefore, you are not peer to them.
            > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
            > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
            > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
            >
            > Here's more:
            > "Your gifts of love and service will
            > help many others find their way home
            > to God. I thank you from the bottom
            > of my heart for your help with this
            > great mission."
            >
            > From the bottom of your heart?
            > Can't you be more original than that?
            >
            > "PS If you want information on including
            > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
            > check the designated box on the donation
            > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
            >
            > Also, if you would like to make a donation
            > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
            > Donate to make a secure donation via the
            > Internet."
            >
            > "Learn to give, without ever
            > thinking of a reward. That's
            > how to find the treasures of
            > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
            >
            > Of course there are several problems
            > with the above quote. First, it's a
            > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
            > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
            > That's the way it's been set-up,
            > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
            > to follow the established rules.
            > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
            > which is promised and is dangled
            > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
            > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
            > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
            > It doesn't exist but if it did......
            > Klemp would be the last one to
            > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
            > designed for the masses will
            > never get you there (heaven) if
            > there is even such a "place" or
            > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
            > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            >
            > Yes, more redundancy! After
            > almost twenty years of promising
            > "change" Klemp has finally
            > decided how he is going to
            > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
            > HK's not stepping down, but
            > there's always the hope that
            > he will... only to be dashed to
            > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
            > any case, here are some of the
            > incredible "program" changes
            > ready to take place to revitalize
            > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
            > and inherited religious scam:
            >
            > * New discourse format with audio
            > CD and dynamic workbook activities
            >
            > * Revitalized study program with
            > updated discourses in sequence for
            > chelas who have completed the first
            > seventeen years of ECK study
            >
            > * Family membership to include two
            > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
            > World
            >
            > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
            > be included with each membership
            > with children under 18
            >
            > * Easy membership donation options.
            > You may give as you are able. You can
            > now make monthly donations using a
            > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
            >
            > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
            > Whatever!!!
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
          • prometheus_973
            Hello Sharon and All, Glad you are doing well as are most of us who have left the cult and the lies, delusions, and codependency. Correct! These are the same
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 24, 2013
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              Hello Sharon and All,
              Glad you are doing well as
              are most of us who have left
              the cult and the lies, delusions,
              and codependency.

              Correct! These are the same
              17 discourses, except, they've
              been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
              and include a workbook and
              a CD. Klemp can't come up
              with anything better worth
              saying which, obviously, proves
              he's not what he claims.

              And, if one reads comments
              and perspectives from the Dali
              Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
              masters you will see that Klemp
              does not even come close to
              these higher levels of intellect
              or of consciousness.

              This is a problem for ECKists
              since Klemp claims, as the
              Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
              Consciousness" on earth and
              of all other Planes.

              Therefore, ECKists have to put
              their blinders on and not read
              other authors. Except, most
              EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
              and enjoy his perspectives of
              god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
              express himself more cleverly
              and with more inspiration and
              spirituality than Rumi had? This
              is why EKists are in denial. They
              have no choice, unless, they begin
              to question why that huge elephant
              is standing in the corner of the room.

              Really, Klemp can't even expand
              upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
              initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
              since HK is incapable of being more
              than his and PT's redundant and
              borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
              hindsights don't expect much from
              these discourses. What ever happened
              to prophecy? HK claims to be a
              Modern Prophet but he never proves
              it. This is one more thing that EKists
              are in denial about.

              There's actually a long list of topics
              that each ECkist must come to deny
              and never question (out loud). After
              awhile one simply accepts more and
              more lies, distortions, promises,
              assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
              on "faith."

              The belief or faith is reinforced via
              self-hypnotic suggestions and from
              the talks and discourses which result
              in "special" dreams. This self-
              hypnosis via desires has EKists look
              for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
              Others experience what seems to
              be paranormal activities as proof
              of faith and see this as Higher
              Consciousness expectation and
              promise. Little do they understand
              that Klemp had nothing to do with
              their subjective awareness of their
              mental inner/outer surroundings.

              Prometheus

              Sharon wrote:
              Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
              rearranged the order in which they send them out again?

              When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
              forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
              the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
              "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
              material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
              warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
              allowed to peek at them!

              Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
              them in the files here and at eckankartruth.

              Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
              about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
              more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
              except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
              non-eckists who've needed new ones.

              Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
              Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>

              Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
              newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
              takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
              happy you woke up & got out!

              Think Snow, everyone!!

