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Re: Review of The Karma Seeker

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello All, Thanks Stephan for the review that mentions the League (Eckankar). The person who wrote that review is also an author of the below book on
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 8, 2013
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      Hello All,
      Thanks Stephan for
      the review that mentions
      the League (Eckankar).

      The person who wrote
      that review is also an
      author of the below
      book on Amazon.com

      http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847

      On page 2 he writes:
      "Outside of rational awareness,
      science fails to explain anything
      mysterious or that which falls
      outside of that awareness."

      Actually, I'm not so sure that
      this is true. We have a rational
      awareness that there are still
      stars in the sky when the sun
      is shining, but lately science
      has come to know more about
      mysterious Black Holes and this
      information falls outside of our
      own awareness.

      However, his book does look
      interesting, although, it sounds
      like a modern remake regarding
      the thoughts and perspectives
      of Eastern religious leaders of
      the distant past... Ramakrishna
      for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
      balance was not a key approach
      to seeking God. One is to have
      a yearning for God as a jobless
      man has a yearning for work...
      yearning is all you need to have
      in order to realize Him (paraphrased).

      In any case "The Karma Seeker"
      looks like it gives an interesting
      look at the mindset of Eckists.
      I haven't read the book and don't
      plan on buying it. If it becomes
      available online for free I'd give
      it a critique.

      Prometheus

      Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:

      Prometheus:

      Got an unsolicited review of
      The Karma Seeker the other
      day.

      Thought you might be interested
      in what he says about the book.
      http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX

      Stefan
    • harrisonferrel
      I d like to weigh in here... Based on this statement: Outside of rational awareness, science fails to explain anything mysterious or that which falls outside
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 8, 2013
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        I'd like to weigh in here...

        Based on this statement: "Outside of rational awareness, science fails to explain anything mysterious or that which falls outside of that awareness."

        I think that this statement is a copout used by eckists and other religious people to keep from having their ideas and so-called experiences dismissed as workings of the brain. It's used all the time to rationalize their reasons for believing in the unknown. If you read a lot of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and their ilk you'll get a pretty good idea of how much science serves us in understanding the experiences that religious people are wont to say are mysterious. Mysterious, yes, but only to the ignorant.

        And, you're right, science does indeed know a lot about the workings of the brain and mind that are not part of the rational mind. To say that this is not true is to be ignorant of the depth of scientific knowledge, including psychology and neuroscience. Further, just because we do not know something does not mean there is no answer. It's pretty presumptuous to say what the limits of scientific knowledge are.

        Eckankar and other cults rely on ignorance. They teach about inner experiences that neuroscience can duplicate through stimulation of various parts of the brain. I think it's better to say "I don't know" than to presume that what I am experience is otherworldly and just too far out for science to comprehend or reveal.


        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > Thanks Stephan for
        > the review that mentions
        > the League (Eckankar).
        >
        > The person who wrote
        > that review is also an
        > author of the below
        > book on Amazon.com
        >
        > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
        >
        > On page 2 he writes:
        > "Outside of rational awareness,
        > science fails to explain anything
        > mysterious or that which falls
        > outside of that awareness."
        >
        > Actually, I'm not so sure that
        > this is true. We have a rational
        > awareness that there are still
        > stars in the sky when the sun
        > is shining, but lately science
        > has come to know more about
        > mysterious Black Holes and this
        > information falls outside of our
        > own awareness.
        >
        > However, his book does look
        > interesting, although, it sounds
        > like a modern remake regarding
        > the thoughts and perspectives
        > of Eastern religious leaders of
        > the distant past... Ramakrishna
        > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
        > balance was not a key approach
        > to seeking God. One is to have
        > a yearning for God as a jobless
        > man has a yearning for work...
        > yearning is all you need to have
        > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
        >
        > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
        > looks like it gives an interesting
        > look at the mindset of Eckists.
        > I haven't read the book and don't
        > plan on buying it. If it becomes
        > available online for free I'd give
        > it a critique.
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
        >
        > Prometheus:
        >
        > Got an unsolicited review of
        > The Karma Seeker the other
        > day.
        >
        > Thought you might be interested
        > in what he says about the book.
        > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
        >
        > Stefan
        >
      • Stefan G. Meyer
        The book will be available for free Kindle download on amazon.com for five days from April 29 through May 3. However, I d also be willing to send a copy as an
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 8, 2013
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          The book will be available for free Kindle download on amazon.com for five days from April 29 through May 3. However, I'd also be willing to send a copy as an e-mail attachment in Word or PDF format in exchange for a fair and impartial review.
           
          Stefan
           
          Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 5:54 PM
          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Review of The Karma Seeker

           

          Hello All,
          Thanks Stephan for
          the review that mentions
          the League (Eckankar).

          The person who wrote
          that review is also an
          author of the below
          book on Amazon.com

          http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847

          On page 2 he writes:
          "Outside of rational awareness,
          science fails to explain anything
          mysterious or that which falls
          outside of that awareness."

          Actually, I'm not so sure that
          this is true. We have a rational
          awareness that there are still
          stars in the sky when the sun
          is shining, but lately science
          has come to know more about
          mysterious Black Holes and this
          information falls outside of our
          own awareness.

          However, his book does look
          interesting, although, it sounds
          like a modern remake regarding
          the thoughts and perspectives
          of Eastern religious leaders of
          the distant past... Ramakrishna
          for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
          balance was not a key approach
          to seeking God. One is to have
          a yearning for God as a jobless
          man has a yearning for work...
          yearning is all you need to have
          in order to realize Him (paraphrased).

          In any case "The Karma Seeker"
          looks like it gives an interesting
          look at the mindset of Eckists.
          I haven't read the book and don't
          plan on buying it. If it becomes
          available online for free I'd give
          it a critique.

          Prometheus

          Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:

          Prometheus:

          Got an unsolicited review of
          The Karma Seeker the other
          day.

          Thought you might be interested
          in what he says about the book.
          http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX

          Stefan

        • prometheus_973
          Hello All, I don t want to say that I have a closed mind about all of this spiritual stuff but it does make one wonder about credibility. We ve all been
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 9, 2013
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            Hello All,
            I don't want to say that
            I have a closed mind
            about all of this "spiritual"
            stuff but it does make
            one wonder about credibility.

            We've all been burned by
            cons and conmen of various
            sorts selling various concoctions
            of snake oil.

