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Re: Eckankar's Pecking Order and What It Means

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello gatsby jay, Welcome and thanks for the post. Read some of the archived MESSAGES look at the LINKS and the FILES to know more. Many EKists are in the dark
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 4, 2013
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      Hello gatsby jay,
      Welcome and thanks
      for the post. Read some
      of the archived MESSAGES
      look at the LINKS and
      the FILES to know more.

      Many EKists are in the
      dark when it comes
      to the actual workings
      of the org. They want
      to and choose to remain
      ignorant and naive and
      imagine their reality in
      the way children pretend.
      They have nothing else
      to believe in except the
      lie that their religion is
      best because it has an
      invisible Inner dream
      reality more real than
      the Outer physical one.

      ECKists must believe the
      initiations are authentic.
      The prestige of the initiations
      and the desire to always
      have more is the glue that
      holds Eckankar together.

      There are no "true initiations."
      Nothing is "revealed" except
      what is desired and imagined
      in one's dreams.

      Some H.I.s do know of
      the process whereby a
      computer generated list
      of names (candidates)
      comes down twice a
      year or so from the Eckankar
      Spiritual Center (ESC)
      to the RESA. The RESA
      will sometimes call certain
      H.I.s where the candidate
      is located and ask them
      questions about the person.
      If there are no objections
      and the RESA thinks the
      EKist is well grounded
      in the EK Teachings, then,
      usually the person would
      be recommended for

      However, for H.I.s to be
      promoted they must finish
      requirements and training
      until they are considered
      for the next step. Positions
      are involved. For all practical
      purposes the 7th initiation
      is the glass ceiling. There
      are those 7th Initiates who
      have been 7ths for 25 years
      and more. Most will never
      be 8ths or 9ths but all are
      deluded into thinking they
      will become "Masters" in
      the hereafter on the Inner


      "gatsby_jay@..." wrote:
      promtheus, i cannot thank you enough for this post. I am a newbie (in the sense
      that I am new to the study of eckankar), and I've had some difficulty getting a
      few questions answered. Your post here comes close to the spirit of my own

      Since eckankar is, as you say, a organization based upon a
      corporate/political/military heirarchy, I have wondered how initiations are
      determined - like who gets them and why.

      Do the eckists inside the organization BELIEVE the initiations are authentic?

      Perhaps the truth of initiation is revealed to the higher ups?

      I am very keen to understand, and i do appreciate whatever light you can shed.