              Hugs,

              Sharon




              prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Hello Janice and All,
              > Yes, Klemp states that:
              > "Eckankar is taking a vital
              > step to bring a new spiritual
              > opportunity to you, your
              > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
              > seekers around the world."
              >
              > The New ECK Study Program
              > (2013) is based upon a 1970
              > quote from PT's first Shariyat
              > and the borrowed dogma from
              > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
              > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
              > as well as the Book of Mormon,
              > et al.:
              >
              > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
              > Audible Life Stream. The time
              > is coming that will bring ECK
              > to the world as a universal
              > spiritual belief. Mankind will
              > accept it. ECK will serve all
              > races of people and all countries."
              >
              > Harold is "updating the presentation"
              > of the ECK discourses and the
              > ECK study program with a "greater
              > current" of the Light and Sound
              > of God. Really! I don't know how
              > he's doing it... more words(?) or
              > why he's waited so long but that's
              > the talk.
              >
              > Here's more from Klemp's business
              > partner and the President of Eckankar,
              > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
              > bodies are buried):
              >
              > "All available resources of time,
              > energy, creativity, and finances
              > are being put forth to support
              > Sri Harold's vision for the future
              > of the ECK teachings on earth."
              >
              > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
              >
              > "The costs are substantial, yet
              > the spiritual benefits to mankind
              > are beyond measure."
              >
              > That sound familiar too!
              >
              > I wonder if Peter and Harold
              > will supply a financial report
              > in order to show where all of
              > these "costs" are going? LOL!
              >
              > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
              > Eckankar has set an initial
              > fund-raising goal for 2013
              > of $3,000,000 to help support
              > this program.
              >
              > Peter continues:
              > "Will you lend your heart and
              > hands to this great effort? Your
              > gifts, in whatever amount, are
              > truly appreciated. It will take
              > each and every one of us to
              > make it happen. You are the
              > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
              > You are a Co-worker with the
              > Mahanta."
              >
              > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
              > because we were never "Co-workers"
              > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
              > We were always "Underlings" versus
              > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
              > no equality! You work "For" the higher
              > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
              > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
              > therefore, you are not peer to them.
              > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
              > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
              > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
              >
              > Here's more:
              > "Your gifts of love and service will
              > help many others find their way home
              > to God. I thank you from the bottom
              > of my heart for your help with this
              > great mission."
              >
              > From the bottom of your heart?
              > Can't you be more original than that?
              >
              > "PS If you want information on including
              > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
              > check the designated box on the donation
              > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
              >
              > Also, if you would like to make a donation
              > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
              > Donate to make a secure donation via the
              > Internet."
              >
              > "Learn to give, without ever
              > thinking of a reward. That's
              > how to find the treasures of
              > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
              >
              > Of course there are several problems
              > with the above quote. First, it's a
              > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
              > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
              > That's the way it's been set-up,
              > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
              > to follow the established rules.
              > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
              > which is promised and is dangled
              > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
              > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
              > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
              > It doesn't exist but if it did......
              > Klemp would be the last one to
              > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
              > designed for the masses will
              > never get you there (heaven) if
              > there is even such a "place" or
              > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
              > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
              trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
              the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
              suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
              >
              > prometheus wrote:
              >
              > Yes, more redundancy! After
              > almost twenty years of promising
              > "change" Klemp has finally
              > decided how he is going to
              > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
              > HK's not stepping down, but
              > there's always the hope that
              > he will... only to be dashed to
              > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
              > any case, here are some of the
              > incredible "program" changes
              > ready to take place to revitalize
              > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
              > and inherited religious scam:
              >
              > * New discourse format with audio
              > CD and dynamic workbook activities
              >
              > * Revitalized study program with
              > updated discourses in sequence for
              > chelas who have completed the first
              > seventeen years of ECK study
              >
              > * Family membership to include two
              > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
              > World
              >
              > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
              > be included with each membership
              > with children under 18
              >
              > * Easy membership donation options.
              > You may give as you are able. You can
              > now make monthly donations using a
              > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
              >
              > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
              > Whatever!!!
              >
              > Prometheus
            • noneckchains
              To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 25, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is considered some kind of golden wisdom. The eckist may actually believe that he is being a shifty Godman that is showing proof of no ego or some other absurd rationalization.

                Non ;)

