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Re: Eckankar's Pecking Order and What It Means

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  • femsage
    Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects, rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it s essentially the same
    Message 1 of 5 , Jan 24, 2013
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      Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects, rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it's essentially the same as any corporate hierarchy as extant today. They have a product to sell that's more imaginary than real. The last seminar I attended was the one they did when they first opened that temple outside Minneapolis. They really pushed the books, and people bought lots of them. I felt that the books were way over-priced. I attended a workshop on "Love In Everyday Life." About a dozen people came to it. Next door was a workshop on "Soul Travel." More than 500 people attended it. Pretty obvious what most people were interested in doing. Psychic Tourism is alive and doing well. Great way to increase the bottom line. Eckankar is a proven money-maker. That's the only reason and purpose of their organization. I remember HK bragging at the time that he had an annual salary of only 25K per year. Yeah, sure and he stays in 5-star hotels, with a retinue of privately hired security guards, and uses a private jet. Heard that BS before.

      Lisa

      --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" wrote:
      >
      > Hello All,
      > I was going though some
      > old papers and found some
      > notes of former observations
      > and evaluations of an ESA
      > Roundtable session.
      >
      > It always irritated me when
      > I saw how some H.I.s were
      > sucked into the arrogance
      > of the EK hierarchy.
      >
      > Basically, it's seen as the
      > EK flowing from: Sugmad;
      > into the Mahanta (Klemp);
      > then down to the 9th
      > initiates; 8th initiates;
      > then to the 7th RESAs;
      > then to the other 7ths;
      > then to the ESA 6ths; to
      > the initiator 6ths; to the
      > Clerical 6ths; then to the
      > 5ths who are clerics; to
      > the other 5ths; then,
      > on down.
      >
      > Of course those holding
      > titles/positions such as
      > Satsang President or a
      > Director title or whatever
      > would be channeled in
      > before someone not as
      > outwardly devout.
      >
      > Therefore, everyone in
      > Eckankar must know their
      > place within the pecking
      > order. It's mostly an un-
      > spoken law, but don't be
      > mistaken as to the power
      > of the Hierarchy. It's alive
      > and well and does influence
      > people and affects how
      > they behave, speak, see,
      > feel, think and evaluate
      > others.
      >
      > Thus, the ECKankar concept
      > of Soul=Soul (spiritual equality)
      > is a misnomer and an imaginary
      > pipe dream. As Below, So Above.
      >
      > Prometheus
      >
    • prometheus_973
      Hello Femsage, Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. [This post has been revised] Yes, Eckankar s pecking order is not a spiritual one, but their
      Message 2 of 5 , Jan 25, 2013
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        Hello Femsage,
        Thanks for sharing your
        thoughts and experiences.
        [This post has been revised]

        Yes, Eckankar's pecking
        order is not a "spiritual"
        one, but their three leaders,
        PT, DG, and HK have said
        it was. Therefore EKists
        will believe this because
        they've put their trust in
        people who have claimed
        to be "Masters" but have
        ulterior motives.

        When selling a religion the
        conmen, and it's always
        men, have to make "spiritual"
        claims.

        After the founder, Twitchell,
        established his religion
        the wannabes, like with
        Darwin Gross and Harold
        Klemp, started to line up.
        It, now, comes down to
        inheriting the position.
        Most religions work this
        way. With Gross he was
        assisted by the founder's
        wife whom with he was
        having an affair.

        When the founder can't
        pass the power and title
        on, then, it becomes a
        political power play
        which is always suspect.
        Klemp's inheritance is
        even more suspect since
        it was tied to a corrupted
        leader passing it on as
        though he had the "spiritual"
        ability/authority and
        validation to do so.

        However, Klemp, after the
        fact, brought the fictional
        EK Master Rebazar into play
        in order to give himself added
        validation in order to silence
        his critics. Klemp learned
        from seeing what Twitchell
        had done when he, too,
        came under criticism and
        created the story and character
        of Rebazar Tarzs.

        PT created Rebazar in order
        to silence his critics by assigning/
        initiating himself to a realm
        of All Knowingness, in order
        to have validation and spiritual
        authority over all other "Masters."

