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Re: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Fw: Ho Hum, Another Cult and Clone of Eckankar

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  • etznab18
    About this subject, there were rods back in Biblical days. And before that, in Egypt. I remember the story of Moses and Pharaoh casting their rods on the
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 9, 2013
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      About this subject, there were rods back in Biblical days. And before
      that, in Egypt. I remember the story of Moses and Pharaoh casting their
      rods on the ground and one consuming the other (something like that).
      So, evidently, people believed in the power of rods. They are in movies
      like Lord of the Rings and other stories.

      Back in Biblical times (and before) I suspect a rod (in the form of a
      shepherd's crook) had some practical applications (like rescuing
      livestock from a river). And in highland and mountain areas maybe it
      was used as a walking stick.

      By the time of the Egyptian Pharaoh's a number of different staffs had
      developed. One of them was called the "was" scepter

      "Was sceptres were used as symbols of power or dominion, and were
      associated with the gods (such as Set or Anubis)[1] as well as with the
      pharaoh. Was sceptres also represent the Typhonic beast or Set-animal
      (the mascot of the Egyptian god Set). In later use, it was a symbol of
      control over the force of chaos that Set represented."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was

      The spiritual name for the current leader of Eckankar is (curiously, I
      believe) Wah Z. I'm not sure how that name came about, but remember
      some story about Darwin pronouncing the word wahhh and asking Harold if
      he knew the rest of it. Does anybody recall a story like that? Where
      Darwin helped to give Harold his spiritual name?

      At any rate, it seems that the "Rod of Power" paradigm (even outside of
      Eckankar myth) has been around for ages. I imagine it's possible that
      the founder of Eckankar probably read about it too. However, Rebazar
      Tarzs is said to be the "torchbearer" for Eckankar, but much of his
      words seem to read like pages from out of books. Books known by Paul
      Twitchell, the founder!

      Maybe someday I can look at earlier Eckankar texts that mention "Rod of
      Power" & see whether any of that story was paraphrased, or plagiarized
      from another source.



      -----Original Message-----
      From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
      To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
      <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Tue, Apr 9, 2013 2:48 am
      Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Fw: Ho Hum, Another Cult and
      Clone of Eckankar

       
      Ah, yes, more nonsense. This is a case of jumping out of the fire and
      into the frying pan. Let's be blunt. There is no rod of power. There is
      no rod of anything. It's all just bullshit. If you need the delusion
      then have a great time with it. But it's such a ridiculous, unprovable
      and absurd idea that I don't know where to begin.

      The mind is a creative tool. It's capable of invention as well as
      belief in invention. This is how god was created. Or, to be more
      accurate, gods in the plural. The idea of a rod is merely another way
      of saying spirit. But it's built on very flimsy circumstantial evidence.

