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Review of The Karma Seeker

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  • Stefan G. Meyer
    Prometheus: Got an unsolicited review of The Karma Seeker the other day. Thought you might be interested in what he says about the book. http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 8 12:09 PM
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      Prometheus:
       
      Got an unsolicited review of The Karma Seeker the other day. Thought you might be interested in what he says about the book.
       
      Stefan
       
    • prometheus_973
      Hello All, Thanks Stephan for the review that mentions the League (Eckankar). The person who wrote that review is also an author of the below book on
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 8 2:54 PM
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        Hello All,
        Thanks Stephan for
        the review that mentions
        the League (Eckankar).

        The person who wrote
        that review is also an
        author of the below
        book on Amazon.com

        http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847

        On page 2 he writes:
        "Outside of rational awareness,
        science fails to explain anything
        mysterious or that which falls
        outside of that awareness."

        Actually, I'm not so sure that
        this is true. We have a rational
        awareness that there are still
        stars in the sky when the sun
        is shining, but lately science
        has come to know more about
        mysterious Black Holes and this
        information falls outside of our
        own awareness.

        However, his book does look
        interesting, although, it sounds
        like a modern remake regarding
        the thoughts and perspectives
        of Eastern religious leaders of
        the distant past... Ramakrishna
        for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
        balance was not a key approach
        to seeking God. One is to have
        a yearning for God as a jobless
        man has a yearning for work...
        yearning is all you need to have
        in order to realize Him (paraphrased).

        In any case "The Karma Seeker"
        looks like it gives an interesting
        look at the mindset of Eckists.
        I haven't read the book and don't
        plan on buying it. If it becomes
        available online for free I'd give
        it a critique.

        Prometheus

        Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:

        Prometheus:

        Got an unsolicited review of
        The Karma Seeker the other
        day.

        Thought you might be interested
        in what he says about the book.
        http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX

        Stefan
      • harrisonferrel
        I d like to weigh in here... Based on this statement: Outside of rational awareness, science fails to explain anything mysterious or that which falls outside
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 8 4:01 PM
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          I'd like to weigh in here...

          Based on this statement: "Outside of rational awareness, science fails to explain anything mysterious or that which falls outside of that awareness."

          I think that this statement is a copout used by eckists and other religious people to keep from having their ideas and so-called experiences dismissed as workings of the brain. It's used all the time to rationalize their reasons for believing in the unknown. If you read a lot of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and their ilk you'll get a pretty good idea of how much science serves us in understanding the experiences that religious people are wont to say are mysterious. Mysterious, yes, but only to the ignorant.

          And, you're right, science does indeed know a lot about the workings of the brain and mind that are not part of the rational mind. To say that this is not true is to be ignorant of the depth of scientific knowledge, including psychology and neuroscience. Further, just because we do not know something does not mean there is no answer. It's pretty presumptuous to say what the limits of scientific knowledge are.

          Eckankar and other cults rely on ignorance. They teach about inner experiences that neuroscience can duplicate through stimulation of various parts of the brain. I think it's better to say "I don't know" than to presume that what I am experience is otherworldly and just too far out for science to comprehend or reveal.


          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello All,
          > Thanks Stephan for
          > the review that mentions
          > the League (Eckankar).
          >
          > The person who wrote
          > that review is also an
          > author of the below
          > book on Amazon.com
          >
          > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
          >
          > On page 2 he writes:
          > "Outside of rational awareness,
          > science fails to explain anything
          > mysterious or that which falls
          > outside of that awareness."
          >
          > Actually, I'm not so sure that
          > this is true. We have a rational
          > awareness that there are still
          > stars in the sky when the sun
          > is shining, but lately science
          > has come to know more about
          > mysterious Black Holes and this
          > information falls outside of our
          > own awareness.
          >
          > However, his book does look
          > interesting, although, it sounds
          > like a modern remake regarding
          > the thoughts and perspectives
          > of Eastern religious leaders of
          > the distant past... Ramakrishna
          > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
          > balance was not a key approach
          > to seeking God. One is to have
          > a yearning for God as a jobless
          > man has a yearning for work...
          > yearning is all you need to have
          > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
          >
          > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
          > looks like it gives an interesting
          > look at the mindset of Eckists.
          > I haven't read the book and don't
          > plan on buying it. If it becomes
          > available online for free I'd give
          > it a critique.
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
          >
          > Prometheus:
          >
          > Got an unsolicited review of
          > The Karma Seeker the other
          > day.
          >
          > Thought you might be interested
          > in what he says about the book.
          > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
          >
          > Stefan
          >
        • Stefan G. Meyer
          The book will be available for free Kindle download on amazon.com for five days from April 29 through May 3. However, I d also be willing to send a copy as an
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 8 4:02 PM
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            The book will be available for free Kindle download on amazon.com for five days from April 29 through May 3. However, I'd also be willing to send a copy as an e-mail attachment in Word or PDF format in exchange for a fair and impartial review.
             
            Stefan
             
            Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 5:54 PM
            Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Review of The Karma Seeker

             

            Hello All,
            Thanks Stephan for
            the review that mentions
            the League (Eckankar).

            The person who wrote
            that review is also an
            author of the below
            book on Amazon.com

            http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847

            On page 2 he writes:
            "Outside of rational awareness,
            science fails to explain anything
            mysterious or that which falls
            outside of that awareness."

            Actually, I'm not so sure that
            this is true. We have a rational
            awareness that there are still
            stars in the sky when the sun
            is shining, but lately science
            has come to know more about
            mysterious Black Holes and this
            information falls outside of our
            own awareness.

            However, his book does look
            interesting, although, it sounds
            like a modern remake regarding
            the thoughts and perspectives
            of Eastern religious leaders of
            the distant past... Ramakrishna
            for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
            balance was not a key approach
            to seeking God. One is to have
            a yearning for God as a jobless
            man has a yearning for work...
            yearning is all you need to have
            in order to realize Him (paraphrased).

            In any case "The Karma Seeker"
            looks like it gives an interesting
            look at the mindset of Eckists.
            I haven't read the book and don't
            plan on buying it. If it becomes
            available online for free I'd give
            it a critique.

            Prometheus

            Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:

            Prometheus:

            Got an unsolicited review of
            The Karma Seeker the other
            day.

            Thought you might be interested
            in what he says about the book.
            http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX

            Stefan

          • prometheus_973
            Hello All, I don t want to say that I have a closed mind about all of this spiritual stuff but it does make one wonder about credibility. We ve all been
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 9 11:45 AM
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              Hello All,
              I don't want to say that
              I have a closed mind
              about all of this "spiritual"
              stuff but it does make
              one wonder about credibility.

              We've all been burned by
              cons and conmen of various
              sorts selling various concoctions
              of snake oil.

              I do know that religions
              are a farce created by men
              and that "God" was created
              in their image. A litmus test
              for religion is to see if women
              (half the population) are treated
              as equals to men. This is a
              definite sign that indicates
              that it is a false religion. Sure,
              the men have their ancient
              scripture and explanations
              why it's all for and by men
              but God would never allow
              that to be true.