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello Sharon and All,
                > Glad you are doing well as
                > are most of us who have left
                > the cult and the lies, delusions,
                > and codependency.
                >
                > Correct! These are the same
                > 17 discourses, except, they've
                > been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
                > and include a workbook and
                > a CD. Klemp can't come up
                > with anything better worth
                > saying which, obviously, proves
                > he's not what he claims.
                >
                > And, if one reads comments
                > and perspectives from the Dali
                > Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
                > masters you will see that Klemp
                > does not even come close to
                > these higher levels of intellect
                > or of consciousness.
                >
                > This is a problem for ECKists
                > since Klemp claims, as the
                > Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
                > Consciousness" on earth and
                > of all other Planes.
                >
                > Therefore, ECKists have to put
                > their blinders on and not read
                > other authors. Except, most
                > EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
                > and enjoy his perspectives of
                > god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
                > express himself more cleverly
                > and with more inspiration and
                > spirituality than Rumi had? This
                > is why EKists are in denial. They
                > have no choice, unless, they begin
                > to question why that huge elephant
                > is standing in the corner of the room.
                >
                > Really, Klemp can't even expand
                > upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
                > initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
                > since HK is incapable of being more
                > than his and PT's redundant and
                > borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
                > hindsights don't expect much from
                > these discourses. What ever happened
                > to prophecy? HK claims to be a
                > Modern Prophet but he never proves
                > it. This is one more thing that EKists
                > are in denial about.
                >
                > There's actually a long list of topics
                > that each ECkist must come to deny
                > and never question (out loud). After
                > awhile one simply accepts more and
                > more lies, distortions, promises,
                > assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
                > on "faith."
                >
                > The belief or faith is reinforced via
                > self-hypnotic suggestions and from
                > the talks and discourses which result
                > in "special" dreams. This self-
                > hypnosis via desires has EKists look
                > for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
                > Others experience what seems to
                > be paranormal activities as proof
                > of faith and see this as Higher
                > Consciousness expectation and
                > promise. Little do they understand
                > that Klemp had nothing to do with
                > their subjective awareness of their
                > mental inner/outer surroundings.
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > Sharon wrote:
                > Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
                > rearranged the order in which they send them out again?
                >
                > When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
                > forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
                > the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
                > "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
                > material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
                > warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
                > allowed to peek at them!
                >
                > Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
                > them in the files here and at eckankartruth.
                >
                > Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
                > about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
                > more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
                > except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
                > non-eckists who've needed new ones.
                >
                > Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
                > Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>
                >
                > Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
                > newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
                > takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
                > happy you woke up & got out!
                >
                > Think Snow, everyone!!
                >
                > Hugs,
                >
                > Sharon
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello Janice and All,
                > > Yes, Klemp states that:
                > > "Eckankar is taking a vital
                > > step to bring a new spiritual
                > > opportunity to you, your
                > > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
                > > seekers around the world."
                > >
                > > The New ECK Study Program
                > > (2013) is based upon a 1970
                > > quote from PT's first Shariyat
                > > and the borrowed dogma from
                > > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
                > > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
                > > as well as the Book of Mormon,
                > > et al.:
                > >
                > > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
                > > Audible Life Stream. The time
                > > is coming that will bring ECK
                > > to the world as a universal
                > > spiritual belief. Mankind will
                > > accept it. ECK will serve all
                > > races of people and all countries."
                > >
                > > Harold is "updating the presentation"
                > > of the ECK discourses and the
                > > ECK study program with a "greater
                > > current" of the Light and Sound
                > > of God. Really! I don't know how
                > > he's doing it... more words(?) or
                > > why he's waited so long but that's
                > > the talk.
                > >
                > > Here's more from Klemp's business
                > > partner and the President of Eckankar,
                > > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
                > > bodies are buried):
                > >
                > > "All available resources of time,
                > > energy, creativity, and finances
                > > are being put forth to support
                > > Sri Harold's vision for the future
                > > of the ECK teachings on earth."
                > >
                > > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
                > >
                > > "The costs are substantial, yet
                > > the spiritual benefits to mankind
                > > are beyond measure."
                > >
                > > That sound familiar too!
                > >
                > > I wonder if Peter and Harold
                > > will supply a financial report