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Gnothe Seauton
      <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Forwarded Message -----
      > From: mariola_kbf <mariola_kbf@...>
      > To: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      > Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 6:47 AM
      > Subject: Re: Ho Hum, Another Cult and Clone of Eckankar
      >
      >
      > I am not an advocate for either of these Spiritual Paths...the rod
      of power has passed from one movement to another time and time again.
      It appears Spirit has it's own selection committee outside of our
      organisations and their claims to fame. Yes twichell was a Living LOGOS
      Master upon the lineage, so was Baba Sawan Singh Ji who belongs to Sant
      Mat Spiritual Movement. My point is, that it was the individual and not
      the movement. This has since changed - no longer will the rod of power
      pass from movement to movement. It will remain now and until
      dissolution of the Physical Universe - within the Spiritual Movement of
      LOGOS-IBbala Malende. I expect this will not sit well with Spiritual
      Movements the world over, however their feelings are of little
      consequence. The Lord Eagle is one of 5 in the Father Lineage above the
      Son Lineage we speak of. It was The Nameless One, Helios, Aton,
      Maitreya and recently the Lord Eagle - also called LOGOSOGO. The
      movement
      > here/physically has little form and infrastructure...there is
      however a website www.logos-im.org.za The crux lies in the Rod of Power
      - again of the "Living Master" Currently Suntre Boewel. There is so
      much truth in these Spiritual Movements granted, but there is only one
      rod of power, which only recently has come to rest. This movement
      "LOGOS" is founded via the "Father". In the past there was the Father
      Sun, then the Father Christ....now the Father LOGOS. So in this case
      the Father LOGOS has founded the movement hence the longevity and
      certainty that the Rod of Power is fixed within the movement henceforth.
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
      "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > This was taken from their
      > > site. Notice the similarities
      > > to Eckankar. And, they even
      > > mention Eckankar!
      > >
      > > Their Mahaji is a 14th initiate!
      > > And this guy is the 973rd
      > > Living ___ Master. I guess
      > > nobody told him that the
      > > previous 972 either didn't
      > > exist, or were stolen from
      > > other religions. Actually, he
      > > probably knows these previous
      > > "masters" don't exist and
      > > that Twitchell was a wannabe
      > > fraud like this guy and Klemp
      > > are emulating in order to
      > > sell their wares!
      > >
      > > *********
      > > About Sri Kahtifji The Mahaji the Living SRAOSHA Master.
      > >
      > > The Living SRAOSHA Master is the titular leader of AKATHA. He
      (always a man as of physical vibratory rate â€" a scientific factor and
      not a social idea of male or female) is at least a Twelfth Plane
      Initiate (the title Mahaji has two meanings â€" synonymous with the
      Living SRAOSHA Master who is a 14th Initiate or higher and a fourteenth
      initiate as well). He receives in Soul Body (Spirit Body), what is
      known as the Yastiprabhava (Rod of Power â€" centralised vibratory
      spiritual power from God sometimes known as the "quickening,
      polarisation, godhood, etc."  He is not God ITSELF but like any Soul
      just a spark of  God. Still the Living SRAOSHA Master is the central
      or highest developed spark of Soul as the leader of AKATHA.) in the
      Valley of Shangta at the Oracle of Tirmir in India. Only one can exist
      at a time.
      > >
      > >  I, Sri Kahtifji (Sri Timothy Arnold [sobriquet of Sri
      Tirkahtif ra-Zah]), presently represents the 973rd Living SRAOSHA
      Master with the lineage starting with Rama at midnight on October 22,
      3100 B.C. (Before the Common era). On that date marked the beginning of
      the Iron Age or the Kali Yuga. Since a new era started then, it was
      easy to mark the beginning of the lineage (older masters are called
      "Ancient Masters") albeit no end exists to the lineage as it goes on
      forever as long as the lower worlds (see God Worlds chart) exist. Still
      beginning points are earmarked in history as of convenience in time and
      space. We can still write a list of masters in a lineage book that will
      not be too long. The title is given to the lineage of AKATHA Leaders
      down through history.
      > >
      > > The AKATHA lineage is the longest unbroken line of spiritual
      masters in the universe that teaches the principles of the ancient
      science of Sahaji. The name has been different at times, e.g., Eckankar
      from 1965 to 1971, Kabav from 1500 to 1518, and Melvev in the 13th
      Century. AKATHA has been public this time since 1988. The tenure of the
      Master varies like the path itself wherein the length of mastery tenure
      has been from 226 years to two days. Hence, one can see quite a range
      here. The important point remains that the Living Master is a temporary