              Just as Adam Dream Healer
              is a con there are people
              everywhere desperate to
              make a living by using their
              wits (street smarts) or educational
              credentials and awards that
              are seeking out a larger audience
              of suckers. Some of these
              people have actually deluded
              themselves into believing
              the spiel, but this helps them
              to be more convincing as well.
              Klemp is one of these people
              and he's found his little niche
              with Eckankar. Anyway here's
              what Stefan Meyer is into:

              http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php

              The Ancient Science of Cards,
              btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!

              So, it sounds kind of like The
              Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
              It's not Tarot or Astrology and
              it's not psychic. It's an ancient
              mystery science that goes back
              to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
              has to be true. It can't be a con
              nor pretend or wishful thinking.
              Right?

              Prometheus

              Stefan G. Meyer wrote:

              The book will be available for free
              Kindle download on amazon.com
              for five days from April 29 through
              May 3. However, I'd also be willing
              to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
              in Word or PDF format in exchange
              for a fair and impartial review.

              Stefan

              Prometheus wrote:
              > Hello All,
              > Thanks Stephan for
              > the review that mentions
              > the League (Eckankar).
              >
              > The person who wrote
              > that review is also an
              > author of the below
              > book on Amazon.com
              >
              > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
              >
              > On page 2 he writes:
              > "Outside of rational awareness,
              > science fails to explain anything
              > mysterious or that which falls
              > outside of that awareness."
              >
              > Actually, I'm not so sure that
              > this is true. We have a rational
              > awareness that there are still
              > stars in the sky when the sun
              > is shining, but lately science
              > has come to know more about
              > mysterious Black Holes and this
              > information falls outside of our
              > own awareness.
              >
              > However, his book does look
              > interesting, although, it sounds
              > like a modern remake regarding
              > the thoughts and perspectives
              > of Eastern religious leaders of
              > the distant past... Ramakrishna
              > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
              > balance was not a key approach
              > to seeking God. One is to have
              > a yearning for God as a jobless
              > man has a yearning for work...
              > yearning is all you need to have
              > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
              >
              > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
              > looks like it gives an interesting
              > look at the mindset of Eckists.
              > I haven't read the book and don't
              > plan on buying it. If it becomes
              > available online for free I'd give
              > it a critique.
              >
              > Prometheus
              >
              > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
              >
              > Prometheus:
              >
              > Got an unsolicited review of
              > The Karma Seeker the other
              > day.
              >
              > Thought you might be interested
              > in what he says about the book.
              > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
              >
              > Stefan
              >
            • harrisonferrel
              EXACTLY!! This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 9 11:58 AM
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                EXACTLY!!

                This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the minds of humans.

                And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery really.

                However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.

                --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                > I don't want to say that
                > I have a closed mind
                > about all of this "spiritual"
                > stuff but it does make
                > one wonder about credibility.
                >
                > We've all been burned by
                > cons and conmen of various
                > sorts selling various concoctions
                > of snake oil.
                >
                > I do know that religions
                > are a farce created by men
                > and that "God" was created
                > in their image. A litmus test
                > for religion is to see if women
                > (half the population) are treated
                > as equals to men. This is a
                > definite sign that indicates
                > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                > the men have their ancient
                > scripture and explanations
                > why it's all for and by men
                > but God would never allow
                > that to be true.
                >
                > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                > is a con there are people
                > everywhere desperate to
                > make a living by using their
                > wits (street smarts) or educational
                > credentials and awards that
                > are seeking out a larger audience
                > of suckers. Some of these
                > people have actually deluded
                > themselves into believing
                > the spiel, but this helps them
                > to be more convincing as well.
                > Klemp is one of these people
                > and he's found his little niche
                > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                >
                > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                >
                > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                >
                > So, it sounds kind of like The
                > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                > mystery science that goes back
                > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                > has to be true. It can't be a con
                > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                > Right?
                >
                > Prometheus
                >
                > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                >
                > The book will be available for free
                > Kindle download on amazon.com
                > for five days from April 29 through
                > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                > for a fair and impartial review.
                >
                > Stefan
                >
                > Prometheus wrote:
                > > Hello All,
                > > Thanks Stephan for
                > > the review that mentions
                > > the League (Eckankar).
                > >
                > > The person who wrote
                > > that review is also an
                > > author of the below
                > > book on Amazon.com
                > >
                > > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                > >
                > > On page 2 he writes:
                > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                > > science fails to explain anything
                > > mysterious or that which falls
                > > outside of that awareness."
                > >
                > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                > > this is true. We have a rational
                > > awareness that there are still
                > > stars in the sky when the sun
                > > is shining, but lately science
                > > has come to know more about
                > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                > > information falls outside of our
                > > own awareness.
                > >
                > > However, his book does look
                > > interesting, although, it sounds
                > > like a modern remake regarding
                > > the thoughts and perspectives
                > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                > > balance was not a key approach
                > > to seeking God. One is to have
                > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                > > man has a yearning for work...
                > > yearning is all you need to have
                > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                > >
                > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                > > looks like it gives an interesting
                > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                > > I haven't read the book and don't
                > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                > > available online for free I'd give
                > > it a critique.
                > >
                > > Prometheus
                > >
                > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                > >
                > > Prometheus:
                > >
                > > Got an unsolicited review of
                > > The Karma Seeker the other
                > > day.
                > >
                > > Thought you might be interested
                > > in what he says about the book.
                > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                > >
                > > Stefan
                > >
                >
              • etznab18
                http://tinyurl.com/ccwha6m
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 13 4:33 PM
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                  http://tinyurl.com/ccwha6m