        Now comes Klemp and the
        trickle-down effect of a
        spiritual hierarchy in a new
        way via the RESA structure,
        a new take on the old versions
        of typical "physical plane"
        hierarchies. Klemp became
        somewhat paranoid via his
        own nefarious take over and
        saw the need to keep people
        under his control and on a
        short leash.

        True, Eckankar is run some-
        what like a corporate hierarchy
        and it's even run like a political
        hierarchy. But, in many ways
        it's more strict and has more
        incompetence and, therefore,
        it is run more like a military
        hierarchy.

        The physical plane Hierarchy
        of Eckankar isn't discussed in
        detail for outsiders, but there
        are Flow Charts available that
        show the main org at the ESC
        and how these organizational
        branches of the Satsang
        Societies' positions relate to
        these.

        Locally, everyone falls under
        the RESA, but there are certain
        positions that report to others
        under the RESA and some have
        a counterpart at the ESC. Also,
        these ESC counterparts can be
        contacted, at times, and generally
        have the last word involving
        a specific area of expertise/
        responsibility which is even
        over that of the RESA.

        And, of course, we also
        have the initiation ranking/
        pecking order.

        Most people don't realize
        nor understand all of the
        internal workings but these
        are important as to how
        Eckankar functions.

        Basically, it's a mixed bag
        of worms since the only
        ones being paid are those
        at the Eckankar Spiritual
        Center (ESC). Volunteers
        need more encouragement
        and carrot dangling.

        BTW- It is interesting to
        see where the focus is
        depending upon topic,
        time slot, room size,
        and who the facilitators
        are.

        Love in Everyday
        Life versus Soul Travel?

        That was a long time
        ago and they were using
        the more mystical hook
        back then than they are
        now, at times. Sometimes
        they alternate or mix it
        up. I think that Klemp
        now uses a "theme"
        approach which repeats
        every 12 years. This time
        it's "A Year of Consecration"
        and it'll all be more of
        the same. EK Seminars
        are more of a social
        gathering with wide-eyed
        idol worship.


        Prometheus

        femsage wrote:
        Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects,
        rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it's essentially the same
        as any corporate hierarchy as extant today. They have a product to sell that's
        more imaginary than real. The last seminar I attended was the one they did when
        they first opened that temple outside Minneapolis. They really pushed the books,
        and people bought lots of them. I felt that the books were way over-priced. I
        attended a workshop on "Love In Everyday Life." About a dozen people came to it.
        Next door was a workshop on "Soul Travel." More than 500 people attended it.
        Pretty obvious what most people were interested in doing. Psychic Tourism is
        alive and doing well. Great way to increase the bottom line. Eckankar is a
        proven money-maker. That's the only reason and purpose of their organization. I
        remember HK bragging at the time that he had an annual salary of only 25K per
        year. Yeah, sure and he stays in 5-star hotels, with a retinue of privately
        hired security guards, and uses a private jet. Heard that BS before.

        Lisa

        prometheus wrote:
        >
        > Hello All,
        > I was going though some
        > old papers and found some
        > notes of former observations
        > and evaluations of an ESA
        > Roundtable session.
        >
        > It always irritated me when
        > I saw how some H.I.s were
        > sucked into the arrogance
        > of the EK hierarchy.
        >
        > Basically, it's seen as the
        > EK flowing from: Sugmad;
        > into the Mahanta (Klemp);
        > then down to the 9th
        > initiates; 8th initiates;
        > then to the 7th RESAs;
        > then to the other 7ths;
        > then to the ESA 6ths; to
        > the initiator 6ths; to the
        > Clerical 6ths; then to the
        > 5ths who are clerics; to
        > the other 5ths; then,
        > on down.
        >
        > Of course those holding
        > titles/positions such as
        > Satsang President or a
        > Director title or whatever
        > would be channeled in
        > before someone not as
        > outwardly devout.
        >
        > Therefore, everyone in
        > Eckankar must know their
        > place within the pecking
        > order. It's mostly an un-
        > spoken law, but don't be
        > mistaken as to the power
        > of the Hierarchy. It's alive
        > and well and does influence
        > people and affects how
        > they behave, speak, see,
        > feel, think and evaluate
        > others.
        >
        > Thus, the ECKankar concept
        > of Soul=Soul (spiritual equality)
        > is a misnomer and an imaginary
        > pipe dream. As Below, So Above.
        >
        > Prometheus
      • gatsby_jay@ymail.com
        promtheus, i cannot thank you enough for this post. I am a newbie (in the sense that I am new to the study of eckankar), and I ve had some difficulty getting
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 2, 2013
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          promtheus, i cannot thank you enough for this post. I am a newbie (in the sense that I am new to the study of eckankar), and I've had some difficulty getting a few questions answered. Your post here comes close to the spirit of my own inquiry.

