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Re: Eckankar's Pecking Order and What It Means

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  • prometheus_973
    Hello Femsage, Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. [This post has been revised] Yes, Eckankar s pecking order is not a spiritual one, but their
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 25, 2013
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      Hello Femsage,
      Thanks for sharing your
      thoughts and experiences.
      [This post has been revised]

      Yes, Eckankar's pecking
      order is not a "spiritual"
      one, but their three leaders,
      PT, DG, and HK have said
      it was. Therefore EKists
      will believe this because
      they've put their trust in
      people who have claimed
      to be "Masters" but have
      ulterior motives.

      When selling a religion the
      conmen, and it's always
      men, have to make "spiritual"
      claims.

      After the founder, Twitchell,
      established his religion
      the wannabes, like with
      Darwin Gross and Harold
      Klemp, started to line up.
      It, now, comes down to
      inheriting the position.
      Most religions work this
      way. With Gross he was
      assisted by the founder's
      wife whom with he was
      having an affair.

      When the founder can't
      pass the power and title
      on, then, it becomes a
      political power play
      which is always suspect.
      Klemp's inheritance is
      even more suspect since
      it was tied to a corrupted
      leader passing it on as
      though he had the "spiritual"
      ability/authority and
      validation to do so.

      However, Klemp, after the
      fact, brought the fictional
      EK Master Rebazar into play
      in order to give himself added
      validation in order to silence
      his critics. Klemp learned
      from seeing what Twitchell
      had done when he, too,
      came under criticism and
      created the story and character
      of Rebazar Tarzs.

      PT created Rebazar in order
      to silence his critics by assigning/
      initiating himself to a realm
      of All Knowingness, in order
      to have validation and spiritual
      authority over all other "Masters."

      Now comes Klemp and the
      trickle-down effect of a
      spiritual hierarchy in a new
      way via the RESA structure,
      a new take on the old versions
      of typical "physical plane"
      hierarchies. Klemp became
      somewhat paranoid via his
      own nefarious take over and
      saw the need to keep people
      under his control and on a
      short leash.

      True, Eckankar is run some-
      what like a corporate hierarchy
      and it's even run like a political
      hierarchy. But, in many ways
      it's more strict and has more
      incompetence and, therefore,
      it is run more like a military
      hierarchy.

      The physical plane Hierarchy
      of Eckankar isn't discussed in
      detail for outsiders, but there
      are Flow Charts available that
      show the main org at the ESC
      and how these organizational
      branches of the Satsang
      Societies' positions relate to
      these.

      Locally, everyone falls under
      the RESA, but there are certain
      positions that report to others
      under the RESA and some have
      a counterpart at the ESC. Also,
      these ESC counterparts can be
      contacted, at times, and generally
      have the last word involving
      a specific area of expertise/
      responsibility which is even
      over that of the RESA.

      And, of course, we also
      have the initiation ranking/
      pecking order.

      Most people don't realize
      nor understand all of the
      internal workings but these
      are important as to how
      Eckankar functions.

      Basically, it's a mixed bag
      of worms since the only
      ones being paid are those
      at the Eckankar Spiritual
      Center (ESC). Volunteers
      need more encouragement
      and carrot dangling.

      BTW- It is interesting to
      see where the focus is
      depending upon topic,
      time slot, room size,
      and who the facilitators
      are.

      Love in Everyday
      Life versus Soul Travel?

      That was a long time
      ago and they were using
      the more mystical hook
      back then than they are
      now, at times. Sometimes
      they alternate or mix it
      up. I think that Klemp
      now uses a "theme"
      approach which repeats
      every 12 years. This time
      it's "A Year of Consecration"
      and it'll all be more of
      the same. EK Seminars
      are more of a social
      gathering with wide-eyed
      idol worship.


      Prometheus

      femsage wrote:
      Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects,
      rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it's essentially the same
      as any corporate hierarchy as extant today. They have a product to sell that's
      more imaginary than real. The last seminar I attended was the one they did when
      they first opened that temple outside Minneapolis. They really pushed the books,
      and people bought lots of them. I felt that the books were way over-priced. I
      attended a workshop on "Love In Everyday Life." About a dozen people came to it.
      Next door was a workshop on "Soul Travel." More than 500 people attended it.
      Pretty obvious what most people were interested in doing. Psychic Tourism is
      alive and doing well. Great way to increase the bottom line. Eckankar is a
      proven money-maker. That's the only reason and purpose of their organization. I
      remember HK bragging at the time that he had an annual salary of only 25K per
      year. Yeah, sure and he stays in 5-star hotels, with a retinue of privately
      hired security guards, and uses a private jet. Heard that BS before.