                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > EXACTLY!!
                  >
                  > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                  >
                  > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery really.
                  >
                  > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                  >
                  > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hello All,
                  > > I don't want to say that
                  > > I have a closed mind
                  > > about all of this "spiritual"
                  > > stuff but it does make
                  > > one wonder about credibility.
                  > >
                  > > We've all been burned by
                  > > cons and conmen of various
                  > > sorts selling various concoctions
                  > > of snake oil.
                  > >
                  > > I do know that religions
                  > > are a farce created by men
                  > > and that "God" was created
                  > > in their image. A litmus test
                  > > for religion is to see if women
                  > > (half the population) are treated
                  > > as equals to men. This is a
                  > > definite sign that indicates
                  > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                  > > the men have their ancient
                  > > scripture and explanations
                  > > why it's all for and by men
                  > > but God would never allow
                  > > that to be true.
                  > >
                  > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                  > > is a con there are people
                  > > everywhere desperate to
                  > > make a living by using their
                  > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                  > > credentials and awards that
                  > > are seeking out a larger audience
                  > > of suckers. Some of these
                  > > people have actually deluded
                  > > themselves into believing
                  > > the spiel, but this helps them
                  > > to be more convincing as well.
                  > > Klemp is one of these people
                  > > and he's found his little niche
                  > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                  > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                  > >
                  > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                  > >
                  > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                  > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                  > >
                  > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                  > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                  > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                  > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                  > > mystery science that goes back
                  > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                  > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                  > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                  > > Right?
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus
                  > >
                  > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                  > >
                  > > The book will be available for free
                  > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                  > > for five days from April 29 through
                  > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                  > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                  > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                  > > for a fair and impartial review.
                  > >
                  > > Stefan
                  > >
                  > > Prometheus wrote:
                  > > > Hello All,
                  > > > Thanks Stephan for
                  > > > the review that mentions
                  > > > the League (Eckankar).
                  > > >
                  > > > The person who wrote
                  > > > that review is also an
                  > > > author of the below
                  > > > book on Amazon.com
                  > > >
                  > > > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                  > > >
                  > > > On page 2 he writes:
                  > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                  > > > science fails to explain anything
                  > > > mysterious or that which falls
                  > > > outside of that awareness."
                  > > >
                  > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                  > > > this is true. We have a rational
                  > > > awareness that there are still
                  > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                  > > > is shining, but lately science
                  > > > has come to know more about
                  > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                  > > > information falls outside of our
                  > > > own awareness.
                  > > >
                  > > > However, his book does look
                  > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                  > > > like a modern remake regarding
                  > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                  > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                  > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                  > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                  > > > balance was not a key approach
                  > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                  > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                  > > > man has a yearning for work...
                  > > > yearning is all you need to have
                  > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                  > > >
                  > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                  > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                  > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                  > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                  > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                  > > > available online for free I'd give
                  > > > it a critique.
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus
                  > > >
                  > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > Prometheus:
                  > > >
                  > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                  > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                  > > > day.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thought you might be interested
                  > > > in what he says about the book.
                  > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                  > > >
                  > > > Stefan
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • etznab18
                  I am curious about the year that Stephan started to write his book. It seems that he did interview a number of Eckists in the past and those interviews remain
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 13 4:45 PM
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                    I am curious about the year that Stephan started to write his book. It seems that he did interview a number of Eckists in the past and those interviews remain linked to "The Spiritual Traveller" site.

                    http://www.spiritualtraveler.com/spiritual_traveler/interviews.asp

                    So I was just curious. If he is not an active Eckankar member, what year did that happen?

                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > http://tinyurl.com/ccwha6m
                    >
                    > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > EXACTLY!!
                    > >
                    > > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                    > >
                    > > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery really.
                    > >
                    > > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                    > >
                    > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello All,
                    > > > I don't want to say that
                    > > > I have a closed mind
                    > > > about all of this "spiritual"
                    > > > stuff but it does make
                    > > > one wonder about credibility.
                    > > >
                    > > > We've all been burned by
                    > > > cons and conmen of various
                    > > > sorts selling various concoctions
                    > > > of snake oil.
                    > > >
                    > > > I do know that religions
                    > > > are a farce created by men
                    > > > and that "God" was created
                    > > > in their image. A litmus test
                    > > > for religion is to see if women
                    > > > (half the population) are treated
                    > > > as equals to men. This is a
                    > > > definite sign that indicates
                    > > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                    > > > the men have their ancient
                    > > > scripture and explanations
                    > > > why it's all for and by men
                    > > > but God would never allow
                    > > > that to be true.
                    > > >
                    > > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                    > > > is a con there are people
                    > > > everywhere desperate to
                    > > > make a living by using their
                    > > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                    > > > credentials and awards that
                    > > > are seeking out a larger audience
                    > > > of suckers. Some of these
                    > > > people have actually deluded
                    > > > themselves into believing
                    > > > the spiel, but this helps them
                    > > > to be more convincing as well.
                    > > > Klemp is one of these people
                    > > > and he's found his little niche
                    > > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                    > > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                    > > >
                    > > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                    > > >
                    > > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                    > > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                    > > >
                    > > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                    > > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                    > > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                    > > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                    > > > mystery science that goes back
                    > > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                    > > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                    > > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                    > > > Right?
                    > > >
                    > > > Prometheus
                    > > >
                    > > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > The book will be available for free
                    > > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                    > > > for five days from April 29 through
                    > > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                    > > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                    > > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                    > > > for a fair and impartial review.
                    > > >
                    > > > Stefan
                    > > >
                    > > > Prometheus wrote:
                    > > > > Hello All,
                    > > > > Thanks Stephan for
                    > > > > the review that mentions
                    > > > > the League (Eckankar).
                    > > > >
                    > > > > The person who wrote
                    > > > > that review is also an
                    > > > > author of the below
                    > > > > book on Amazon.com
                    > > > >
                    > > > > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                    > > > >
                    > > > > On page 2 he writes:
                    > > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                    > > > > science fails to explain anything
                    > > > > mysterious or that which falls
                    > > > > outside of that awareness."
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                    > > > > this is true. We have a rational
                    > > > > awareness that there are still
                    > > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                    > > > > is shining, but lately science
                    > > > > has come to know more about
                    > > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                    > > > > information falls outside of our
                    > > > > own awareness.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > However, his book does look
                    > > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                    > > > > like a modern remake regarding
                    > > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                    > > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                    > > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                    > > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                    > > > > balance was not a key approach
                    > > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                    > > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                    > > > > man has a yearning for work...
                    > > > > yearning is all you need to have
                    > > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                    > > > >
                    > > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                    > > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                    > > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                    > > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                    > > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                    > > > > available online for free I'd give
                    > > > > it a critique.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Prometheus
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Prometheus:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                    > > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                    > > > > day.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thought you might be interested
                    > > > > in what he says about the book.
                    > > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Stefan
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • etznab18
                    The Spiritual Resources link includes Eckankar and Doug Marman s site Spiritual Dialogues Project. So I am still not for certain what this person s current
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 13 4:59 PM
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                      The Spiritual Resources link includes Eckankar and Doug Marman's site Spiritual Dialogues Project. So I am still not for certain what this person's current affiliation with "The League" is now.

                      Granted, the Web pages are from 2012.

