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Re: Fw: Ho Hum, Another Cult and Clone of Eckankar

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Etznab and All, Yes, Klemp needed to have a spiritual name since PT s was Peddar Zaskq and DG s was Dap Ren. Thus, in one of their meetings in the
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 9, 2013
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      Hello Etznab and All,
      Yes, Klemp needed to
      have a "spiritual" name
      since PT's was Peddar
      Zaskq and DG's was
      Dap Ren. Thus, in
      one of their meetings
      in the Sound Proof
      Dark Room where
      Klemp worked at the
      ESC did Darwin ask
      about what Harold
      had come up with.

      BTW- All of this is
      in the 1987 "Soul
      Travelers of the Far
      Country" by Harold
      Klemp. It's no wonder
      Klemp stopped printing
      this book it's full of
      misspeaks for someone
      supposedly "enlightened."
      Chapter 7 is full of
      goodies. Here's an
      example on page 148
      and note that Klemp
      was an 8th initiate
      in 1980 (MY CAPS):

      "In any case, this family
      crisis forced me to take
      a long hard look at the
      meaning of detachment.
      Was it really fear of living
      that caused me to DESIRE
      a detached life? IF I felt
      compassion for my brother,
      would that open my inner
      bodies for taking on his
      karma? After all, he made
      the karma that produced
      his sickness. Why should
      I take a chance and get
      it, too? What person in
      his right mind would involve
      himself in something as
      deadly as cancer?"

      Klemp, then, in 1987 as
      a 12th initiate added this
      perspective: "The real issue
      turned out to be not detachment
      at all, but surrender."

      Okay, let's get back to the
      original issue... How did
      Klemp get his spiritual
      name? For this we have
      to look at Chapter 10
      pages 202-203. Gross
      asked Klemp on Oct. 9th
      (1981) if he knew his spiritual
      name.

      "Later that afternoon,
      the Living ECK Master
      dropped by again. In the
      darkroom, he asked, 'Do
      you know your spiritual
      name?' 'Yes,' I said 'Z!'
      'What?'..... 'How about
      Wah Z?'"

      "The added syllable
      meant the Inner Master
      working with initiates in
      a particular way on the
      spiritual planes. Z, or
      Wah Z, means the Secret
      Doctrine."

      Of course, that last part
      was added later for this
      book.

      Prometheus



      etznab wrote:
      About this subject, there were rods back in Biblical days. And before
      that, in Egypt. I remember the story of Moses and Pharaoh casting their
      rods on the ground and one consuming the other (something like that).
      So, evidently, people believed in the power of rods. They are in movies
      like Lord of the Rings and other stories.

      Back in Biblical times (and before) I suspect a rod (in the form of a
      shepherd's crook) had some practical applications (like rescuing
      livestock from a river). And in highland and mountain areas maybe it
      was used as a walking stick.

      By the time of the Egyptian Pharaoh's a number of different staffs had
      developed. One of them was called the "was" scepter

      "Was sceptres were used as symbols of power or dominion, and were
      associated with the gods (such as Set or Anubis)[1] as well as with the
      pharaoh. Was sceptres also represent the Typhonic beast or Set-animal
      (the mascot of the Egyptian god Set). In later use, it was a symbol of
      control over the force of chaos that Set represented."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was

      The spiritual name for the current leader of Eckankar is (curiously, I
      believe) Wah Z. I'm not sure how that name came about, but remember
      some story about Darwin pronouncing the word wahhh and asking Harold if
      he knew the rest of it. Does anybody recall a story like that? Where
      Darwin helped to give Harold his spiritual name?

      At any rate, it seems that the "Rod of Power" paradigm (even outside of
      Eckankar myth) has been around for ages. I imagine it's possible that
      the founder of Eckankar probably read about it too. However, Rebazar
      Tarzs is said to be the "torchbearer" for Eckankar, but much of his
      words seem to read like pages from out of books. Books known by Paul
      Twitchell, the founder!

      Maybe someday I can look at earlier Eckankar texts that mention "Rod of
      Power" & see whether any of that story was paraphrased, or plagiarized
      from another source.



      Ho Hum, Another Cult and
      Clone of Eckankar


      Ah, yes, more nonsense. This is a case of jumping out of the fire and
      into the frying pan. Let's be blunt. There is no rod of power. There is
      no rod of anything. It's all just bullshit. If you need the delusion
      then have a great time with it. But it's such a ridiculous, unprovable
      and absurd idea that I don't know where to begin.

      The mind is a creative tool. It's capable of invention as well as
      belief in invention. This is how god was created. Or, to be more
      accurate, gods in the plural. The idea of a rod is merely another way
      of saying spirit. But it's built on very flimsy circumstantial evidence.
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab, I was wondering if you had seen this? And, wanted to ask if you had this book? Earlier books, like this, point out the flaws in Klemp s thinking
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 10, 2013
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        Hello Etznab,
        I was wondering if
        you had seen this?
        And, wanted to ask
        if you had this book?
        Earlier books, like
        this, point out the
        flaws in Klemp's
        thinking processes
        as a H.I. in the same
        way Twitchell's earlier
        books point out his
        flaws and lies. it's
        interesting to see
        how HK uses the
        20/20 hindsight
        approach in his
        writings and gets
        away with it.