                > > in order to show where all of
                > > these "costs" are going? LOL!
                > >
                > > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
                > > Eckankar has set an initial
                > > fund-raising goal for 2013
                > > of $3,000,000 to help support
                > > this program.
                > >
                > > Peter continues:
                > > "Will you lend your heart and
                > > hands to this great effort? Your
                > > gifts, in whatever amount, are
                > > truly appreciated. It will take
                > > each and every one of us to
                > > make it happen. You are the
                > > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
                > > You are a Co-worker with the
                > > Mahanta."
                > >
                > > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
                > > because we were never "Co-workers"
                > > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
                > > We were always "Underlings" versus
                > > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
                > > no equality! You work "For" the higher
                > > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
                > > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
                > > therefore, you are not peer to them.
                > > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
                > > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
                > > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
                > >
                > > Here's more:
                > > "Your gifts of love and service will
                > > help many others find their way home
                > > to God. I thank you from the bottom
                > > of my heart for your help with this
                > > great mission."
                > >
                > > From the bottom of your heart?
                > > Can't you be more original than that?
                > >
                > > "PS If you want information on including
                > > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
                > > check the designated box on the donation
                > > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
                > >
                > > Also, if you would like to make a donation
                > > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
                > > Donate to make a secure donation via the
                > > Internet."
                > >
                > > "Learn to give, without ever
                > > thinking of a reward. That's
                > > how to find the treasures of
                > > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
                > >
                > > Of course there are several problems
                > > with the above quote. First, it's a
                > > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
                > > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
                > > That's the way it's been set-up,
                > > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
                > > to follow the established rules.
                > > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
                > > which is promised and is dangled
                > > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
                > > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
                > > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
                > > It doesn't exist but if it did......
                > > Klemp would be the last one to
                > > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
                > > designed for the masses will
                > > never get you there (heaven) if
                > > there is even such a "place" or
                > > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                > > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
                > trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
                > the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
                > suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
                > >
                > > prometheus wrote:
                > >
                > > Yes, more redundancy! After
                > > almost twenty years of promising
                > > "change" Klemp has finally
                > > decided how he is going to
                > > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
                > > HK's not stepping down, but
                > > there's always the hope that
                > > he will... only to be dashed to
                > > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
                > > any case, here are some of the
                > > incredible "program" changes
                > > ready to take place to revitalize
                > > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
                > > and inherited religious scam:
                > >
                > > * New discourse format with audio
                > > CD and dynamic workbook activities
                > >
                > > * Revitalized study program with
                > > updated discourses in sequence for
                > > chelas who have completed the first
                > > seventeen years of ECK study
                > >
                > > * Family membership to include two
                > > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
                > > World
                > >
                > > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
                > > be included with each membership
                > > with children under 18
                > >
                > > * Easy membership donation options.
                > > You may give as you are able. You can
                > > now make monthly donations using a
                > > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
                > >
                > > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
                > > Whatever!!!
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                >
              • Janice Pfeiffer
                While I was in the org, whenever I heard HK speak, I felt like I had to slow down my hearing. my thinking and my feelings because he was so incredibly slow,
                Message 7 of 8 , Jul 26, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  While I was in the org, whenever I heard HK speak, I felt like I had to slow down my hearing. my thinking and my feelings because he was so incredibly slow, bland and unimaginative and every fiber of my being was aware of it.  I made continued pitiful attempts to say that my attitude was to blame and I needed to learn respect and appreciation for the LEM.  In fact, I beat myself up a lot because try though I might, I couldn't get past those ideas about HKs deficiencies.  I didn't talk about him at all while I tried to reconcile myself about the LEM. There was some pretty good stuff in all the books I read and so I just tried to stop myself from thinking about the obvious idiot who no one would dare call an idiot and who was touted as the most developed, the most powerful and the most remarkable individual living in physical form.  Today, I am proud to say that I have forgotten all about that ridiculous self denial and I am pleased to be able to say that I believe HK to border on being mentally challenged and most definitely, I feel his talks show blatant lack of inspiration and creativity.  I say these things with out malice but state I do have a need to express what I tried to deny as a good eckist.  I just couldn't get to the point of total disillusion as other good eckist and I could not get mesmerized by the power that this man was touted as having since it wasn't evidenced by his thoughts, words or deeds.   In fact, he showed blatant immaturity and so did a lot of the H.Is..  So I will simple say it now like I SEE it is.  Him who look and act like idiot, most likely is idiot. 