                      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I am curious about the year that Stephan started to write his book. It seems that he did interview a number of Eckists in the past and those interviews remain linked to "The Spiritual Traveller" site.
                      >
                      > http://www.spiritualtraveler.com/spiritual_traveler/interviews.asp
                      >
                      > So I was just curious. If he is not an active Eckankar member, what year did that happen?
                      >
                      > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "etznab18" <etznab@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > http://tinyurl.com/ccwha6m
                      > >
                      > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > EXACTLY!!
                      > > >
                      > > > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                      > > >
                      > > > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery really.
                      > > >
                      > > > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Hello All,
                      > > > > I don't want to say that
                      > > > > I have a closed mind
                      > > > > about all of this "spiritual"
                      > > > > stuff but it does make
                      > > > > one wonder about credibility.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > We've all been burned by
                      > > > > cons and conmen of various
                      > > > > sorts selling various concoctions
                      > > > > of snake oil.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I do know that religions
                      > > > > are a farce created by men
                      > > > > and that "God" was created
                      > > > > in their image. A litmus test
                      > > > > for religion is to see if women
                      > > > > (half the population) are treated
                      > > > > as equals to men. This is a
                      > > > > definite sign that indicates
                      > > > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                      > > > > the men have their ancient
                      > > > > scripture and explanations
                      > > > > why it's all for and by men
                      > > > > but God would never allow
                      > > > > that to be true.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                      > > > > is a con there are people
                      > > > > everywhere desperate to
                      > > > > make a living by using their
                      > > > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                      > > > > credentials and awards that
                      > > > > are seeking out a larger audience
                      > > > > of suckers. Some of these
                      > > > > people have actually deluded
                      > > > > themselves into believing
                      > > > > the spiel, but this helps them
                      > > > > to be more convincing as well.
                      > > > > Klemp is one of these people
                      > > > > and he's found his little niche
                      > > > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                      > > > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                      > > > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                      > > > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                      > > > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                      > > > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                      > > > > mystery science that goes back
                      > > > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                      > > > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                      > > > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                      > > > > Right?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Prometheus
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The book will be available for free
                      > > > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                      > > > > for five days from April 29 through
                      > > > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                      > > > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                      > > > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                      > > > > for a fair and impartial review.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Stefan
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Prometheus wrote:
                      > > > > > Hello All,
                      > > > > > Thanks Stephan for
                      > > > > > the review that mentions
                      > > > > > the League (Eckankar).
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > The person who wrote
                      > > > > > that review is also an
                      > > > > > author of the below
                      > > > > > book on Amazon.com
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > On page 2 he writes:
                      > > > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                      > > > > > science fails to explain anything
                      > > > > > mysterious or that which falls
                      > > > > > outside of that awareness."
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                      > > > > > this is true. We have a rational
                      > > > > > awareness that there are still
                      > > > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                      > > > > > is shining, but lately science
                      > > > > > has come to know more about
                      > > > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                      > > > > > information falls outside of our
                      > > > > > own awareness.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > However, his book does look
                      > > > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                      > > > > > like a modern remake regarding
                      > > > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                      > > > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                      > > > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                      > > > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                      > > > > > balance was not a key approach
                      > > > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                      > > > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                      > > > > > man has a yearning for work...
                      > > > > > yearning is all you need to have
                      > > > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                      > > > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                      > > > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                      > > > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                      > > > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                      > > > > > available online for free I'd give
                      > > > > > it a critique.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Prometheus
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Prometheus:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                      > > > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                      > > > > > day.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Thought you might be interested
                      > > > > > in what he says about the book.
                      > > > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Stefan
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Diana Stanley
                      women will never be Masters this goes for maost religions. I quess because women don t have a rod powerful or other wise Diana
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 13 6:36 PM
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                        women will never be Masters this goes for maost religions. I quess because women don't have a rod powerful or other wise
                        Diana
                        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel" <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > EXACTLY!!
                        >
                        > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta. More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                        >
                        > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery really.
                        >
                        > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                        >
                        > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello All,
                        > > I don't want to say that
                        > > I have a closed mind
                        > > about all of this "spiritual"
                        > > stuff but it does make
                        > > one wonder about credibility.
                        > >
                        > > We've all been burned by
                        > > cons and conmen of various
                        > > sorts selling various concoctions
                        > > of snake oil.
                        > >
                        > > I do know that religions
                        > > are a farce created by men
                        > > and that "God" was created
                        > > in their image. A litmus test
                        > > for religion is to see if women
                        > > (half the population) are treated
                        > > as equals to men. This is a
                        > > definite sign that indicates
                        > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                        > > the men have their ancient
                        > > scripture and explanations
                        > > why it's all for and by men
                        > > but God would never allow
                        > > that to be true.
                        > >
                        > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                        > > is a con there are people
                        > > everywhere desperate to
                        > > make a living by using their
                        > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                        > > credentials and awards that
                        > > are seeking out a larger audience
                        > > of suckers. Some of these
                        > > people have actually deluded
                        > > themselves into believing
                        > > the spiel, but this helps them
                        > > to be more convincing as well.
                        > > Klemp is one of these people
                        > > and he's found his little niche
                        > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                        > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                        > >
                        > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                        > >
                        > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                        > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                        > >
                        > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                        > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                        > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                        > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                        > > mystery science that goes back
                        > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                        > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                        > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                        > > Right?
                        > >
                        > > Prometheus
                        > >
                        > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                        > >
                        > > The book will be available for free
                        > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                        > > for five days from April 29 through
                        > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                        > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                        > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                        > > for a fair and impartial review.
                        > >
                        > > Stefan
                        > >
                        > > Prometheus wrote:
                        > > > Hello All,
                        > > > Thanks Stephan for
                        > > > the review that mentions
                        > > > the League (Eckankar).
                        > > >
                        > > > The person who wrote
                        > > > that review is also an
                        > > > author of the below
                        > > > book on Amazon.com
                        > > >
                        > > > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                        > > >
                        > > > On page 2 he writes:
                        > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                        > > > science fails to explain anything
                        > > > mysterious or that which falls
                        > > > outside of that awareness."
                        > > >
                        > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                        > > > this is true. We have a rational
                        > > > awareness that there are still
                        > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                        > > > is shining, but lately science
                        > > > has come to know more about
                        > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                        > > > information falls outside of our
                        > > > own awareness.
                        > > >
                        > > > However, his book does look
                        > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                        > > > like a modern remake regarding
                        > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                        > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                        > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                        > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                        > > > balance was not a key approach
                        > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                        > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                        > > > man has a yearning for work...
                        > > > yearning is all you need to have
                        > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                        > > >
                        > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                        > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                        > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                        > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                        > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                        > > > available online for free I'd give
                        > > > it a critique.
                        > > >
                        > > > Prometheus
                        > > >
                        > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Prometheus:
                        > > >
                        > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                        > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                        > > > day.
                        > > >
                        > > > Thought you might be interested
                        > > > in what he says about the book.
                        > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                        > > >
                        > > > Stefan
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • etznab18
                        In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a serpent designated the
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 13 8:18 PM
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                          In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                          deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                          serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).

                          http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html

                          According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                          kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests at
                          the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                          serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                          example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term kundali
                          ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]

                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology

                          I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic for
                          the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine is a
                          "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men both
                          have these.

                          What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests Shakti,
                          IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without "energy",
                          or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                          "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man even
                          be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?