            I do know that religions
            are a farce created by men
            and that "God" was created
            in their image. A litmus test
            for religion is to see if women
            (half the population) are treated
            as equals to men. This is a
            definite sign that indicates
            that it is a false religion. Sure,
            the men have their ancient
            scripture and explanations
            why it's all for and by men
            but God would never allow
            that to be true.

            Just as Adam Dream Healer
            is a con there are people
            everywhere desperate to
            make a living by using their
            wits (street smarts) or educational
            credentials and awards that
            are seeking out a larger audience
            of suckers. Some of these
            people have actually deluded
            themselves into believing
            the spiel, but this helps them
            to be more convincing as well.
            Klemp is one of these people
            and he's found his little niche
            with Eckankar. Anyway here's
            what Stefan Meyer is into:

            http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php

            The Ancient Science of Cards,
            btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!

            So, it sounds kind of like The
            Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
            It's not Tarot or Astrology and
            it's not psychic. It's an ancient
            mystery science that goes back
            to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
            has to be true. It can't be a con
            nor pretend or wishful thinking.
            Right?

            Prometheus

            Stefan G. Meyer wrote:

            The book will be available for free
            Kindle download on amazon.com
            for five days from April 29 through
            May 3. However, I'd also be willing
            to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
            in Word or PDF format in exchange
            for a fair and impartial review.

            Stefan

            Prometheus wrote:
            > Hello All,
            > Thanks Stephan for
            > the review that mentions
            > the League (Eckankar).
            >
            > The person who wrote
            > that review is also an
            > author of the below
            > book on Amazon.com
            >
            > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
            >
            > On page 2 he writes:
            > "Outside of rational awareness,
            > science fails to explain anything
            > mysterious or that which falls
            > outside of that awareness."
            >
            > Actually, I'm not so sure that
            > this is true. We have a rational
            > awareness that there are still
            > stars in the sky when the sun
            > is shining, but lately science
            > has come to know more about
            > mysterious Black Holes and this
            > information falls outside of our
            > own awareness.
            >
            > However, his book does look
            > interesting, although, it sounds
            > like a modern remake regarding
            > the thoughts and perspectives
            > of Eastern religious leaders of
            > the distant past... Ramakrishna
            > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
            > balance was not a key approach
            > to seeking God. One is to have
            > a yearning for God as a jobless
            > man has a yearning for work...
            > yearning is all you need to have
            > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
            >
            > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
            > looks like it gives an interesting
            > look at the mindset of Eckists.
            > I haven't read the book and don't
            > plan on buying it. If it becomes
            > available online for free I'd give
            > it a critique.
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
            >
            > Prometheus:
            >
            > Got an unsolicited review of
            > The Karma Seeker the other
            > day.
            >
            > Thought you might be interested
            > in what he says about the book.
            > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
            >
            > Stefan
            >
          • harrisonferrel
            EXACTLY!! This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 9, 2013
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              EXACTLY!!

              This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the minds of humans.

              And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery really.

              However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.

              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello All,
              > I don't want to say that
              > I have a closed mind
              > about all of this "spiritual"
              > stuff but it does make
              > one wonder about credibility.
              >
              > We've all been burned by
              > cons and conmen of various
              > sorts selling various concoctions
              > of snake oil.
              >
              > I do know that religions
              > are a farce created by men
              > and that "God" was created
              > in their image. A litmus test
              > for religion is to see if women
              > (half the population) are treated
              > as equals to men. This is a
              > definite sign that indicates
              > that it is a false religion. Sure,
              > the men have their ancient
              > scripture and explanations
              > why it's all for and by men
              > but God would never allow
              > that to be true.
              >
              > Just as Adam Dream Healer
              > is a con there are people
              > everywhere desperate to
              > make a living by using their
              > wits (street smarts) or educational
              > credentials and awards that
              > are seeking out a larger audience
              > of suckers. Some of these
              > people have actually deluded
              > themselves into believing
              > the spiel, but this helps them
              > to be more convincing as well.
              > Klemp is one of these people
              > and he's found his little niche
              > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
              > what Stefan Meyer is into:
              >
              > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
              >
              > The Ancient Science of Cards,
              > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
              >
              > So, it sounds kind of like The
              > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
              > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
              > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
              > mystery science that goes back
              > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
              > has to be true. It can't be a con
              > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
              > Right?
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
              >
              > The book will be available for free
              > Kindle download on amazon.com
              > for five days from April 29 through
              > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
              > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
              > in Word or PDF format in exchange
              > for a fair and impartial review.
              >
              > Stefan
              >
              > Prometheus wrote:
              > > Hello All,
              > > Thanks Stephan for
              > > the review that mentions
              > > the League (Eckankar).
              > >
              > > The person who wrote
              > > that review is also an
              > > author of the below
              > > book on Amazon.com
              > >
              > > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
              > >
              > > On page 2 he writes:
              > > "Outside of rational awareness,
              > > science fails to explain anything
              > > mysterious or that which falls
              > > outside of that awareness."
              > >
              > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
              > > this is true. We have a rational
              > > awareness that there are still
              > > stars in the sky when the sun
              > > is shining, but lately science
              > > has come to know more about
              > > mysterious Black Holes and this
              > > information falls outside of our
              > > own awareness.
              > >
              > > However, his book does look
              > > interesting, although, it sounds
              > > like a modern remake regarding
              > > the thoughts and perspectives
              > > of Eastern religious leaders of
              > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
              > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
              > > balance was not a key approach
              > > to seeking God. One is to have
              > > a yearning for God as a jobless
              > > man has a yearning for work...
              > > yearning is all you need to have
              > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
              > >
              > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
              > > looks like it gives an interesting
              > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
              > > I haven't read the book and don't
              > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
              > > available online for free I'd give
              > > it a critique.
              > >
              > > Prometheus
              > >
              > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
              > >
              > > Prometheus:
              > >
              > > Got an unsolicited review of
              > > The Karma Seeker the other
              > > day.
              > >
              > > Thought you might be interested
              > > in what he says about the book.
              > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
              > >
              > > Stefan
              > >
              >
            • etznab18
              http://tinyurl.com/ccwha6m
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 13, 2013
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                http://tinyurl.com/ccwha6m

