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Re: Fw: Ho Hum, Another Cult and Clone of Eckankar

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  • harrisonferrel
    Ah, yes, more nonsense. This is a case of jumping out of the fire and into the frying pan. Let s be blunt. There is no rod of power. There is no rod of
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 9, 2013
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      Ah, yes, more nonsense. This is a case of jumping out of the fire and into the frying pan. Let's be blunt. There is no rod of power. There is no rod of anything. It's all just bullshit. If you need the delusion then have a great time with it. But it's such a ridiculous, unprovable and absurd idea that I don't know where to begin.

      The mind is a creative tool. It's capable of invention as well as belief in invention. This is how god was created. Or, to be more accurate, gods in the plural. The idea of a rod is merely another way of saying spirit. But it's built on very flimsy circumstantial evidence.




      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Gnothe Seauton <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ----- Forwarded Message -----
      > From: mariola_kbf <mariola_kbf@...>
      > To: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
      > Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 6:47 AM
      > Subject: Re: Ho Hum, Another Cult and Clone of Eckankar
      >
      >
      > I am not an advocate for either of these Spiritual Paths...the rod of power has passed from one movement to another time and time again. It appears Spirit has it's own selection committee outside of our organisations and their claims to fame. Yes twichell was a Living LOGOS Master upon the lineage, so was Baba Sawan Singh Ji who belongs to Sant Mat Spiritual Movement. My point is, that it was the individual and not the movement. This has since changed - no longer will the rod of power pass from movement to movement. It will remain now and until dissolution of the Physical Universe - within the Spiritual Movement of LOGOS-IBbala Malende. I expect this will not sit well with Spiritual Movements the world over, however their feelings are of little consequence. The Lord Eagle is one of 5 in the Father Lineage above the Son Lineage we speak of. It was The Nameless One, Helios, Aton, Maitreya and recently the Lord Eagle - also called LOGOSOGO. The movement
      > here/physically has little form and infrastructure...there is however a website www.logos-im.org.za The crux lies in the Rod of Power - again of the "Living Master" Currently Suntre Boewel. There is so much truth in these Spiritual Movements granted, but there is only one rod of power, which only recently has come to rest. This movement "LOGOS" is founded via the "Father". In the past there was the Father Sun, then the Father Christ....now the Father LOGOS. So in this case the Father LOGOS has founded the movement hence the longevity and certainty that the Rod of Power is fixed within the movement henceforth.
      >
      >
      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > This was taken from their
      > > site. Notice the similarities
      > > to Eckankar. And, they even
      > > mention Eckankar!
      > >
      > > Their Mahaji is a 14th initiate!
      > > And this guy is the 973rd
      > > Living ___ Master. I guess
      > > nobody told him that the
      > > previous 972 either didn't
      > > exist, or were stolen from
      > > other religions. Actually, he
      > > probably knows these previous
      > > "masters" don't exist and
      > > that Twitchell was a wannabe
      > > fraud like this guy and Klemp
      > > are emulating in order to
      > > sell their wares!
      > >
      > > *********
      > > About Sri Kahtifji The Mahaji the Living SRAOSHA Master.
      > >
      > > The Living SRAOSHA Master is the titular leader of AKATHA. He (always a man as of physical vibratory rate â€" a scientific factor and not a social idea of male or female) is at least a Twelfth Plane Initiate (the title Mahaji has two meanings â€" synonymous with the Living SRAOSHA Master who is a 14th Initiate or higher and a fourteenth initiate as well). He receives in Soul Body (Spirit Body), what is known as the Yastiprabhava (Rod of Power â€" centralised vibratory spiritual power from God sometimes known as the "quickening, polarisation, godhood, etc."  He is not God ITSELF but like any Soul just a spark of  God. Still the Living SRAOSHA Master is the central or highest developed spark of Soul as the leader of AKATHA.) in the Valley of Shangta at the Oracle of Tirmir in India. Only one can exist at a time.
      > >
      > >  I, Sri Kahtifji (Sri Timothy Arnold [sobriquet of Sri Tirkahtif ra-Zah]), presently represents the 973rd Living SRAOSHA Master with the lineage starting with Rama at midnight on October 22, 3100 B.C. (Before the Common era). On that date marked the beginning of the Iron Age or the Kali Yuga. Since a new era started then, it was easy to mark the beginning of the lineage (older masters are called "Ancient Masters") albeit no end exists to the lineage as it goes on forever as long as the lower worlds (see God Worlds chart) exist. Still beginning points are earmarked in history as of convenience in time and space. We can still write a list of masters in a lineage book that will not be too long. The title is given to the lineage of AKATHA Leaders down through history.
      > >