                          Just saying :)





                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Diana Stanley <dianastanley43@...>
                          To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                          <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Sat, Apr 13, 2013 8:36 pm
                          Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Review of The Karma Seeker

                           
                          women will never be Masters this goes for maost religions. I quess
                          because women don't have a rod powerful or other wise
                          Diana
                          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel"
                          <harrisonferrel@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > EXACTLY!!
                          >
                          > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of
                          Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta.
                          More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                          >
                          > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on
                          the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery
                          really.
                          >
                          > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll
                          be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic
                          that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and
                          NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                          >
                          > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                          "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello All,
                          > > I don't want to say that
                          > > I have a closed mind
                          > > about all of this "spiritual"
                          > > stuff but it does make
                          > > one wonder about credibility.
                          > >
                          > > We've all been burned by
                          > > cons and conmen of various
                          > > sorts selling various concoctions
                          > > of snake oil.
                          > >
                          > > I do know that religions
                          > > are a farce created by men
                          > > and that "God" was created
                          > > in their image. A litmus test
                          > > for religion is to see if women
                          > > (half the population) are treated
                          > > as equals to men. This is a
                          > > definite sign that indicates
                          > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                          > > the men have their ancient
                          > > scripture and explanations
                          > > why it's all for and by men
                          > > but God would never allow
                          > > that to be true.
                          > >
                          > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                          > > is a con there are people
                          > > everywhere desperate to
                          > > make a living by using their
                          > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                          > > credentials and awards that
                          > > are seeking out a larger audience
                          > > of suckers. Some of these
                          > > people have actually deluded
                          > > themselves into believing
                          > > the spiel, but this helps them
                          > > to be more convincing as well.
                          > > Klemp is one of these people
                          > > and he's found his little niche
                          > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                          > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                          > >
                          > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                          > >
                          > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                          > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                          > >
                          > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                          > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                          > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                          > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                          > > mystery science that goes back
                          > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                          > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                          > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                          > > Right?
                          > >
                          > > Prometheus
                          > >
                          > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                          > >
                          > > The book will be available for free
                          > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                          > > for five days from April 29 through
                          > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                          > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                          > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                          > > for a fair and impartial review.
                          > >
                          > > Stefan
                          > >
                          > > Prometheus wrote:
                          > > > Hello All,
                          > > > Thanks Stephan for
                          > > > the review that mentions
                          > > > the League (Eckankar).
                          > > >
                          > > > The person who wrote
                          > > > that review is also an
                          > > > author of the below
                          > > > book on Amazon.com
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                          > > >
                          > > > On page 2 he writes:
                          > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                          > > > science fails to explain anything
                          > > > mysterious or that which falls
                          > > > outside of that awareness."
                          > > >
                          > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                          > > > this is true. We have a rational
                          > > > awareness that there are still
                          > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                          > > > is shining, but lately science
                          > > > has come to know more about
                          > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                          > > > information falls outside of our
                          > > > own awareness.
                          > > >
                          > > > However, his book does look
                          > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                          > > > like a modern remake regarding
                          > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                          > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                          > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                          > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                          > > > balance was not a key approach
                          > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                          > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                          > > > man has a yearning for work...
                          > > > yearning is all you need to have
                          > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                          > > >
                          > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                          > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                          > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                          > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                          > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                          > > > available online for free I'd give
                          > > > it a critique.
                          > > >
                          > > > Prometheus
                          > > >
                          > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Prometheus:
                          > > >
                          > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                          > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                          > > > day.
                          > > >
                          > > > Thought you might be interested
                          > > > in what he says about the book.
                          > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                          > > >
                          > > > Stefan
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • noneckchains
                          I think she is referring to Rod in the patriarchal sense of the male organ, known by some as an erect penis...:) I believe it is true that in religion
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 13 9:23 PM
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                            I think she is referring to "Rod" in the patriarchal sense of the male organ, known by some as an erect penis...:) I believe it is true that in religion generally, males have had the power and have attempted to keep women in their place, although sometimes brainwashed women also preach the same thing and apparently wish to be subservient to males. Earth based religions may be different,in that women have often had an equal or even a major role in society.

                            "Rod of Power" I suppose could have different meanings and kundalini energy and the spine is interesting. I don't recall "Rod of Power" being defined this way in eckankar though.

                            Non ;)

                            --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                            >
                            > In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                            > deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                            > serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).
                            >
                            > http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html
                            >
                            > According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                            > kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests at
                            > the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                            > serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                            > example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term kundali
                            > ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]
                            >
                            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology
                            >
                            > I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic for
                            > the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine is a
                            > "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men both
                            > have these.
                            >
                            > What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests Shakti,
                            > IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without "energy",
                            > or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                            > "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man even
                            > be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?
                            >
                            > Just saying :)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > -----Original Message-----
                            > From: Diana Stanley <dianastanley43@...>
                            > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                            > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                            > Sent: Sat, Apr 13, 2013 8:36 pm
                            > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Review of The Karma Seeker
                            >
                            >  
                            > women will never be Masters this goes for maost religions. I quess
                            > because women don't have a rod powerful or other wise
                            > Diana
                            > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "harrisonferrel"
                            > harrisonferrel@ wrote:
                            > >
                            > > EXACTLY!!
                            > >
                            > > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of
                            > Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the Mahanta.
                            > More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                            > >
                            > > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany Hughes on
                            > the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery
                            > really.
                            > >
                            > > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then you'll
                            > be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something fantastic
                            > that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible and
                            > NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                            > >
                            > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                            > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Hello All,
                            > > > I don't want to say that
                            > > > I have a closed mind
                            > > > about all of this "spiritual"
                            > > > stuff but it does make
                            > > > one wonder about credibility.
                            > > >
                            > > > We've all been burned by
                            > > > cons and conmen of various
                            > > > sorts selling various concoctions
                            > > > of snake oil.
                            > > >
                            > > > I do know that religions
                            > > > are a farce created by men
                            > > > and that "God" was created
                            > > > in their image. A litmus test
                            > > > for religion is to see if women
                            > > > (half the population) are treated
                            > > > as equals to men. This is a
                            > > > definite sign that indicates
                            > > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                            > > > the men have their ancient
                            > > > scripture and explanations
                            > > > why it's all for and by men
                            > > > but God would never allow
                            > > > that to be true.
                            > > >
                            > > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                            > > > is a con there are people
                            > > > everywhere desperate to
                            > > > make a living by using their
                            > > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                            > > > credentials and awards that
                            > > > are seeking out a larger audience
                            > > > of suckers. Some of these
                            > > > people have actually deluded
                            > > > themselves into believing
                            > > > the spiel, but this helps them
                            > > > to be more convincing as well.
                            > > > Klemp is one of these people
                            > > > and he's found his little niche
                            > > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                            > > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                            > > >
                            > > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                            > > >
                            > > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                            > > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                            > > >
                            > > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                            > > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                            > > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                            > > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                            > > > mystery science that goes back
                            > > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                            > > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                            > > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                            > > > Right?
                            > > >
                            > > > Prometheus
                            > > >
                            > > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > The book will be available for free
                            > > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                            > > > for five days from April 29 through
                            > > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                            > > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                            > > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                            > > > for a fair and impartial review.
                            > > >
                            > > > Stefan
                            > > >
                            > > > Prometheus wrote:
                            > > > > Hello All,
                            > > > > Thanks Stephan for
                            > > > > the review that mentions
                            > > > > the League (Eckankar).
                            > > > >
                            > > > > The person who wrote
                            > > > > that review is also an
                            > > > > author of the below
                            > > > > book on Amazon.com
                            > > > >
                            > > > >
                            > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                            > > > >
                            > > > > On page 2 he writes:
                            > > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                            > > > > science fails to explain anything
                            > > > > mysterious or that which falls
                            > > > > outside of that awareness."
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                            > > > > this is true. We have a rational
                            > > > > awareness that there are still
                            > > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                            > > > > is shining, but lately science
                            > > > > has come to know more about
                            > > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                            > > > > information falls outside of our
                            > > > > own awareness.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > However, his book does look
                            > > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                            > > > > like a modern remake regarding
                            > > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                            > > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                            > > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                            > > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                            > > > > balance was not a key approach
                            > > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                            > > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                            > > > > man has a yearning for work...
                            > > > > yearning is all you need to have
                            > > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                            > > > >
                            > > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                            > > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                            > > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                            > > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                            > > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                            > > > > available online for free I'd give
                            > > > > it a critique.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Prometheus
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Prometheus:
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                            > > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                            > > > > day.
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Thought you might be interested
                            > > > > in what he says about the book.
                            > > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                            > > > >
                            > > > > Stefan
                            > > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • etznab18
                            Rod of Power I suppose could have different meanings and kundalini energy and the spine is interesting. I don t recall Rod of Power being defined this way
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 14 5:53 AM
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                              "Rod of Power" I suppose could have different meanings and kundalini
                              energy and the spine is interesting. I don't recall "Rod of Power"
                              being defined this way in eckankar though.