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
                >
                > EXACTLY!!
                >
                > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                >
                > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery really.
                >
                > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                >
                > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello All,
                > > I don't want to say that
                > > I have a closed mind
                > > about all of this "spiritual"
                > > stuff but it does make
                > > one wonder about credibility.
                > >
                > > We've all been burned by
                > > cons and conmen of various
                > > sorts selling various concoctions
                > > of snake oil.
                > >
                > > I do know that religions
                > > are a farce created by men
                > > and that "God" was created
                > > in their image. A litmus test
                > > for religion is to see if women
                > > (half the population) are treated
                > > as equals to men. This is a
                > > definite sign that indicates
                > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                > > the men have their ancient
                > > scripture and explanations
                > > why it's all for and by men
                > > but God would never allow
                > > that to be true.
                > >
                > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                > > is a con there are people
                > > everywhere desperate to
                > > make a living by using their
                > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                > > credentials and awards that
                > > are seeking out a larger audience
                > > of suckers. Some of these
                > > people have actually deluded
                > > themselves into believing
                > > the spiel, but this helps them
                > > to be more convincing as well.
                > > Klemp is one of these people
                > > and he's found his little niche
                > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                > >
                > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                > >
                > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                > >
                > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                > > mystery science that goes back
                > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                > > Right?
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                > >
                > > The book will be available for free
                > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                > > for five days from April 29 through
                > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                > > for a fair and impartial review.
                > >
                > > Stefan
                > >
                > > Prometheus wrote:
                > > > Hello All,
                > > > Thanks Stephan for
                > > > the review that mentions
                > > > the League (Eckankar).
                > > >
                > > > The person who wrote
                > > > that review is also an
                > > > author of the below
                > > > book on Amazon.com
                > > >
                > > > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                > > >
                > > > On page 2 he writes:
                > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                > > > science fails to explain anything
                > > > mysterious or that which falls
                > > > outside of that awareness."
                > > >
                > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                > > > this is true. We have a rational
                > > > awareness that there are still
                > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                > > > is shining, but lately science
                > > > has come to know more about
                > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                > > > information falls outside of our
                > > > own awareness.
                > > >
                > > > However, his book does look
                > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                > > > like a modern remake regarding
                > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                > > > balance was not a key approach
                > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                > > > man has a yearning for work...
                > > > yearning is all you need to have
                > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                > > >
                > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                > > > available online for free I'd give
                > > > it a critique.
                > > >
                > > > Prometheus
                > > >
                > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Prometheus:
                > > >
                > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                > > > day.
                > > >
                > > > Thought you might be interested
                > > > in what he says about the book.
                > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                > > >
                > > > Stefan
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • etznab18
                I am curious about the year that Stephan started to write his book. It seems that he did interview a number of Eckists in the past and those interviews remain
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 13, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  I am curious about the year that Stephan started to write his book. It seems that he did interview a number of Eckists in the past and those interviews remain linked to "The Spiritual Traveller" site.

                  http://www.spiritualtraveler.com/spiritual_traveler/interviews.asp

                  So I was just curious. If he is not an active Eckankar member, what year did that happen?

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > http://tinyurl.com/ccwha6m
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > EXACTLY!!
                  > >
                  > > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                  > >
                  > > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery really.
                  > >
                  > > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                  > >
                  > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Hello All,
                  > > > I don't want to say that
                  > > > I have a closed mind
                  > > > about all of this "spiritual"
                  > > > stuff but it does make
                  > > > one wonder about credibility.
                  > > >
                  > > > We've all been burned by
                  > > > cons and conmen of various
                  > > > sorts selling various concoctions
                  > > > of snake oil.
                  > > >
                  > > > I do know that religions
                  > > > are a farce created by men
                  > > > and that "God" was created
                  > > > in their image. A litmus test
                  > > > for religion is to see if women
                  > > > (half the population) are treated
                  > > > as equals to men. This is a
                  > > > definite sign that indicates
                  > > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                  > > > the men have their ancient
                  > > > scripture and explanations
                  > > > why it's all for and by men
                  > > > but God would never allow
                  > > > that to be true.
                  > > >
                  > > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                  > > > is a con there are people
                  > > > everywhere desperate to
                  > > > make a living by using their
                  > > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                  > > > credentials and awards that
                  > > > are seeking out a larger audience
                  > > > of suckers. Some of these
                  > > > people have actually deluded
                  > > > themselves into believing
                  > > > the spiel, but this helps them
                  > > > to be more convincing as well.
                  > > > Klemp is one of these people
                  > > > and he's found his little niche
                  > > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                  > > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                  > > >
                  > > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                  > > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                  > > >
                  > > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                  > > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                  > > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                  > > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                  > > > mystery science that goes back
                  > > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                  > > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                  > > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                  > > > Right?
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  > > >
                  > > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > The book will be available for free
                  > > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                  > > > for five days from April 29 through
                  > > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                  > > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                  > > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                  > > > for a fair and impartial review.
                  > > >
                  > > > Stefan
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus wrote:
                  > > > > Hello All,
                  > > > > Thanks Stephan for
                  > > > > the review that mentions
                  > > > > the League (Eckankar).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > The person who wrote
                  > > > > that review is also an
                  > > > > author of the below
                  > > > > book on Amazon.com
                  > > > >
                  > > > > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                  > > > >
                  > > > > On page 2 he writes:
                  > > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                  > > > > science fails to explain anything
                  > > > > mysterious or that which falls
                  > > > > outside of that awareness."
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                  > > > > this is true. We have a rational
                  > > > > awareness that there are still
                  > > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                  > > > > is shining, but lately science
                  > > > > has come to know more about
                  > > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                  > > > > information falls outside of our
                  > > > > own awareness.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > However, his book does look
                  > > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                  > > > > like a modern remake regarding
                  > > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                  > > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                  > > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                  > > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                  > > > > balance was not a key approach
                  > > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                  > > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                  > > > > man has a yearning for work...
                  > > > > yearning is all you need to have
                  > > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                  > > > >
                  > > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                  > > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                  > > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                  > > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                  > > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                  > > > > available online for free I'd give
                  > > > > it a critique.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Prometheus
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Prometheus:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                  > > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                  > > > > day.
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Thought you might be interested
                  > > > > in what he says about the book.
                  > > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Stefan
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • etznab18
                  The Spiritual Resources link includes Eckankar and Doug Marman s site Spiritual Dialogues Project. So I am still not for certain what this person s current
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 13, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    The Spiritual Resources link includes Eckankar and Doug Marman's site Spiritual Dialogues Project. So I am still not for certain what this person's current affiliation with "The League" is now.

                    Granted, the Web pages are from 2012.

