Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Eckankar's Pecking Order and What It Means

Expand Messages
  • gatsby_jay@ymail.com
    promtheus, i cannot thank you enough for this post. I am a newbie (in the sense that I am new to the study of eckankar), and I ve had some difficulty getting
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 2, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      promtheus, i cannot thank you enough for this post. I am a newbie (in the sense that I am new to the study of eckankar), and I've had some difficulty getting a few questions answered. Your post here comes close to the spirit of my own inquiry.

      Since eckankar is, as you say, a organization based upon a corporate/political/military heirarchy, I have wondered how initiations are determined - like who gets them and why.

      Do the eckists inside the organization BELIEVE the initiations are authentic? Perhaps the truth of initiation is revealed to the higher ups?

      I am very keen to understand, and i do appreciate whatever light you can shed.

      Jay

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" wrote:
      >
      > Hello Femsage,
      > Thanks for sharing your
      > thoughts and experiences.
      > [This post has been revised]
      >
      > Yes, Eckankar's pecking
      > order is not a "spiritual"
      > one, but their three leaders,
      > PT, DG, and HK have said
      > it was. Therefore EKists
      > will believe this because
      > they've put their trust in
      > people who have claimed
      > to be "Masters" but have
      > ulterior motives.
      >
      > When selling a religion the
      > conmen, and it's always
      > men, have to make "spiritual"
      > claims.
      >
      > After the founder, Twitchell,
      > established his religion
      > the wannabes, like with
      > Darwin Gross and Harold
      > Klemp, started to line up.
      > It, now, comes down to
      > inheriting the position.
      > Most religions work this
      > way. With Gross he was
      > assisted by the founder's
      > wife whom with he was
      > having an affair.
      >
      > When the founder can't
      > pass the power and title
      > on, then, it becomes a
      > political power play
      > which is always suspect.
      > Klemp's inheritance is
      > even more suspect since
      > it was tied to a corrupted
      > leader passing it on as
      > though he had the "spiritual"
      > ability/authority and
      > validation to do so.
      >
      > However, Klemp, after the
      > fact, brought the fictional
      > EK Master Rebazar into play
      > in order to give himself added
      > validation in order to silence
      > his critics. Klemp learned
      > from seeing what Twitchell
      > had done when he, too,
      > came under criticism and
      > created the story and character
      > of Rebazar Tarzs.
      >
      > PT created Rebazar in order
      > to silence his critics by assigning/
      > initiating himself to a realm
      > of All Knowingness, in order
      > to have validation and spiritual
      > authority over all other "Masters."
      >
      > Now comes Klemp and the
      > trickle-down effect of a
      > spiritual hierarchy in a new
      > way via the RESA structure,
      > a new take on the old versions
      > of typical "physical plane"
      > hierarchies. Klemp became
      > somewhat paranoid via his
      > own nefarious take over and
      > saw the need to keep people
      > under his control and on a
      > short leash.
      >
      > True, Eckankar is run some-
      > what like a corporate hierarchy
      > and it's even run like a political
      > hierarchy. But, in many ways
      > it's more strict and has more
      > incompetence and, therefore,
      > it is run more like a military
      > hierarchy.
      >
      > The physical plane Hierarchy
      > of Eckankar isn't discussed in
      > detail for outsiders, but there
      > are Flow Charts available that
      > show the main org at the ESC
      > and how these organizational
      > branches of the Satsang
      > Societies' positions relate to
      > these.
      >
      > Locally, everyone falls under
      > the RESA, but there are certain
      > positions that report to others
      > under the RESA and some have
      > a counterpart at the ESC. Also,
      > these ESC counterparts can be
      > contacted, at times, and generally
      > have the last word involving
      > a specific area of expertise/
      > responsibility which is even
      > over that of the RESA.
      >
      > And, of course, we also
      > have the initiation ranking/
      > pecking order.
      >
      > Most people don't realize
      > nor understand all of the
      > internal workings but these
      > are important as to how
      > Eckankar functions.
      >
      > Basically, it's a mixed bag
      > of worms since the only
      > ones being paid are those