                              I'm not sure there is much description in Eckankar. However, here is
                              what Paul Twitchell's dictionary said:

                              ROD OF POWER The power of the Word of God which is given to that being
                              who has been chosen, by the ECK as it descends and enters into the new
                              Master; the power which makes him the actual manifestation of God at
                              the rites of the initiation of accepting the Rod of ECK Power; the
                              power of the Mahanta consciousness.

                              One of my earlier quotes from the Internet read:

                              In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                              deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                              serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).

                              So Eckankar has "The power of the Word of God ... ."

                              If one looks at the section entitled Christ the Logos it reads as if
                              the "Word" is masculine.

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos#Christ_the_Logos

                              This is not the case in all religions. In Hinduism the power of
                              creation is often associated with a Goddess. Example, Prakriti.

                              Prakrti or Prakriti or Prakruti (from Sanskrit language प्रकृति,
                              prakṛti) means "nature".[1] It is, according to Hinduism, the basic
                              nature of intelligence by which the Universe exists and functions. It
                              is described in Bhagavad Gita as the "primal motive force". It is the
                              essential constituent of the universe and is at the basis of all the
                              activity of the creation.

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prakriti





                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: noneckchains <eckchains@...>
                              To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                              <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Sat, Apr 13, 2013 11:23 pm
                              Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Review of The Karma Seeker

                               
                              I think she is referring to "Rod" in the patriarchal sense of the male
                              organ, known by some as an erect penis...:) I believe it is true that
                              in religion generally, males have had the power and have attempted to
                              keep women in their place, although sometimes brainwashed women also
                              preach the same thing and apparently wish to be subservient to males.
                              Earth based religions may be different,in that women have often had an
                              equal or even a major role in society.

                              "Rod of Power" I suppose could have different meanings and kundalini
                              energy and the spine is interesting. I don't recall "Rod of Power"
                              being defined this way in eckankar though.

                              Non ;)

                              --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, etznab@... wrote:
                              >
                              > In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                              > deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                              > serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).
                              >
                              > http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html
                              >
                              > According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                              > kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests
                              at
                              > the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                              > serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                              > example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term
                              kundali
                              > ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]
                              >
                              > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology
                              >
                              > I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic
                              for
                              > the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine
                              is a
                              > "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men
                              both
                              > have these.
                              >
                              > What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests
                              Shakti,
                              > IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without
                              "energy",
                              > or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                              > "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man
                              even
                              > be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?
                              >
                              > Just saying :)
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----Original Message-----
                              > From: Diana Stanley <dianastanley43@...>
                              > To: EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous
                              > <EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com>
                              > Sent: Sat, Apr 13, 2013 8:36 pm
                              > Subject: [EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous] Re: Review of The Karma
                              Seeker
                              >
                              >  
                              > women will never be Masters this goes for maost religions. I quess
                              > because women don't have a rod powerful or other wise
                              > Diana
                              > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                              "harrisonferrel"
                              > harrisonferrel@ wrote:
                              > >
                              > > EXACTLY!!
                              > >
                              > > This proves my point. Look at the misogynistic writings of
                              > Twitchell; only a man can hold the rod of power and be the
                              Mahanta.
                              > More bullshit from the minds of humans.
                              > >
                              > > And, regarding Atlantis, I'd recommend watching Brittany
                              Hughes on
                              > the BBC. She has a great special on Atlantis. Not a great mystery
                              > really.
                              > >
                              > > However, if you are always looking for the mysterious then
                              you'll
                              > be a deer in the headlights every time someone says something
                              fantastic
                              > that's beyond your knowledge base. eckists are way too gullible
                              and
                              > NEVER check facts when Harold vomits out his litany of lies.
                              > >
                              > > --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com,
                              > "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hello All,
                              > > > I don't want to say that
                              > > > I have a closed mind
                              > > > about all of this "spiritual"
                              > > > stuff but it does make
                              > > > one wonder about credibility.
                              > > >
                              > > > We've all been burned by
                              > > > cons and conmen of various
                              > > > sorts selling various concoctions
                              > > > of snake oil.
                              > > >
                              > > > I do know that religions
                              > > > are a farce created by men
                              > > > and that "God" was created
                              > > > in their image. A litmus test
                              > > > for religion is to see if women
                              > > > (half the population) are treated
                              > > > as equals to men. This is a
                              > > > definite sign that indicates
                              > > > that it is a false religion. Sure,
                              > > > the men have their ancient
                              > > > scripture and explanations
                              > > > why it's all for and by men
                              > > > but God would never allow
                              > > > that to be true.
                              > > >
                              > > > Just as Adam Dream Healer
                              > > > is a con there are people
                              > > > everywhere desperate to
                              > > > make a living by using their
                              > > > wits (street smarts) or educational
                              > > > credentials and awards that
                              > > > are seeking out a larger audience
                              > > > of suckers. Some of these
                              > > > people have actually deluded
                              > > > themselves into believing
                              > > > the spiel, but this helps them
                              > > > to be more convincing as well.
                              > > > Klemp is one of these people
                              > > > and he's found his little niche
                              > > > with Eckankar. Anyway here's
                              > > > what Stefan Meyer is into:
                              > > >
                              > > > http://www.karma-seeker.com/ancient_science_cards.php
                              > > >
                              > > > The Ancient Science of Cards,
                              > > > btw, mine is the King of Diamonds!
                              > > >
                              > > > So, it sounds kind of like The
                              > > > Ancient Science of Soul Travel.
                              > > > It's not Tarot or Astrology and
                              > > > it's not psychic. It's an ancient
                              > > > mystery science that goes back
                              > > > to ancient Atlantis. Therefore, it
                              > > > has to be true. It can't be a con
                              > > > nor pretend or wishful thinking.
                              > > > Right?
                              > > >
                              > > > Prometheus
                              > > >
                              > > > Stefan G. Meyer wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > The book will be available for free
                              > > > Kindle download on amazon.com
                              > > > for five days from April 29 through
                              > > > May 3. However, I'd also be willing
                              > > > to send a copy as an e-mail attachment
                              > > > in Word or PDF format in exchange
                              > > > for a fair and impartial review.
                              > > >
                              > > > Stefan
                              > > >
                              > > > Prometheus wrote:
                              > > > > Hello All,
                              > > > > Thanks Stephan for
                              > > > > the review that mentions
                              > > > > the League (Eckankar).
                              > > > >
                              > > > > The person who wrote
                              > > > > that review is also an
                              > > > > author of the below
                              > > > > book on Amazon.com
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > http://www.amazon.com/On-Being-God-Beyond-Purpose/dp/1439244847
                              > > > >
                              > > > > On page 2 he writes:
                              > > > > "Outside of rational awareness,
                              > > > > science fails to explain anything
                              > > > > mysterious or that which falls
                              > > > > outside of that awareness."
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Actually, I'm not so sure that
                              > > > > this is true. We have a rational
                              > > > > awareness that there are still
                              > > > > stars in the sky when the sun
                              > > > > is shining, but lately science
                              > > > > has come to know more about
                              > > > > mysterious Black Holes and this
                              > > > > information falls outside of our
                              > > > > own awareness.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > However, his book does look
                              > > > > interesting, although, it sounds
                              > > > > like a modern remake regarding
                              > > > > the thoughts and perspectives
                              > > > > of Eastern religious leaders of
                              > > > > the distant past... Ramakrishna
                              > > > > for one. Except, with Ramakrishna
                              > > > > balance was not a key approach
                              > > > > to seeking God. One is to have
                              > > > > a yearning for God as a jobless
                              > > > > man has a yearning for work...
                              > > > > yearning is all you need to have
                              > > > > in order to realize Him (paraphrased).
                              > > > >
                              > > > > In any case "The Karma Seeker"
                              > > > > looks like it gives an interesting
                              > > > > look at the mindset of Eckists.
                              > > > > I haven't read the book and don't
                              > > > > plan on buying it. If it becomes
                              > > > > available online for free I'd give
                              > > > > it a critique.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Prometheus
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Stefan G. Meyer" wrote:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Prometheus:
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Got an unsolicited review of
                              > > > > The Karma Seeker the other
                              > > > > day.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Thought you might be interested
                              > > > > in what he says about the book.
                              > > > > http://amzn.to/ZnZ6jX
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Stefan
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                            • prometheus_973
                              Hello Non and All, I really don t see that women have often had an equal or even a major role in society. Major role yes, equal role no. Women are unequals
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 14 1:53 PM
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                                Hello Non and All,
                                I really don't see that
                                "women have often
                                had an equal or even
                                a major role in society."
                                Major role yes, equal
                                role no. Women are
                                unequals in government,
                                business, and religion.
                                50% of the population
                                are women but they aren't
                                represented, proportionately,
                                in high office. It's a private
                                boy's club. Just look at
                                the Master's Golf Tournament
                                as well as the Augusta
                                Country Club memberships.
                                And, let's not forget that
                                Black men had the right
                                to vote before all women.