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I am curious about the year that Stephan started to write his book. It seems that he did interview a number of Eckists in the past and those interviews remain linked to "The Spiritual Traveller" site.
                    >
                    > http://www.spiritualtraveler.com/spiritual_traveler/interviews.asp
                    >
                    > So I was just curious. If he is not an active Eckankar member, what year did that happen?
                    >
                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > http://tinyurl.com/ccwha6m
                    > >
                    > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > EXACTLY!!
                    > > >
                    > > > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                    > > >
                    > > > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery really.
                    > > >
                    > > > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hello All,
                    > > > > I don't want to say that
                    > > > > I have a closed mind
                    > > > > about all of this "spiritual"
                    > > > > stuff but it does make
                    > > > > one wonder about credibility.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > We've all been burned by
                    > > > > cons and conmen of various
                    > > > > sorts selling various concoctions
                    > > > > of snake oil.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I do know that religions
                    > > > > are a farce created by men
                    > > > > and that "God" was created
                    > > > > in their image. A litmus test
                    > > > > for religion is to see if women
                    > > > > (half the population) are treated
                    > > > > as equals to men. This is a
                    > > > > definite sign that indicates
                    > > > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                    > > > > the men have their ancient
                    > > > > scripture and explanations
                    > > > > why it's all for and by men
                    > > > > but God would never allow
                    > > > > that to be true.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                    > > > > is a con there are people
                    > > > > everywhere desperate to
                    > > > > make a living by using their
                    > > > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                    > > > > credentials and awards that
                    > > > > are seeking out a larger audience
                    > > > > of suckers. Some of these
                    > > > > people have actually deluded
                    > > > > themselves into believing
                    > > > > the spiel, but this helps them
                    > > > > to be more convincing as well.
                    > > > > Klemp is one of these people
                    > > > > and he's found his little niche
                    > > > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                    > > > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                    > > > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                    > > > >
                    > > > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                    > > > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                    > > > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                    > > > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                    > > > > mystery science that goes back
                    > > > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                    > > > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                    > > > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                    > > > > Right?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Prometheus
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The book will be available for free
                    > > > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                    > > > > for five days from April 29 through
                    > > > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                    > > > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                    > > > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                    > > > > for a fair and impartial review.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Stefan
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Prometheus wrote:
                    > > > > > Hello All,
                    > > > > > Thanks Stephan for
                    > > > > > the review that mentions
                    > > > > > the League (Eckankar).
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > The person who wrote
                    > > > > > that review is also an
                    > > > > > author of the below
                    > > > > > book on Amazon.com
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > On page 2 he writes:
                    > > > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                    > > > > > science fails to explain anything
                    > > > > > mysterious or that which falls
                    > > > > > outside of that awareness."
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                    > > > > > this is true. We have a rational
                    > > > > > awareness that there are still
                    > > > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                    > > > > > is shining, but lately science
                    > > > > > has come to know more about
                    > > > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                    > > > > > information falls outside of our
                    > > > > > own awareness.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > However, his book does look
                    > > > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                    > > > > > like a modern remake regarding
                    > > > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                    > > > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                    > > > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                    > > > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                    > > > > > balance was not a key approach
                    > > > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                    > > > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                    > > > > > man has a yearning for work...
                    > > > > > yearning is all you need to have
                    > > > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                    > > > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                    > > > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                    > > > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                    > > > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                    > > > > > available online for free I'd give
                    > > > > > it a critique.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Prometheus
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Prometheus:
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                    > > > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                    > > > > > day.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Thought you might be interested
                    > > > > > in what he says about the book.
                    > > > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Stefan
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Diana Stanley
                    women will never be Masters this goes for maost religions. I quess because women don t have a rod powerful or other wise Diana
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 13, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      women will never be Masters this goes for maost religions. I quess because women don't have a rod powerful or other wise
                      Diana
                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > EXACTLY!!
                      >
                      > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                      >
                      > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery really.
                      >
                      > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Hello All,
                      > > I don't want to say that
                      > > I have a closed mind
                      > > about all of this "spiritual"
                      > > stuff but it does make
                      > > one wonder about credibility.
                      > >
                      > > We've all been burned by
                      > > cons and conmen of various
                      > > sorts selling various concoctions
                      > > of snake oil.
                      > >
                      > > I do know that religions
                      > > are a farce created by men
                      > > and that "God" was created
                      > > in their image. A litmus test
                      > > for religion is to see if women
                      > > (half the population) are treated
                      > > as equals to men. This is a
                      > > definite sign that indicates
                      > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                      > > the men have their ancient
                      > > scripture and explanations
                      > > why it's all for and by men
                      > > but God would never allow
                      > > that to be true.
                      > >
                      > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                      > > is a con there are people
                      > > everywhere desperate to
                      > > make a living by using their
                      > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                      > > credentials and awards that
                      > > are seeking out a larger audience
                      > > of suckers. Some of these
                      > > people have actually deluded
                      > > themselves into believing
                      > > the spiel, but this helps them
                      > > to be more convincing as well.
                      > > Klemp is one of these people
                      > > and he's found his little niche
                      > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                      > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                      > >
                      > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                      > >
                      > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                      > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                      > >
                      > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                      > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                      > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                      > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                      > > mystery science that goes back
                      > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                      > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                      > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                      > > Right?
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus
                      > >
                      > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                      > >
                      > > The book will be available for free
                      > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                      > > for five days from April 29 through
                      > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                      > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                      > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                      > > for a fair and impartial review.
                      > >
                      > > Stefan
                      > >
                      > > Prometheus wrote:
                      > > > Hello All,
                      > > > Thanks Stephan for
                      > > > the review that mentions
                      > > > the League (Eckankar).
                      > > >
                      > > > The person who wrote
                      > > > that review is also an
                      > > > author of the below
                      > > > book on Amazon.com
                      > > >
                      > > > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                      > > >
                      > > > On page 2 he writes:
                      > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                      > > > science fails to explain anything
                      > > > mysterious or that which falls
                      > > > outside of that awareness."
                      > > >
                      > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                      > > > this is true. We have a rational
                      > > > awareness that there are still
                      > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                      > > > is shining, but lately science
                      > > > has come to know more about
                      > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                      > > > information falls outside of our
                      > > > own awareness.
                      > > >
                      > > > However, his book does look
                      > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                      > > > like a modern remake regarding
                      > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                      > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                      > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                      > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                      > > > balance was not a key approach
                      > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                      > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                      > > > man has a yearning for work...
                      > > > yearning is all you need to have
                      > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                      > > >
                      > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                      > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                      > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                      > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                      > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                      > > > available online for free I'd give
                      > > > it a critique.
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus
                      > > >
                      > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Prometheus:
                      > > >
                      > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                      > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                      > > > day.
                      > > >
                      > > > Thought you might be interested
                      > > > in what he says about the book.
                      > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                      > > >
                      > > > Stefan
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • etznab18
                      In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a serpent designated the
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 13, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                        deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                        serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).