      > > The AKATHA lineage is the longest unbroken line of spiritual masters in the universe that teaches the principles of the ancient science of Sahaji. The name has been different at times, e.g., Eckankar from 1965 to 1971, Kabav from 1500 to 1518, and Melvev in the 13th Century. AKATHA has been public this time since 1988. The tenure of the Master varies like the path itself wherein the length of mastery tenure has been from 226 years to two days. Hence, one can see quite a range here. The important point remains that the Living Master is a temporary position and not one man forever, taking away the idea of dictatorship. Also, it explains the messiah or savant complexes are, in reality, just hero worship or a god complex for a time and a dictatorship absolutely. Presently, we have the same occurrence taking place in the new age movements with self-styled savants making a claim for god-ship expecting the public to proclaim them. The temporary tenure of the
      > Living SRAOSHA Master shows no permanent leadership by one man giving a relief to the student. The Master emphasizes this point often making sure the students understand thoroughly especially when the tenure is long. I have been master as of this writing for 23 years and as it gets longer emphasize the fact of the lineage quite often reinforcing the fact of non-dictatorship by one person.
      > >
      > > The purpose, prime directive or mission directly from AKSHAR of the Living SRAOSHA Master is nothing more than to take the ready Soul back to God or at least the Fifth plane of Sat Lok (shown on the God Worlds of AKATHA chart on this website). The purpose has always been and always will be in finding the ready Soul as the true Bodhisattva (One who sees and experiences God-Realization and returns to guide others back to IT). The Rod of Power explained in the previous paragraph gives the Master the ability to guide the ready Soul into the Higher Planes. The Master's experience of itself affords the ready one an expert guidance for travelling in Sahaji. Of course, the training of this inner and outer master has taken many lifetimes to achieve culminating in the Rod of Power reception. As of this long training and after the Rod of Power is transferred to this Master, the Living SRAOSHA Master, the chela or student can now avail himself of this special
      > experiential teaching expertise. Thus, AKATHA reveals that the experienced Master having been to the highest planes of the God Worlds of AKATHA can also guide his students there as well. Thereby, the truth seeker who has always yearned for God from the very beginning remembers through the Mahaji, the Living SRAOSHA Master what he or she has lost.
      > >
      > > Furthermore, I am 61 years old, born on July 20th 1950 in Metz, France (Germany before WWII). I am considered Prussian insofar as the family was descended fairly recently from Prussian royalty, the von Brauchitsch Bauer-Rothschilds. Being raised in the America's Midwest, the family was hidden away as of the problems with the early 20th Century Third Reich in Germany. The family was moved after the Weimer Regime collapsed in 1927, but my mother returned in the late 30's attempting to right things there with the estate. She met my father ,then a third cousin Bauer-Rothschild. They married and moved back to the states in 1951. Having spent my first year as an infant in Europe helped my conditioning for America being more subjective to the recent problems here. Drugs and loud music have infiltrated it severely with the only hope I believe is the music that AKATHA creates at Its seminars.
      > >
      > > Moreover, my first few years of life were plagued with not understanding myself being raised as a Catholic. It is true that the Catholic faith is wholesome regarding their ten commandments and pure living and speech. However, a lot was to be desired for me not distinguishing specifically  the essence of man as Soul until I met Paul Twitchell who appeared to me nightly in his Atma Sarup body in Sahaji or Soul Travel, the out-of-body projection. He appeared to me for most of two years starting in 1965 whilst I did not know who he was until seeing his picture on the cover of one of his books in 1971. By then he had passed onto his new job as Guardian of the Kazi Dawtz AKATHA Temple of Golden Wisdom on the Ninth Plane. Paulji (name of endearment) taught me the teachings of AKATHA then known as Eckankar. I became an Eckist in 1972, a few months after Paulji's translation (death). In his Atma Sarup or Soul Body appearance those few years before, he reminded
      > me of my training for leadership of the path. Peddar Zaskq (Paulji's spiritual name) predicted my mastership and leadership of AKATHA in his "Illuminated Way Letters" of January 1971. Thus, in 1988, I became the Mahaji, the 973rd Living SRAOSHA Master and brought AKATHA public to the world.
      > >
      >
    • etznab18
      About this subject, there were rods back in Biblical days. And before that, in Egypt. I remember the story of Moses and Pharaoh casting their rods on the
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 9, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        About this subject, there were rods back in Biblical days. And before
        that, in Egypt. I remember the story of Moses and Pharaoh casting their
        rods on the ground and one consuming the other (something like that).
        So, evidently, people believed in the power of rods. They are in movies
        like Lord of the Rings and other stories.