                                Prometheus
                                p.s. What does "Earth based
                                religions may be different"
                                mean?
                                All religions are manmade
                                and their God was created in
                                man's own physical and/or
                                mental image.
                                If there were more advanced
                                civilizations out there in the
                                universes, which there probably
                                are, I would doubt very much
                                that they believe in religion.


                                noneckchains wrote:
                                I think she is referring to "Rod"
                                in the patriarchal sense of the
                                male organ, known by some as
                                an erect penis...:)

                                I believe it is true that in religion
                                generally, males have had the
                                power and have attempted to
                                keep women in their place, although
                                sometimes brainwashed women
                                also preach the same thing and
                                apparently wish to be subservient
                                to males.


                                Earth based religions may be
                                different, in that women have
                                often had an equal or even a
                                major role in society.


                                "Rod of Power" I suppose
                                could have different meanings
                                and kundalini energy and
                                the spine is interesting. I don't
                                recall "Rod of Power" being
                                defined this way in eckankar
                                though.

                                Non ;)

                                etznab@... wrote:
                                >
                                > In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                                > deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                                > serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).
                                >
                                http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html
                                >
                                > According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                                > kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests at
                                > the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                                > serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                                > example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term kundali
                                > ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]
                                >
                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology
                                >
                                > I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic for
                                > the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine is a
                                > "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men both
                                > have these.
                                >
                                > What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests Shakti,
                                > IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without "energy",
                                > or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                                > "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man even
                                > be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?
                                >
                                > Just saying :)
                              • noneckchains
                                Prometheus, Your quote of me is taken out of context and I wasn t speaking of the present time, necessarily. I m a little confused by your response, to be
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 15 12:16 AM
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                                  Prometheus,

                                  Your quote of me is taken out of context and I wasn't speaking of the present time, necessarily. I'm a little confused by your response, to be honest. Anyway....

                                  I think I was referring to some Earth Based religion or spirituality, such as Native American, in which there is an emphasis on "Mother Earth" and a relationship and reverence for Nature as sacred, a desire to live in harmony and respect for life. Of course some of this may be stereotypes, and not true in all cases. I recall a documentary about Natives, in which women had the final say in major decisions. At the same time, there were roles to be played by women and men. Another documentary, The Burning Times, shows how there was an attempt to destroy any remnant of a strong role for women in spirituality and culture, as the patriarchal Churches became extremely entrenched in the further subjugation of women. But the film does point to a time in which women, in usually Earth Based spirituality, did seem to have a more equal footing.

                                  I admit that what I have written is kind of sketchy and that I have not provided specific sources. I will just say that I personally, tend to identify with a more Nature form of spirituality, that does not necessarily have an anthropomorphized "God".

                                  Non ;)

                                  P.S. here is one source on ancient Celtic society and women.