      position and not one man forever, taking away the idea of dictatorship.
      Also, it explains the messiah or savant complexes are, in reality, just
      hero worship or a god complex for a time and a dictatorship absolutely.
      Presently, we have the same occurrence taking place in the new age
      movements with self-styled savants making a claim for god-ship
      expecting the public to proclaim them. The temporary tenure of the
      > Living SRAOSHA Master shows no permanent leadership by one man
      giving a relief to the student. The Master emphasizes this point often
      making sure the students understand thoroughly especially when the
      tenure is long. I have been master as of this writing for 23 years and
      as it gets longer emphasize the fact of the lineage quite often
      reinforcing the fact of non-dictatorship by one person.
      > >
      > > The purpose, prime directive or mission directly from AKSHAR
      of the Living SRAOSHA Master is nothing more than to take the ready
      Soul back to God or at least the Fifth plane of Sat Lok (shown on the
      God Worlds of AKATHA chart on this website). The purpose has always
      been and always will be in finding the ready Soul as the true
      Bodhisattva (One who sees and experiences God-Realization and returns
      to guide others back to IT). The Rod of Power explained in the previous
      paragraph gives the Master the ability to guide the ready Soul into the
      Higher Planes. The Master's experience of itself affords the ready one
      an expert guidance for travelling in Sahaji. Of course, the training of
      this inner and outer master has taken many lifetimes to achieve
      culminating in the Rod of Power reception. As of this long training and
      after the Rod of Power is transferred to this Master, the Living
      SRAOSHA Master, the chela or student can now avail himself of this
      special
      > experiential teaching expertise. Thus, AKATHA reveals that the
      experienced Master having been to the highest planes of the God Worlds
      of AKATHA can also guide his students there as well. Thereby, the truth
      seeker who has always yearned for God from the very beginning remembers
      through the Mahaji, the Living SRAOSHA Master what he or she has lost.
      > >
      > > Furthermore, I am 61 years old, born on July 20th 1950 in
      Metz, France (Germany before WWII). I am considered Prussian insofar as
      the family was descended fairly recently from Prussian royalty, the von
      Brauchitsch Bauer-Rothschilds. Being raised in the America's Midwest,
      the family was hidden away as of the problems with the early 20th
      Century Third Reich in Germany. The family was moved after the Weimer
      Regime collapsed in 1927, but my mother returned in the late 30's
      attempting to right things there with the estate. She met my father
      ,then a third cousin Bauer-Rothschild. They married and moved back to
      the states in 1951. Having spent my first year as an infant in Europe
      helped my conditioning for America being more subjective to the recent
      problems here. Drugs and loud music have infiltrated it severely with
      the only hope I believe is the music that AKATHA creates at Its
      seminars.
      > >
      > > Moreover, my first few years of life were plagued with not
      understanding myself being raised as a Catholic. It is true that the
      Catholic faith is wholesome regarding their ten commandments and pure
      living and speech. However, a lot was to be desired for me not
      distinguishing specifically  the essence of man as Soul until I met
      Paul Twitchell who appeared to me nightly in his Atma Sarup body in
      Sahaji or Soul Travel, the out-of-body projection. He appeared to me
      for most of two years starting in 1965 whilst I did not know who he was
      until seeing his picture on the cover of one of his books in 1971. By
      then he had passed onto his new job as Guardian of the Kazi Dawtz
      AKATHA Temple of Golden Wisdom on the Ninth Plane. Paulji (name of
      endearment) taught me the teachings of AKATHA then known as Eckankar. I
      became an Eckist in 1972, a few months after Paulji's translation
      (death). In his Atma Sarup or Soul Body appearance those few years
      before, he reminded
      > me of my training for leadership of the path. Peddar Zaskq
      (Paulji's spiritual name) predicted my mastership and leadership of
      AKATHA in his "Illuminated Way Letters" of January 1971. Thus, in 1988,
      I became the Mahaji, the 973rd Living SRAOSHA Master and brought AKATHA
      public to the world.
      > >
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Etznab and All, Yes, Klemp needed to have a spiritual name since PT s was Peddar Zaskq and DG s was Dap Ren. Thus, in one of their meetings in the
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 9, 2013
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        Hello Etznab and All,
        Yes, Klemp needed to
        have a "spiritual" name
        since PT's was Peddar
        Zaskq and DG's was
        Dap Ren. Thus, in
        one of their meetings
        in the Sound Proof
        Dark Room where
        Klemp worked at the
        ESC did Darwin ask
        about what Harold
        had come up with.