      Lisa

      prometheus wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > I was going though some
      > old papers and found some
      > notes of former observations
      > and evaluations of an ESA
      > Roundtable session.
      >
      > It always irritated me when
      > I saw how some H.I.s were
      > sucked into the arrogance
      > of the EK hierarchy.
      >
      > Basically, it's seen as the
      > EK flowing from: Sugmad;
      > into the Mahanta (Klemp);
      > then down to the 9th
      > initiates; 8th initiates;
      > then to the 7th RESAs;
      > then to the other 7ths;
      > then to the ESA 6ths; to
      > the initiator 6ths; to the
      > Clerical 6ths; then to the
      > 5ths who are clerics; to
      > the other 5ths; then,
      > on down.
      >
      > Of course those holding
      > titles/positions such as
      > Satsang President or a
      > Director title or whatever
      > would be channeled in
      > before someone not as
      > outwardly devout.
      >
      > Therefore, everyone in
      > Eckankar must know their
      > place within the pecking
      > order. It's mostly an un-
      > spoken law, but don't be
      > mistaken as to the power
      > of the Hierarchy. It's alive
      > and well and does influence
      > people and affects how
      > they behave, speak, see,
      > feel, think and evaluate
      > others.
      >
      > Thus, the ECKankar concept
      > of Soul=Soul (spiritual equality)
      > is a misnomer and an imaginary
      > pipe dream. As Below, So Above.
      >
      > Prometheus
    • gatsby_jay@ymail.com
      promtheus, i cannot thank you enough for this post. I am a newbie (in the sense that I am new to the study of eckankar), and I ve had some difficulty getting
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 2, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        promtheus, i cannot thank you enough for this post. I am a newbie (in the sense that I am new to the study of eckankar), and I've had some difficulty getting a few questions answered. Your post here comes close to the spirit of my own inquiry.

        Since eckankar is, as you say, a organization based upon a corporate/political/military heirarchy, I have wondered how initiations are determined - like who gets them and why.

        Do the eckists inside the organization BELIEVE the initiations are authentic? Perhaps the truth of initiation is revealed to the higher ups?

        I am very keen to understand, and i do appreciate whatever light you can shed.