                  From: noneckchains <eckchains@...>
                  To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 1:32 AM
                  Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Eckankar Renews, Revitalizes, Revamps, Repeats, and Regurgitates
                   
                  To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is considered some kind of golden wisdom. The eckist may actually believe that he is being a shifty Godman that is showing proof of no ego or some other absurd rationalization.

                  Non ;)

                  --- In mailto:EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous%40yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello Sharon and All,
                  > Glad you are doing well as
                  > are most of us who have left
                  > the cult and the lies, delusions,
                  > and codependency.
                  >
                  > Correct! These are the same
                  > 17 discourses, except, they've
                  > been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
                  > and include a workbook and
                  > a CD. Klemp can't come up
                  > with anything better worth
                  > saying which, obviously, proves
                  > he's not what he claims.
                  >
                  > And, if one reads comments
                  > and perspectives from the Dali
                  > Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
                  > masters you will see that Klemp
                  > does not even come close to
                  > these higher levels of intellect
                  > or of consciousness.
                  >
                  > This is a problem for ECKists
                  > since Klemp claims, as the
                  > Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
                  > Consciousness" on earth and
                  > of all other Planes.
                  >
                  > Therefore, ECKists have to put
                  > their blinders on and not read
                  > other authors. Except, most
                  > EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
                  > and enjoy his perspectives of
                  > god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
                  > express himself more cleverly
                  > and with more inspiration and
                  > spirituality than Rumi had? This
                  > is why EKists are in denial. They
                  > have no choice, unless, they begin
                  > to question why that huge elephant
                  > is standing in the corner of the room.
                  >
                  > Really, Klemp can't even expand
                  > upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
                  > initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
                  > since HK is incapable of being more
                  > than his and PT's redundant and
                  > borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
                  > hindsights don't expect much from
                  > these discourses. What ever happened
                  > to prophecy? HK claims to be a
                  > Modern Prophet but he never proves
                  > it. This is one more thing that EKists
                  > are in denial about.
                  >
                  > There's actually a long list of topics
                  > that each ECkist must come to deny
                  > and never question (out loud). After
                  > awhile one simply accepts more and
                  > more lies, distortions, promises,
                  > assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
                  > on "faith."
                  >
                  > The belief or faith is reinforced via
                  > self-hypnotic suggestions and from
                  > the talks and discourses which result
                  > in "special" dreams. This self-
                  > hypnosis via desires has EKists look
                  > for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
                  > Others experience what seems to
                  > be paranormal activities as proof
                  > of faith and see this as Higher
                  > Consciousness expectation and
                  > promise. Little do they understand
                  > that Klemp had nothing to do with
                  > their subjective awareness of their
                  > mental inner/outer surroundings.
                  >
                  > Prometheus
                  >
                  > Sharon wrote:
                  > Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
                  > rearranged the order in which they send them out again?
                  >
                  > When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
                  > forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
                  > the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
                  > "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
                  > material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
                  > warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
                  > allowed to peek at them!
                  >
                  > Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
                  > them in the files here and at eckankartruth.
                  >
                  > Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
                  > about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
                  > more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
                  > except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
                  > non-eckists who've needed new ones.
                  >
                  > Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
                  > Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>
                  >
                  > Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
                  > newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
                  > takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
                  > happy you woke up & got out!
                  >
                  > Think Snow, everyone!!
                  >
                  > Hugs,
                  >
                  > Sharon
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello Janice and All,
                  > > Yes, Klemp states that:
                  > > "Eckankar is taking a vital
                  > > step to bring a new spiritual
                  > > opportunity to you, your
                  > > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
                  > > seekers around the world."
                  > >
                  > > The New ECK Study Program
                  > > (2013) is based upon a 1970
                  > > quote from PT's first Shariyat
                  > > and the borrowed dogma from
                  > > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
                  > > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
                  > > as well as the Book of Mormon,
                  > > et al.:
                  > >
                  > > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
                  > > Audible Life Stream. The time
                  > > is coming that will bring ECK
                  > > to the world as a universal
                  > > spiritual belief. Mankind will
                  > > accept it. ECK will serve all
                  > > races of people and all countries."
                  > >
                  > > Harold is "updating the presentation"
                  > > of the ECK discourses and the
                  > > ECK study program with a "greater
                  > > current" of the Light and Sound
                  > > of God. Really! I don't know how
                  > > he's doing it... more words(?) or
                  > > why he's waited so long but that's
                  > > the talk.
                  > >
                  > > Here's more from Klemp's business
                  > > partner and the President of Eckankar,
                  > > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
                  > > bodies are buried):
                  > >
                  > > "All available resources of time,
                  > > energy, creativity, and finances
                  > > are being put forth to support
                  > > Sri Harold's vision for the future
                  > > of the ECK teachings on earth."
                  > >
                  > > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
                  > >
                  > > "The costs are substantial, yet
                  > > the spiritual benefits to mankind
                  > > are beyond measure."
                  > >
                  > > That sound familiar too!
                  > >
                  > > I wonder if Peter and Harold
                  > > will supply a financial report
                  > > in order to show where all of
                  > > these "costs" are going? LOL!
                  > >
                  > > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
                  > > Eckankar has set an initial
                  > > fund-raising goal for 2013
                  > > of $3,000,000 to help support
                  > > this program.
                  > >
                  > > Peter continues:
                  > > "Will you lend your heart and
                  > > hands to this great effort? Your
                  > > gifts, in whatever amount, are
                  > > truly appreciated. It will take
                  > > each and every one of us to
                  > > make it happen. You are the
                  > > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
                  > > You are a Co-worker with the
                  > > Mahanta."
                  > >
                  > > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
                  > > because we were never "Co-workers"
                  > > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
                  > > We were always "Underlings" versus
                  > > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
                  > > no equality! You work "For" the higher
                  > > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
                  > > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
                  > > therefore, you are not peer to them.
                  > > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
                  > > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
                  > > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
                  > >
                  > > Here's more:
                  > > "Your gifts of love and service will
                  > > help many others find their way home
                  > > to God. I thank you from the bottom
                  > > of my heart for your help with this
                  > > great mission."
                  > >
                  > > From the bottom of your heart?
                  > > Can't you be more original than that?
                  > >
                  > > "PS If you want information on including
                  > > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
                  > > check the designated box on the donation
                  > > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
                  > >
                  > > Also, if you would like to make a donation
                  > > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
                  > > Donate to make a secure donation via the
                  > > Internet."
                  > >
                  > > "Learn to give, without ever
                  > > thinking of a reward. That's
                  > > how to find the treasures of
                  > > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
                  > >
                  > > Of course there are several problems
                  > > with the above quote. First, it's a
                  > > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
                  > > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
                  > > That's the way it's been set-up,
                  > > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
                  > > to follow the established rules.
                  > > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
                  > > which is promised and is dangled
                  > > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
                  > > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
                  > > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
                  > > It doesn't exist but if it did......
                  > > Klemp would be the last one to
                  > > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
                  > > designed for the masses will
                  > > never get you there (heaven) if
                  > > there is even such a "place" or
                  > > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                  > > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
                  > trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
                  > the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
                  > suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
                  > >
                  > > prometheus wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Yes, more redundancy! After
                  > > almost twenty years of promising
                  > > "change" Klemp has finally
                  > > decided how he is going to
                  > > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
                  > > HK's not stepping down, but
                  > > there's always the hope that
                  > > he will... only to be dashed to
                  > > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
                  > > any case, here are some of the
                  > > incredible "program" changes
                  > > ready to take place to revitalize
                  > > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
                  > > and inherited religious scam:
                  > >
                  > > * New discourse format with audio
                  > > CD and dynamic workbook activities
                  > >
                  > > * Revitalized study program with
                  > > updated discourses in sequence for
                  > > chelas who have completed the first
                  > > seventeen years of ECK study
                  > >
                  > > * Family membership to include two
                  > > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
                  > > World
                  > >
                  > > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
                  > > be included with each membership
                  > > with children under 18
                  > >
                  > > * Easy membership donation options.
                  > > You may give as you are able. You can
                  > > now make monthly donations using a
                  > > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
                  > >
                  > > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
                  > > Whatever!!!
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  >

                • prometheus_973
                  Hello Janice, Thanks for sharing your insights. I can relate to what you ve experienced. I always tried, like others, to buy into the whole spiel, about the
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jul 27, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hello Janice,
                    Thanks for sharing your
                    insights. I can relate to
                    what you've experienced.