                        http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html

                        According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                        kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests at
                        the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                        serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                        example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term kundali
                        ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]

                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology

                        I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic for
                        the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine is a
                        "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men both
                        have these.

                        What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests Shakti,
                        IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without "energy",
                        or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                        "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man even
                        be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?

                        Just saying :)





                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Diana Stanley <dianastanley43@...>
                        To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                        <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sat, Apr 13, 2013 8:36 pm
                        Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Review of The Karma Seeker

                         
                        women will never be Masters this goes for maost religions. I quess
                        because women don't have a rod powerful or other wise
                        Diana
                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel"
                        <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > EXACTLY!!
                        >
                        > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of
                        Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta.
                        More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                        >
                        > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on
                        the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery
                        really.
                        >
                        > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll
                        be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic
                        that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and
                        NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                        >
                        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                        "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello All,
                        > > I don't want to say that
                        > > I have a closed mind
                        > > about all of this "spiritual"
                        > > stuff but it does make
                        > > one wonder about credibility.
                        > >
                        > > We've all been burned by
                        > > cons and conmen of various
                        > > sorts selling various concoctions
                        > > of snake oil.
                        > >
                        > > I do know that religions
                        > > are a farce created by men
                        > > and that "God" was created
                        > > in their image. A litmus test
                        > > for religion is to see if women
                        > > (half the population) are treated
                        > > as equals to men. This is a
                        > > definite sign that indicates
                        > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                        > > the men have their ancient
                        > > scripture and explanations
                        > > why it's all for and by men
                        > > but God would never allow
                        > > that to be true.
                        > >
                        > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                        > > is a con there are people
                        > > everywhere desperate to
                        > > make a living by using their
                        > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                        > > credentials and awards that
                        > > are seeking out a larger audience
                        > > of suckers. Some of these
                        > > people have actually deluded
                        > > themselves into believing
                        > > the spiel, but this helps them
                        > > to be more convincing as well.
                        > > Klemp is one of these people
                        > > and he's found his little niche
                        > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                        > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                        > >
                        > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                        > >
                        > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                        > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                        > >
                        > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                        > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                        > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                        > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                        > > mystery science that goes back
                        > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                        > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                        > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                        > > Right?
                        > >
                        > > Prometheus
                        > >
                        > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The book will be available for free
                        > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                        > > for five days from April 29 through
                        > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                        > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                        > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                        > > for a fair and impartial review.
                        > >
                        > > Stefan
                        > >
                        > > Prometheus wrote:
                        > > > Hello All,
                        > > > Thanks Stephan for
                        > > > the review that mentions
                        > > > the League (Eckankar).
                        > > >
                        > > > The person who wrote
                        > > > that review is also an
                        > > > author of the below
                        > > > book on Amazon.com
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                        > > >
                        > > > On page 2 he writes:
                        > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                        > > > science fails to explain anything
                        > > > mysterious or that which falls
                        > > > outside of that awareness."
                        > > >
                        > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                        > > > this is true. We have a rational
                        > > > awareness that there are still
                        > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                        > > > is shining, but lately science
                        > > > has come to know more about
                        > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                        > > > information falls outside of our
                        > > > own awareness.
                        > > >
                        > > > However, his book does look
                        > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                        > > > like a modern remake regarding
                        > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                        > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                        > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                        > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                        > > > balance was not a key approach
                        > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                        > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                        > > > man has a yearning for work...
                        > > > yearning is all you need to have
                        > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                        > > >
                        > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                        > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                        > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                        > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                        > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                        > > > available online for free I'd give
                        > > > it a critique.
                        > > >
                        > > > Prometheus
                        > > >
                        > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Prometheus:
                        > > >
                        > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                        > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                        > > > day.
                        > > >
                        > > > Thought you might be interested
                        > > > in what he says about the book.
                        > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                        > > >
                        > > > Stefan
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • noneckchains
                        I think she is referring to Rod in the patriarchal sense of the male organ, known by some as an erect penis...:) I believe it is true that in religion
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 13, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I think she is referring to "Rod" in the patriarchal sense of the male organ, known by some as an erect penis...:) I believe it is true that in religion generally, males have had the power and have attempted to keep women in their place, although sometimes brainwashed women also preach the same thing and apparently wish to be subservient to males. Earth based religions may be different,in that women have often had an equal or even a major role in society.

                          "Rod of Power" I suppose could have different meanings and kundalini energy and the spine is interesting. I don't recall "Rod of Power" being defined this way in eckankar though.

                          Non ;)