      "prometheus_973" wrote:
      > Hello Femsage,
      > Thanks for sharing your
      > thoughts and experiences.
      > [This post has been revised]
      > Yes, Eckankar's pecking
      > order is not a "spiritual"
      > one, but their three leaders,
      > PT, DG, and HK have said
      > it was. Therefore EKists
      > will believe this because
      > they've put their trust in
      > people who have claimed
      > to be "Masters" but have
      > ulterior motives.
      > When selling a religion the
      > conmen, and it's always
      > men, have to make "spiritual"
      > claims.
      > After the founder, Twitchell,
      > established his religion
      > the wannabes, like with
      > Darwin Gross and Harold
      > Klemp, started to line up.
      > It, now, comes down to
      > inheriting the position.
      > Most religions work this
      > way. With Gross he was
      > assisted by the founder's
      > wife whom with he was
      > having an affair.
      > When the founder can't
      > pass the power and title
      > on, then, it becomes a
      > political power play
      > which is always suspect.
      > Klemp's inheritance is
      > even more suspect since
      > it was tied to a corrupted
      > leader passing it on as
      > though he had the "spiritual"
      > ability/authority and
      > validation to do so.
      > However, Klemp, after the
      > fact, brought the fictional
      > EK Master Rebazar into play
      > in order to give himself added
      > validation in order to silence
      > his critics. Klemp learned
      > from seeing what Twitchell
      > had done when he, too,
      > came under criticism and
      > created the story and character
      > of Rebazar Tarzs.
      > PT created Rebazar in order
      > to silence his critics by assigning/
      > initiating himself to a realm
      > of All Knowingness, in order
      > to have validation and spiritual
      > authority over all other "Masters."
      > Now comes Klemp and the
      > trickle-down effect of a
      > spiritual hierarchy in a new
      > way via the RESA structure,
      > a new take on the old versions
      > of typical "physical plane"
      > hierarchies. Klemp became
      > somewhat paranoid via his
      > own nefarious take over and
      > saw the need to keep people
      > under his control and on a
      > short leash.
      > True, Eckankar is run some-
      > what like a corporate hierarchy
      > and it's even run like a political
      > hierarchy. But, in many ways
      > it's more strict and has more
      > incompetence and, therefore,
      > it is run more like a military
      > hierarchy.
      > The physical plane Hierarchy
      > of Eckankar isn't discussed in
      > detail for outsiders, but there
      > are Flow Charts available that
      > show the main org at the ESC
      > and how these organizational
      > branches of the Satsang
      > Societies' positions relate to
      > these.
      > Locally, everyone falls under
      > the RESA, but there are certain
      > positions that report to others
      > under the RESA and some have
      > a counterpart at the ESC. Also,
      > these ESC counterparts can be
      > contacted, at times, and generally
      > have the last word involving
      > a specific area of expertise/
      > responsibility which is even
      > over that of the RESA.
      > And, of course, we also
      > have the initiation ranking/
      > pecking order.
      > Most people don't realize
      > nor understand all of the
      > internal workings but these
      > are important as to how
      > Eckankar functions.
      > Basically, it's a mixed bag
      > of worms since the only
      > ones being paid are those
      > at the Eckankar Spiritual
      > Center (ESC). Volunteers
      > need more encouragement
      > and carrot dangling.
      > BTW- It is interesting to
      > see where the focus is
      > depending upon topic,
      > time slot, room size,
      > and who the facilitators
      > are.
      > Love in Everyday
      > Life versus Soul Travel?
      > That was a long time
      > ago and they were using
      > the more mystical hook
      > back then than they are
      > now, at times. Sometimes
      > they alternate or mix it
      > up. I think that Klemp
      > now uses a "theme"
      > approach which repeats
      > every 12 years. This time
      > it's "A Year of Consecration"
      > and it'll all be more of
      > the same. EK Seminars
      > are more of a social
      > gathering with wide-eyed
      > idol worship.
      > Prometheus
      > femsage wrote:
      > Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects,
      > rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it's essentially the same
      > as any corporate hierarchy as extant today. They have a product to sell that's
      > more imaginary than real. The last seminar I attended was the one they did
      > they first opened that temple outside Minneapolis. They really pushed the
      > and people bought lots of them. I felt that the books were way over-priced. I
      > attended a workshop on "Love In Everyday Life." About a dozen people came to
      > Next door was a workshop on "Soul Travel." More than 500 people attended it.
      > Pretty obvious what most people were interested in doing. Psychic Tourism is
      > alive and doing well. Great way to increase the bottom line. Eckankar is a
      > proven money-maker. That's the only reason and purpose of their organization.
      > remember HK bragging at the time that he had an annual salary of only 25K per
      > year. Yeah, sure and he stays in 5-star hotels, with a retinue of privately
      > hired security guards, and uses a private jet. Heard that BS before.
      > Lisa
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > I was going though some
      > > old papers and found some
      > > notes of former observations
      > > and evaluations of an ESA
      > > Roundtable session.
      > >
      > > It always irritated me when
      > > I saw how some H.I.s were
      > > sucked into the arrogance
      > > of the EK hierarchy.
      > >
      > > Basically, it's seen as the
      > > EK flowing from: Sugmad;
      > > into the Mahanta (Klemp);
      > > then down to the 9th
      > > initiates; 8th initiates;
      > > then to the 7th RESAs;
      > > then to the other 7ths;
      > > then to the ESA 6ths; to
      > > the initiator 6ths; to the
      > > Clerical 6ths; then to the
      > > 5ths who are clerics; to
      > > the other 5ths; then,
      > > on down.
      > >
      > > Of course those holding
      > > titles/positions such as
      > > Satsang President or a
      > > Director title or whatever
      > > would be channeled in
      > > before someone not as
      > > outwardly devout.
      > >
      > > Therefore, everyone in
      > > Eckankar must know their
      > > place within the pecking
      > > order. It's mostly an un-
      > > spoken law, but don't be
      > > mistaken as to the power
      > > of the Hierarchy. It's alive
      > > and well and does influence
      > > people and affects how
      > > they behave, speak, see,
      > > feel, think and evaluate
      > > others.
      > >
      > > Thus, the ECKankar concept
      > > of Soul=Soul (spiritual equality)
      > > is a misnomer and an imaginary
      > > pipe dream. As Below, So Above.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
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