          Since eckankar is, as you say, a organization based upon a corporate/political/military heirarchy, I have wondered how initiations are determined - like who gets them and why.

          Do the eckists inside the organization BELIEVE the initiations are authentic? Perhaps the truth of initiation is revealed to the higher ups?

          I am very keen to understand, and i do appreciate whatever light you can shed.

          Jay

          --- In EckankarSurvivorsAnonymous@yahoogroups.com, "prometheus_973" wrote:
          >
          > Hello Femsage,
          > Thanks for sharing your
          > thoughts and experiences.
          > [This post has been revised]
          >
          > Yes, Eckankar's pecking
          > order is not a "spiritual"
          > one, but their three leaders,
          > PT, DG, and HK have said
          > it was. Therefore EKists
          > will believe this because
          > they've put their trust in
          > people who have claimed
          > to be "Masters" but have
          > ulterior motives.
          >
          > When selling a religion the
          > conmen, and it's always
          > men, have to make "spiritual"
          > claims.
          >
          > After the founder, Twitchell,
          > established his religion
          > the wannabes, like with
          > Darwin Gross and Harold
          > Klemp, started to line up.
          > It, now, comes down to
          > inheriting the position.
          > Most religions work this
          > way. With Gross he was
          > assisted by the founder's
          > wife whom with he was
          > having an affair.
          >
          > When the founder can't
          > pass the power and title
          > on, then, it becomes a
          > political power play
          > which is always suspect.
          > Klemp's inheritance is
          > even more suspect since
          > it was tied to a corrupted
          > leader passing it on as
          > though he had the "spiritual"
          > ability/authority and
          > validation to do so.
          >
          > However, Klemp, after the
          > fact, brought the fictional
          > EK Master Rebazar into play
          > in order to give himself added
          > validation in order to silence
          > his critics. Klemp learned
          > from seeing what Twitchell
          > had done when he, too,
          > came under criticism and
          > created the story and character
          > of Rebazar Tarzs.
          >
          > PT created Rebazar in order
          > to silence his critics by assigning/
          > initiating himself to a realm
          > of All Knowingness, in order
          > to have validation and spiritual
          > authority over all other "Masters."
          >
          > Now comes Klemp and the
          > trickle-down effect of a
          > spiritual hierarchy in a new
          > way via the RESA structure,
          > a new take on the old versions
          > of typical "physical plane"
          > hierarchies. Klemp became
          > somewhat paranoid via his
          > own nefarious take over and
          > saw the need to keep people
          > under his control and on a
          > short leash.
          >
          > True, Eckankar is run some-
          > what like a corporate hierarchy
          > and it's even run like a political
          > hierarchy. But, in many ways
          > it's more strict and has more
          > incompetence and, therefore,
          > it is run more like a military
          > hierarchy.
          >
          > The physical plane Hierarchy
          > of Eckankar isn't discussed in
          > detail for outsiders, but there
          > are Flow Charts available that
          > show the main org at the ESC
          > and how these organizational
          > branches of the Satsang
          > Societies' positions relate to
          > these.
          >
          > Locally, everyone falls under
          > the RESA, but there are certain
          > positions that report to others
          > under the RESA and some have
          > a counterpart at the ESC. Also,
          > these ESC counterparts can be
          > contacted, at times, and generally
          > have the last word involving
          > a specific area of expertise/
          > responsibility which is even
          > over that of the RESA.
          >
          > And, of course, we also
          > have the initiation ranking/
          > pecking order.
          >
          > Most people don't realize
          > nor understand all of the
          > internal workings but these
          > are important as to how
          > Eckankar functions.
          >
          > Basically, it's a mixed bag
          > of worms since the only
          > ones being paid are those
          > at the Eckankar Spiritual
          > Center (ESC). Volunteers
          > need more encouragement
          > and carrot dangling.
          >
          > BTW- It is interesting to
          > see where the focus is
          > depending upon topic,
          > time slot, room size,
          > and who the facilitators