                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                          >
                          > In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                          > deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                          > serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).
                          >
                          > http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html
                          >
                          > According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                          > kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests at
                          > the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                          > serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                          > example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term kundali
                          > ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]
                          >
                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology
                          >
                          > I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic for
                          > the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine is a
                          > "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men both
                          > have these.
                          >
                          > What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests Shakti,
                          > IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without "energy",
                          > or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                          > "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man even
                          > be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?
                          >
                          > Just saying :)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Diana Stanley <dianastanley43@...>
                          > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                          > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                          > Sent: Sat, Apr 13, 2013 8:36 pm
                          > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Review of The Karma Seeker
                          >
                          >  
                          > women will never be Masters this goes for maost religions. I quess
                          > because women don't have a rod powerful or other wise
                          > Diana
                          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel"
                          > harrisonferrel@ wrote:
                          > >
                          > > EXACTLY!!
                          > >
                          > > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of
                          > Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta.
                          > More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                          > >
                          > > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on
                          > the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery
                          > really.
                          > >
                          > > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll
                          > be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic
                          > that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and
                          > NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                          > >
                          > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                          > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hello All,
                          > > > I don't want to say that
                          > > > I have a closed mind
                          > > > about all of this "spiritual"
                          > > > stuff but it does make
                          > > > one wonder about credibility.
                          > > >
                          > > > We've all been burned by
                          > > > cons and conmen of various
                          > > > sorts selling various concoctions
                          > > > of snake oil.
                          > > >
                          > > > I do know that religions
                          > > > are a farce created by men
                          > > > and that "God" was created
                          > > > in their image. A litmus test
                          > > > for religion is to see if women
                          > > > (half the population) are treated
                          > > > as equals to men. This is a
                          > > > definite sign that indicates
                          > > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                          > > > the men have their ancient
                          > > > scripture and explanations
                          > > > why it's all for and by men
                          > > > but God would never allow
                          > > > that to be true.
                          > > >
                          > > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                          > > > is a con there are people
                          > > > everywhere desperate to
                          > > > make a living by using their
                          > > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                          > > > credentials and awards that
                          > > > are seeking out a larger audience
                          > > > of suckers. Some of these
                          > > > people have actually deluded
                          > > > themselves into believing
                          > > > the spiel, but this helps them
                          > > > to be more convincing as well.
                          > > > Klemp is one of these people
                          > > > and he's found his little niche
                          > > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                          > > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                          > > >
                          > > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                          > > >
                          > > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                          > > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                          > > >
                          > > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                          > > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                          > > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                          > > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                          > > > mystery science that goes back
                          > > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                          > > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                          > > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                          > > > Right?
                          > > >
                          > > > Prometheus
                          > > >
                          > > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > The book will be available for free
                          > > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                          > > > for five days from April 29 through
                          > > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                          > > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                          > > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                          > > > for a fair and impartial review.
                          > > >
                          > > > Stefan
                          > > >
                          > > > Prometheus wrote:
                          > > > > Hello All,
                          > > > > Thanks Stephan for
                          > > > > the review that mentions
                          > > > > the League (Eckankar).
                          > > > >
                          > > > > The person who wrote
                          > > > > that review is also an
                          > > > > author of the below
                          > > > > book on Amazon.com
                          > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                          > > > >
                          > > > > On page 2 he writes:
                          > > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                          > > > > science fails to explain anything
                          > > > > mysterious or that which falls
                          > > > > outside of that awareness."
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                          > > > > this is true. We have a rational
                          > > > > awareness that there are still
                          > > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                          > > > > is shining, but lately science
                          > > > > has come to know more about
                          > > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                          > > > > information falls outside of our
                          > > > > own awareness.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > However, his book does look
                          > > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                          > > > > like a modern remake regarding
                          > > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                          > > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                          > > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                          > > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                          > > > > balance was not a key approach
                          > > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                          > > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                          > > > > man has a yearning for work...
                          > > > > yearning is all you need to have
                          > > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                          > > > >
                          > > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                          > > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                          > > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                          > > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                          > > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                          > > > > available online for free I'd give
                          > > > > it a critique.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Prometheus
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Prometheus:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                          > > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                          > > > > day.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Thought you might be interested
                          > > > > in what he says about the book.
                          > > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Stefan
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • etznab18
                          Rod of Power I suppose could have different meanings and kundalini energy and the spine is interesting. I don t recall Rod of Power being defined this way
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 14, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            "Rod of Power" I suppose could have different meanings and kundalini
                            energy and the spine is interesting. I don't recall "Rod of Power"
                            being defined this way in eckankar though.

                            I'm not sure there is much description in Eckankar. However, here is
                            what Paul Twitchell's dictionary said:

                            ROD OF POWER The power of the Word of God which is given to that being
                            who has been chosen, by the ECK as it descends and enters into the new
                            Master; the power which makes him the actual manifestation of God at
                            the rites of the initiation of accepting the Rod of ECK Power; the
                            power of the Mahanta consciousness.

                            One of my earlier quotes from the Internet read:

                            In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                            deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                            serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).

                            So Eckankar has "The power of the Word of God ... ."

                            If one looks at the section entitled Christ the Logos it reads as if
                            the "Word" is masculine.

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos#Christ_the_Logos

                            This is not the case in all religions. In Hinduism the power of
                            creation is often associated with a Goddess. Example, Prakriti.

                            Prakrti or Prakriti or Prakruti (from Sanskrit language प्रकृति,
                            prakṛti) means "nature".[1] It is, according to Hinduism, the basic
                            nature of intelligence by which the Universe exists and functions. It
                            is described in Bhagavad Gita as the "primal motive force". It is the
                            essential constituent of the universe and is at the basis of all the
                            activity of the creation.

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prakriti





                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: noneckchains <eckchains@...>
                            To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                            <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Sat, Apr 13, 2013 11:23 pm
                            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Review of The Karma Seeker

                             
                            I think she is referring to "Rod" in the patriarchal sense of the male
                            organ, known by some as an erect penis...:) I believe it is true that
                            in religion generally, males have had the power and have attempted to
                            keep women in their place, although sometimes brainwashed women also
                            preach the same thing and apparently wish to be subservient to males.
                            Earth based religions may be different,in that women have often had an
                            equal or even a major role in society.

                            "Rod of Power" I suppose could have different meanings and kundalini
                            energy and the spine is interesting. I don't recall "Rod of Power"
                            being defined this way in eckankar though.

                            Non ;)