                    I always tried, like others,
                    to buy into the whole spiel,
                    about the Mahanta, but there
                    were just too many holes in
                    the logic. I really tried and
                    at one time thought it was
                    me who was the problem.

                    However, I was an observer
                    and I looked and listened
                    closely to what the H.I.s
                    were doing and saying
                    (behind closed doors too).
                    It was schizophrenic and
                    hypocritical at best. Still,
                    they were 6ths and 7ths.
                    Why was that? To violate
                    the Four Zoas and yet the
                    Mahanta knew nothing
                    about it and would promote
                    them! The whole goal was
                    that next initiation, more
                    and more were needed
                    to reach that ultimate goal.

                    Eckankar became a second
                    job... in sales. And to be a
                    good salesman you have to
                    believe in the product.... or
                    at least make it sound like
                    you do. I could talk the talk
                    and I had plenty of phenomenal
                    experiences to walk the walk.

                    However, the real problem
                    was not sounding like every
                    one else in a New Age religion
                    or philosophy. One's described
                    "spiritual benefits" sounded
                    like every other religious
                    testimonial. This is why many
                    ECKists don't like reading
                    non-approved books, although,
                    many do. Most EKists don't
                    want to clutter their minds
                    with mental complexities.
                    Thus, simple minded books
                    on Animal Angels fulfills
                    their non-discourse needs.

                    Many H.I.s don't really buy
                    into Klemp's Guidelines or
                    his (and Twitchell's) exaggerated
                    description of the Mahanta's
                    abilities. After all, shouldn't
                    some of that "All Knowingness"
                    and Prophecy carryover into
                    the Physical? Klemp is a low
                    scale pretender who can only
                    get away with his act when
                    using it on those who have
                    already bought and drank
                    the kool-aid. They have
                    nothing else except for
                    Eckankar, their friends,
                    their hopes, everything
                    is illusion, especially, those
                    initiations. Thus, Eckankar
                    and it's dogma, ECK Masters,
                    etc. is all fictional.

                    I wonder how EKists justify
                    having a Garden of Eden
                    (see Polarians) with Adom
                    and Ede... another letter
                    switch around, addition
                    and omission used by PT.
                    ECKists have laughed at
                    Christians for believing
                    in a Garden of Eden when,
                    if they'd read and pay attention,
                    would see that Eckankar had
                    one as well.... the same one!

                    Prometheus







                    Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                    While I was in the org, whenever I heard HK speak, I felt like I had to slow down my hearing. my thinking and my feelings because he was so incredibly slow, bland and unimaginative and every fiber of my being was aware of it. I made continued pitiful attempts to say that my attitude was to blame and I needed to learn respect and appreciation for the LEM. In fact, I beat myself up a lot because try though I might, I couldn't get past those ideas about HKs deficiencies. I didn't talk about him at all while I tried to reconcile myself about the LEM. There was some pretty good stuff in all the books I read and so I just tried to stop myself from thinking about the obvious idiot who no one would dare call an idiot and who was touted as the most developed, the most powerful and the most remarkable individual living in physical form. Today, I am proud to say that I have forgotten all about that ridiculous self denial and I am pleased to be able to say that I believe HK to border on being mentally challenged and most definitely, I feel his talks show blatant lack of inspiration and creativity. I say these things with out malice but state I do have a need to express what I tried to deny as a good eckist. I just couldn't get to the point of total disillusion as other good eckist and I could not get mesmerized by the power that this man was touted as having since it wasn't evidenced by his thoughts, words or deeds. In fact, he showed blatant immaturity and so did a lot of the H.Is.. So I will simple say it now like I SEE it is. Him who look and act like idiot, most likely is idiot.

                    eckchains wrote:


                    To those who actually want to believe that klemp is the highest state of consciousness, well anything that he utters, no matter how inane or outright dumb, is considered some kind of golden wisdom. The eckist may actually believe that he is being a shifty Godman that is showing proof of no ego or some other absurd rationalization.