        Jay

        --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" wrote:
        >
        > Hello Femsage,
        > Thanks for sharing your
        > thoughts and experiences.
        > [This post has been revised]
        >
        > Yes, Eckankar's pecking
        > order is not a "spiritual"
        > one, but their three leaders,
        > PT, DG, and HK have said
        > it was. Therefore EKists
        > will believe this because
        > they've put their trust in
        > people who have claimed
        > to be "Masters" but have
        > ulterior motives.
        >
        > When selling a religion the
        > conmen, and it's always
        > men, have to make "spiritual"
        > claims.
        >
        > After the founder, Twitchell,
        > established his religion
        > the wannabes, like with
        > Darwin Gross and Harold
        > Klemp, started to line up.
        > It, now, comes down to
        > inheriting the position.
        > Most religions work this
        > way. With Gross he was
        > assisted by the founder's
        > wife whom with he was
        > having an affair.
        >
        > When the founder can't
        > pass the power and title
        > on, then, it becomes a
        > political power play
        > which is always suspect.
        > Klemp's inheritance is
        > even more suspect since
        > it was tied to a corrupted
        > leader passing it on as
        > though he had the "spiritual"
        > ability/authority and
        > validation to do so.
        >
        > However, Klemp, after the
        > fact, brought the fictional
        > EK Master Rebazar into play
        > in order to give himself added
        > validation in order to silence
        > his critics. Klemp learned
        > from seeing what Twitchell
        > had done when he, too,
        > came under criticism and
        > created the story and character
        > of Rebazar Tarzs.
        >
        > PT created Rebazar in order
        > to silence his critics by assigning/
        > initiating himself to a realm
        > of All Knowingness, in order
        > to have validation and spiritual
        > authority over all other "Masters."
        >
        > Now comes Klemp and the
        > trickle-down effect of a
        > spiritual hierarchy in a new
        > way via the RESA structure,
        > a new take on the old versions
        > of typical "physical plane"
        > hierarchies. Klemp became
        > somewhat paranoid via his
        > own nefarious take over and
        > saw the need to keep people
        > under his control and on a
        > short leash.
        >
        > True, Eckankar is run some-
        > what like a corporate hierarchy
        > and it's even run like a political
        > hierarchy. But, in many ways
        > it's more strict and has more
        > incompetence and, therefore,
        > it is run more like a military
        > hierarchy.
        >
        > The physical plane Hierarchy
        > of Eckankar isn't discussed in
        > detail for outsiders, but there
        > are Flow Charts available that
        > show the main org at the ESC
        > and how these organizational
        > branches of the Satsang
        > Societies' positions relate to
        > these.
        >
        > Locally, everyone falls under
        > the RESA, but there are certain
        > positions that report to others
        > under the RESA and some have
        > a counterpart at the ESC. Also,
        > these ESC counterparts can be
        > contacted, at times, and generally
        > have the last word involving
        > a specific area of expertise/
        > responsibility which is even
        > over that of the RESA.
        >
        > And, of course, we also
        > have the initiation ranking/
        > pecking order.
        >
        > Most people don't realize
        > nor understand all of the
        > internal workings but these
        > are important as to how
        > Eckankar functions.
        >
        > Basically, it's a mixed bag
        > of worms since the only
        > ones being paid are those
        > at the Eckankar Spiritual
        > Center (ESC). Volunteers
        > need more encouragement
        > and carrot dangling.
        >
        > BTW- It is interesting to
        > see where the focus is
        > depending upon topic,
        > time slot, room size,
        > and who the facilitators
        > are.
        >
        > Love in Everyday
        > Life versus Soul Travel?
        >
        > That was a long time
        > ago and they were using
        > the more mystical hook
        > back then than they are
        > now, at times. Sometimes
        > they alternate or mix it
        > up. I think that Klemp
        > now uses a "theme"
        > approach which repeats
        > every 12 years. This time
        > it's "A Year of Consecration"
        > and it'll all be more of
        > the same. EK Seminars
        > are more of a social
        > gathering with wide-eyed
        > idol worship.
        >
        >
        > Prometheus
        >
        > femsage wrote:
        > Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects,
        > rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it's essentially the same
        > as any corporate hierarchy as extant today. They have a product to sell that's
        > more imaginary than real. The last seminar I attended was the one they did when
        > they first opened that temple outside Minneapolis. They really pushed the books,
        > and people bought lots of them. I felt that the books were way over-priced. I
        > attended a workshop on "Love In Everyday Life." About a dozen people came to it.
        > Next door was a workshop on "Soul Travel." More than 500 people attended it.
        > Pretty obvious what most people were interested in doing. Psychic Tourism is
        > alive and doing well. Great way to increase the bottom line. Eckankar is a
        > proven money-maker. That's the only reason and purpose of their organization. I
        > remember HK bragging at the time that he had an annual salary of only 25K per
        > year. Yeah, sure and he stays in 5-star hotels, with a retinue of privately
        > hired security guards, and uses a private jet. Heard that BS before.
        >
        > Lisa
        >
        > prometheus wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello All,
        > > I was going though some
        > > old papers and found some
        > > notes of former observations
        > > and evaluations of an ESA
        > > Roundtable session.
        > >
        > > It always irritated me when
        > > I saw how some H.I.s were
        > > sucked into the arrogance
        > > of the EK hierarchy.
        > >
        > > Basically, it's seen as the
        > > EK flowing from: Sugmad;
        > > into the Mahanta (Klemp);
        > > then down to the 9th
        > > initiates; 8th initiates;
        > > then to the 7th RESAs;
        > > then to the other 7ths;
        > > then to the ESA 6ths; to
        > > the initiator 6ths; to the
        > > Clerical 6ths; then to the
        > > 5ths who are clerics; to
        > > the other 5ths; then,
        > > on down.
        > >
        > > Of course those holding
        > > titles/positions such as
        > > Satsang President or a
        > > Director title or whatever
        > > would be channeled in
        > > before someone not as
        > > outwardly devout.
        > >
        > > Therefore, everyone in
        > > Eckankar must know their
        > > place within the pecking
        > > order. It's mostly an un-
        > > spoken law, but don't be
        > > mistaken as to the power
        > > of the Hierarchy. It's alive
        > > and well and does influence
        > > people and affects how
        > > they behave, speak, see,
        > > feel, think and evaluate
        > > others.
        > >
        > > Thus, the ECKankar concept
        > > of Soul=Soul (spiritual equality)
        > > is a misnomer and an imaginary
        > > pipe dream. As Below, So Above.
        > >
        > > Prometheus
        >
      • prometheus_973
        Hello gatsby jay, Welcome and thanks for the post. Read some of the archived MESSAGES look at the LINKS and the FILES to know more. Many EKists are in the dark
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 4, 2013
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          Hello gatsby jay,
          Welcome and thanks
          for the post. Read some
          of the archived MESSAGES
          look at the LINKS and
          the FILES to know more.