                                  http://www.celtlearn.org/pdfs/women.pdf

                                  --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hello Non and All,
                                  > I really don't see that
                                  > "women have often
                                  > had an equal or even
                                  > a major role in society."
                                  > Major role yes, equal
                                  > role no. Women are
                                  > unequals in government,
                                  > business, and religion.
                                  > 50% of the population
                                  > are women but they aren't
                                  > represented, proportionately,
                                  > in high office. It's a private
                                  > boy's club. Just look at
                                  > the Master's Golf Tournament
                                  > as well as the Augusta
                                  > Country Club memberships.
                                  > And, let's not forget that
                                  > Black men had the right
                                  > to vote before all women.
                                  >
                                  > Prometheus
                                  > p.s. What does "Earth based
                                  > religions may be different"
                                  > mean?
                                  > All religions are manmade
                                  > and their God was created in
                                  > man's own physical and/or
                                  > mental image.
                                  > If there were more advanced
                                  > civilizations out there in the
                                  > universes, which there probably
                                  > are, I would doubt very much
                                  > that they believe in religion.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > noneckchains wrote:
                                  > I think she is referring to "Rod"
                                  > in the patriarchal sense of the
                                  > male organ, known by some as
                                  > an erect penis...:)
                                  >
                                  > I believe it is true that in religion
                                  > generally, males have had the
                                  > power and have attempted to
                                  > keep women in their place, although
                                  > sometimes brainwashed women
                                  > also preach the same thing and
                                  > apparently wish to be subservient
                                  > to males.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Earth based religions may be
                                  > different, in that women have
                                  > often had an equal or even a
                                  > major role in society.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > "Rod of Power" I suppose
                                  > could have different meanings
                                  > and kundalini energy and
                                  > the spine is interesting. I don't
                                  > recall "Rod of Power" being
                                  > defined this way in eckankar
                                  > though.
                                  >
                                  > Non ;)
                                  >
                                  > etznab@ wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                                  > > deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                                  > > serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).
                                  > >
                                  > http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html
                                  > >
                                  > > According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                                  > > kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests at
                                  > > the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                                  > > serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                                  > > example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term kundali
                                  > > ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]
                                  > >
                                  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology
                                  > >
                                  > > I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic for
                                  > > the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine is a
                                  > > "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men both
                                  > > have these.
                                  > >
                                  > > What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests Shakti,
                                  > > IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without "energy",
                                  > > or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                                  > > "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man even
                                  > > be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?
                                  > >
                                  > > Just saying :)
                                  >
                                • prometheus_973
                                  Hello Non, Oh, okay. I thought you were referring to all earth based manmade religions. Of course Scientology claims it isn t earth based and yet it seems to
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Apr 15 8:00 PM
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                                    Hello Non,
                                    Oh, okay. I thought
                                    you were referring
                                    to all earth based
                                    manmade religions.
                                    Of course Scientology
                                    claims it isn't earth
                                    based and yet it seems
                                    to be dominated by
                                    males. Eckankar was
                                    supposed to have
                                    originated or based
                                    on Venus and it is
                                    dominated by only
                                    male LEMs.

                                    Yes, it seems that
                                    women did have
                                    a somewhat better
                                    role in Nature based
                                    religions. But these
                                    are rather minor
                                    and uninfluential
                                    and have almost
                                    died out. Wicca
                                    is another minor
                                    nature based religion.

                                    Prometheus

                                    "noneckchains" wrote:
                                    Prometheus,

                                    Your quote of me is taken out of context and I wasn't speaking of the present
                                    time, necessarily. I'm a little confused by your response, to be honest.
                                    Anyway....

                                    I think I was referring to some Earth Based religion or spirituality, such as
                                    Native American, in which there is an emphasis on "Mother Earth" and a
                                    relationship and reverence for Nature as sacred, a desire to live in harmony and
                                    respect for life. Of course some of this may be stereotypes, and not true in all
                                    cases. I recall a documentary about Natives, in which women had the final say in
                                    major decisions. At the same time, there were roles to be played by women and
                                    men. Another documentary, The Burning Times, shows how there was an attempt to
                                    destroy any remnant of a strong role for women in spirituality and culture, as
                                    the patriarchal Churches became extremely entrenched in the further subjugation
                                    of women. But the film does point to a time in which women, in usually Earth
                                    Based spirituality, did seem to have a more equal footing.

                                    I admit that what I have written is kind of sketchy and that I have not provided
                                    specific sources. I will just say that I personally, tend to identify with a
                                    more Nature form of spirituality, that does not necessarily have an
                                    anthropomorphized "God".

                                    Non ;)

                                    P.S. here is one source on ancient Celtic society and women.

                                    http://www.celtlearn.org/pdfs/women.pdf

                                    --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973"
                                    <prometheus_973@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Hello Non and All,
                                    > I really don't see that
                                    > "women have often
                                    > had an equal or even
                                    > a major role in society."
                                    > Major role yes, equal
                                    > role no. Women are
                                    > unequals in government,
                                    > business, and religion.
                                    > 50% of the population
                                    > are women but they aren't
                                    > represented, proportionately,
                                    > in high office. It's a private
                                    > boy's club. Just look at
                                    > the Master's Golf Tournament
                                    > as well as the Augusta
                                    > Country Club memberships.
                                    > And, let's not forget that
                                    > Black men had the right
                                    > to vote before all women.
                                    >
                                    > Prometheus
                                    > p.s. What does "Earth based
                                    > religions may be different"
                                    > mean?
                                    > All religions are manmade
                                    > and their God was created in
                                    > man's own physical and/or
                                    > mental image.
                                    > If there were more advanced
                                    > civilizations out there in the
                                    > universes, which there probably
                                    > are, I would doubt very much
                                    > that they believe in religion.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > noneckchains wrote:
                                    > I think she is referring to "Rod"
                                    > in the patriarchal sense of the
                                    > male organ, known by some as
                                    > an erect penis...:)
                                    >
                                    > I believe it is true that in religion
                                    > generally, males have had the
                                    > power and have attempted to
                                    > keep women in their place, although
                                    > sometimes brainwashed women
                                    > also preach the same thing and
                                    > apparently wish to be subservient
                                    > to males.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Earth based religions may be
                                    > different, in that women have
                                    > often had an equal or even a
                                    > major role in society.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > "Rod of Power" I suppose
                                    > could have different meanings
                                    > and kundalini energy and
                                    > the spine is interesting. I don't
                                    > recall "Rod of Power" being
                                    > defined this way in eckankar
                                    > though.
                                    >
                                    > Non ;)
                                    >
                                    > etznab@ wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > In the Vedas, Kundalini is addressed as a goddess. She is Vak, the
                                    > > deity of speech. And in Egyptian, Messi (messiah) is the name of a
                                    > > serpent designated the "Sacred Word" (Logos).
                                    > >
                                    > http://www.kundaliniresearch.org/moses.html
                                    > >
                                    > > According to well-known teacher and translator Eknath Easwaran,
                                    > > kundalini means "the coiled power," a force which ordinarily rests at
                                    > > the base of the spine, described as being coiled there like a
                                    > > serpent.[11] The concept can be found under different names. For
                                    > > example the 8th century Tantrasadbhava Tantra uses the term kundali
                                    > > ("she who is ring-shaped").[12]
                                    > >
                                    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini#Etymology
                                    > >
                                    > > I guess it depends on what you mean by "rod". If rod is symbolic for
                                    > > the spine, or conduit, then women have "rods" too. And the spine is a
                                    > > "rod" which channels energy to the head and brain. Women and men both
                                    > > have these.
                                    > >
                                    > > What does the phrase "Rod of Power" really mean? Power suggests Shakti,
                                    > > IMO. I would even go far as say there can be no "rod" without "energy",
                                    > > or "power". For example, can a double helix of DNA form without
                                    > > "energy"? Can an atom maintain it's form without energy? Can a man even
                                    > > be born without a womb and matrix to feed it energy?
                                    > >
                                    > > Just saying :)
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