      > at the Eckankar Spiritual
      > Center (ESC). Volunteers
      > need more encouragement
      > and carrot dangling.
      >
      > BTW- It is interesting to
      > see where the focus is
      > depending upon topic,
      > time slot, room size,
      > and who the facilitators
      > are.
      >
      > Love in Everyday
      > Life versus Soul Travel?
      >
      > That was a long time
      > ago and they were using
      > the more mystical hook
      > back then than they are
      > now, at times. Sometimes
      > they alternate or mix it
      > up. I think that Klemp
      > now uses a "theme"
      > approach which repeats
      > every 12 years. This time
      > it's "A Year of Consecration"
      > and it'll all be more of
      > the same. EK Seminars
      > are more of a social
      > gathering with wide-eyed
      > idol worship.
      >
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
      > femsage wrote:
      > Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects,
      > rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it's essentially the same
      > as any corporate hierarchy as extant today. They have a product to sell that's
      > more imaginary than real. The last seminar I attended was the one they did when
      > they first opened that temple outside Minneapolis. They really pushed the books,
      > and people bought lots of them. I felt that the books were way over-priced. I
      > attended a workshop on "Love In Everyday Life." About a dozen people came to it.
      > Next door was a workshop on "Soul Travel." More than 500 people attended it.
      > Pretty obvious what most people were interested in doing. Psychic Tourism is
      > alive and doing well. Great way to increase the bottom line. Eckankar is a
      > proven money-maker. That's the only reason and purpose of their organization. I
      > remember HK bragging at the time that he had an annual salary of only 25K per
      > year. Yeah, sure and he stays in 5-star hotels, with a retinue of privately
      > hired security guards, and uses a private jet. Heard that BS before.
      >
      > Lisa
      >
      > prometheus wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello All,
      > > I was going though some
      > > old papers and found some
      > > notes of former observations
      > > and evaluations of an ESA
      > > Roundtable session.
      > >
      > > It always irritated me when
      > > I saw how some H.I.s were
      > > sucked into the arrogance
      > > of the EK hierarchy.
      > >
      > > Basically, it's seen as the
      > > EK flowing from: Sugmad;
      > > into the Mahanta (Klemp);
      > > then down to the 9th
      > > initiates; 8th initiates;
      > > then to the 7th RESAs;
      > > then to the other 7ths;
      > > then to the ESA 6ths; to
      > > the initiator 6ths; to the
      > > Clerical 6ths; then to the
      > > 5ths who are clerics; to
      > > the other 5ths; then,
      > > on down.
      > >
      > > Of course those holding
      > > titles/positions such as
      > > Satsang President or a
      > > Director title or whatever
      > > would be channeled in
      > > before someone not as
      > > outwardly devout.
      > >
      > > Therefore, everyone in
      > > Eckankar must know their
      > > place within the pecking
      > > order. It's mostly an un-
      > > spoken law, but don't be
      > > mistaken as to the power
      > > of the Hierarchy. It's alive
      > > and well and does influence
      > > people and affects how
      > > they behave, speak, see,
      > > feel, think and evaluate
      > > others.
      > >
      > > Thus, the ECKankar concept
      > > of Soul=Soul (spiritual equality)
      > > is a misnomer and an imaginary
      > > pipe dream. As Below, So Above.
      > >
      > > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello gatsby jay, Welcome and thanks for the post. Read some of the archived MESSAGES look at the LINKS and the FILES to know more. Many EKists are in the dark
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 4, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Hello gatsby jay,
        Welcome and thanks
        for the post. Read some
        of the archived MESSAGES
        look at the LINKS and
        the FILES to know more.

        Many EKists are in the
        dark when it comes
        to the actual workings
        of the org. They want
        to and choose to remain
        ignorant and naive and
        imagine their reality in
        the way children pretend.
        They have nothing else
        to believe in except the
        lie that their religion is
        best because it has an
        invisible Inner dream
        reality more real than
        the Outer physical one.

        ECKists must believe the
        initiations are authentic.
        The prestige of the initiations
        and the desire to always
        have more is the glue that
        holds Eckankar together.