        Back in Biblical times (and before) I suspect a rod (in the form of a
        shepherd's crook) had some practical applications (like rescuing
        livestock from a river). And in highland and mountain areas maybe it
        was used as a walking stick.

        By the time of the Egyptian Pharaoh's a number of different staffs had
        developed. One of them was called the "was" scepter

        "Was sceptres were used as symbols of power or dominion, and were
        associated with the gods (such as Set or Anubis)[1] as well as with the
        pharaoh. Was sceptres also represent the Typhonic beast or Set-animal
        (the mascot of the Egyptian god Set). In later use, it was a symbol of
        control over the force of chaos that Set represented."

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was

        The spiritual name for the current leader of Eckankar is (curiously, I
        believe) Wah Z. I'm not sure how that name came about, but remember
        some story about Darwin pronouncing the word wahhh and asking Harold if
        he knew the rest of it. Does anybody recall a story like that? Where
        Darwin helped to give Harold his spiritual name?

        At any rate, it seems that the "Rod of Power" paradigm (even outside of
        Eckankar myth) has been around for ages. I imagine it's possible that
        the founder of Eckankar probably read about it too. However, Rebazar
        Tarzs is said to be the "torchbearer" for Eckankar, but much of his
        words seem to read like pages from out of books. Books known by Paul
        Twitchell, the founder!

        Maybe someday I can look at earlier Eckankar texts that mention "Rod of
        Power" & see whether any of that story was paraphrased, or plagiarized
        from another source.



        -----Original Message-----
        From: harrisonferrel <harrisonferrel@...>
        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
        <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tue, Apr 9, 2013 2:48 am
        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Fw: Ho Hum, Another Cult and
        Clone of Eckankar

         
        Ah, yes, more nonsense. This is a case of jumping out of the fire and
        into the frying pan. Let's be blunt. There is no rod of power. There is
        no rod of anything. It's all just bullshit. If you need the delusion
        then have a great time with it. But it's such a ridiculous, unprovable
        and absurd idea that I don't know where to begin.

        The mind is a creative tool. It's capable of invention as well as
        belief in invention. This is how god was created. Or, to be more
        accurate, gods in the plural. The idea of a rod is merely another way
        of saying spirit. But it's built on very flimsy circumstantial evidence.