          Many EKists are in the
          dark when it comes
          to the actual workings
          of the org. They want
          to and choose to remain
          ignorant and naive and
          imagine their reality in
          the way children pretend.
          They have nothing else
          to believe in except the
          lie that their religion is
          best because it has an
          invisible Inner dream
          reality more real than
          the Outer physical one.

          ECKists must believe the
          initiations are authentic.
          The prestige of the initiations
          and the desire to always
          have more is the glue that
          holds Eckankar together.

          There are no "true initiations."
          Nothing is "revealed" except
          what is desired and imagined
          in one's dreams.

          Some H.I.s do know of
          the process whereby a
          computer generated list
          of names (candidates)
          comes down twice a
          year or so from the Eckankar
          Spiritual Center (ESC)
          to the RESA. The RESA
          will sometimes call certain
          H.I.s where the candidate
          is located and ask them
          questions about the person.
          If there are no objections
          and the RESA thinks the
          EKist is well grounded
          in the EK Teachings, then,
          usually the person would
          be recommended for
          promotion.

          However, for H.I.s to be
          promoted they must finish
          requirements and training
          until they are considered
          for the next step. Positions
          are involved. For all practical
          purposes the 7th initiation
          is the glass ceiling. There
          are those 7th Initiates who
          have been 7ths for 25 years
          and more. Most will never
          be 8ths or 9ths but all are
          deluded into thinking they
          will become "Masters" in
          the hereafter on the Inner
          planes.

          Prometheus





          "gatsby_jay@..." wrote:
          promtheus, i cannot thank you enough for this post. I am a newbie (in the sense
          that I am new to the study of eckankar), and I've had some difficulty getting a
          few questions answered. Your post here comes close to the spirit of my own
          inquiry.

          Since eckankar is, as you say, a organization based upon a
          corporate/political/military heirarchy, I have wondered how initiations are
          determined - like who gets them and why.

          Do the eckists inside the organization BELIEVE the initiations are authentic?

          Perhaps the truth of initiation is revealed to the higher ups?

          I am very keen to understand, and i do appreciate whatever light you can shed.