        There are no "true initiations."
        Nothing is "revealed" except
        what is desired and imagined
        in one's dreams.

        Some H.I.s do know of
        the process whereby a
        computer generated list
        of names (candidates)
        comes down twice a
        year or so from the Eckankar
        Spiritual Center (ESC)
        to the RESA. The RESA
        will sometimes call certain
        H.I.s where the candidate
        is located and ask them
        questions about the person.
        If there are no objections
        and the RESA thinks the
        EKist is well grounded
        in the EK Teachings, then,
        usually the person would
        be recommended for
        promotion.

        However, for H.I.s to be
        promoted they must finish
        requirements and training
        until they are considered
        for the next step. Positions
        are involved. For all practical
        purposes the 7th initiation
        is the glass ceiling. There
        are those 7th Initiates who
        have been 7ths for 25 years
        and more. Most will never
        be 8ths or 9ths but all are
        deluded into thinking they
        will become "Masters" in
        the hereafter on the Inner
        planes.

        Prometheus





        "gatsby_jay@..." wrote:
        promtheus, i cannot thank you enough for this post. I am a newbie (in the sense
        that I am new to the study of eckankar), and I've had some difficulty getting a
        few questions answered. Your post here comes close to the spirit of my own
        inquiry.

        Since eckankar is, as you say, a organization based upon a
        corporate/political/military heirarchy, I have wondered how initiations are
        determined - like who gets them and why.

        Do the eckists inside the organization BELIEVE the initiations are authentic?

        Perhaps the truth of initiation is revealed to the higher ups?

        I am very keen to understand, and i do appreciate whatever light you can shed.