        BTW- All of this is
        in the 1987 "Soul
        Travelers of the Far
        Country" by Harold
        Klemp. It's no wonder
        Klemp stopped printing
        this book it's full of
        misspeaks for someone
        supposedly "enlightened."
        Chapter 7 is full of
        goodies. Here's an
        example on page 148
        and note that Klemp
        was an 8th initiate
        in 1980 (MY CAPS):

        "In any case, this family
        crisis forced me to take
        a long hard look at the
        meaning of detachment.
        Was it really fear of living
        that caused me to DESIRE
        a detached life? IF I felt
        compassion for my brother,
        would that open my inner
        bodies for taking on his
        karma? After all, he made
        the karma that produced
        his sickness. Why should
        I take a chance and get
        it, too? What person in
        his right mind would involve
        himself in something as
        deadly as cancer?"

        Klemp, then, in 1987 as
        a 12th initiate added this
        perspective: "The real issue
        turned out to be not detachment
        at all, but surrender."

        Okay, let's get back to the
        original issue... How did
        Klemp get his spiritual
        name? For this we have
        to look at Chapter 10
        pages 202-203. Gross
        asked Klemp on Oct. 9th
        (1981) if he knew his spiritual
        name.

        "Later that afternoon,
        the Living ECK Master
        dropped by again. In the
        darkroom, he asked, 'Do
        you know your spiritual
        name?' 'Yes,' I said 'Z!'
        'What?'..... 'How about
        Wah Z?'"

        "The added syllable
        meant the Inner Master
        working with initiates in
        a particular way on the
        spiritual planes. Z, or
        Wah Z, means the Secret
        Doctrine."

        Of course, that last part
        was added later for this
        book.

        Prometheus



        etznab wrote:
        About this subject, there were rods back in Biblical days. And before
        that, in Egypt. I remember the story of Moses and Pharaoh casting their
        rods on the ground and one consuming the other (something like that).
        So, evidently, people believed in the power of rods. They are in movies
        like Lord of the Rings and other stories.

        Back in Biblical times (and before) I suspect a rod (in the form of a
        shepherd's crook) had some practical applications (like rescuing
        livestock from a river). And in highland and mountain areas maybe it
        was used as a walking stick.

        By the time of the Egyptian Pharaoh's a number of different staffs had
        developed. One of them was called the "was" scepter

        "Was sceptres were used as symbols of power or dominion, and were
        associated with the gods (such as Set or Anubis)[1] as well as with the
        pharaoh. Was sceptres also represent the Typhonic beast or Set-animal
        (the mascot of the Egyptian god Set). In later use, it was a symbol of
        control over the force of chaos that Set represented."

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was

        The spiritual name for the current leader of Eckankar is (curiously, I
        believe) Wah Z. I'm not sure how that name came about, but remember
        some story about Darwin pronouncing the word wahhh and asking Harold if
        he knew the rest of it. Does anybody recall a story like that? Where
        Darwin helped to give Harold his spiritual name?

        At any rate, it seems that the "Rod of Power" paradigm (even outside of
        Eckankar myth) has been around for ages. I imagine it's possible that
        the founder of Eckankar probably read about it too. However, Rebazar
        Tarzs is said to be the "torchbearer" for Eckankar, but much of his
        words seem to read like pages from out of books. Books known by Paul
        Twitchell, the founder!

        Maybe someday I can look at earlier Eckankar texts that mention "Rod of
        Power" & see whether any of that story was paraphrased, or plagiarized
        from another source.



        Ho Hum, Another Cult and
        Clone of Eckankar


        Ah, yes, more nonsense. This is a case of jumping out of the fire and
        into the frying pan. Let's be blunt. There is no rod of power. There is
        no rod of anything. It's all just bullshit. If you need the delusion
        then have a great time with it. But it's such a ridiculous, unprovable
        and absurd idea that I don't know where to begin.

        The mind is a creative tool. It's capable of invention as well as
        belief in invention. This is how god was created. Or, to be more
        accurate, gods in the plural. The idea of a rod is merely another way
        of saying spirit. But it's built on very flimsy circumstantial evidence.
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Etznab, I was wondering if you had seen this? And, wanted to ask if you had this book? Earlier books, like this, point out the flaws in Klemp s thinking
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 10, 2013
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          Hello Etznab,
          I was wondering if
          you had seen this?
          And, wanted to ask
          if you had this book?
          Earlier books, like
          this, point out the
          flaws in Klemp's
          thinking processes
          as a H.I. in the same
          way Twitchell's earlier
          books point out his
          flaws and lies. it's
          interesting to see
          how HK uses the
          20/20 hindsight
          approach in his
          writings and gets
          away with it.

          Prometheus



          Prometheus wrote:
          Hello Etznab and All,
          Yes, Klemp needed to
          have a "spiritual" name
          since PT's was Peddar
          Zaskq and DG's was
          Dap Ren. Thus, in
          one of their meetings
          in the Sound Proof
          Dark Room where
          Klemp worked at the
          ESC did Darwin ask
          about what Harold
          had come up with.

