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Re: Why Harold?

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Diana, True. Darwin thought he could control Harold because HK had presented himself falsely. Darwin hadn t known Klemp had hallucinated and became
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 14, 2013
      Hello Diana,
      True. Darwin thought he
      could control Harold because
      HK had presented himself

      Darwin hadn't known Klemp
      had hallucinated and became
      delusional, jumped off a bridge,
      did a strip tease at an airport
      and was jailed and then put in
      a lock-down unit of a Mental

      Klemp only released the details
      of this incident after he became
      the LEM and was made aware of
      the Public Records. That's why
      Klemp "shared" it but then put
      his "Unknown ECK Master" spin
      on it as damage control. But if
      it was all true why didn't HK share
      his "spiritual experience" with
      the LEM/Mahanta during the job
      interview? Klemp tricked Darwin
      by omitting these details.

      Then again, Twitchell got on Kirpal's
      bad side by sharing his "spiritual
      experiences" (delusions/lies) about
      his Master Kirpal (aka Rebazar) in
      The Tiger's Fang.

      Klemp was only released from
      the Mental Institution when
      he had learned (according to him)
      how to "play-the-game" in order
      to "fool" the psychologist in charge.

      To this day, Klemp doesn't
      like psychologists!

      But, Klemp was writing EK
      brochures and had even
      written a book. Darwin wasn't
      much of a writer. He was
      distracted by women, food
      and drink, music, nice clothes
      jewelry, planes and fast cars.
      DG had no free time nor desire
      to write, but he needed books
      and materials to up-date the
      ECK Teachings of Twitchell's
      in order to keep the suckers
      coming in.

      Thus, Klemp was a good choice
      to take over the writing projects

      Darwin wanted to remain the
      Mahanta but have Klemp be
      the LEM and spokesperson.

      I did find it interesting
      that Klemp mentioned
      in his Autobiography that
      DG "hesitated" to meet
      with him in the Dark Room
      where HK worked at the
      ESC (circa June 1980 & '81)
      when Harold had told him
      it was Sound Proofed.
      Get it? No Light or Sound
      (ECK/Spirit) could get into
      the room where the discussion
      of the transition talks were
      taking place. Funny that
      Gross was aware of these
      implications while Klemp
      was oblivious to this until
      he had some 20/20 hindsight
      and omitted some of these
      details in his Autobiography.

      Yes, it's interesting that
      Klemp in his Autobiography
      leaves out some of the details
      about this room (that it was
      a darkroom that was sound
      proofed by the previous tenants
      of the building). However,
      in "Soul Travelers of the Far
      Country," CH. 7, Klemp does
      mention all of these details.


      "Diana Stanley" wrote:
      the reason Darwin choose harold was because he felt he could control him. Harold
      was going to be the Master and darwin would be the Mahanta That way Darwin could
      stay in power and harold could do all the piesky stuff like seminars and
      personal stuff. Darwin wanted to have the freedom to live his life with out
      having his actions being judged. The board at that time wanted Darwin out and
      forced Harold to get him out.