                            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                            >
                            > In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                            > deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                            > serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).
                            >
                            > http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html
                            >
                            > According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                            > kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests
                            at
                            > the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                            > serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                            > example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term
                            kundali
                            > ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]
                            >
                            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology
                            >
                            > I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic
                            for
                            > the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine
                            is a
                            > "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men
                            both
                            > have these.
                            >
                            > What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests
                            Shakti,
                            > IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without
                            "energy",
                            > or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                            > "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man
                            even
                            > be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?
                            >
                            > Just saying :)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Diana Stanley <dianastanley43@...>
                            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                            > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Sat, Apr 13, 2013 8:36 pm
                            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Review of The Karma
                            Seeker
                            >
                            >  
                            > women will never be Masters this goes for maost religions. I quess
                            > because women don't have a rod powerful or other wise
                            > Diana
                            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                            "harrisonferrel"
                            > harrisonferrel@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > EXACTLY!!
                            > >
                            > > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of
                            > Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the
                            Mahanta.
                            > More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                            > >
                            > > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany
                            Hughes on
                            > the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery
                            > really.
                            > >
                            > > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then
                            you'll
                            > be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something
                            fantastic
                            > that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible
                            and
                            > NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                            > >
                            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                            > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hello All,
                            > > > I don't want to say that
                            > > > I have a closed mind
                            > > > about all of this "spiritual"
                            > > > stuff but it does make
                            > > > one wonder about credibility.
                            > > >
                            > > > We've all been burned by
                            > > > cons and conmen of various
                            > > > sorts selling various concoctions
                            > > > of snake oil.
                            > > >
                            > > > I do know that religions
                            > > > are a farce created by men
                            > > > and that "God" was created
                            > > > in their image. A litmus test
                            > > > for religion is to see if women
                            > > > (half the population) are treated
                            > > > as equals to men. This is a
                            > > > definite sign that indicates
                            > > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                            > > > the men have their ancient
                            > > > scripture and explanations
                            > > > why it's all for and by men
                            > > > but God would never allow
                            > > > that to be true.
                            > > >
                            > > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                            > > > is a con there are people
                            > > > everywhere desperate to
                            > > > make a living by using their
                            > > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                            > > > credentials and awards that
                            > > > are seeking out a larger audience
                            > > > of suckers. Some of these
                            > > > people have actually deluded
                            > > > themselves into believing
                            > > > the spiel, but this helps them
                            > > > to be more convincing as well.
                            > > > Klemp is one of these people
                            > > > and he's found his little niche
                            > > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                            > > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                            > > >
                            > > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                            > > >
                            > > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                            > > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                            > > >
                            > > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                            > > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                            > > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                            > > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                            > > > mystery science that goes back
                            > > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                            > > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                            > > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                            > > > Right?
                            > > >
                            > > > Prometheus
                            > > >
                            > > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > The book will be available for free
                            > > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                            > > > for five days from April 29 through
                            > > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                            > > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                            > > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                            > > > for a fair and impartial review.
                            > > >
                            > > > Stefan
                            > > >
                            > > > Prometheus wrote:
                            > > > > Hello All,
                            > > > > Thanks Stephan for
                            > > > > the review that mentions
                            > > > > the League (Eckankar).
                            > > > >
                            > > > > The person who wrote
                            > > > > that review is also an
                            > > > > author of the below
                            > > > > book on Amazon.com
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                            > > > >
                            > > > > On page 2 he writes:
                            > > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                            > > > > science fails to explain anything
                            > > > > mysterious or that which falls
                            > > > > outside of that awareness."
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                            > > > > this is true. We have a rational
                            > > > > awareness that there are still
                            > > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                            > > > > is shining, but lately science
                            > > > > has come to know more about
                            > > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                            > > > > information falls outside of our
                            > > > > own awareness.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > However, his book does look
                            > > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                            > > > > like a modern remake regarding
                            > > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                            > > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                            > > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                            > > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                            > > > > balance was not a key approach
                            > > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                            > > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                            > > > > man has a yearning for work...
                            > > > > yearning is all you need to have
                            > > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                            > > > >
                            > > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                            > > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                            > > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                            > > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                            > > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                            > > > > available online for free I'd give
                            > > > > it a critique.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Prometheus
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Prometheus:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                            > > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                            > > > > day.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Thought you might be interested
                            > > > > in what he says about the book.
                            > > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Stefan
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • prometheus_973
                            Hello Non and All, I really don t see that women have often had an equal or even a major role in society. Major role yes, equal role no. Women are unequals
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 14, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hello Non and All,
                              I really don't see that
                              "women have often
                              had an equal or even
                              a major role in society."
                              Major role yes, equal
                              role no. Women are
                              unequals in government,
                              business, and religion.
                              50% of the population
                              are women but they aren't
                              represented, proportionately,
                              in high office. It's a private
                              boy's club. Just look at
                              the Master's Golf Tournament
                              as well as the Augusta
                              Country Club memberships.
                              And, let's not forget that
                              Black men had the right
                              to vote before all women.

                              Prometheus
                              p.s. What does "Earth based
                              religions may be different"
                              mean?
                              All religions are manmade
                              and their God was created in
                              man's own physical and/or
                              mental image.
                              If there were more advanced
                              civilizations out there in the
                              universes, which there probably
                              are, I would doubt very much
                              that they believe in religion.


                              noneckchains wrote:
                              I think she is referring to "Rod"
                              in the patriarchal sense of the
                              male organ, known by some as
                              an erect penis...:)

                              I believe it is true that in religion
                              generally, males have had the
                              power and have attempted to
                              keep women in their place, although
                              sometimes brainwashed women
                              also preach the same thing and
                              apparently wish to be subservient
                              to males.


                              Earth based religions may be
                              different, in that women have
                              often had an equal or even a
                              major role in society.


                              "Rod of Power" I suppose
                              could have different meanings
                              and kundalini energy and
                              the spine is interesting. I don't
                              recall "Rod of Power" being
                              defined this way in eckankar
                              though.

                              Non ;)

                              etznab@... wrote:
                              >
                              > In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                              > deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                              > serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).
                              >
                              http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html
                              >
                              > According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                              > kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests at
                              > the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                              > serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                              > example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term kundali
                              > ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]
                              >
                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology
                              >
                              > I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic for
                              > the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine is a
                              > "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men both
                              > have these.
                              >
                              > What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests Shakti,
                              > IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without "energy",
                              > or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                              > "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man even
                              > be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?
                              >
                              > Just saying :)
                            • noneckchains
                              Prometheus, Your quote of me is taken out of context and I wasn t speaking of the present time, necessarily. I m a little confused by your response, to be
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 15, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Prometheus,

                                Your quote of me is taken out of context and I wasn't speaking of the present time, necessarily. I'm a little confused by your response, to be honest. Anyway....

                                I think I was referring to some Earth Based religion or spirituality, such as Native American, in which there is an emphasis on "Mother Earth" and a relationship and reverence for Nature as sacred, a desire to live in harmony and respect for life. Of course some of this may be stereotypes, and not true in all cases. I recall a documentary about Natives, in which women had the final say in major decisions. At the same time, there were roles to be played by women and men. Another documentary, The Burning Times, shows how there was an attempt to destroy any remnant of a strong role for women in spirituality and culture, as the patriarchal Churches became extremely entrenched in the further subjugation of women. But the film does point to a time in which women, in usually Earth Based spirituality, did seem to have a more equal footing.

                                I admit that what I have written is kind of sketchy and that I have not provided specific sources. I will just say that I personally, tend to identify with a more Nature form of spirituality, that does not necessarily have an anthropomorphized "God".

                                Non ;)

                                P.S. here is one source on ancient Celtic society and women.