        Prometheus



        Prometheus wrote:
        Hello Etznab and All,
        Yes, Klemp needed to
        have a "spiritual" name
        since PT's was Peddar
        Zaskq and DG's was
        Dap Ren. Thus, in
        one of their meetings
        in the Sound Proof
        Dark Room where
        Klemp worked at the
        ESC did Darwin ask
        about what Harold
        had come up with.

        BTW- All of this is
        in the 1987 "Soul
        Travelers of the Far
        Country" by Harold
        Klemp. It's no wonder
        Klemp stopped printing
        this book it's full of
        misspeaks for someone
        supposedly "enlightened."
        Chapter 7 is full of
        goodies. Here's an
        example on page 148
        and note that Klemp
        was an 8th initiate
        in 1980 (MY CAPS):

        "In any case, this family
        crisis forced me to take
        a long hard look at the
        meaning of detachment.
        Was it really fear of living
        that caused me to DESIRE
        a detached life? IF I felt
        compassion for my brother,
        would that open my inner
        bodies for taking on his
        karma? After all, he made
        the karma that produced
        his sickness. Why should
        I take a chance and get
        it, too? What person in
        his right mind would involve
        himself in something as
        deadly as cancer?"

        Klemp, then, in 1987 as
        a 12th initiate added this
        perspective: "The real issue
        turned out to be not detachment
        at all, but surrender."

        Okay, let's get back to the
        original issue... How did
        Klemp get his spiritual
        name? For this we have
        to look at Chapter 10
        pages 202-203. Gross
        asked Klemp on Oct. 9th
        (1981) if he knew his spiritual
        name.

        "Later that afternoon,
        the Living ECK Master
        dropped by again. In the
        darkroom, he asked, 'Do
        you know your spiritual
        name?' 'Yes,' I said 'Z!'
        'What?'..... 'How about
        Wah Z?'"

        "The added syllable
        meant the Inner Master
        working with initiates in
        a particular way on the
        spiritual planes. Z, or
        Wah Z, means the Secret
        Doctrine."

        Of course, that last part
        was added later for this
        book.

        Prometheus



        etznab wrote:
        About this subject, there were rods back in Biblical days. And before
        that, in Egypt. I remember the story of Moses and Pharaoh casting their
        rods on the ground and one consuming the other (something like that).
        So, evidently, people believed in the power of rods. They are in movies
        like Lord of the Rings and other stories.

        Back in Biblical times (and before) I suspect a rod (in the form of a
        shepherd's crook) had some practical applications (like rescuing
        livestock from a river). And in highland and mountain areas maybe it
        was used as a walking stick.

        By the time of the Egyptian Pharaoh's a number of different staffs had
        developed. One of them was called the "was" scepter

        "Was sceptres were used as symbols of power or dominion, and were
        associated with the gods (such as Set or Anubis)[1] as well as with the
        pharaoh. Was sceptres also represent the Typhonic beast or Set-animal
        (the mascot of the Egyptian god Set). In later use, it was a symbol of
        control over the force of chaos that Set represented."

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was

        The spiritual name for the current leader of Eckankar is (curiously, I
        believe) Wah Z. I'm not sure how that name came about, but remember
        some story about Darwin pronouncing the word wahhh and asking Harold if
        he knew the rest of it. Does anybody recall a story like that? Where
        Darwin helped to give Harold his spiritual name?

        At any rate, it seems that the "Rod of Power" paradigm (even outside of
        Eckankar myth) has been around for ages. I imagine it's possible that
        the founder of Eckankar probably read about it too. However, Rebazar
        Tarzs is said to be the "torchbearer" for Eckankar, but much of his
        words seem to read like pages from out of books. Books known by Paul
        Twitchell, the founder!

        Maybe someday I can look at earlier Eckankar texts that mention "Rod of
        Power" & see whether any of that story was paraphrased, or plagiarized
        from another source.



        Ho Hum, Another Cult and
        Clone of Eckankar


        Ah, yes, more nonsense. This is a case of jumping out of the fire and
        into the frying pan. Let's be blunt. There is no rod of power. There is
        no rod of anything. It's all just bullshit. If you need the delusion
        then have a great time with it. But it's such a ridiculous, unprovable
        and absurd idea that I don't know where to begin.

        The mind is a creative tool. It's capable of invention as well as
        belief in invention. This is how god was created. Or, to be more
        accurate, gods in the plural. The idea of a rod is merely another way
        of saying spirit. But it's built on very flimsy circumstantial evidence.
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