      prometheus wrote:
      > Hello Femsage,
      > Thanks for sharing your
      > thoughts and experiences.
      > [This post has been revised]
      > Yes, Eckankar's pecking
      > order is not a "spiritual"
      > one, but their three leaders,
      > PT, DG, and HK have said
      > it was. Therefore EKists
      > will believe this because
      > they've put their trust in
      > people who have claimed
      > to be "Masters" but have
      > ulterior motives.
      > When selling a religion the
      > conmen, and it's always
      > men, have to make "spiritual"
      > claims.
      > After the founder, Twitchell,
      > established his religion
      > the wannabes, like with
      > Darwin Gross and Harold
      > Klemp, started to line up.
      > It, now, comes down to
      > inheriting the position.
      > Most religions work this
      > way. With Gross he was
      > assisted by the founder's
      > wife whom with he was
      > having an affair.
      > When the founder can't
      > pass the power and title
      > on, then, it becomes a
      > political power play
      > which is always suspect.
      > Klemp's inheritance is
      > even more suspect since
      > it was tied to a corrupted
      > leader passing it on as
      > though he had the "spiritual"
      > ability/authority and
      > validation to do so.
      > However, Klemp, after the
      > fact, brought the fictional
      > EK Master Rebazar into play
      > in order to give himself added
      > validation in order to silence
      > his critics. Klemp learned
      > from seeing what Twitchell
      > had done when he, too,
      > came under criticism and
      > created the story and character
      > of Rebazar Tarzs.
      > PT created Rebazar in order
      > to silence his critics by assigning/
      > initiating himself to a realm
      > of All Knowingness, in order
      > to have validation and spiritual
      > authority over all other "Masters."
      > Now comes Klemp and the
      > trickle-down effect of a
      > spiritual hierarchy in a new
      > way via the RESA structure,
      > a new take on the old versions
      > of typical "physical plane"
      > hierarchies. Klemp became
      > somewhat paranoid via his
      > own nefarious take over and
      > saw the need to keep people
      > under his control and on a
      > short leash.
      > True, Eckankar is run some-
      > what like a corporate hierarchy
      > and it's even run like a political
      > hierarchy. But, in many ways
      > it's more strict and has more
      > incompetence and, therefore,
      > it is run more like a military
      > hierarchy.
      > The physical plane Hierarchy
      > of Eckankar isn't discussed in
      > detail for outsiders, but there
      > are Flow Charts available that
      > show the main org at the ESC
      > and how these organizational
      > branches of the Satsang
      > Societies' positions relate to
      > these.
      > Locally, everyone falls under
      > the RESA, but there are certain
      > positions that report to others
      > under the RESA and some have
      > a counterpart at the ESC. Also,
      > these ESC counterparts can be
      > contacted, at times, and generally
      > have the last word involving
      > a specific area of expertise/
      > responsibility which is even
      > over that of the RESA.
      > And, of course, we also
      > have the initiation ranking/
      > pecking order.
      > Most people don't realize
      > nor understand all of the
      > internal workings but these
      > are important as to how
      > Eckankar functions.
      > Basically, it's a mixed bag
      > of worms since the only
      > ones being paid are those
      > at the Eckankar Spiritual
      > Center (ESC). Volunteers
      > need more encouragement
      > and carrot dangling.
      > BTW- It is interesting to
      > see where the focus is
      > depending upon topic,
      > time slot, room size,
      > and who the facilitators
      > are.
      > Love in Everyday
      > Life versus Soul Travel?
      > That was a long time
      > ago and they were using
      > the more mystical hook
      > back then than they are
      > now, at times. Sometimes
      > they alternate or mix it
      > up. I think that Klemp
      > now uses a "theme"
      > approach which repeats
      > every 12 years. This time
      > it's "A Year of Consecration"
      > and it'll all be more of
      > the same. EK Seminars
      > are more of a social
      > gathering with wide-eyed
      > idol worship.
      > Prometheus
      > femsage wrote:
      > Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects,
      > rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it's essentially the same
      > as any corporate hierarchy as extant today. They have a product to sell that's
      > more imaginary than real. The last seminar I attended was the one they did
      > they first opened that temple outside Minneapolis. They really pushed the
      > and people bought lots of them. I felt that the books were way over-priced. I
      > attended a workshop on "Love In Everyday Life." About a dozen people came to
      > Next door was a workshop on "Soul Travel." More than 500 people attended it.
      > Pretty obvious what most people were interested in doing. Psychic Tourism is
      > alive and doing well. Great way to increase the bottom line. Eckankar is a
      > proven money-maker. That's the only reason and purpose of their organization.
      > remember HK bragging at the time that he had an annual salary of only 25K per
      > year. Yeah, sure and he stays in 5-star hotels, with a retinue of privately
      > hired security guards, and uses a private jet. Heard that BS before.
      > Lisa
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > I was going though some
      > > old papers and found some
      > > notes of former observations
      > > and evaluations of an ESA
      > > Roundtable session.
      > >
      > > It always irritated me when
      > > I saw how some H.I.s were
      > > sucked into the arrogance
      > > of the EK hierarchy.
      > >
      > > Basically, it's seen as the
      > > EK flowing from: Sugmad;
      > > into the Mahanta (Klemp);
      > > then down to the 9th
      > > initiates; 8th initiates;
      > > then to the 7th RESAs;
      > > then to the other 7ths;
      > > then to the ESA 6ths; to
      > > the initiator 6ths; to the
      > > Clerical 6ths; then to the
      > > 5ths who are clerics; to
      > > the other 5ths; then,
      > > on down.
      > >
      > > Of course those holding
      > > titles/positions such as
      > > Satsang President or a
      > > Director title or whatever
      > > would be channeled in
      > > before someone not as
      > > outwardly devout.
      > >
      > > Therefore, everyone in
      > > Eckankar must know their
      > > place within the pecking
      > > order. It's mostly an un-
      > > spoken law, but don't be
      > > mistaken as to the power
      > > of the Hierarchy. It's alive
      > > and well and does influence
      > > people and affects how
      > > they behave, speak, see,
      > > feel, think and evaluate
      > > others.
      > >
      > > Thus, the ECKankar concept
      > > of Soul=Soul (spiritual equality)
      > > is a misnomer and an imaginary
      > > pipe dream. As Below, So Above.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
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