                                http://www.celtlearn.org/pdfs/women.pdf

                                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hello Non and All,
                                > I really don't see that
                                > "women have often
                                > had an equal or even
                                > a major role in society."
                                > Major role yes, equal
                                > role no. Women are
                                > unequals in government,
                                > business, and religion.
                                > 50% of the population
                                > are women but they aren't
                                > represented, proportionately,
                                > in high office. It's a private
                                > boy's club. Just look at
                                > the Master's Golf Tournament
                                > as well as the Augusta
                                > Country Club memberships.
                                > And, let's not forget that
                                > Black men had the right
                                > to vote before all women.
                                >
                                > Prometheus
                                > p.s. What does "Earth based
                                > religions may be different"
                                > mean?
                                > All religions are manmade
                                > and their God was created in
                                > man's own physical and/or
                                > mental image.
                                > If there were more advanced
                                > civilizations out there in the
                                > universes, which there probably
                                > are, I would doubt very much
                                > that they believe in religion.
                                >
                                >
                                > noneckchains wrote:
                                > I think she is referring to "Rod"
                                > in the patriarchal sense of the
                                > male organ, known by some as
                                > an erect penis...:)
                                >
                                > I believe it is true that in religion
                                > generally, males have had the
                                > power and have attempted to
                                > keep women in their place, although
                                > sometimes brainwashed women
                                > also preach the same thing and
                                > apparently wish to be subservient
                                > to males.
                                >
                                >
                                > Earth based religions may be
                                > different, in that women have
                                > often had an equal or even a
                                > major role in society.
                                >
                                >
                                > "Rod of Power" I suppose
                                > could have different meanings
                                > and kundalini energy and
                                > the spine is interesting. I don't
                                > recall "Rod of Power" being
                                > defined this way in eckankar
                                > though.
                                >
                                > Non ;)
                                >
                                > etznab@ wrote:
                                > >
                                > > In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                                > > deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                                > > serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).
                                > >
                                > http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html
                                > >
                                > > According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                                > > kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests at
                                > > the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                                > > serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                                > > example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term kundali
                                > > ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]
                                > >
                                > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology
                                > >
                                > > I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic for
                                > > the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine is a
                                > > "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men both
                                > > have these.
                                > >
                                > > What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests Shakti,
                                > > IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without "energy",
                                > > or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                                > > "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man even
                                > > be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?
                                > >
                                > > Just saying :)
                                >
                              • prometheus_973
                                Hello Non, Oh, okay. I thought you were referring to all earth based manmade religions. Of course Scientology claims it isn t earth based and yet it seems to
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 15, 2013
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                                  Hello Non,
                                  Oh, okay. I thought
                                  you were referring
                                  to all earth based
                                  manmade religions.
                                  Of course Scientology
                                  claims it isn't earth
                                  based and yet it seems
                                  to be dominated by
                                  males. Eckankar was
                                  supposed to have
                                  originated or based
                                  on Venus and it is
                                  dominated by only
                                  male LEMs.

                                  Yes, it seems that
                                  women did have
                                  a somewhat better
                                  role in Nature based
                                  religions. But these
                                  are rather minor
                                  and uninfluential
                                  and have almost
                                  died out. Wicca
                                  is another minor
                                  nature based religion.

                                  Prometheus

                                  "noneckchains" wrote:
                                  Prometheus,

                                  Your quote of me is taken out of context and I wasn't speaking of the present
                                  time, necessarily. I'm a little confused by your response, to be honest.
                                  Anyway....

                                  I think I was referring to some Earth Based religion or spirituality, such as
                                  Native American, in which there is an emphasis on "Mother Earth" and a
                                  relationship and reverence for Nature as sacred, a desire to live in harmony and
                                  respect for life. Of course some of this may be stereotypes, and not true in all
                                  cases. I recall a documentary about Natives, in which women had the final say in
                                  major decisions. At the same time, there were roles to be played by women and
                                  men. Another documentary, The Burning Times, shows how there was an attempt to
                                  destroy any remnant of a strong role for women in spirituality and culture, as
                                  the patriarchal Churches became extremely entrenched in the further subjugation
                                  of women. But the film does point to a time in which women, in usually Earth
                                  Based spirituality, did seem to have a more equal footing.

                                  I admit that what I have written is kind of sketchy and that I have not provided
                                  specific sources. I will just say that I personally, tend to identify with a
                                  more Nature form of spirituality, that does not necessarily have an
                                  anthropomorphized "God".

                                  Non ;)

                                  P.S. here is one source on ancient Celtic society and women.

                                  http://www.celtlearn.org/pdfs/women.pdf

                                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                  <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello Non and All,
                                  > I really don't see that
                                  > "women have often
                                  > had an equal or even
                                  > a major role in society."
                                  > Major role yes, equal
                                  > role no. Women are
                                  > unequals in government,
                                  > business, and religion.
                                  > 50% of the population
                                  > are women but they aren't
                                  > represented, proportionately,
                                  > in high office. It's a private
                                  > boy's club. Just look at
                                  > the Master's Golf Tournament
                                  > as well as the Augusta
                                  > Country Club memberships.
                                  > And, let's not forget that
                                  > Black men had the right
                                  > to vote before all women.
                                  >
                                  > Prometheus
                                  > p.s. What does "Earth based
                                  > religions may be different"
                                  > mean?
                                  > All religions are manmade
                                  > and their God was created in
                                  > man's own physical and/or
                                  > mental image.
                                  > If there were more advanced
                                  > civilizations out there in the
                                  > universes, which there probably
                                  > are, I would doubt very much
                                  > that they believe in religion.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > noneckchains wrote:
                                  > I think she is referring to "Rod"
                                  > in the patriarchal sense of the
                                  > male organ, known by some as
                                  > an erect penis...:)
                                  >
                                  > I believe it is true that in religion
                                  > generally, males have had the
                                  > power and have attempted to
                                  > keep women in their place, although
                                  > sometimes brainwashed women
                                  > also preach the same thing and
                                  > apparently wish to be subservient
                                  > to males.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Earth based religions may be
                                  > different, in that women have
                                  > often had an equal or even a
                                  > major role in society.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > "Rod of Power" I suppose
                                  > could have different meanings
                                  > and kundalini energy and
                                  > the spine is interesting. I don't
                                  > recall "Rod of Power" being
                                  > defined this way in eckankar
                                  > though.
                                  >
                                  > Non ;)
                                  >
                                  > etznab@ wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                                  > > deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                                  > > serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).
                                  > >
                                  > http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html
                                  > >
                                  > > According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                                  > > kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests at
                                  > > the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                                  > > serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                                  > > example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term kundali
                                  > > ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]
                                  > >
                                  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology
                                  > >
                                  > > I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic for
                                  > > the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine is a
                                  > > "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men both
                                  > > have these.
                                  > >
                                  > > What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests Shakti,
                                  > > IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without "energy",
                                  > > or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                                  > > "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man even
                                  > > be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?
                                  > >
                                  > > Just saying :)
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