          BTW- All of this is
          in the 1987 "Soul
          Travelers of the Far
          Country" by Harold
          Klemp. It's no wonder
          Klemp stopped printing
          this book it's full of
          misspeaks for someone
          supposedly "enlightened."
          Chapter 7 is full of
          goodies. Here's an
          example on page 148
          and note that Klemp
          was an 8th initiate
          in 1980 (MY CAPS):

          "In any case, this family
          crisis forced me to take
          a long hard look at the
          meaning of detachment.
          Was it really fear of living
          that caused me to DESIRE
          a detached life? IF I felt
          compassion for my brother,
          would that open my inner
          bodies for taking on his
          karma? After all, he made
          the karma that produced
          his sickness. Why should
          I take a chance and get
          it, too? What person in
          his right mind would involve
          himself in something as
          deadly as cancer?"

          Klemp, then, in 1987 as
          a 12th initiate added this
          perspective: "The real issue
          turned out to be not detachment
          at all, but surrender."

          Okay, let's get back to the
          original issue... How did
          Klemp get his spiritual
          name? For this we have
          to look at Chapter 10
          pages 202-203. Gross
          asked Klemp on Oct. 9th
          (1981) if he knew his spiritual
          name.

          "Later that afternoon,
          the Living ECK Master
          dropped by again. In the
          darkroom, he asked, 'Do
          you know your spiritual
          name?' 'Yes,' I said 'Z!'
          'What?'..... 'How about
          Wah Z?'"

          "The added syllable
          meant the Inner Master
          working with initiates in
          a particular way on the
          spiritual planes. Z, or
          Wah Z, means the Secret
          Doctrine."

          Of course, that last part
          was added later for this
          book.

          Prometheus



          etznab wrote:
          About this subject, there were rods back in Biblical days. And before
          that, in Egypt. I remember the story of Moses and Pharaoh casting their
          rods on the ground and one consuming the other (something like that).
          So, evidently, people believed in the power of rods. They are in movies
          like Lord of the Rings and other stories.

          Back in Biblical times (and before) I suspect a rod (in the form of a
          shepherd's crook) had some practical applications (like rescuing
          livestock from a river). And in highland and mountain areas maybe it
          was used as a walking stick.

          By the time of the Egyptian Pharaoh's a number of different staffs had
          developed. One of them was called the "was" scepter

          "Was sceptres were used as symbols of power or dominion, and were
          associated with the gods (such as Set or Anubis)[1] as well as with the
          pharaoh. Was sceptres also represent the Typhonic beast or Set-animal
          (the mascot of the Egyptian god Set). In later use, it was a symbol of
          control over the force of chaos that Set represented."

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was

          The spiritual name for the current leader of Eckankar is (curiously, I
          believe) Wah Z. I'm not sure how that name came about, but remember
          some story about Darwin pronouncing the word wahhh and asking Harold if
          he knew the rest of it. Does anybody recall a story like that? Where
          Darwin helped to give Harold his spiritual name?

          At any rate, it seems that the "Rod of Power" paradigm (even outside of
          Eckankar myth) has been around for ages. I imagine it's possible that
          the founder of Eckankar probably read about it too. However, Rebazar
          Tarzs is said to be the "torchbearer" for Eckankar, but much of his
          words seem to read like pages from out of books. Books known by Paul
          Twitchell, the founder!

          Maybe someday I can look at earlier Eckankar texts that mention "Rod of
          Power" & see whether any of that story was paraphrased, or plagiarized
          from another source.



          Ho Hum, Another Cult and
          Clone of Eckankar


          Ah, yes, more nonsense. This is a case of jumping out of the fire and
          into the frying pan. Let's be blunt. There is no rod of power. There is
          no rod of anything. It's all just bullshit. If you need the delusion
          then have a great time with it. But it's such a ridiculous, unprovable
          and absurd idea that I don't know where to begin.

          The mind is a creative tool. It's capable of invention as well as
          belief in invention. This is how god was created. Or, to be more
          accurate, gods in the plural. The idea of a rod is merely another way
          of saying spirit. But it's built on very flimsy circumstantial evidence.
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