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, Gnothe Seauton
        <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ----- Forwarded Message -----
        > From: mariola_kbf <mariola_kbf@...>
        > To: prometheus_973 <prometheus_973@...>
        > Sent: Friday, April 5, 2013 6:47 AM
        > Subject: Re: Ho Hum, Another Cult and Clone of Eckankar
        >
        >
        > I am not an advocate for either of these Spiritual Paths...the rod
        of power has passed from one movement to another time and time again.
        It appears Spirit has it's own selection committee outside of our
        organisations and their claims to fame. Yes twichell was a Living LOGOS
        Master upon the lineage, so was Baba Sawan Singh Ji who belongs to Sant
        Mat Spiritual Movement. My point is, that it was the individual and not
        the movement. This has since changed - no longer will the rod of power
        pass from movement to movement. It will remain now and until
        dissolution of the Physical Universe - within the Spiritual Movement of
        LOGOS-IBbala Malende. I expect this will not sit well with Spiritual
        Movements the world over, however their feelings are of little
        consequence. The Lord Eagle is one of 5 in the Father Lineage above the
        Son Lineage we speak of. It was The Nameless One, Helios, Aton,
        Maitreya and recently the Lord Eagle - also called LOGOSOGO. The
        movement
        > here/physically has little form and infrastructure...there is
        however a website www.logos-im.org.za The crux lies in the Rod of Power
        - again of the "Living Master" Currently Suntre Boewel. There is so
        much truth in these Spiritual Movements granted, but there is only one
        rod of power, which only recently has come to rest. This movement
        "LOGOS" is founded via the "Father". In the past there was the Father
        Sun, then the Father Christ....now the Father LOGOS. So in this case
        the Father LOGOS has founded the movement hence the longevity and
        certainty that the Rod of Power is fixed within the movement henceforth.
        >
        >
        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
        "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello All,
        > > This was taken from their
        > > site. Notice the similarities
        > > to Eckankar. And, they even
        > > mention Eckankar!
        > >
        > > Their Mahaji is a 14th initiate!
        > > And this guy is the 973rd
        > > Living ___ Master. I guess
        > > nobody told him that the
        > > previous 972 either didn't
        > > exist, or were stolen from
        > > other religions. Actually, he
        > > probably knows these previous
        > > "masters" don't exist and
        > > that Twitchell was a wannabe
        > > fraud like this guy and Klemp
        > > are emulating in order to
        > > sell their wares!
        > >
        > > *********
        > > About Sri Kahtifji The Mahaji the Living SRAOSHA Master.
        > >
        > > The Living SRAOSHA Master is the titular leader of AKATHA. He
        (always a man as of physical vibratory rate â€" a scientific factor and
        not a social idea of male or female) is at least a Twelfth Plane
        Initiate (the title Mahaji has two meanings â€" synonymous with the
        Living SRAOSHA Master who is a 14th Initiate or higher and a fourteenth
        initiate as well). He receives in Soul Body (Spirit Body), what is
        known as the Yastiprabhava (Rod of Power â€" centralised vibratory
        spiritual power from God sometimes known as the "quickening,
        polarisation, godhood, etc."  He is not God ITSELF but like any Soul
        just a spark of  God. Still the Living SRAOSHA Master is the central
        or highest developed spark of Soul as the leader of AKATHA.) in the
        Valley of Shangta at the Oracle of Tirmir in India. Only one can exist
        at a time.
        > >
        > >  I, Sri Kahtifji (Sri Timothy Arnold [sobriquet of Sri
        Tirkahtif ra-Zah]), presently represents the 973rd Living SRAOSHA
        Master with the lineage starting with Rama at midnight on October 22,
        3100 B.C. (Before the Common era). On that date marked the beginning of
        the Iron Age or the Kali Yuga. Since a new era started then, it was
        easy to mark the beginning of the lineage (older masters are called
        "Ancient Masters") albeit no end exists to the lineage as it goes on
        forever as long as the lower worlds (see God Worlds chart) exist. Still
        beginning points are earmarked in history as of convenience in time and
        space. We can still write a list of masters in a lineage book that will
        not be too long. The title is given to the lineage of AKATHA Leaders
        down through history.
        > >
        > > The AKATHA lineage is the longest unbroken line of spiritual
        masters in the universe that teaches the principles of the ancient
        science of Sahaji. The name has been different at times, e.g., Eckankar
        from 1965 to 1971, Kabav from 1500 to 1518, and Melvev in the 13th
        Century. AKATHA has been public this time since 1988. The tenure of the
        Master varies like the path itself wherein the length of mastery tenure
        has been from 226 years to two days. Hence, one can see quite a range
        here. The important point remains that the Living Master is a temporary