          > are.
          >
          > Love in Everyday
          > Life versus Soul Travel?
          >
          > That was a long time
          > ago and they were using
          > the more mystical hook
          > back then than they are
          > now, at times. Sometimes
          > they alternate or mix it
          > up. I think that Klemp
          > now uses a "theme"
          > approach which repeats
          > every 12 years. This time
          > it's "A Year of Consecration"
          > and it'll all be more of
          > the same. EK Seminars
          > are more of a social
          > gathering with wide-eyed
          > idol worship.
          >
          >
          > Prometheus
          >
          > femsage wrote:
          > Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects,
          > rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it's essentially the same
          > as any corporate hierarchy as extant today. They have a product to sell that's
          > more imaginary than real. The last seminar I attended was the one they did when
          > they first opened that temple outside Minneapolis. They really pushed the books,
          > and people bought lots of them. I felt that the books were way over-priced. I
          > attended a workshop on "Love In Everyday Life." About a dozen people came to it.
          > Next door was a workshop on "Soul Travel." More than 500 people attended it.
          > Pretty obvious what most people were interested in doing. Psychic Tourism is
          > alive and doing well. Great way to increase the bottom line. Eckankar is a
          > proven money-maker. That's the only reason and purpose of their organization. I
          > remember HK bragging at the time that he had an annual salary of only 25K per
          > year. Yeah, sure and he stays in 5-star hotels, with a retinue of privately
          > hired security guards, and uses a private jet. Heard that BS before.
          >
          > Lisa
          >
          > prometheus wrote:
          > >
          > > Hello All,
          > > I was going though some
          > > old papers and found some
          > > notes of former observations
          > > and evaluations of an ESA
          > > Roundtable session.
          > >
          > > It always irritated me when
          > > I saw how some H.I.s were
          > > sucked into the arrogance
          > > of the EK hierarchy.
          > >
          > > Basically, it's seen as the
          > > EK flowing from: Sugmad;
          > > into the Mahanta (Klemp);
          > > then down to the 9th
          > > initiates; 8th initiates;
          > > then to the 7th RESAs;
          > > then to the other 7ths;
          > > then to the ESA 6ths; to
          > > the initiator 6ths; to the
          > > Clerical 6ths; then to the
          > > 5ths who are clerics; to
          > > the other 5ths; then,
          > > on down.
          > >
          > > Of course those holding
          > > titles/positions such as
          > > Satsang President or a
          > > Director title or whatever
          > > would be channeled in
          > > before someone not as
          > > outwardly devout.
          > >
          > > Therefore, everyone in
          > > Eckankar must know their
          > > place within the pecking
          > > order. It's mostly an un-
          > > spoken law, but don't be
          > > mistaken as to the power
          > > of the Hierarchy. It's alive
          > > and well and does influence
          > > people and affects how
          > > they behave, speak, see,
          > > feel, think and evaluate
          > > others.
          > >
          > > Thus, the ECKankar concept
          > > of Soul=Soul (spiritual equality)
          > > is a misnomer and an imaginary
          > > pipe dream. As Below, So Above.
          > >
          > > Prometheus
          >
        • prometheus_973
          Hello gatsby jay, Welcome and thanks for the post. Read some of the archived MESSAGES look at the LINKS and the FILES to know more. Many EKists are in the dark
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 4, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Hello gatsby jay,
            Welcome and thanks
            for the post. Read some
            of the archived MESSAGES
            look at the LINKS and
            the FILES to know more.

            Many EKists are in the
            dark when it comes
            to the actual workings
            of the org. They want
            to and choose to remain
            ignorant and naive and
            imagine their reality in
            the way children pretend.
            They have nothing else
            to believe in except the
            lie that their religion is
            best because it has an
            invisible Inner dream
            reality more real than
            the Outer physical one.

            ECKists must believe the
            initiations are authentic.
            The prestige of the initiations
            and the desire to always
            have more is the glue that
            holds Eckankar together.