                    Non ;)

                    prometheus wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Sharon and All,
                    > Glad you are doing well as
                    > are most of us who have left
                    > the cult and the lies, delusions,
                    > and codependency.
                    >
                    > Correct! These are the same
                    > 17 discourses, except, they've
                    > been tweaked (edited), repackaged,
                    > and include a workbook and
                    > a CD. Klemp can't come up
                    > with anything better worth
                    > saying which, obviously, proves
                    > he's not what he claims.
                    >
                    > And, if one reads comments
                    > and perspectives from the Dali
                    > Lama or a host of other "spiritual"
                    > masters you will see that Klemp
                    > does not even come close to
                    > these higher levels of intellect
                    > or of consciousness.
                    >
                    > This is a problem for ECKists
                    > since Klemp claims, as the
                    > Mahanta, to be of the "Highest
                    > Consciousness" on earth and
                    > of all other Planes.
                    >
                    > Therefore, ECKists have to put
                    > their blinders on and not read
                    > other authors. Except, most
                    > EKists do read Rumi (a Muslim)
                    > and enjoy his perspectives of
                    > god/spirit. Why, then, can't Klemp
                    > express himself more cleverly
                    > and with more inspiration and
                    > spirituality than Rumi had? This
                    > is why EKists are in denial. They
                    > have no choice, unless, they begin
                    > to question why that huge elephant
                    > is standing in the corner of the room.
                    >
                    > Really, Klemp can't even expand
                    > upon the words of Rumi or of 2nd
                    > initiate Jesus or the Buddha. And,
                    > since HK is incapable of being more
                    > than his and PT's redundant and
                    > borrowed (past) thoughts and 20/20
                    > hindsights don't expect much from
                    > these discourses. What ever happened
                    > to prophecy? HK claims to be a
                    > Modern Prophet but he never proves
                    > it. This is one more thing that EKists
                    > are in denial about.
                    >
                    > There's actually a long list of topics
                    > that each ECkist must come to deny
                    > and never question (out loud). After
                    > awhile one simply accepts more and
                    > more lies, distortions, promises,
                    > assumptions, and hearsay testimonials
                    > on "faith."
                    >
                    > The belief or faith is reinforced via
                    > self-hypnotic suggestions and from
                    > the talks and discourses which result
                    > in "special" dreams. This self-
                    > hypnosis via desires has EKists look
                    > for "signs" to reenforce their faith.
                    > Others experience what seems to
                    > be paranormal activities as proof
                    > of faith and see this as Higher
                    > Consciousness expectation and
                    > promise. Little do they understand
                    > that Klemp had nothing to do with
                    > their subjective awareness of their
                    > mental inner/outer surroundings.
                    >
                    > Prometheus
                    >
                    > Sharon wrote:
                    > Ha, I bet the "new" study program is the same old, same old - maybe they've just
                    > rearranged the order in which they send them out again?
                    >
                    > When I first joined, I couldn't wait to get those "higher" discourses, looked
                    > forward to learning all those great spirichul secruds they promised - except as
                    > the years went on, they changed the order of the discourses around so formerly
                    > "high" ones were sent a lot sooner, and I eventually learned that a lot of the
                    > material was already in the "public" books - so much for those promises, and the
                    > warnings about how the profane non-eckist would self-destruct if they were
                    > allowed to peek at them!
                    >
                    > Hey, if anyone's got the new stuff, hope they'll make them public, scan & post
                    > them in the files here and at eckankartruth.
                    >
                    > Looking back - I've been out since '98 - in spite of all those death-threats
                    > about what happens when one leaves, I'd have to say the worst thing is I've got
                    > more hairs on my chin than I did back then. <gg> And the usual arthritis -
                    > except the hips & knees are mostly just fine, altho I know quite a few
                    > non-eckists who've needed new ones.
                    >
                    > Otherwise, my life is totally awesomely wonderful and I couldn't be happier!!
                    > Well, except I wish I was younger again. <sigh>
                    >
                    > Anyway - hi everyone!!!! Hope life is treating everyone well - and for any
                    > newbie exes out there, yeah it's a bit rough at first but hang in there, it
                    > takes a little time to wash the eck-crud out, but OMG you are going to be SO
                    > happy you woke up & got out!
                    >
                    > Think Snow, everyone!!
                    >
                    > Hugs,
                    >
                    > Sharon
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hello Janice and All,
                    > > Yes, Klemp states that:
                    > > "Eckankar is taking a vital
                    > > step to bring a new spiritual
                    > > opportunity to you, your
                    > > fellow Eckists, and spiritual
                    > > seekers around the world."
                    > >
                    > > The New ECK Study Program
                    > > (2013) is based upon a 1970
                    > > quote from PT's first Shariyat
                    > > and the borrowed dogma from
                    > > Sant Mat and a similar prophecy
                    > > from the Judeo-Christian Bible
                    > > as well as the Book of Mormon,
                    > > et al.:
                    > >
                    > > "ECK [Spirit] is life itself, the
                    > > Audible Life Stream. The time
                    > > is coming that will bring ECK
                    > > to the world as a universal
                    > > spiritual belief. Mankind will
                    > > accept it. ECK will serve all
                    > > races of people and all countries."
                    > >
                    > > Harold is "updating the presentation"
                    > > of the ECK discourses and the
                    > > ECK study program with a "greater
                    > > current" of the Light and Sound