        position and not one man forever, taking away the idea of dictatorship.
        Also, it explains the messiah or savant complexes are, in reality, just
        hero worship or a god complex for a time and a dictatorship absolutely.
        Presently, we have the same occurrence taking place in the new age
        movements with self-styled savants making a claim for god-ship
        expecting the public to proclaim them. The temporary tenure of the
        > Living SRAOSHA Master shows no permanent leadership by one man
        giving a relief to the student. The Master emphasizes this point often
        making sure the students understand thoroughly especially when the
        tenure is long. I have been master as of this writing for 23 years and
        as it gets longer emphasize the fact of the lineage quite often
        reinforcing the fact of non-dictatorship by one person.
        > >
        > > The purpose, prime directive or mission directly from AKSHAR
        of the Living SRAOSHA Master is nothing more than to take the ready
        Soul back to God or at least the Fifth plane of Sat Lok (shown on the
        God Worlds of AKATHA chart on this website). The purpose has always
        been and always will be in finding the ready Soul as the true
        Bodhisattva (One who sees and experiences God-Realization and returns
        to guide others back to IT). The Rod of Power explained in the previous
        paragraph gives the Master the ability to guide the ready Soul into the
        Higher Planes. The Master's experience of itself affords the ready one
        an expert guidance for travelling in Sahaji. Of course, the training of
        this inner and outer master has taken many lifetimes to achieve
        culminating in the Rod of Power reception. As of this long training and
        after the Rod of Power is transferred to this Master, the Living
        SRAOSHA Master, the chela or student can now avail himself of this
        special
        > experiential teaching expertise. Thus, AKATHA reveals that the
        experienced Master having been to the highest planes of the God Worlds
        of AKATHA can also guide his students there as well. Thereby, the truth
        seeker who has always yearned for God from the very beginning remembers
        through the Mahaji, the Living SRAOSHA Master what he or she has lost.
        > >
        > > Furthermore, I am 61 years old, born on July 20th 1950 in
        Metz, France (Germany before WWII). I am considered Prussian insofar as
        the family was descended fairly recently from Prussian royalty, the von
        Brauchitsch Bauer-Rothschilds. Being raised in the America's Midwest,
        the family was hidden away as of the problems with the early 20th
        Century Third Reich in Germany. The family was moved after the Weimer
        Regime collapsed in 1927, but my mother returned in the late 30's
        attempting to right things there with the estate. She met my father
        ,then a third cousin Bauer-Rothschild. They married and moved back to
        the states in 1951. Having spent my first year as an infant in Europe
        helped my conditioning for America being more subjective to the recent
        problems here. Drugs and loud music have infiltrated it severely with
        the only hope I believe is the music that AKATHA creates at Its
        seminars.
        > >
        > > Moreover, my first few years of life were plagued with not
        understanding myself being raised as a Catholic. It is true that the
        Catholic faith is wholesome regarding their ten commandments and pure
        living and speech. However, a lot was to be desired for me not
        distinguishing specifically  the essence of man as Soul until I met
        Paul Twitchell who appeared to me nightly in his Atma Sarup body in
        Sahaji or Soul Travel, the out-of-body projection. He appeared to me
        for most of two years starting in 1965 whilst I did not know who he was
        until seeing his picture on the cover of one of his books in 1971. By
        then he had passed onto his new job as Guardian of the Kazi Dawtz
        AKATHA Temple of Golden Wisdom on the Ninth Plane. Paulji (name of
        endearment) taught me the teachings of AKATHA then known as Eckankar. I
        became an Eckist in 1972, a few months after Paulji's translation
        (death). In his Atma Sarup or Soul Body appearance those few years
        before, he reminded
        > me of my training for leadership of the path. Peddar Zaskq
        (Paulji's spiritual name) predicted my mastership and leadership of
        AKATHA in his "Illuminated Way Letters" of January 1971. Thus, in 1988,
        I became the Mahaji, the 973rd Living SRAOSHA Master and brought AKATHA
        public to the world.
        > >
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello Etznab and All, Yes, Klemp needed to have a spiritual name since PT s was Peddar Zaskq and DG s was Dap Ren. Thus, in one of their meetings in the
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 9, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Hello Etznab and All,
          Yes, Klemp needed to
          have a "spiritual" name
          since PT's was Peddar
          Zaskq and DG's was
          Dap Ren. Thus, in
          one of their meetings
          in the Sound Proof
          Dark Room where
          Klemp worked at the
          ESC did Darwin ask
          about what Harold
          had come up with.