            There are no "true initiations."
            Nothing is "revealed" except
            what is desired and imagined
            in one's dreams.

            Some H.I.s do know of
            the process whereby a
            computer generated list
            of names (candidates)
            comes down twice a
            year or so from the Eckankar
            Spiritual Center (ESC)
            to the RESA. The RESA
            will sometimes call certain
            H.I.s where the candidate
            is located and ask them
            questions about the person.
            If there are no objections
            and the RESA thinks the
            EKist is well grounded
            in the EK Teachings, then,
            usually the person would
            be recommended for
            promotion.

            However, for H.I.s to be
            promoted they must finish
            requirements and training
            until they are considered
            for the next step. Positions
            are involved. For all practical
            purposes the 7th initiation
            is the glass ceiling. There
            are those 7th Initiates who
            have been 7ths for 25 years
            and more. Most will never
            be 8ths or 9ths but all are
            deluded into thinking they
            will become "Masters" in
            the hereafter on the Inner
            planes.

            Prometheus





            "gatsby_jay@..." wrote:
            promtheus, i cannot thank you enough for this post. I am a newbie (in the sense
            that I am new to the study of eckankar), and I've had some difficulty getting a
            few questions answered. Your post here comes close to the spirit of my own
            inquiry.

            Since eckankar is, as you say, a organization based upon a
            corporate/political/military heirarchy, I have wondered how initiations are
            determined - like who gets them and why.

            Do the eckists inside the organization BELIEVE the initiations are authentic?

            Perhaps the truth of initiation is revealed to the higher ups?

            I am very keen to understand, and i do appreciate whatever light you can shed.