        Jay

        "prometheus_973" wrote:
        >
        > Hello Femsage,
        > Thanks for sharing your
        > thoughts and experiences.
        > [This post has been revised]
        >
        > Yes, Eckankar's pecking
        > order is not a "spiritual"
        > one, but their three leaders,
        > PT, DG, and HK have said
        > it was. Therefore EKists
        > will believe this because
        > they've put their trust in
        > people who have claimed
        > to be "Masters" but have
        > ulterior motives.
        >
        > When selling a religion the
        > conmen, and it's always
        > men, have to make "spiritual"
        > claims.
        >
        > After the founder, Twitchell,
        > established his religion
        > the wannabes, like with
        > Darwin Gross and Harold
        > Klemp, started to line up.
        > It, now, comes down to
        > inheriting the position.
        > Most religions work this
        > way. With Gross he was
        > assisted by the founder's
        > wife whom with he was
        > having an affair.
        >
        > When the founder can't
        > pass the power and title
        > on, then, it becomes a
        > political power play
        > which is always suspect.
        > Klemp's inheritance is
        > even more suspect since
        > it was tied to a corrupted
        > leader passing it on as
        > though he had the "spiritual"
        > ability/authority and
        > validation to do so.
        >
        > However, Klemp, after the
        > fact, brought the fictional
        > EK Master Rebazar into play
        > in order to give himself added
        > validation in order to silence
        > his critics. Klemp learned
        > from seeing what Twitchell
        > had done when he, too,
        > came under criticism and
        > created the story and character
        > of Rebazar Tarzs.
        >
        > PT created Rebazar in order
        > to silence his critics by assigning/
        > initiating himself to a realm
        > of All Knowingness, in order
        > to have validation and spiritual
        > authority over all other "Masters."
        >
        > Now comes Klemp and the
        > trickle-down effect of a
        > spiritual hierarchy in a new
        > way via the RESA structure,
        > a new take on the old versions
        > of typical "physical plane"
        > hierarchies. Klemp became
        > somewhat paranoid via his
        > own nefarious take over and
        > saw the need to keep people
        > under his control and on a
        > short leash.
        >
        > True, Eckankar is run some-
        > what like a corporate hierarchy
        > and it's even run like a political
        > hierarchy. But, in many ways
        > it's more strict and has more
        > incompetence and, therefore,
        > it is run more like a military
        > hierarchy.
        >
        > The physical plane Hierarchy
        > of Eckankar isn't discussed in
        > detail for outsiders, but there
        > are Flow Charts available that
        > show the main org at the ESC
        > and how these organizational
        > branches of the Satsang
        > Societies' positions relate to
        > these.
        >
        > Locally, everyone falls under
        > the RESA, but there are certain
        > positions that report to others
        > under the RESA and some have
        > a counterpart at the ESC. Also,
        > these ESC counterparts can be
        > contacted, at times, and generally
        > have the last word involving
        > a specific area of expertise/
        > responsibility which is even
        > over that of the RESA.
        >
        > And, of course, we also
        > have the initiation ranking/
        > pecking order.
        >
        > Most people don't realize
        > nor understand all of the
        > internal workings but these
        > are important as to how
        > Eckankar functions.
        >
        > Basically, it's a mixed bag
        > of worms since the only
        > ones being paid are those
        > at the Eckankar Spiritual
        > Center (ESC). Volunteers
        > need more encouragement
        > and carrot dangling.
        >
        > BTW- It is interesting to
        > see where the focus is
        > depending upon topic,
        > time slot, room size,
        > and who the facilitators
        > are.
        >
        > Love in Everyday
        > Life versus Soul Travel?
        >
        > That was a long time
        > ago and they were using
        > the more mystical hook
        > back then than they are
        > now, at times. Sometimes
        > they alternate or mix it
        > up. I think that Klemp
        > now uses a "theme"
        > approach which repeats
        > every 12 years. This time
        > it's "A Year of Consecration"
        > and it'll all be more of
        > the same. EK Seminars
        > are more of a social
        > gathering with wide-eyed
        > idol worship.
        >
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > femsage wrote:
        > Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects,
        > rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it's essentially the same
        > as any corporate hierarchy as extant today. They have a product to sell that's
        > more imaginary than real. The last seminar I attended was the one they did
        when
        > they first opened that temple outside Minneapolis. They really pushed the
        books,
        > and people bought lots of them. I felt that the books were way over-priced. I
        > attended a workshop on "Love In Everyday Life." About a dozen people came to
        it.
        > Next door was a workshop on "Soul Travel." More than 500 people attended it.
        > Pretty obvious what most people were interested in doing. Psychic Tourism is
        > alive and doing well. Great way to increase the bottom line. Eckankar is a
        > proven money-maker. That's the only reason and purpose of their organization.
        I
        > remember HK bragging at the time that he had an annual salary of only 25K per
        > year. Yeah, sure and he stays in 5-star hotels, with a retinue of privately
        > hired security guards, and uses a private jet. Heard that BS before.
        >
        > Lisa
        >
        > prometheus wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello All,
        > > I was going though some
        > > old papers and found some
        > > notes of former observations
        > > and evaluations of an ESA
        > > Roundtable session.
        > >
        > > It always irritated me when
        > > I saw how some H.I.s were
        > > sucked into the arrogance
        > > of the EK hierarchy.
        > >
        > > Basically, it's seen as the
        > > EK flowing from: Sugmad;
        > > into the Mahanta (Klemp);
        > > then down to the 9th
        > > initiates; 8th initiates;
        > > then to the 7th RESAs;
        > > then to the other 7ths;
        > > then to the ESA 6ths; to
        > > the initiator 6ths; to the
        > > Clerical 6ths; then to the
        > > 5ths who are clerics; to
        > > the other 5ths; then,
        > > on down.
        > >
        > > Of course those holding
        > > titles/positions such as
        > > Satsang President or a
        > > Director title or whatever
        > > would be channeled in
        > > before someone not as
        > > outwardly devout.
        > >
        > > Therefore, everyone in
        > > Eckankar must know their
        > > place within the pecking
        > > order. It's mostly an un-
        > > spoken law, but don't be
        > > mistaken as to the power
        > > of the Hierarchy. It's alive
        > > and well and does influence
        > > people and affects how
        > > they behave, speak, see,
        > > feel, think and evaluate
        > > others.
        > >
        > > Thus, the ECKankar concept
        > > of Soul=Soul (spiritual equality)
        > > is a misnomer and an imaginary
        > > pipe dream. As Below, So Above.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.