          BTW- All of this is
          in the 1987 "Soul
          Travelers of the Far
          Country" by Harold
          Klemp. It's no wonder
          Klemp stopped printing
          this book it's full of
          misspeaks for someone
          supposedly "enlightened."
          Chapter 7 is full of
          goodies. Here's an
          example on page 148
          and note that Klemp
          was an 8th initiate
          in 1980 (MY CAPS):

          "In any case, this family
          crisis forced me to take
          a long hard look at the
          meaning of detachment.
          Was it really fear of living
          that caused me to DESIRE
          a detached life? IF I felt
          compassion for my brother,
          would that open my inner
          bodies for taking on his
          karma? After all, he made
          the karma that produced
          his sickness. Why should
          I take a chance and get
          it, too? What person in
          his right mind would involve
          himself in something as
          deadly as cancer?"

          Klemp, then, in 1987 as
          a 12th initiate added this
          perspective: "The real issue
          turned out to be not detachment
          at all, but surrender."

          Okay, let's get back to the
          original issue... How did
          Klemp get his spiritual
          name? For this we have
          to look at Chapter 10
          pages 202-203. Gross
          asked Klemp on Oct. 9th
          (1981) if he knew his spiritual
          name.

          "Later that afternoon,
          the Living ECK Master
          dropped by again. In the
          darkroom, he asked, 'Do
          you know your spiritual
          name?' 'Yes,' I said 'Z!'
          'What?'..... 'How about
          Wah Z?'"

          "The added syllable
          meant the Inner Master
          working with initiates in
          a particular way on the
          spiritual planes. Z, or
          Wah Z, means the Secret
          Doctrine."

          Of course, that last part
          was added later for this
          book.

          Prometheus



          etznab wrote:
          About this subject, there were rods back in Biblical days. And before
          that, in Egypt. I remember the story of Moses and Pharaoh casting their
          rods on the ground and one consuming the other (something like that).
          So, evidently, people believed in the power of rods. They are in movies
          like Lord of the Rings and other stories.

          Back in Biblical times (and before) I suspect a rod (in the form of a
          shepherd's crook) had some practical applications (like rescuing
          livestock from a river). And in highland and mountain areas maybe it
          was used as a walking stick.

          By the time of the Egyptian Pharaoh's a number of different staffs had
          developed. One of them was called the "was" scepter

          "Was sceptres were used as symbols of power or dominion, and were
          associated with the gods (such as Set or Anubis)[1] as well as with the
          pharaoh. Was sceptres also represent the Typhonic beast or Set-animal
          (the mascot of the Egyptian god Set). In later use, it was a symbol of
          control over the force of chaos that Set represented."

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was

          The spiritual name for the current leader of Eckankar is (curiously, I
          believe) Wah Z. I'm not sure how that name came about, but remember
          some story about Darwin pronouncing the word wahhh and asking Harold if
          he knew the rest of it. Does anybody recall a story like that? Where
          Darwin helped to give Harold his spiritual name?

          At any rate, it seems that the "Rod of Power" paradigm (even outside of
          Eckankar myth) has been around for ages. I imagine it's possible that
          the founder of Eckankar probably read about it too. However, Rebazar
          Tarzs is said to be the "torchbearer" for Eckankar, but much of his
          words seem to read like pages from out of books. Books known by Paul
          Twitchell, the founder!

          Maybe someday I can look at earlier Eckankar texts that mention "Rod of
          Power" & see whether any of that story was paraphrased, or plagiarized
          from another source.



          Ho Hum, Another Cult and
          Clone of Eckankar


          Ah, yes, more nonsense. This is a case of jumping out of the fire and
          into the frying pan. Let's be blunt. There is no rod of power. There is
          no rod of anything. It's all just bullshit. If you need the delusion
          then have a great time with it. But it's such a ridiculous, unprovable
          and absurd idea that I don't know where to begin.

          The mind is a creative tool. It's capable of invention as well as
          belief in invention. This is how god was created. Or, to be more
          accurate, gods in the plural. The idea of a rod is merely another way
          of saying spirit. But it's built on very flimsy circumstantial evidence.
        • prometheus_973
          Hello Etznab, I was wondering if you had seen this? And, wanted to ask if you had this book? Earlier books, like this, point out the flaws in Klemp s thinking
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 10, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello Etznab,
            I was wondering if
            you had seen this?
            And, wanted to ask
            if you had this book?
            Earlier books, like
            this, point out the
            flaws in Klemp's
            thinking processes
            as a H.I. in the same
            way Twitchell's earlier
            books point out his
            flaws and lies. it's
            interesting to see
            how HK uses the
            20/20 hindsight
            approach in his
            writings and gets
            away with it.

            Prometheus



            Prometheus wrote:
            Hello Etznab and All,
            Yes, Klemp needed to
            have a "spiritual" name
            since PT's was Peddar
            Zaskq and DG's was
            Dap Ren. Thus, in
            one of their meetings
            in the Sound Proof
            Dark Room where
            Klemp worked at the
            ESC did Darwin ask
            about what Harold
            had come up with.