                    > > of God. Really! I don't know how
                    > > he's doing it... more words(?) or
                    > > why he's waited so long but that's
                    > > the talk.
                    > >
                    > > Here's more from Klemp's business
                    > > partner and the President of Eckankar,
                    > > Peter Skelskey (he knows where the
                    > > bodies are buried):
                    > >
                    > > "All available resources of time,
                    > > energy, creativity, and finances
                    > > are being put forth to support
                    > > Sri Harold's vision for the future
                    > > of the ECK teachings on earth."
                    > >
                    > > Wow! That sounds oddly familiar.
                    > >
                    > > "The costs are substantial, yet
                    > > the spiritual benefits to mankind
                    > > are beyond measure."
                    > >
                    > > That sound familiar too!
                    > >
                    > > I wonder if Peter and Harold
                    > > will supply a financial report
                    > > in order to show where all of
                    > > these "costs" are going? LOL!
                    > >
                    > > ECK Mission Fund Goal -
                    > > Eckankar has set an initial
                    > > fund-raising goal for 2013
                    > > of $3,000,000 to help support
                    > > this program.
                    > >
                    > > Peter continues:
                    > > "Will you lend your heart and
                    > > hands to this great effort? Your
                    > > gifts, in whatever amount, are
                    > > truly appreciated. It will take
                    > > each and every one of us to
                    > > make it happen. You are the
                    > > heart and soul of the ECK mission.
                    > > You are a Co-worker with the
                    > > Mahanta."
                    > >
                    > > See, now we all know that's Bullshit
                    > > because we were never "Co-workers"
                    > > "with" Sugmad or with the Mahanta.
                    > > We were always "Underlings" versus
                    > > Co-workers. It's a hierarchy! There's
                    > > no equality! You work "For" the higher
                    > > ups and not "with" the higher ups.
                    > > You are evaluated by the higher ups,
                    > > therefore, you are not peer to them.
                    > > There is only the facade of Soul=Soul
                    > > and of being a "Co-worker." It's
                    > > double-talk, and smoke and mirrors.
                    > >
                    > > Here's more:
                    > > "Your gifts of love and service will
                    > > help many others find their way home
                    > > to God. I thank you from the bottom
                    > > of my heart for your help with this
                    > > great mission."
                    > >
                    > > From the bottom of your heart?
                    > > Can't you be more original than that?
                    > >
                    > > "PS If you want information on including
                    > > Eckankar in your will or estate plans,
                    > > check the designated box on the donation
                    > > form and return it in the enclosed envelope.
                    > >
                    > > Also, if you would like to make a donation
                    > > via the Eckankar website, visit xxxxxxxxx/
                    > > Donate to make a secure donation via the
                    > > Internet."
                    > >
                    > > "Learn to give, without ever
                    > > thinking of a reward. That's
                    > > how to find the treasures of
                    > > heaven." --Sri HK The Language of Soul
                    > >
                    > > Of course there are several problems
                    > > with the above quote. First, it's a
                    > > lie. Next, Eckists expect and are
                    > > owed rewards via outer Initiations.
                    > > That's the way it's been set-up,
                    > > except, Klemp (a narcissist) refuses
                    > > to follow the established rules.
                    > > And, let's talk about this "heaven"
                    > > which is promised and is dangled
                    > > like a carrot in lieu of higher initiations.
                    > > Define this "heaven?" Where or what
                    > > is it? What "level?" It's just words!
                    > > It doesn't exist but if it did......
                    > > Klemp would be the last one to
                    > > know! Plus, Religious Dogma
                    > > designed for the masses will
                    > > never get you there (heaven) if
                    > > there is even such a "place" or
                    > > state. Isn't this obvious by now?!
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
                    > >
                    > > Janice Pfeiffer wrote:
                    > > Oh wow, that sounds like more money in dues since every now and then a guilt
                    > trip will be laid on everybody to give and give some more to spread the word of
                    > the Eck especially since they haven't been very successful in dragging in more
                    > suckers. Hey, somebody has got to pay!
                    > >
                    > > prometheus wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Yes, more redundancy! After
                    > > almost twenty years of promising
                    > > "change" Klemp has finally
                    > > decided how he is going to
                    > > accomplish this. Unfortunately,
                    > > HK's not stepping down, but
                    > > there's always the hope that
                    > > he will... only to be dashed to
                    > > pieces after every Oct. 22. In
                    > > any case, here are some of the
                    > > incredible "program" changes
                    > > ready to take place to revitalize
                    > > a dying, stagnant, insignificant
                    > > and inherited religious scam:
                    > >
                    > > * New discourse format with audio
                    > > CD and dynamic workbook activities
                    > >
                    > > * Revitalized study program with
                    > > updated discourses in sequence for
                    > > chelas who have completed the first
                    > > seventeen years of ECK study
                    > >
                    > > * Family membership to include two
                    > > discourses and two copies of the Mystic
                    > > World
                    > >
                    > > * Letter of Light youth newsletter to
                    > > be included with each membership
                    > > with children under 18
                    > >
                    > > * Easy membership donation options.
                    > > You may give as you are able. You can
                    > > now make monthly donations using a
                    > > credit card in the amount of your choosing.
                    > >
                    > > See! What a change! What a revitalization!
                    > > Whatever!!!
                    > >
                    > > Prometheus
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