            Jay

            "prometheus_973" wrote:
            >
            > Hello Femsage,
            > Thanks for sharing your
            > thoughts and experiences.
            > [This post has been revised]
            >
            > Yes, Eckankar's pecking
            > order is not a "spiritual"
            > one, but their three leaders,
            > PT, DG, and HK have said
            > it was. Therefore EKists
            > will believe this because
            > they've put their trust in
            > people who have claimed
            > to be "Masters" but have
            > ulterior motives.
            >
            > When selling a religion the
            > conmen, and it's always
            > men, have to make "spiritual"
            > claims.
            >
            > After the founder, Twitchell,
            > established his religion
            > the wannabes, like with
            > Darwin Gross and Harold
            > Klemp, started to line up.
            > It, now, comes down to
            > inheriting the position.
            > Most religions work this
            > way. With Gross he was
            > assisted by the founder's
            > wife whom with he was
            > having an affair.
            >
            > When the founder can't
            > pass the power and title
            > on, then, it becomes a
            > political power play
            > which is always suspect.
            > Klemp's inheritance is
            > even more suspect since
            > it was tied to a corrupted
            > leader passing it on as
            > though he had the "spiritual"
            > ability/authority and
            > validation to do so.
            >
            > However, Klemp, after the
            > fact, brought the fictional
            > EK Master Rebazar into play
            > in order to give himself added
            > validation in order to silence
            > his critics. Klemp learned
            > from seeing what Twitchell
            > had done when he, too,
            > came under criticism and
            > created the story and character
            > of Rebazar Tarzs.
            >
            > PT created Rebazar in order
            > to silence his critics by assigning/
            > initiating himself to a realm
            > of All Knowingness, in order
            > to have validation and spiritual
            > authority over all other "Masters."
            >
            > Now comes Klemp and the
            > trickle-down effect of a
            > spiritual hierarchy in a new
            > way via the RESA structure,
            > a new take on the old versions
            > of typical "physical plane"
            > hierarchies. Klemp became
            > somewhat paranoid via his
            > own nefarious take over and
            > saw the need to keep people
            > under his control and on a
            > short leash.
            >
            > True, Eckankar is run some-
            > what like a corporate hierarchy
            > and it's even run like a political
            > hierarchy. But, in many ways
            > it's more strict and has more
            > incompetence and, therefore,
            > it is run more like a military
            > hierarchy.
            >
            > The physical plane Hierarchy
            > of Eckankar isn't discussed in
            > detail for outsiders, but there
            > are Flow Charts available that
            > show the main org at the ESC
            > and how these organizational
            > branches of the Satsang
            > Societies' positions relate to
            > these.
            >
            > Locally, everyone falls under
            > the RESA, but there are certain
            > positions that report to others
            > under the RESA and some have
            > a counterpart at the ESC. Also,
            > these ESC counterparts can be
            > contacted, at times, and generally
            > have the last word involving
            > a specific area of expertise/
            > responsibility which is even
            > over that of the RESA.
            >
            > And, of course, we also
            > have the initiation ranking/
            > pecking order.
            >
            > Most people don't realize
            > nor understand all of the
            > internal workings but these
            > are important as to how
            > Eckankar functions.
            >
            > Basically, it's a mixed bag
            > of worms since the only
            > ones being paid are those
            > at the Eckankar Spiritual
            > Center (ESC). Volunteers
            > need more encouragement
            > and carrot dangling.
            >
            > BTW- It is interesting to
            > see where the focus is
            > depending upon topic,
            > time slot, room size,
            > and who the facilitators
            > are.
            >
            > Love in Everyday
            > Life versus Soul Travel?
            >
            > That was a long time
            > ago and they were using
            > the more mystical hook
            > back then than they are
            > now, at times. Sometimes
            > they alternate or mix it
            > up. I think that Klemp
            > now uses a "theme"
            > approach which repeats
            > every 12 years. This time
            > it's "A Year of Consecration"
            > and it'll all be more of
            > the same. EK Seminars
            > are more of a social
            > gathering with wide-eyed
            > idol worship.
            >
            >
            > Prometheus
            >
            > femsage wrote:
            > Actually, the whole pecking order with Eckankar is more about worldly affects,
            > rather than spiritual. They use different titles but it's essentially the same
            > as any corporate hierarchy as extant today. They have a product to sell that's
            > more imaginary than real. The last seminar I attended was the one they did
            when
            > they first opened that temple outside Minneapolis. They really pushed the
            books,
            > and people bought lots of them. I felt that the books were way over-priced. I
            > attended a workshop on "Love In Everyday Life." About a dozen people came to
            it.
            > Next door was a workshop on "Soul Travel." More than 500 people attended it.
            > Pretty obvious what most people were interested in doing. Psychic Tourism is
            > alive and doing well. Great way to increase the bottom line. Eckankar is a
            > proven money-maker. That's the only reason and purpose of their organization.
            I
            > remember HK bragging at the time that he had an annual salary of only 25K per
            > year. Yeah, sure and he stays in 5-star hotels, with a retinue of privately
            > hired security guards, and uses a private jet. Heard that BS before.
            >
            > Lisa
            >
            > prometheus wrote:
            > >
            > > Hello All,
            > > I was going though some
            > > old papers and found some
            > > notes of former observations
            > > and evaluations of an ESA
            > > Roundtable session.
            > >
            > > It always irritated me when
            > > I saw how some H.I.s were
            > > sucked into the arrogance
            > > of the EK hierarchy.
            > >
            > > Basically, it's seen as the
            > > EK flowing from: Sugmad;
            > > into the Mahanta (Klemp);
            > > then down to the 9th
            > > initiates; 8th initiates;
            > > then to the 7th RESAs;
            > > then to the other 7ths;
            > > then to the ESA 6ths; to
            > > the initiator 6ths; to the
            > > Clerical 6ths; then to the
            > > 5ths who are clerics; to
            > > the other 5ths; then,
            > > on down.
            > >
            > > Of course those holding
            > > titles/positions such as
            > > Satsang President or a
            > > Director title or whatever
            > > would be channeled in
            > > before someone not as
            > > outwardly devout.
            > >
            > > Therefore, everyone in
            > > Eckankar must know their
            > > place within the pecking
            > > order. It's mostly an un-
            > > spoken law, but don't be
            > > mistaken as to the power
            > > of the Hierarchy. It's alive
            > > and well and does influence
            > > people and affects how
            > > they behave, speak, see,
            > > feel, think and evaluate
            > > others.
            > >
            > > Thus, the ECKankar concept
            > > of Soul=Soul (spiritual equality)
            > > is a misnomer and an imaginary
            > > pipe dream. As Below, So Above.
            > >
            > > Prometheus
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