            BTW- All of this is
            in the 1987 "Soul
            Travelers of the Far
            Country" by Harold
            Klemp. It's no wonder
            Klemp stopped printing
            this book it's full of
            misspeaks for someone
            supposedly "enlightened."
            Chapter 7 is full of
            goodies. Here's an
            example on page 148
            and note that Klemp
            was an 8th initiate
            in 1980 (MY CAPS):

            "In any case, this family
            crisis forced me to take
            a long hard look at the
            meaning of detachment.
            Was it really fear of living
            that caused me to DESIRE
            a detached life? IF I felt
            compassion for my brother,
            would that open my inner
            bodies for taking on his
            karma? After all, he made
            the karma that produced
            his sickness. Why should
            I take a chance and get
            it, too? What person in
            his right mind would involve
            himself in something as
            deadly as cancer?"

            Klemp, then, in 1987 as
            a 12th initiate added this
            perspective: "The real issue
            turned out to be not detachment
            at all, but surrender."

            Okay, let's get back to the
            original issue... How did
            Klemp get his spiritual
            name? For this we have
            to look at Chapter 10
            pages 202-203. Gross
            asked Klemp on Oct. 9th
            (1981) if he knew his spiritual
            name.

            "Later that afternoon,
            the Living ECK Master
            dropped by again. In the
            darkroom, he asked, 'Do
            you know your spiritual
            name?' 'Yes,' I said 'Z!'
            'What?'..... 'How about
            Wah Z?'"

            "The added syllable
            meant the Inner Master
            working with initiates in
            a particular way on the
            spiritual planes. Z, or
            Wah Z, means the Secret
            Doctrine."

            Of course, that last part
            was added later for this
            book.

            Prometheus



            etznab wrote:
            About this subject, there were rods back in Biblical days. And before
            that, in Egypt. I remember the story of Moses and Pharaoh casting their
            rods on the ground and one consuming the other (something like that).
            So, evidently, people believed in the power of rods. They are in movies
            like Lord of the Rings and other stories.

            Back in Biblical times (and before) I suspect a rod (in the form of a
            shepherd's crook) had some practical applications (like rescuing
            livestock from a river). And in highland and mountain areas maybe it
            was used as a walking stick.

            By the time of the Egyptian Pharaoh's a number of different staffs had
            developed. One of them was called the "was" scepter

            "Was sceptres were used as symbols of power or dominion, and were
            associated with the gods (such as Set or Anubis)[1] as well as with the
            pharaoh. Was sceptres also represent the Typhonic beast or Set-animal
            (the mascot of the Egyptian god Set). In later use, it was a symbol of
            control over the force of chaos that Set represented."

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Was

            The spiritual name for the current leader of Eckankar is (curiously, I
            believe) Wah Z. I'm not sure how that name came about, but remember
            some story about Darwin pronouncing the word wahhh and asking Harold if
            he knew the rest of it. Does anybody recall a story like that? Where
            Darwin helped to give Harold his spiritual name?

            At any rate, it seems that the "Rod of Power" paradigm (even outside of
            Eckankar myth) has been around for ages. I imagine it's possible that
            the founder of Eckankar probably read about it too. However, Rebazar
            Tarzs is said to be the "torchbearer" for Eckankar, but much of his
            words seem to read like pages from out of books. Books known by Paul
            Twitchell, the founder!

            Maybe someday I can look at earlier Eckankar texts that mention "Rod of
            Power" & see whether any of that story was paraphrased, or plagiarized
            from another source.



            Ho Hum, Another Cult and
            Clone of Eckankar


            Ah, yes, more nonsense. This is a case of jumping out of the fire and
            into the frying pan. Let's be blunt. There is no rod of power. There is
            no rod of anything. It's all just bullshit. If you need the delusion
            then have a great time with it. But it's such a ridiculous, unprovable
            and absurd idea that I don't know where to begin.

            The mind is a creative tool. It's capable of invention as well as
            belief in invention. This is how god was created. Or, to be more
            accurate, gods in the plural. The idea of a rod is merely another way
            of saying spirit. But it's built on very flimsy circumstantial evidence.
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