          Jay

          "prometheus_973" wrote:
          >
          > Hello Femsage,
          > Thanks for sharing your
          > thoughts and experiences.
          > [This post has been revised]
          >
          > Yes, Eckankar's pecking
          > order is not a "spiritual"
          > one, but their three leaders,
          > PT, DG, and HK have said
          > it was. Therefore EKists
          > will believe this because
          > they've put their trust in
          > people who have claimed
          > to be "Masters" but have
          > ulterior motives.
          >
          > When selling a religion the
          > conmen, and it's always
          > men, have to make "spiritual"
          > claims.
          >
          > After the founder, Twitchell,
          > established his religion
          > the wannabes, like with
          > Darwin Gross and Harold
          > Klemp, started to line up.
          > It, now, comes down to
          > inheriting the position.
          > Most religions work this
          > way. With Gross he was
          > assisted by the founder's
          > wife whom with he was
          > having an affair.
          >
          > When the founder can't
          > pass the power and title
          > on, then, it becomes a
          > political power play
          > which is always suspect.
          > Klemp's inheritance is
          > even more suspect since
          > it was tied to a corrupted
          > leader passing it on as
          > though he had the "spiritual"
          > ability/authority and
          > validation to do so.
          >
          > However, Klemp, after the
          > fact, brought the fictional
          > EK Master Rebazar into play
          > in order to give himself added
          > validation in order to silence
          > his critics. Klemp learned
          > from seeing what Twitchell
          > had done when he, too,
          > came under criticism and
          > created the story and character
          > of Rebazar Tarzs.
          >
          > PT created Rebazar in order
          > to silence his critics by assigning/
          > initiating himself to a realm
          > of All Knowingness, in order
          > to have validation and spiritual
          > authority over all other "Masters."
          >
          > Now comes Klemp and the
          > trickle-down effect of a
          > spiritual hierarchy in a new
          > way via the RESA structure,
          > a new take on the old versions
          > of typical "physical plane"
          > hierarchies. Klemp became
          > somewhat paranoid via his
          > own nefarious take over and
          > saw the need to keep people
          > under his control and on a
          > short leash.
          >
          > True, Eckankar is run some-
          > what like a corporate hierarchy
          > and it's even run like a political
          > hierarchy. But, in many ways
          > it's more strict and has more
          > incompetence and, therefore,
          > it is run more like a military
          > hierarchy.
          >
          > The physical plane Hierarchy
          > of Eckankar isn't discussed in
          > detail for outsiders, but there
          > are Flow Charts available that
          > show the main org at the ESC
          > and how these organizational
          > branches of the Satsang
          > Societies' positions relate to
          > these.
          >
          > Locally, everyone falls under
          > the RESA, but there are certain
          > positions that report to others
          > under the RESA and some have
          > a counterpart at the ESC. Also,
          > these ESC counterparts can be
          > contacted, at times, and generally
          > have the last word involving
          > a specific area of expertise/
          > responsibility which is even
          > over that of the RESA.
          >
          > And, of course, we also
          > have the initiation ranking/
          > pecking order.
          >
          > Most people don't realize
          > nor understand all of the
          > internal workings but these
          > are important as to how
          > Eckankar functions.
          >
          > Basically, it's a mixed bag
          > of worms since the only
          > ones being paid are those
          > at the Eckankar Spiritual
          > Center (ESC). Volunteers
          > need more encouragement
          > and carrot dangling.
          >
          > BTW- It is interesting to
          > see where the focus is
          > depending upon topic,
          > time slot, room size,
          > and who the facilitators
          > are.
          >
          > Love in Everyday
          > Life versus Soul Travel?
          >
          > That was a long time
          > ago and they were using
          > the more mystical hook
          > back then than they are
          > now, at times. Sometimes
          > they alternate or mix it
          > up. I think that Klemp
          > now uses a "theme"
          > approach which repeats
          > every 12 years. This time
          > it's "A Year of Consecration"
          > and it'll all be more of
          > the same. EK Seminars
          > are more of a social
          > gathering with wide-eyed
          > idol worship.
          >
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > femsage wrote:
          > Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects,
          > rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it's essentially the same
          > as any corporate hierarchy as extant today. They have a product to sell that's
          > more imaginary than real. The last seminar I attended was the one they did
          when
          > they first opened that temple outside Minneapolis. They really pushed the
          books,
          > and people bought lots of them. I felt that the books were way over-priced. I
          > attended a workshop on "Love In Everyday Life." About a dozen people came to
          it.
          > Next door was a workshop on "Soul Travel." More than 500 people attended it.
          > Pretty obvious what most people were interested in doing. Psychic Tourism is
          > alive and doing well. Great way to increase the bottom line. Eckankar is a
          > proven money-maker. That's the only reason and purpose of their organization.
          I
          > remember HK bragging at the time that he had an annual salary of only 25K per
          > year. Yeah, sure and he stays in 5-star hotels, with a retinue of privately
          > hired security guards, and uses a private jet. Heard that BS before.
          >
          > Lisa
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello All,
          > > I was going though some
          > > old papers and found some
          > > notes of former observations
          > > and evaluations of an ESA
          > > Roundtable session.
          > >
          > > It always irritated me when
          > > I saw how some H.I.s were
          > > sucked into the arrogance
          > > of the EK hierarchy.
          > >
          > > Basically, it's seen as the
          > > EK flowing from: Sugmad;
          > > into the Mahanta (Klemp);
          > > then down to the 9th
          > > initiates; 8th initiates;
          > > then to the 7th RESAs;
          > > then to the other 7ths;
          > > then to the ESA 6ths; to
          > > the initiator 6ths; to the
          > > Clerical 6ths; then to the
          > > 5ths who are clerics; to
          > > the other 5ths; then,
          > > on down.
          > >
          > > Of course those holding
          > > titles/positions such as
          > > Satsang President or a
          > > Director title or whatever
          > > would be channeled in
          > > before someone not as
          > > outwardly devout.
          > >
          > > Therefore, everyone in
          > > Eckankar must know their
          > > place within the pecking
          > > order. It's mostly an un-
          > > spoken law, but don't be
          > > mistaken as to the power
          > > of the Hierarchy. It's alive
          > > and well and does influence
          > > people and affects how
          > > they behave, speak, see,
          > > feel, think and evaluate
          > > others.
          > >
          > > Thus, the ECKankar concept
          > > of Soul=Soul (spiritual equality)
          > > is a misnomer and an imaginary
          > > pipe dream. As Below, So Above.
          > >
          > > Prometheus
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